Sushi (alt.food.sushi) For talking sushi. (Sashimi, wasabi, miso soup, and other elements of the sushi experience are valid topics.) Sushi is a broad topic; discussions range from preparation to methods of eating to favorite kinds to good restaurants.

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Yesterday had lunch at top notch sushi restaurant in NYC (48th and Madison).
Noticed an American couple at the counter, and the gentleman appeared to be
knowledgable about sushi
ordering items for both of them. Maybe he was trying to
impress her. Who knows.
Anyway, after he orders, he opens up his chopsticks and starts doing the
vigorous rubbing thing, with all the smooth fast action of a veteran
gourmand of Japanese cuisine.
I then opened my pair of chopsticks and noted that they were not the very
cheap take-out kind, but rather a much higher quality disposable set. And in
particular I noticed that these chopsticks were well made, completely smooth
and had beveled edges.

I wonder if that gentleman had any idea that what he was doing was
unnecessary.

In Japan, nobody but nobody rubs their chopsticks. The sight of it would be
similar to seeing someone rubbing their knife and fork. Of course, should
any food establishment use chopsticks that were so poor in quality that they
needed to be rubbed as a standard policy, they would have some serious
problems.

http://www.planettokyo.com/index.cfm...vid/10/cid/17/

Truth is, leaving aside the question of whether disposable chopsticks are
wasteful (they are), I personally believe that the quality has gone down
along with the increased demand. Perhaps less, but of higher quality and
price, should be produced and consumed.

M




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Musashi wrote on Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:25:12 GMT:

M> I wonder if that gentleman had any idea that what he was
M> doing was unnecessary.

M> In Japan, nobody but nobody rubs their chopsticks. The sight
M> of it would be similar to seeing someone rubbing their knife
M> and fork. Of course, should any food establishment use
M> chopsticks that were so poor in quality that they needed to
M> be rubbed as a standard policy, they would have some serious
M> problems.

M>
http://www.planettokyo.com/index.cfm...vid/10/cid/17/

M> Truth is, leaving aside the question of whether disposable
M> chopsticks are wasteful (they are), I personally believe
M> that the quality has gone down along with the increased
M> demand. Perhaps less, but of higher quality and price,
M> should be produced and consumed.

I'm tempted to agree with you since, only two days ago, I
noticed a large splinter on the chopsticks.The restaurant has
been using the same brand (made in China) for years. I had not
been in the habit of rubbing the chopsticks but I will certainly
examine them.

James Silverton.

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There seems to be basically two kinds of disposables that I encounter -
the cheap little dinky ones that tend to be splintery and break up some
when you pull them apart, and the much nicer kind that you describe
above that are usually, but not always, found in the nicer places.
Even with the cheap kind, I'm not sure how you can manage to get
splinters in your lips, unless you rub your face with them or
something.

I prefer to bring my own chopsticks.

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> Would the restaurant not find that rather insulting or is it
> acceptable in Japan? It's been hundreds of years since
> westerners made a habit of bringing their own cutlery :-)
>
>
> James Silverton.









I've never had a bad reaction - just the opposite - and we're starting
the trend!



ww



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In article >, Musashi
> wrote:

> Anyway, after he orders, he opens up his chopsticks and starts doing the
> vigorous rubbing thing, with all the smooth fast action of a veteran
> gourmand of Japanese cuisine.


Some do this as a reflex activity it seems. Not only do they do it
with good chopsticks, to the irritation of my highbrow sensibilities,
but if their intent is to rid themselves of loose wood trimmings, this
process seems pretty ineffective.

Having had my lip impaled once long ago, I always inspect them for
"gotchas" and carefully pick (or snap!) them off. I do this on all of
them, but the nicer ones don't need much/any tailoring.

> Truth is, leaving aside the question of whether disposable chopsticks are
> wasteful (they are), I personally believe that the quality has gone down
> along with the increased demand. Perhaps less, but of higher quality and
> price, should be produced and consumed.


We need more, so producing less isn't much of a solution. The shops
want them as inexpensive as possible, so making higher quality (and
higher expense) chopsticks isn't much of a solution for them either.

I always thought it kind of pretentious when people bring in their own
lacquer chopsticks in the their little case and use them. But I do
respect their lack of waste. In a few places, but not for years, I use
to see regular customers had inexpensive lacquer (or faux lacquer)
chopsticks in a case behind the counter with their name taped on it.
Like the occasional joint that has wooden sake-boxes. We still have
hashi somewhere that the chef insisted that he keep for us. Which is
surprising, since he only has 15 or 20 pairs of these. He likes us.
Haven't seen him but twice since we moved to north county some 8 years
ago.

One easy way to save some money and trees is to ASK somebody before
putting chopsticks and napkins in to-go orders. When I get home I
through these, and any plastic utensils away every single time.

--
"A Dictionary of Japanese Food, Ingredients & Culture" by Richard Hosking
(Tuttle, '97). All the hints one might need for exploring Japanese food.

"The Sake Handbook" by John Gaunter (Tuttle, '02). An excellent intro and
reference to sake.
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> There seems to be basically two kinds of disposables that I encounter -
> the cheap little dinky ones that tend to be splintery and break up some
> when you pull them apart, and the much nicer kind that you describe
> above that are usually, but not always, found in the nicer places.
> Even with the cheap kind, I'm not sure how you can manage to get
> splinters in your lips, unless you rub your face with them or
> something.
>
> I prefer to bring my own chopsticks.
>


I find 3 kinds in use.
The cheapest ones, that come with take-out sushi at the supermarket. Square
cut and while most seem ok, once in a
while you will run into ones that don't split properly. These are the ones
where I think the quality has gone down.
Another kind, which is more expensive is made from bamboo and only the top
is squared where it connects to the other
chopstick.The chopsticks themself are round(ish) and taper at the eating
end.
The fancy ones, which are seen in top notch Japanese resuarants are square,
but larger than the cheap ones, smooth, beveled
on the edgesand slightly tapered.
You can't go wrong bringing your own, and may I suggest a proper Ohashi-Bako
to carry them in.
In the old days some Katana sheaths carried a set of chopsticks. Although a
shuriken (throwing knife) was probably more
common.

M


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"Gerry" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >, Musashi
> > wrote:
>
> > Anyway, after he orders, he opens up his chopsticks and starts doing the
> > vigorous rubbing thing, with all the smooth fast action of a veteran
> > gourmand of Japanese cuisine.

>
> Some do this as a reflex activity it seems. Not only do they do it
> with good chopsticks, to the irritation of my highbrow sensibilities,
> but if their intent is to rid themselves of loose wood trimmings, this
> process seems pretty ineffective.
>
> Having had my lip impaled once long ago, I always inspect them for
> "gotchas" and carefully pick (or snap!) them off. I do this on all of
> them, but the nicer ones don't need much/any tailoring.
>


I have been eating with ohashi for probably 45-46 years and I have never
caught a splinter
from disposables in my mouth or my hand. Although as I mentioned, I have run
into ones which
were obviously poorly made and didn't split properly.

> > Truth is, leaving aside the question of whether disposable chopsticks

are
> > wasteful (they are), I personally believe that the quality has gone down
> > along with the increased demand. Perhaps less, but of higher quality and
> > price, should be produced and consumed.

>
> We need more, so producing less isn't much of a solution. The shops
> want them as inexpensive as possible, so making higher quality (and
> higher expense) chopsticks isn't much of a solution for them either.
>


My comment was based on werewolf's BYOC crusade.

> I always thought it kind of pretentious when people bring in their own
> lacquer chopsticks in the their little case and use them. But I do
> respect their lack of waste. In a few places, but not for years, I use
> to see regular customers had inexpensive lacquer (or faux lacquer)
> chopsticks in a case behind the counter with their name taped on it.
> Like the occasional joint that has wooden sake-boxes. We still have
> hashi somewhere that the chef insisted that he keep for us. Which is
> surprising, since he only has 15 or 20 pairs of these. He likes us.
> Haven't seen him but twice since we moved to north county some 8 years
> ago.
>


Pretentious, maybe. Unusual, definitely. If I brought my own Ohashi my
biggest fear would
be that I'd put them down after a meal and the waitess would take everything
away.

> One easy way to save some money and trees is to ASK somebody before
> putting chopsticks and napkins in to-go orders. When I get home I
> through these, and any plastic utensils away every single time.
>


It has already been several years in Japan that Bento take out stores,
Konbini (convenience stores) have
stopped automatically throwing in the disposable hashi, They now ask the
customer if he wants them.
This I think is the first step that can be implemented here in the US.

M





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In article >, James
Silverton wrote:

> w> I prefer to bring my own chopsticks.
>
> Would the restaurant not find that rather insulting or is it
> acceptable in Japan? It's been hundreds of years since
> westerners made a habit of bringing their own cutlery :-)


Curious, but just the opposite it seems. It makes it look like you're a
real "enthusiast", I think.

--
"A Dictionary of Japanese Food, Ingredients & Culture" by Richard Hosking
(Tuttle, '97). All the hints one might need for exploring Japanese food.

"The Sake Handbook" by John Gaunter (Tuttle, '02). An excellent intro and
reference to sake.
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Ohashi-Bako?

My internet search turned up lots of Japanese art (I really like the
woodblock prints). Does someone have a good website to see and buy one of
these chopstick carriers?

Thanks!

"Musashi" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> You can't go wrong bringing your own, and may I suggest a proper
> Ohashi-Bako
> to carry them in.
>
> M
>
>





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Sonoran Desert dweller wrote:
> Ohashi-Bako?
>
> My internet search turned up lots of Japanese art (I really like the
> woodblock prints). Does someone have a good website to see and buy one of
> these chopstick carriers?
>




I've looked around for a good compact chopstick carrier, but never
found one. The ones I've seen are too short and fat.



ww.

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Pretentious, maybe. Unusual, definitely. If I brought my own Ohashi my
biggest fear would
be that I'd put them down after a meal and the waitess would take
everything
away.


___________


Yeah, ya gotta watch em. The last waitress said she wanted them to put
in her hair!

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I once saw on EBay a neat Mongolian kit consisting of a knife and
chopsticks in a belt sheath.

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Tibetan - and still the

http://search.ebay.com/tibetan-chops...fkrZ1QQfromZR8



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Interesting thread.

I was once a regular customer at a sushi place in Las Vegas. Got to know
the chef and owner quite well. One night, the owner made an elaborate
display out of presenting me with my own pair of lacquered chopsticks.
She especially insisted that I bring them at future visits. And she was
insulted when I forgot.

To be honest, the darn things were too pretty to use, and too slick to
grasp anything. I preferred the rough bamboo throw-aways. I've got the
fancy ones still, but never use them. And friends have given me the
slick plastic ones--likewise never used.

I use the cheap ones at home for quite a few things. I buy them at the
Asian market for something like $0.02 for a hundred of them. Well, not
quite that cheap, but darn close. I find them great for frying. You can
grasp some things in the pan better with chopsticks than with a fork or
spatula. Great for turning donuts in the deep fryer (the hole helps!).

And chopsticks have contributed so much to our TV culture! Alton Brown
used chopsticks on his "Man Food" episode as the sticks for corn dogs.
And who can forget the episode of "Friends" when they tied a ton of them
together to make a stick long enough to poke "ugly naked guy" from
across the street when they thought he was dead! LOL!

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Musashi wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>There seems to be basically two kinds of disposables that I encounter -
>>the cheap little dinky ones that tend to be splintery and break up some
>>when you pull them apart, and the much nicer kind that you describe
>>above that are usually, but not always, found in the nicer places.
>>Even with the cheap kind, I'm not sure how you can manage to get
>>splinters in your lips, unless you rub your face with them or
>>something.
>>
>>I prefer to bring my own chopsticks.
>>

>
>
> I find 3 kinds in use.
> The cheapest ones, that come with take-out sushi at the supermarket. Square
> cut and while most seem ok, once in a
> while you will run into ones that don't split properly. These are the ones
> where I think the quality has gone down.
> Another kind, which is more expensive is made from bamboo and only the top
> is squared where it connects to the other
> chopstick.The chopsticks themself are round(ish) and taper at the eating
> end.
> The fancy ones, which are seen in top notch Japanese resuarants are square,
> but larger than the cheap ones, smooth, beveled
> on the edgesand slightly tapered.
> You can't go wrong bringing your own, and may I suggest a proper Ohashi-Bako
> to carry them in.

Yesterday, we had lunch at the Ichibon (Bangor, Maine) and while
checking out, noticed that they had a 'basket' sitting on it's side on a
shelf. It contained many small narrow boxes with numbers on the end. I
noticed a '75' on one of the boxes to give you an idea of how many were
there. Having just read this thread, I asked the checkout girl what they
were and, sure enough, they were Ohashi-bako's for their regular
clients. She said that many people prefer this and I mentioned about the
disposable chopsticks. She said she had no problem with folks bringing
in their own Ohashi.

BTW, we shared some super white tuna sashimi (5.95) and their lunch
plate which came with a bit of green salad, miso soup, and the main
plate with salmon sashimi, maguro, sake, kanikama and probably hamachi
nigiri with 4 pieces of salmon tempura maki (9.95.) Very good and very
reasonable, IMHO.

When we walked through the door, the scent of sesame oil almost lifted
me off my feet. As it turned out, we also ordered two cold ika salad to
go and found out when we got home that was where the sesame oil was
used. Excellent 'salad' was almost all squid with some ginger in a
dressing with ponzu and a little something sweet.

> In the old days some Katana sheaths carried a set of chopsticks. Although a
> shuriken (throwing knife) was probably more
> common.
>
> M
>
>


--
- Peace,George

...... and if you want to know why we're in the mess we're in
READ "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins
ISBN 0-452-28708-1

N 37°49'37.31
W 122°25'24.04
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When using chopsticks, is it considered very bad manners if you
accidentally put the right hand chopstick in your left hand, and vice
versa?



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M -

Do they still try to make left-handed kids right-handed in Japanese
schools?

By the way, SCISSORS and some other things are a REAL problem for
lefties.

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> wrote in message
ups.com...
> M -
>
> Do they still try to make left-handed kids right-handed in Japanese
> schools?
>


No they don't. At least not for a couple hundred years
I think.

> By the way, SCISSORS and some other things are a REAL problem for
> lefties.
>


Yes, I can imagine that it would pose a problem.
Just out of curosity, are stringed instruments strung
in reverse for left handed musicians?


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It seems likely that left handed stringed instruments are a 20th century
phenomenon. As you said, past prejudices forced everyone to convert to
right handedness. There are left handed stringed instruments today as a
quick search will indicate.

Musashi wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>M -
>>
>>Do they still try to make left-handed kids right-handed in Japanese
>>schools?
>>

>
>
> No they don't. At least not for a couple hundred years
> I think.
>
>
>>By the way, SCISSORS and some other things are a REAL problem for
>>lefties.
>>

>
>
> Yes, I can imagine that it would pose a problem.
> Just out of curosity, are stringed instruments strung
> in reverse for left handed musicians?
>
>


--
- George
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From a t-shirt: "the right side of the brain controls the left side of
the body, therefore left handers are the only people in their RIGHT MINDS!"

wrote:
> When using chopsticks, is it considered very bad manners if you
> accidentally put the right hand chopstick in your left hand, and vice
> versa?
>


--
- George


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James Silverton wrote:


> I
> don't recall seeing a person using a pen to write Arabic or
> Hebrew but I'd think lefties might have an advantage :-)



I've always wondered whether there was a preponderance of lef-handed people
in that part of the world in Old Testament days.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


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Musashi wrote:

> Just out of curosity, are stringed instruments strung
> in reverse for left handed musicians?



Generally no. Left-handed musicians usually play like right-handed ones do.
And that's because both hands need to work playing stringed instruments, and
because its harder to be taught if your teacher is right-handed..

You occasionally see a guitarist who plays a guitar strung backward, and one
famous blues guitarist even played a regularly-strung guitar left-handed
(weird, but she did it). Restringing a guitar backwards isn't a great idea,
though, because it's very hard to keep in tune (they are often asymmetrical
on the inside), and because the dynamics are different. It's much better to
buy a guitar built to be left-handed.

Left-handed five-string banjos are rare, but they exist (there's no way to
string one backwards because they aren't symmetrical). I've never seen or
heard of a left-handed violin, but I'm sure somebody must have made them
occasionally (they too are asymettrical on the inside). They are certainly
very rare though. No orchestra would hire someone playing a violin, viola,
cello, or doublebass backward.

And finally, as far as I know, there's no such thing as a left-handed piano.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup


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In article >,
Dan Logcher > wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>> That's right, Dan. Even tho I'm not left-handed, I worry about stuff
>> like that. Where do left handed people go to buy their chopsticks,
>> anyway? Their screwdrivers? Their boxing mitts?

>
>The Leftorium?


Stupid Flanders!



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I had a
mental picture of wwerewolff skillfully picking up a pea with
one chopstick in each hand!...


________________

Duh...what was I thinking, anyway? I think maybe I meant the chopstick
on the left side vs. the... uh...oh, never mind.

Anyway, I think that we can all agree that left handedness is a sign of
daemonic posession, and people who perversely insist upon the practice
need to be put in sackcloth and locked up in dungeons.




ww


PS Can lefties learn to operate normal human scissors?

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Ken Blake wrote:
> Dan Logcher wrote:
>
>
>>James Silverton wrote:
>>
>>
wrote on 14 Jun 2006 08:45:02 -0700:
>>>
>>>w> Do they still try to make left-handed kids right-handed in
>>>w> Japanese schools?
>>>w> By the way, SCISSORS and some other things are a REAL w> problem
>>>for lefties. .
>>>
>>>True enough but you *can* buy lefty scissors fairly easily!

>>
>>Right, but you never have them when you need them. Walk into an
>>office or someone else's house and what are the chances they will
>>have the lefties.

>
>
>
> True, but people, left-handed or not, don't usually need to use scissors in
> other peoples home. I don't have any left-handed scissors here, but I don't
> remember any visitor ever asking me to use my scissors, left- or
> right-handed.


No true. If you bring gifts or food that needs to be prepared onsite you
might have to open packaging that works best with scissors. The way they
shrink wrap foods now, you have to cut off the top of the plastic if they
don't provide a zip-tear strip.

Kids toys are notoriously hard to unpackage without scissors or wire cutters.

> I'm a volunteer naturalist at a local park, and one of our activities that
> we do with children involves their using scissors. we always* have both
> right-handed and left-handed scissors available. As far as I know, all
> schools do too these days.


That's because you expect to have lefties.. I don't think we have a pair of
lefty scissors in our house. Other than the handle shaping, do they swap the
blades for lefty scissors?

--
Dan
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In article >, Ken Blake
> wrote:

> True, but people, left-handed or not, don't usually need to use scissors in
> other peoples home. I don't have any left-handed scissors here, but I don't
> remember any visitor ever asking me to use my scissors, left- or
> right-handed.


I find it fascinating that in many Korean restaurants, but particularly
BBQ and nem myung restaurants (a very sticky noodle) always have
scissors on the table. Mostly these have been used by servers, who
usually leave them at the table. But I've seen the clientele use them.
Big ol' honking shears too. It seems as important as a serving spoon
in some places.

--
"A Dictionary of Japanese Food, Ingredients & Culture" by Richard Hosking
(Tuttle, '97). All the hints one might need for exploring Japanese food.

"The Sake Handbook" by John Gaunter (Tuttle, '02). An excellent intro and
reference to sake.
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Dan Logcher wrote:

> Ken Blake wrote:
>> Dan Logcher wrote:
>>
>>
>>> James Silverton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> wrote on 14 Jun 2006 08:45:02 -0700:
>>>>
>>>> w> Do they still try to make left-handed kids right-handed in
>>>> w> Japanese schools?
>>>> w> By the way, SCISSORS and some other things are a REAL w> problem
>>>> for lefties. .
>>>>
>>>> True enough but you *can* buy lefty scissors fairly easily!
>>>
>>> Right, but you never have them when you need them. Walk into an
>>> office or someone else's house and what are the chances they will
>>> have the lefties.

>>
>>
>>
>> True, but people, left-handed or not, don't usually need to use
>> scissors in other peoples home. I don't have any left-handed
>> scissors here, but I don't remember any visitor ever asking me to
>> use my scissors, left- or right-handed.

>
> No true. If you bring gifts or food that needs to be prepared onsite
> you might have to open packaging that works best with scissors. The
> way they shrink wrap foods now, you have to cut off the top of the
> plastic if they don't provide a zip-tear strip.



Yes, but I woud expect the host to do the cutting, not the visitor.



>
> Kids toys are notoriously hard to unpackage without scissors or wire
> cutters.
>> I'm a volunteer naturalist at a local park, and one of our
>> activities that we do with children involves their using scissors.
>> we always* have both right-handed and left-handed scissors
>> available. As far as I know, all schools do too these days.

>
> That's because you expect to have lefties.. I don't think we have a
> pair of lefty scissors in our house.



We don't either. But we've never needed them.


> Other than the handle shaping,
> do they swap the blades for lefty scissors?



I think so, but I can't remember looking very carefully.


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