Some one very recently mentioned the Japanese phrase "shitzurei
shimasu" (pardon). I have been taking a local Japanese language for
beginners course and this brings up my great dilemma. Is the last
letter 'u' not pronounced? My sensei says 'shimas', leaving off the
'u', and yet it is written. Also with a phrase like "desu ka?", she
says 'des ka'. Is it like French where you just drop the end of a
word? A silent 'u'? Please clarify (Musashi?), Thank you.

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"Lori Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Some one very recently mentioned the Japanese phrase "shitzurei
> shimasu" (pardon). I have been taking a local Japanese language for
> beginners course and this brings up my great dilemma. Is the last
> letter 'u' not pronounced? My sensei says 'shimas', leaving off the
> 'u', and yet it is written. Also with a phrase like "desu ka?", she
> says 'des ka'. Is it like French where you just drop the end of a
> word? A silent 'u'? Please clarify (Musashi?), Thank you.
>

Lori,
I am sure you already know or have learned that the Japanese language is
essentially based on the vowels
a-i-u-e-o and the same thing but with consanants in front of them.
So the correct pronunciation and of course the only way to write it is with
the full vowel sound at the end.
Hower, in actual practice, particularly when spoken quickly, it does seem to
end with the consanant.

Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
meaning

shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
pardon me
itadakimasu itadakimas
(what is said before eating)
hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
sou desu sou des
yes that's right
sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka? what
is that fish?

I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But something that
does happen in actual use
and nobody pays much attention to it.
M

"Musashi" > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
> meaning
>
> shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
> pardon me
> itadakimasu itadakimas
> (what is said before eating)
> hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
> is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
> sou desu sou des
> yes that's right
> sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka?
> what is that fish?
>
> I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But something
> that does happen in actual use
> and nobody pays much attention to it.
>
Takezo-san,

I have always used 'sumimasen' for pardon me. Please enlighten me.

Q. "Haka sakana des' ka?"
A. "Ieh. Shiromi des'!"

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

> wrote in message
...
> "Musashi" > wrote:
> > [ . . . ]
> > Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
> > meaning
> >
> > shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
> > pardon me
> > itadakimasu itadakimas
> > (what is said before eating)
> > hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
> > is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
> > sou desu sou des
> > yes that's right
> > sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka?
> > what is that fish?
> >
> > I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But something
> > that does happen in actual use
> > and nobody pays much attention to it.
> >
> Takezo-san,
>
> I have always used 'sumimasen' for pardon me. Please enlighten me.
>
> Q. "Haka sakana des' ka?"
> A. "Ieh. Shiromi des'!"
>

Shitsurei shimasu ...means "pardon me".
Sumimasen...actually means "I'm sorry", but can be used
to mean "excuse me".

Shitsurei Shimasu is more polite than Sumimasen when used
to mean "pardon me".

M

"Musashi" > wrote in message
m...
>
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Musashi" > wrote:
> > > [ . . . ]
> > > Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
> > > meaning
> > >
> > > shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
> > > pardon me
> > > itadakimasu itadakimas
> > > (what is said before eating)
> > > hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
> > > is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
> > > sou desu sou des
> > > yes that's right
> > > sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka?
> > > what is that fish?
> > >
> > > I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But something
> > > that does happen in actual use
> > > and nobody pays much attention to it.
> > >
> > Takezo-san,
> >
> > I have always used 'sumimasen' for pardon me. Please enlighten me.
> >
> > Q. "Haka sakana des' ka?"
> > A. "Ieh. Shiromi des'!"
> >
>
> Shitsurei shimasu ...means "pardon me".

I was taught "pardon my rudeness."

> Sumimasen...actually means "I'm sorry", but can be used
> to mean "excuse me".
>
> Shitsurei Shimasu is more polite than Sumimasen when used
> to mean "pardon me".

Let's not forget "gomen nesai" . . . useful when trying to get through a
crowd of people.

"D. Lutjen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Musashi" > wrote in message
> m...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > "Musashi" > wrote:
> > > > [ . . . ]
> > > > Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
> > > > meaning
> > > >
> > > > shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
> > > > pardon me
> > > > itadakimasu itadakimas
> > > > (what is said before eating)
> > > > hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
> > > > is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
> > > > sou desu sou des
> > > > yes that's right
> > > > sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka?
> > > > what is that fish?
> > > >
> > > > I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But
something
> > > > that does happen in actual use
> > > > and nobody pays much attention to it.
> > > >
> > > Takezo-san,
> > >
> > > I have always used 'sumimasen' for pardon me. Please enlighten me.
> > >
> > > Q. "Haka sakana des' ka?"
> > > A. "Ieh. Shiromi des'!"
> > >
> >
> > Shitsurei shimasu ...means "pardon me".
>
> I was taught "pardon my rudeness."

That is fairly close to the literal translation...I shall be rude.
In effect..pardon my rudeness.

> > Sumimasen...actually means "I'm sorry", but can be used
> > to mean "excuse me".
> >
> > Shitsurei Shimasu is more polite than Sumimasen when used
> > to mean "pardon me".
>
> Let's not forget "gomen nesai" . . . useful when trying to get through a
> crowd of people.
>

Yes, gomen nasai.
The most casual form of apology.
Moushiwake arimasen being the most formal and hardly ever spoken without a
massive bow.
Definitely not for bumping into peope on a crowded street.

"Musashi" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Musashi" > wrote:
> > > [ . . . ]
> > > Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
> > > meaning
> > >
> > > shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
> > > pardon me
> > > itadakimasu itadakimas
> > > (what is said before eating)
> > > hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
> > > is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
> > > sou desu sou des
> > > yes that's right
> > > sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka?
> > > what is that fish?
> > >
> > > I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But
> > > something that does happen in actual use
> > > and nobody pays much attention to it.
> > >
> > Takezo-san,
> >
> > I have always used 'sumimasen' for pardon me. Please enlighten me.
> >
> > Q. "Haka sakana des' ka?"
> > A. "Ieh. Shiromi des'!"
> >
>
> Shitsurei shimasu ...means "pardon me".
> Sumimasen...actually means "I'm sorry", but can be used
> to mean "excuse me".
>
> Shitsurei Shimasu is more polite than Sumimasen when used
> to mean "pardon me".
>
Thank you, tomodachi-o.

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

Most of the time when I have heard this in general, the "u" is silent or not
pronounced.But I have heard it used when someone wants to show how polite
they are, And
women will use the "u" more then men in their everyday vocabulary.. At least
thats how I remember it.
Malcom

On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:03:51 GMT, "Musashi" >
wrote:

>
>"Lori Lee" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Some one very recently mentioned the Japanese phrase "shitzurei
>> shimasu" (pardon). I have been taking a local Japanese language for
>> beginners course and this brings up my great dilemma. Is the last
>> letter 'u' not pronounced? My sensei says 'shimas', leaving off the
>> 'u', and yet it is written. Also with a phrase like "desu ka?", she
>> says 'des ka'. Is it like French where you just drop the end of a
>> word? A silent 'u'? Please clarify (Musashi?), Thank you.
>>
>
>Lori,
>I am sure you already know or have learned that the Japanese language is
>essentially based on the vowels
>a-i-u-e-o and the same thing but with consanants in front of them.
>So the correct pronunciation and of course the only way to write it is with
>the full vowel sound at the end.
>Hower, in actual practice, particularly when spoken quickly, it does seem to
>end with the consanant.
>
>Correct/Written how it comes out/how it sounds
>meaning
>
>shitsurei shimasu shitsurei shimas
>pardon me
>itadakimasu itadakimas
>(what is said before eating)
>hamachi desu ka? hamachi des ka?
>is it hamachi (yellowtail)?
>sou desu sou des
>yes that's right
>sono sakana wa nani desu ka? sono sakana wa nan des ka? what
>is that fish?
>
>I don't think it is a rule, as in the example of French. But something that
>does happen in actual use
>and nobody pays much attention to it.
>M
>
>
This is very helpful, as well as all the other phrases mentioned.
Thanks to all. Lori
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Yes that's true, you will hear women pronounce the u more than men.

Women also use honorific form for food items, like o-gohan I think.

"Genki" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Yes that's true, you will hear women pronounce the u more than men.
>
> Women also use honorific form for food items, like o-gohan I think.
>

Older women tend to use the "O" honorific more than men. People in Kyoto use
it more than anywhere esle in Japan.
That said..."O-gohan" isn't said.
Ohiru gohan, yes.
Omiso shiru, yes.
Otsuke mono, yes.
Osashimi, yes.
M

"Genki" > wrote:
> Yes that's true, you will hear women pronounce the u more than men.

Yes. I've noticed that most Japanese women will say watakushi, while men
will say watak'shi, wa'shi or boku.
>
> Women also use honorific form for food items, like o-gohan I think.

Well, I call my friend Tomodachi-o, and I do say, "o-cha onagaishimas'!"

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !

In my experience the breath comes out but no sound is made for ending
vowels.

The preceding s is extended with no more "s" sound but with a short bit
of "air" "left over" from its pronunciation.