I completely agree, Dan. We love White Tuna, as our fav sushi bar
calls it. That delicate flavor is just wonderful. I looked into
ordering it, but the shipping from Ca to the east coast was as much as
the fish. It is the favorite of all of the fish on the sashimi platter
we order.
I hope it's never banned in Japan or anywhere.
Nan

James Silverton wrote:

> Wilson wrote on Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:26:48 -0400:
>
>> sometime in the recent past James Silverton posted this:
>>
>>> Hello All!
>>>
>>> I know I cannot eat escolar without dire consequences but I wonder
>>> if the Japanese government still bans its sale? I know
>>> people in the US who insist on eating it but I ate it *once* in the
>>> form of two pieces 2x1x0.5 inches and for about an
>>> hour I thought it was wonderful :-)
>>>
>>> When I was a child during WWII a canned fish from South
>>> Africa called snoek was sold for a little while. I believe
>>> snoek is an other name for escolar and I can understand why
>>> it was no great success.
>>>
>> I noticed yesterday that we were again entering into the
>> discussion of Escolar and that in itself isn't a bad thing.
>> But, then this morning I come to check emails and after months
>> of quiet, there are now 34 emails responding. Wow I thought
>> for about half a moment until I looked at the responders who
>> rarely comment in a.f.s and had a thought.
>
>
>> Sure enough, the original post was cross-posted to
>> rec.food.cooking, where 467 pieces were posted since
>> yesterday. Enough said. I try not to cross-post nor to
>> perpetuate a thread which is cross-posted. I do not filter out
>> posters, like you do James. If you don't like certain posters,
>> you probably shouldn't invite them home to play.
>
>
> The size of the response was a little surprising but interesting. Many
> people claim, and I believe practically all of them, that they can eat
> escolar with impunity. However, I would think that the rules of a
> fish-eating country like Japan do indicate that a large number of people
> are ill-advised to eat the stuff.
> I was just interested in whether the Japanese had changed their minds
> and, as far as I can tell, they have not.

Myabe they just don't have the right gene for eating it. They may be a
fish eating country, but they are smaller and much less diverse in genetic make-up.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-25 06:26:48 -0700, Wilson said:

> Sure enough, the original post was cross-posted to rec.food.cooking,
> where 467 pieces were posted since yesterday. Enough said. I try not to
> cross-post nor to perpetuate a thread which is cross-posted. I do not
> filter out posters, like you do James. If you don't like certain
> posters, you probably shouldn't invite them home to play.

I've been reading at rfc in recent weeks and it has taken me about 50%
of my time over there to set up effective buffering/kill-filing of all
the trolls, racists, goofballs and jihadists. I'm guessing a
considerable majority of topics, both on and off, quickly disintegrate
into name calling between long-time foes. It's really quite lame.

On the other hand there are some people with some notable knowledge of
one niche cuisine or cooking implement.

> OT: I like Escolar and suffer nothing from eating it and my wife
> likewise enjoys it without consequence. That is to the extent it is
> ever properly identified, which usually it isn't. I go by looks, taste
> & texture and might be wrong after that. Super White Tuna is the only
> way I've ever seen it on the menu board.

There! Now that's the measured response I expect in our micro-enclave!
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

sometime in the recent past Dan Logcher posted this:
> James Silverton wrote:
>
>> Wilson wrote on Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:26:48 -0400:
>>
>>> sometime in the recent past James Silverton posted this:
>>>
>>>> Hello All!
>>>>
>>>> I know I cannot eat escolar without dire consequences but I wonder
>>>> if the Japanese government still bans its sale? I know
>>>> people in the US who insist on eating it but I ate it *once* in the
>>>> form of two pieces 2x1x0.5 inches and for about an
>>>> hour I thought it was wonderful :-)
>>>>
>>>> When I was a child during WWII a canned fish from South
>>>> Africa called snoek was sold for a little while. I believe
>>>> snoek is an other name for escolar and I can understand why
>>>> it was no great success.
>>>>
>>> I noticed yesterday that we were again entering into the
>>> discussion of Escolar and that in itself isn't a bad thing.
>>> But, then this morning I come to check emails and after months
>>> of quiet, there are now 34 emails responding. Wow I thought
>>> for about half a moment until I looked at the responders who
>>> rarely comment in a.f.s and had a thought.
>>
>>
>>> Sure enough, the original post was cross-posted to
>>> rec.food.cooking, where 467 pieces were posted since
>>> yesterday. Enough said. I try not to cross-post nor to
>>> perpetuate a thread which is cross-posted. I do not filter out
>>> posters, like you do James. If you don't like certain posters,
>>> you probably shouldn't invite them home to play.
>>
>>
>> The size of the response was a little surprising but interesting. Many
>> people claim, and I believe practically all of them, that they can eat
>> escolar with impunity. However, I would think that the rules of a
>> fish-eating country like Japan do indicate that a large number of
>> people are ill-advised to eat the stuff.
>> I was just interested in whether the Japanese had changed their minds
>> and, as far as I can tell, they have not.
>
> Myabe they just don't have the right gene for eating it. They may be a
> fish eating country, but they are smaller and much less diverse in
> genetic make-up.
>
Good point, Dan. As I think about it, there are many gene-based issues that
are exclusive to various races and perhaps Escolar metabolizing is another
one. Glad I'm pretty much a *mutt* when it comes to genetics ;-)

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:50:32 -0700, Gerry wrote:

> It's just me, James, and the the laws of countries like Japan that
> don't consider it a "food product". On the other hand It's people like
> you that call others "pussy" and "butt****er" when we won't eat the
> stuff you like. That sounds like a tedious dinner party, ne?

I'm calling you a butt****er because you haven't tried it, yet you
take an adamant stand against eating it - telling us you know what's
right and implying that everybody will get sick.

Meanwhile, there are about 5 of us who *have* tried it and posted
that there are no ill effects. The rest of you haven't.
SilverSpoon is the only one who claims he experienced any ill
effects, which are probably all psychosomatic (from anticipating
getting sick). He is in the minority. And you are just another
psychotic Chicken Little.

-sw

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:59:15 -0700, Gerry wrote:

> On 2010-04-24 23:00:22 -0700, Sqwertz said:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:12:43 -0700, Gerry wrote:
>>
>>> It's also called "the shits", "the trots", and "the Hershey squirts".
>>> I think that last one is vulgar frankly, but in the interest of
>>> completeness...
>>
>> Maybe after you try it, then you'll be equipped to remark on the
>> fish and it's effects. Until then you're just making more of an
>> ignorant, pompous ass of yourself.
>
> If the chef won't eat it, I won't eat it. That's information I can use.

There you go again.

> "A guy named Sqwertz says he didn't get the shits when he ate it."
> That's not what I call a useful tip.

Hey, butt****er. Count the number of people here who have posted
that they did not have any ill effects after eating it. And then
count the number of people who did try it and have had ill effects.

It's not just me. My experience is backed up by 4 other people.

Now, if you're done making an ass out of yourself, kindly **** off.
That is, unless you're going to claim that they are all my sock
puppets.

Go ahead - you can do it!

-sw

On 2010-04-25 08:43:33 -0700, Sqwertz said:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 00:50:32 -0700, Gerry wrote:
>
>> It's just me, James, and the the laws of countries like Japan that
>> don't consider it a "food product". On the other hand It's people like
>> you that call others "pussy" and "butt****er" when we won't eat the
>> stuff you like. That sounds like a tedious dinner party, ne?
>
> I'm calling you a butt****er because you haven't tried it, yet you
> take an adamant stand against eating it - telling us you know what's
> right...

You're a liar. I know what's right for me. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not
gonna defer my own judgement to a liar who also calls people pussy and
butt****er when they disagree.

> ...and implying that everybody will get sick.

Another lie. I neither said nor implied that.

> Meanwhile, there are about 5 of us who *have* tried it and posted
> that there are no ill effects.

Your anecdotal information is as good as any; I'll go with the
viewpoint of the chefs I trust. They won't eat it.

> SilverSpoon is the only one who claims he experienced any ill
> effects, which are probably all psychosomatic (from anticipating
> getting sick).

Of course it's psychosomatic--he disagreed! I think "butt****er" is
probably quicker for an ineffective counter, though.

> He is in the minority.

Your a bullshitter too. You have no idea what the majority/minority
response is to eating raw escolar. Personal insult did't work, lies
don't get traction; I don't think invention will help.

> And you are just another psychotic Chicken Little.

Pussies, butt****ers, psychosomatic neurotics, psychotics: Your
evaluation of the sports page must be a riot!
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

On 2010-04-25 08:48:57 -0700, Sqwertz said:

>> If the chef won't eat it, I won't eat it. That's information I can use.
>
> There you go again.

Yeah: Simple conclusions guide a lot of my simple decisions.

>> "A guy named Sqwertz says he didn't get the shits when he ate it."
>> That's not what I call a useful tip.
>
> Hey, butt****er. Count the number of people here who have posted
> that they did not have any ill effects after eating it. And then
> count the number of people who did try it and have had ill effects.

Share your gifted logic with cigarette smokers. I don't think usenet
posters is really the base I should use for my conclusions. After a
lifetime in their field, my favorite chefs trump five guys on usenet.
Even ten!

> It's not just me. My experience is backed up by 4 other people.

It's nice to know what you consider corroboration

> Now, if you're done making an ass out of yourself, kindly **** off.

It never fails to amaze me how much vitriol and angst some people can
generate about such picayune matters. I suppose you start shrieking and
collapse in a seizure when somebody doesn't like CheeseWhiz on their
French fries.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 16:01:10 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:

> James Silverton wrote:
>>
>> Dan wrote on Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:38:35 -0400:
>>
>>> Every person is different.. some people's digestive system may
>>> not be able to handle any at all.
>>
>> Since Squirts has been blocked for obvious reasons, I only see it
>> sometimes in quotes. I wonder why the Japanese government agrees with
>> me?
>
> What? They block Sqwertz too?

they're still kinda sore about hiroshima.

your pal,
blake

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Nanzi >
wrote:


> I completely agree, Dan. We love White Tuna, as our fav sushi bar
> calls it.


Careful! Although some sushi bars call escolar white tuna (or shiro
maguro) others use that term for albacore. Be sure you know which you
are getting.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT), Nanzi >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I completely agree, Dan. We love White Tuna, as our fav sushi bar
>>calls it.
>
>
>
> Careful! Although some sushi bars call escolar white tuna (or shiro
> maguro) others use that term for albacore. Be sure you know which you
> are getting.

Yes, I've seen white tuna for albacore and super white for escolar.

--
Dan

<yawn>

Name your chefs and I'll email them and ask if they know you and
have told you anything about escolar.

C'mon, liar. Put up or shut up.

-sw

Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...

James Silverton wrote:

> Hello All!
>
> I know I cannot eat escolar without dire consequences but I wonder if
> the Japanese government still bans its sale? I know people in the US
> who insist on eating it but I ate it *once* in the form of two pieces
> 2x1x0.5 inches and for about an hour I thought it was wonderful :-)
>
> When I was a child during WWII a canned fish from South Africa called
> snoek was sold for a little while. I believe snoek is an other name
> for escolar and I can understand why it was no great success.
>
They might be the same 'family' but don't think the Cape snoek that we
get in South Africa is exactly the same as the escolar you're talking
about; the common names are pretty close tho' e.g. Escolier vs Escolier
noire, etc. so maybe that's why people assume it's the same fish
<shrug>

Snoek:

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ary.php?ID=489

Escolar:

http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/Spec...ry.php?ID=1042

Besides, I've eaten (fresh, not canned) Cape snoek - wrapped in foil and
cooked on the 'braai' (grill) - and it wasn't all *that* oily. In
fact, that's why we use foil - if we don't we've found that it can turn
out quite dry. Quite popular here, and I've never heard of people
having, um, any 'adverse reactions' to eating it. However, it is full
of bones so I understand why it might not be everybody's 'cup of tea'.
Anyway, FWIW, I don't like the canned (often curried) snoek available
here either ;-)
--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

robert ratskywatsky wrote:
> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...

Well that might not be the escolar.. could be, but there might be other
reasons.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-26 06:54:28 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

> robert ratskywatsky wrote:
>> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
>> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
>> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...
>
> Well that might not be the escolar.. could be, but there might be other
> reasons.

You mean like e-coli?
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-26 06:54:28 -0700, Dan Logcher said:
>
>> robert ratskywatsky wrote:
>>
>>> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
>>> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
>>> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...
>>
>>
>> Well that might not be the escolar.. could be, but there might be other
>> reasons.
>
> You mean like e-coli?

Yeah, or whatever other bacteria and stuff.. many reason people could have
these issues. Problems with buffet sushi is not a bit surprise.

--
Dan

On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT), robert ratskywatsky wrote:

> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...

I never got to try Todai afetr hearing "so much" about it.

Escolar is seasonal around here. I don't know how any reputable
sushi joint (not Todai) could have it on the menu year round.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT), robert ratskywatsky wrote:
>
>
>>Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
>>Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
>>bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...
>
>
> I never got to try Todai afetr hearing "so much" about it.
>
> Escolar is seasonal around here. I don't know how any reputable
> sushi joint (not Todai) could have it on the menu year round.

It comes vacuumed sealed and frozen in New England, packaged as oilfish.
Pretty much all places around here have it year round.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-26 10:47:02 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT), robert ratskywatsky wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
>>> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
>>> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...
>>
>>
>> I never got to try Todai afetr hearing "so much" about it.
>>
>> Escolar is seasonal around here. I don't know how any reputable
>> sushi joint (not Todai) could have it on the menu year round.
>
> It comes vacuumed sealed and frozen in New England, packaged as oilfish.
> Pretty much all places around here have it year round.

Does anybody know the hows and whys of how it became a consumer fish?
Of course 20 years ago I never heard of anything called "oilfish", but
20 years ago in food and dining in the US might has well have been 100
years ago.

When did oilfish become commonly sold and eaten in New England?
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-26 10:47:02 -0700, Dan Logcher said:
>
>> Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:03:57 -0700 (PDT), robert ratskywatsky wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Todai buffets always used to have escolar labeled as "white tuna".
>>>> Very tasty. I used to wonder why I often had to make a rather urgent
>>>> bathroom stop after eating at the Todai...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I never got to try Todai afetr hearing "so much" about it.
>>>
>>> Escolar is seasonal around here. I don't know how any reputable
>>> sushi joint (not Todai) could have it on the menu year round.
>>
>>
>> It comes vacuumed sealed and frozen in New England, packaged as oilfish.
>> Pretty much all places around here have it year round.
>
>
> Does anybody know the hows and whys of how it became a consumer fish?
> Of course 20 years ago I never heard of anything called "oilfish", but
> 20 years ago in food and dining in the US might has well have been 100
> years ago.
>
> When did oilfish become commonly sold and eaten in New England?

I only started seeing it first in sushi bars in Boston about 10 - 12 years
ago maybe. I also saw it in San Francisco in 2000. Its much more common
in sushi bars all over now. I just had some in Clearwater, Fl.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-26 14:28:23 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

>> When did oilfish become commonly sold and eaten in New England?
>
> I only started seeing it first in sushi bars in Boston about 10 - 12 years
> ago maybe. I also saw it in San Francisco in 2000. Its much more common
> in sushi bars all over now. I just had some in Clearwater, Fl.

The first time I remember being offered it was about 11 or 12 years ago
in New Orleans. That's the time I mentioned upstream where the chef
looked away when he said he didn't eat it. So at that point I must have
already heard that it was disagreeable for others, because I was
already wary.

Interesting how these things morph...
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-26 14:28:23 -0700, Dan Logcher said:
>
>>> When did oilfish become commonly sold and eaten in New England?
>>
>>
>> I only started seeing it first in sushi bars in Boston about 10 - 12
>> years
>> ago maybe. I also saw it in San Francisco in 2000. Its much more common
>> in sushi bars all over now. I just had some in Clearwater, Fl.
>
>
> The first time I remember being offered it was about 11 or 12 years ago
> in New Orleans. That's the time I mentioned upstream where the chef
> looked away when he said he didn't eat it. So at that point I must have
> already heard that it was disagreeable for others, because I was already
> wary.
>
> Interesting how these things morph...

I've met some sushi chefs that don't eat any sushi.. I don't really trust
their opinion on sushi completely. Did the one in Nawlins say he ate any sushi?

--
Dan

On 2010-04-27 20:09:21 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

> I've met some sushi chefs that don't eat any sushi.. I don't really trust
> their opinion on sushi completely. Did the one in Nawlins say he ate
> any sushi?

I didn't explicitly ask him. I've never met a sushi chef that didn't
eat sushi. Wow! I would have a hard time getting with that, I think.

I've met a number of bartenders that "no longer" drink. I find that a
bit creepy too.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-27 20:09:21 -0700, Dan Logcher said:
>
>> I've met some sushi chefs that don't eat any sushi.. I don't really trust
>> their opinion on sushi completely. Did the one in Nawlins say he ate
>> any sushi?
>
>
> I didn't explicitly ask him. I've never met a sushi chef that didn't eat
> sushi. Wow! I would have a hard time getting with that, I think.
>
> I've met a number of bartenders that "no longer" drink. I find that a
> bit creepy too.

When I go onto a new (to me) sushi bar, I always ask the chef what is good
today. If he says everything, I get suspicious. I continue to ask questions
about the fish to find out if chef knows anything. I ask if he makes his own
saba, which type of tuna, and whether he eat sushi.

All of the good sushi chefs I know can answer these questions, will give pointers
on which items are best today, and won't serve bad uni.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-28 07:26:33 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

> When I go onto a new (to me) sushi bar, I always ask the chef what is good
> today. If he says everything, I get suspicious. I continue to ask questions
> about the fish to find out if chef knows anything. I ask if he makes his own
> saba, which type of tuna, and whether he eat sushi.

That's similar to my M.O. I word it "anything special; anything from
Japan", that helps to preclude the "everything's good" shtick. Among my
gauges is to say that I am a big fan of hikari-mono (shiney stuff which
includes saba, aji, kohada, sayori, etc.). If they give me a blank
look, I assume they are not Japanese. I also ask about saba and
sometimes tamago.

Not infrequently they'll say they don't have saba: "most Americans
don't like that". It's not a all-bets-off response, but at least he's
telling me something about his clientele, and likely about his approach
to that clientele. Same with the tamago. I really do like a little
piece of tamago at the end of the meal, with no sauce or anything.

But I've never even *thought* to ask if they eat sushi themselves. What
kind of chef doesn't taste his own food? Answer: the WRONG kind!

> All of the good sushi chefs I know can answer these questions, will
> give pointers
> on which items are best today, and won't serve bad uni.

Yeah, the later is a noteworthy one; someone eager to unload the Uni on
a Tuesday night.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-28 07:26:33 -0700, Dan Logcher said:
>
>> When I go onto a new (to me) sushi bar, I always ask the chef what is
>> good
>> today. If he says everything, I get suspicious. I continue to ask
>> questions
>> about the fish to find out if chef knows anything. I ask if he makes
>> his own
>> saba, which type of tuna, and whether he eat sushi.
>
>
> That's similar to my M.O. I word it "anything special; anything from
> Japan", that helps to preclude the "everything's good" shtick. Among my
> gauges is to say that I am a big fan of hikari-mono (shiney stuff which
> includes saba, aji, kohada, sayori, etc.). If they give me a blank look,
> I assume they are not Japanese. I also ask about saba and sometimes tamago.
>
> Not infrequently they'll say they don't have saba: "most Americans don't
> like that". It's not a all-bets-off response, but at least he's telling
> me something about his clientele, and likely about his approach to that
> clientele. Same with the tamago. I really do like a little piece of
> tamago at the end of the meal, with no sauce or anything.
>
> But I've never even *thought* to ask if they eat sushi themselves. What
> kind of chef doesn't taste his own food? Answer: the WRONG kind!

If the conversation gets to the point that I wonder if he knows what he's
doing, I'll ask if he eats sushi.. If he doesn't then its pretty much a
given I won't be back for a second meal. I also ask "what's good today",
because the "everything" response is a good indication that he doesn't
know what he's doing.

>> All of the good sushi chefs I know can answer these questions, will
>> give pointers on which items are best today, and won't serve bad uni.
>
> Yeah, the later is a noteworthy one; someone eager to unload the Uni on
> a Tuesday night.

I don't usually order uni till Thursday or Friday unless I know the place.
I always ask if the uni is fresh, so if I get a bad piece I know the chef
is crap.

--
Dan

In article >,
Dan Logcher > wrote:

> I also ask "what's good today", because the "everything" response
>is a good indication that he doesn't know what he's doing.

Or he seriously does, and this morning he went to the fish market and
only bought the best fish there. That case is easy to tell by the
very limited, and rapidly varying, menu.

Seth

Seth wrote:
> In article >,
> Dan Logcher > wrote:
>
>
>> I also ask "what's good today", because the "everything" response
>>is a good indication that he doesn't know what he's doing.
>
>
> Or he seriously does, and this morning he went to the fish market and
> only bought the best fish there. That case is easy to tell by the
> very limited, and rapidly varying, menu.

That rarely is the case. Typically they get some things here and there,
so not all will be good today. Also, some fish needs to age a bit depending
on how fresh it comes to them. A good sushi chef will know this and not
try and sell you something that isn't ready yet.

--
Dan