I am so excited I just taught myself (via online video) how to make California Rolls. They came out pretty darn good too. But I learned that its almost impossible to make a single serving. There is just too much rice leftover even if you make a minimal batch of sushi rice.

What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori would fare fine.

LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent lunch for my busy and health conscious diet and it would be good thing to make a large batch and then freeze them. Thanks!

> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.

You can of course freeze sushi but I would not eat it.

Avocado will probably turn into black mush and rice into rubber. Nori will lose crispness and it will probably be lika moist tissue paper. If you use anything frozen (crab) you should not freeze it again.

I know there is frozen sushi sets available but I would not touch them either although the freezing process is much quicker than freezing at home and it will preserve sushi much better.

If sushi is not eaten immediatly after it has been made it is not sushi and not worth eating.

Jukka

livefuz wrote:
> I am so excited I just taught myself (via online video) how to make
> California Rolls. They came out pretty darn good too. But I learned that
> its almost impossible to make a single serving. There is just too much
> rice leftover even if you make a minimal batch of sushi rice.
>
> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.
>
> LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent lunch for my
> busy and health conscious diet and it would be good thing to make a
> large batch and then freeze them. Thanks!

Unfortunately sushi rice does not freeze well. While I've had frozen
then thawed rice before, it lost a bit of its consistency. If you're
talking about freezing sushi rolls, definately no. Even refridgerating
for over a day seems to ruin it. Sushi is best made and eaten fresh.

The nori will be quite soggy, the rice will be drier and fall apart.
The other ingredients will probably be fine.. overall I'd say no.

--
Dan

Dan wrote on Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:31:24 -0400:

> livefuz wrote:
>> I am so excited I just taught myself (via online video) how
>> to make California Rolls. They came out pretty darn good too.
>> But I learned that its almost impossible to make a single
>> serving. There is just too much rice leftover even if you
>> make a minimal batch of sushi rice.
>>
>> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm
>> concerned about the integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think
>> the crab meat and nori would fare fine.
>>
>> LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent
>> lunch for my busy and health conscious diet and it would be
>> good thing to make a large batch and then freeze them.
>> Thanks!

> Unfortunately sushi rice does not freeze well. While I've had
> frozen then thawed rice before, it lost a bit of its
> consistency. If you're talking about freezing sushi rolls,
> definately no. Even refridgerating for over a day seems to
> ruin it. Sushi is best made and eaten fresh.

> The nori will be quite soggy, the rice will be drier and fall apart.
> The other ingredients will probably be fine.. overall
> I'd say no.

A prohibition of freezing is unfortunately necessary. As has been
pointed out, in decent sushi places, prepared sushi is only allowed to
stand around for a surprisingly short time, with reason.

I avoid the supermarket sushi proclaimed "Made fresh daily" as if that
was a recommendation. Even Kaiten (conveyor belt) sushi has a time
barcode on the plates in the better restaurants with automatic removal.
Some rather upscale local supermarkets have sushi counters but I have
found that, even if the sushi can be called acceptable, it is necessary
to be able to see the sushi chefs actually working behind the counter if
you are not to be disappointed.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2010-04-14 22:57:12 -0700, livefuz said:

> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them?

You can't freeze cooked rice. Freeze some and you'll see what it does
to it. Hell, bring back a few pieces from the sushi shop the next time
you go. That ought to be the perfect example.

Note that in sushi shops, they don't freeze the fish at night, they
only make it very very cold. Cold enough, I believe, that ice crystals
get started but don't take over. I know on a few occasions at one (not
very good) shop, that I had saba cold enough to crunch when eating
there early (5-ish) in the shift.

> I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.

I don't think any of it will work. The nori will be soggy/leathery.
Do it, let us know which components survived. I"m guessing none.

> LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent lunch for my
> busy and health conscious diet and it would be good thing to make a
> large batch and then freeze them. Thanks!

Sweet dreams, my child...
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

sometime in the recent past livefuz posted this:
> I am so excited I just taught myself (via online video) how to make
> California Rolls. They came out pretty darn good too. But I learned that
> its almost impossible to make a single serving. There is just too much
> rice leftover even if you make a minimal batch of sushi rice.
>
> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.
>
> LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent lunch for my
> busy and health conscious diet and it would be good thing to make a
> large batch and then freeze them. Thanks!
>
>
>
>
Still doubting that it would freeze and be edible afterward, I would suggest
vacuum sealing. That might help with moisture loss for the rice and
eliminate further oxidation. Certainly, I wouldn't keep it more than a
couple of days/weeks at the most. Don't make a great deal and if it doesn't
work to your liking, you won't be out a lot of time and wasted product.

I can't help but think, especially if you're making a California Roll (no
fish,) you might do better to make as little rice as you can, make enough
rolls for lunch, and then put plastic wrap in contact with the rice in a
covered bowl stored in the fridge. Should last for 2-3 days.

Let us know how it turns out. It's not likely to be as good as fresh, but
you might still find it suitable.

--
Wilson 44.69, -67.3

> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.

Liquid nitrogen might do the trick. ;-)

Jukka

Gerry wrote:
> On 2010-04-14 22:57:12 -0700, livefuz said:
>
>> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them?
>
>
> You can't freeze cooked rice. Freeze some and you'll see what it does to
> it. Hell, bring back a few pieces from the sushi shop the next time you
> go. That ought to be the perfect example.
>
> Note that in sushi shops, they don't freeze the fish at night, they only
> make it very very cold. Cold enough, I believe, that ice crystals get
> started but don't take over. I know on a few occasions at one (not very
> good) shop, that I had saba cold enough to crunch when eating there
> early (5-ish) in the shift.

I've had fish that wasn't thawed enough, its not really very good.
They should know better and let it warm up a bit.

--
Dan

On 2010-04-15 15:40:21 -0700, Dan Logcher said:

> Gerry wrote:
>> On 2010-04-14 22:57:12 -0700, livefuz said:
>>
>>> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them?
>>
>>
>> You can't freeze cooked rice. Freeze some and you'll see what it does
>> to it. Hell, bring back a few pieces from the sushi shop the next time
>> you go. That ought to be the perfect example.
>>
>> Note that in sushi shops, they don't freeze the fish at night, they
>> only make it very very cold. Cold enough, I believe, that ice crystals
>> get started but don't take over. I know on a few occasions at one (not
>> very good) shop, that I had saba cold enough to crunch when eating
>> there early (5-ish) in the shift.
>
> I've had fish that wasn't thawed enough, its not really very good.
> They should know better and let it warm up a bit.

Of course--I said it wasn't very good. Actualy I should have said it
was bad. That's the only time I've been served frozen fish of any kind
at a sushi bar.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

On 2010-04-15 11:45:16 -0700, Wilson said:

> Still doubting that it would freeze and be edible afterward, I would
> suggest vacuum sealing. That might help with moisture loss for the rice
> and eliminate further oxidation.

I can't imagine that working. I'd be very curious to hear any results
of vacuum-sealed frozen sushi. Very curious indeed.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

>>> Note that in sushi shops, they don't freeze the fish at night, they
>>> only make it very very cold. Cold enough, I believe, that ice crystals
>>> get started but don't take over. I know on a few occasions at one (not
>>> very good) shop, that I had saba cold enough to crunch when eating
>>> there early (5-ish) in the shift.

>> I've had fish that wasn't thawed enough, its not really very good.
>> They should know better and let it warm up a bit.

> Of course--I said it wasn't very good. Actualy I should have said it
> was bad. That's the only time I've been served frozen fish of any kind
> at a sushi bar.

The difference between acceptable storage temperature for fish and freezing is about 3-4 degrees (celsius). Fish goes quicly bad even in mormal fridge temperature 5C. This is because normal 'operating temperature' for fish muscles is not much higher. For example all fish enzymes 'are designed' to work in much lower temperature than in meat (mammal muscle) and may be still active.

So it is usually best to freeze fish, even overnight. Freezing must be as quick as possible (<-18C) in order to get as small ice crystals as possible. If the fish is kept just under 0 C freezing will be slow and big crystals will destroy fish structure. It is even worse if fish just melts and freezes again several times due to uneven temperature control in fridge.

If freezed (quickly) as individual fillets thawing is very quick in cold water bath inside plastic bag. Also in cold water fish will not get too warm on the surface while inside is still frozen.

I don't like cold fish in sushi, rather 'chambre' like redwine. Note that 'chambre' means room temperature before the age of central heating.

Jukka

> Just a random thought but what did people do about red wine in summer in
> days gone by?

Cellars? A terracotta pot soaked in water can be used as cooler too.

Jukka

Armadillo wrote on Fri, 16 Apr 2010 17:19:24 +0400:


>>>> Note that in sushi shops, they don't freeze the fish at
>>>> night, they only make it very very cold. Cold enough, I
>>>> believe, that ice crystals get started but don't take over.
>>>> I know on a few occasions at one (not very good) shop, that
>>>> I had saba cold enough to crunch when eating there early
>>>> (5-ish) in the shift.

>>> I've had fish that wasn't thawed enough, its not really very
>>> good. They should know better and let it warm up a bit.

>> Of course--I said it wasn't very good. Actualy I should have
>> said it was bad. That's the only time I've been served frozen
>> fish of any kind at a sushi bar.

> The difference between acceptable storage temperature for fish
> and freezing is about 3-4 degrees (celsius). Fish goes quicly bad even
> in mormal fridge temperature 5C. This is because
> normal 'operating temperature' for fish muscles is not much
> higher. For example all fish enzymes 'are designed' to work in
> much lower temperature than in meat (mammal muscle) and may be
> still active.

> So it is usually best to freeze fish, even overnight. Freezing
> must be as quick as possible (<-18C) in order to get as small ice
> crystals as possible. If the fish is kept just under 0 C
> freezing will be slow and big crystals will destroy fish
> structure. It is even worse if fish just melts and freezes
> again several times due to uneven temperature control in
> fridge.

> If freezed (quickly) as individual fillets thawing is very
> quick in cold water bath inside plastic bag. Also in cold
> water fish will not get too warm on the surface while inside
> is still frozen.

> I don't like cold fish in sushi, rather 'chambre' like
> redwine. Note that 'chambre' means room temperature before the
> age of central heating.

Thanks for the very reasonable discussion.

Just a random thought but what did people do about red wine in summer in
days gone by?

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On 2010-04-16 07:45:42 -0700, James Silverton said:

> Just a random thought but what did people do about red wine in summer
> in days gone by?

They stored them in cellars beneath ground, I know.

But I read recently that in ancient Rome wine was made very stout,
perhaps even reduced or something. In actual usage it was mixed with
water.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.

On Apr 15, 1:57*am, livefuz >
wrote:
> I am so excited I just taught myself (via online video) how to make
> California Rolls. They came out pretty darn good too. But I learned that
> its almost impossible to make a single serving. There is just too much
> rice leftover even if you make a minimal batch of sushi rice.
>
> What are everyones thoughts about freezing them? I'm concerned about the
> integrity of the avocado and the rice. I think the crab meat and nori
> would fare fine.
>
> LMK what everyone's thoughts are! These are an excellent lunch for my
> busy and health conscious diet and it would be good thing to make a
> large batch and then freeze them. Thanks!
>
> --
> livefuz


Rather than making just a Cali roll, why not make a menu plan for a
batch of sushi rice that will get you through a few meals? The trick
is not to season the full batch of rice for sushi. I do this all the
time and it saves me lots of wasted rice and a good amount of cash as
well. That short grain rice is really great for most dishes that call
for a rice component. Add butter and re-heat if you like it that way.
Fried rice is awesome made with it, and I dare say it'll be every bit
as good as what you can get at a chinese restaurant provided you have
all the additional ingredients chopped up before you start. I've made
a sort of risotto out of cooked rice with some seafood stock and
vegetables added. If you like making cajun & creole, the stuff can be
re-heated then served as plain white rice. I've done that a number of
times and I really like the fact that it tends to soak up any stray
sauce like a sponge.

> well. That short grain rice is really great for most dishes that call
> for a rice component. Add butter and re-heat if you like it that way.
> Fried rice is awesome made with it, and I dare say it'll be every bit
> as good as what you can get at a chinese restaurant provided you have

Starch in rice may get old like starch in bread.

Over time starch starts to crystallize which makes the stale taste in bread. Heating, like toasting, will reconstruct starch and break the crystals. It will make the bread taste fresh again and in a way it really is. However, after heating crystallization will happen even more quickly. Also crystallization is quicker in fridge so bread will stay fresh longer in room temperature. Maybe rice too.

Jukka

Armadillo wrote on Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:09:14 +0400:


>> well. That short grain rice is really great for most dishes that
>> call for a rice component. Add butter and re-heat if you
>> like it that way. Fried rice is awesome made with it, and I
>> dare say it'll be every bit as good as what you can get at a chinese
>> restaurant provided you have

> Starch in rice may get old like starch in bread.

> Over time starch starts to crystallize which makes the stale
> taste in bread. Heating, like toasting, will reconstruct
> starch and break the crystals. It will make the bread taste
> fresh again and in a way it really is. However, after heating
> crystallization will happen even more quickly. Also
> crystallization is quicker in fridge so bread will stay fresh longer
> in room temperature. Maybe rice too.

I'm not sure that I believe you about toast. Freeezing bread can slow
down the oxidation but it does not taste the same as toasted fresh
bread. I'll admit that freezing is a reasonable thing to do and can
apply to many forms of bread including pita and bagels.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

> I'm not sure that I believe you about toast.

How about Professor Peter Barham?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Barham)

This information is from his book Science of Cooking.

Jukka

> I'm not sure that I believe you about toast. Freeezing bread can slow
> down the oxidation but it does not taste the same as toasted fresh

Freezing bread is OK but refrigerator (fridge) temperature around 5C will make bread stale more quickly.

Jukka

Have you looked up beef negimaki? I've made it, and I think it would
freeze well. There is no rice in it, nor is there seaweed. I'm
reluctant to say this, no flames, but once in a pinch I make it from
Steakums meat. Harder than rocks to roll, but I did it. and it tasted
good too, not as good as the flank steak, but passable for just the 2
of us. And not at all full of starchy rice.
I too wish we could freeze sushi. I could eat it many days a week, but
the fresh fish is too dear to get delivered. Our favorite sushi fish
is white tuna, and I looked into Catalina Foods or Fish, and for 26$
you get 2 1/2 pounds. But the shipping was 25$. Made it too expensive.
Good Luck, Nan

Armadillo wrote on Thu, 22 Apr 2010 18:41:46 +0400:


>> I'm not sure that I believe you about toast.

> How about Professor Peter Barham?

> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Barham)

> This information is from his book Science of Cooking.

"Professor of Molecular Gastronomy"! Gawd!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not