We've talked about the abundance of "Japanese" restaurants which are
owned/operated by non Japanese
people in the U.S. Most commonly by those of Chinese and Korean ethnic
backgrounds. Undoubtedly some must be good, some must be bad.
I saw an interesting news clip on Japanese TV about the
explosive increase in the number of "Japanese restaurants"
in Paris. There were numerous restaurants which had non-sensical Japanese
names. Rather strange combinations like Yakitori and Sushi. Even a really
strange one of Sushi plus a bowl of rice. And Sushi using plain rice.
Anyway, what I saw seemed much worse than what I see here in the U.S. where
so many Chinese restaurants have become "Chinese/Japanese Restaurants". A
government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese trade
and investments is apparently putting together a certification system so
that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by the consumer, a
seal on the window something like Zagats.
If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think this
would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?

M

On 2006-11-21 13:55:58 -0800, "Musashi" > said:

> A government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese
> trade and investments is apparently putting together a certification
> system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by
> the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.

What would make it authentic? The out-of-state Japanese owner that
hires whomever he can to work in his restaurant? Or a bonafide
Japanese sushi chef. One of my worst recent experiences was a 2nd
generation Japanese guy (nisei) whose parents are both Japanese and
don't speak English very well. He's one of the worst I've ever had.
Doesn't even know all the Japanese names for fish. "Hey is that ika?"
"No, it's squid." He'd be a bad chef at a Burger King.

> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think
> this would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?

It would be like a licences chiropracter--no guaranteee of anything.

-- What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

"Musashi" > wrote:
> We've talked about the abundance of "Japanese" restaurants which are
> owned/operated by non Japanese

Some years ago, while in Miami, we went to a 'Sushi' bar on the Strand. It
turned out to be a combination 'sushi' bar/Thai restaurant. The 'sushi'
chefs were Thai as was the waitstaff. Nobody spoke any Japanese or even
knew the Japanese names for the various neta (except petite moi). The sushi
was OK and my Thai wife and kids enjoyed getting authentic Thai food.

> A government related organization JETRO which specializes
> in Japanese trade and investments is apparently putting together a
> certification system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be
> identified by the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.
> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think this
> would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?

Couldn't hurt. After a brief exchange, I can pretty much tell if the Itamae
is Japanese. Made on-site Tamago is a good test, as is Uni. If they have
Kaiaki or Fancifully-named Rolls, I brace myself!

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~

"Gerry" > wrote in message
news:2006112114562882327-somewhere@sunnycalif...
> On 2006-11-21 13:55:58 -0800, "Musashi" > said:
>
> > A government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese
> > trade and investments is apparently putting together a certification
> > system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by
> > the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.
>
> What would make it authentic? The out-of-state Japanese owner that
> hires whomever he can to work in his restaurant? Or a bonafide
> Japanese sushi chef. One of my worst recent experiences was a 2nd
> generation Japanese guy (nisei) whose parents are both Japanese and
> don't speak English very well. He's one of the worst I've ever had.
> Doesn't even know all the Japanese names for fish. "Hey is that ika?"
> "No, it's squid." He'd be a bad chef at a Burger King.
>

LOL. Sorry to laugh at your misfortune. But you raise a very valid poiint.
What exactly
will be the standard. A Japanese chef trained in Japan (in some unknown
little hole)
is going to be worse than a Chinese chef trained in a first class place or
under a
well known chef.
Frankly, from the TV story I saw, the whole attempt wasn't targeting
debatable rstaurants.
Rather, the target was restaurants which very obviously had NO IDEA of
properly
preparing Japanese food and were effectively "duping" an unsuspecting
public.

> > If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think
> > this would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?
>
> It would be like a licences chiropracter--no guaranteee of anything.
>

True.

M

The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish
thing. The best thing about my favorite Sushi Chef is that he's modest
and approachable.



Musashi wrote:
> "Gerry" > wrote in message
> news:2006112114562882327-somewhere@sunnycalif...
>> On 2006-11-21 13:55:58 -0800, "Musashi" > said:
>>
>>> A government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese
>>> trade and investments is apparently putting together a certification
>>> system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by
>>> the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.
>> What would make it authentic? The out-of-state Japanese owner that
>> hires whomever he can to work in his restaurant? Or a bonafide
>> Japanese sushi chef. One of my worst recent experiences was a 2nd
>> generation Japanese guy (nisei) whose parents are both Japanese and
>> don't speak English very well. He's one of the worst I've ever had.
>> Doesn't even know all the Japanese names for fish. "Hey is that ika?"
>> "No, it's squid." He'd be a bad chef at a Burger King.
>>
>
> LOL. Sorry to laugh at your misfortune. But you raise a very valid poiint.
> What exactly
> will be the standard. A Japanese chef trained in Japan (in some unknown
> little hole)
> is going to be worse than a Chinese chef trained in a first class place or
> under a
> well known chef.
> Frankly, from the TV story I saw, the whole attempt wasn't targeting
> debatable rstaurants.
> Rather, the target was restaurants which very obviously had NO IDEA of
> properly
> preparing Japanese food and were effectively "duping" an unsuspecting
> public.
>
>>> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think
>>> this would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?
>> It would be like a licences chiropracter--no guaranteee of anything.
>>
>
> True.
>
> M
>
>

And he knows baseball all over the planet..



Howard Johnson wrote:
> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish
> thing. The best thing about my favorite Sushi Chef is that he's modest
> and approachable.
>
>
>
> Musashi wrote:
>> "Gerry" > wrote in message
>> news:2006112114562882327-somewhere@sunnycalif...
>>> On 2006-11-21 13:55:58 -0800, "Musashi" > said:
>>>
>>>> A government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese
>>>> trade and investments is apparently putting together a certification
>>>> system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by
>>>> the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.
>>> What would make it authentic? The out-of-state Japanese owner that
>>> hires whomever he can to work in his restaurant? Or a bonafide
>>> Japanese sushi chef. One of my worst recent experiences was a 2nd
>>> generation Japanese guy (nisei) whose parents are both Japanese and
>>> don't speak English very well. He's one of the worst I've ever had.
>>> Doesn't even know all the Japanese names for fish. "Hey is that ika?"
>>> "No, it's squid." He'd be a bad chef at a Burger King.
>>>
>>
>> LOL. Sorry to laugh at your misfortune. But you raise a very valid
>> poiint.
>> What exactly
>> will be the standard. A Japanese chef trained in Japan (in some unknown
>> little hole)
>> is going to be worse than a Chinese chef trained in a first class
>> place or
>> under a
>> well known chef.
>> Frankly, from the TV story I saw, the whole attempt wasn't targeting
>> debatable rstaurants.
>> Rather, the target was restaurants which very obviously had NO IDEA of
>> properly
>> preparing Japanese food and were effectively "duping" an unsuspecting
>> public.
>>
>>>> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think
>>>> this would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?
>>> It would be like a licences chiropracter--no guaranteee of anything.
>>>
>>
>> True.
>>
>> M
>>
>>

On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:

> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.

What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

On a personal note, I've learned to avoid restaurants that are Asian
and not Japanese when there is a Sushi sign outside. Sushi Thai, Sushi
Korean, etc. is often a disappointment. In South Florida it seems as
if the ration of true Japanese restaurants to fake Japanese restaurants
is about 1 in 30.

In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
f says...
>On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>
>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.
>
>What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>
Who invented the Kebab
Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
And much much more.

Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
Greek product.
But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
roadside just outside the market.

Good times.
--
Carl Robson
Audio stream: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com:8000/samtest
Homepage: http://www.bouncing-czechs.com
Now Playing at home:Ikon-on the trail of tears

Elder wrote:
> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
> f says...
>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>>
>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.
>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>
> Who invented the Kebab
> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
> And much much more.
>
> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
> Greek product.
> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
> roadside just outside the market.
>
> Good times.

My favorite feta is Bulgarian. Lovely sharp flavor.

It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.

One can argue the MacDonald's don't make a real hamberger but who
cares. If you want a high end berger go to a good restaurant.
Millions get Big Mac's because they taste good to people. Same with
pizza, Tex-Mex, etc. Americans really don't care if it's what the
foreigners eat but what taste good to Americans.

How many of you agree with your local food critic?

I've seem people gooble up sweet corn that to me was only fit for
cattle feed. So having a "real Jappanese" seal would only mean even
the Japanese will eat it.

Most Americans would probably barf if they ate "real Japanese". The
reason there are so many non-Japanese Japanese restaurants is probably
people didn't support "real Japanese" joints.

The best feta is by far is the Bulgarian sheep's milk. But it's not
called feta.

Find it at your local Middle Eastern Grocery. Even at $14 a pound -
it's a steal. Uhhhn.. great with LOX (trying to stay on topic..)



Elder wrote:
> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
> f says...
>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>>
>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.
>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>
> Who invented the Kebab
> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
> And much much more.
>
> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
> Greek product.
> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
> roadside just outside the market.
>
> Good times.

Salty Sweet and Fresh to the point.

Fatty Sweet and Burnt is what 'we' like.


James wrote:
> It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.
>
> One can argue the MacDonald's don't make a real hamberger but who
> cares. If you want a high end berger go to a good restaurant.
> Millions get Big Mac's because they taste good to people. Same with
> pizza, Tex-Mex, etc. Americans really don't care if it's what the
> foreigners eat but what taste good to Americans.
>
> How many of you agree with your local food critic?
>
> I've seem people gooble up sweet corn that to me was only fit for
> cattle feed. So having a "real Jappanese" seal would only mean even
> the Japanese will eat it.
>
> Most Americans would probably barf if they ate "real Japanese". The
> reason there are so many non-Japanese Japanese restaurants is probably
> people didn't support "real Japanese" joints.
>

Hi Geoff..

I should have read further down the thread.. Do you worry about Chernobyl?

I am amazed to meet someone with such great taste in cheese on this
sushi group - dairy is almost anathema to the Japanese. Do you post to
any cheese groups?



Geoff wrote:
> Elder wrote:
>> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
>> f says...
>>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson >
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs
>>>> Turkish thing.
>>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>>
>> Who invented the Kebab
>> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
>> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
>> And much much more.
>>
>> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
>> Greek product.
>> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
>> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
>> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
>> roadside just outside the market.
>>
>> Good times.
>
> My favorite feta is Bulgarian. Lovely sharp flavor.

Talk to me about olives in the Middle East and Southern Europe.. *sigh*
There are a few advantages to living in Amerika but many disadvantages
also. Olives, feta, pita, - no wonder NOAH lived to be 900. Oh - and
wild rice.. (trying to stay on topic)..


Elder wrote:
> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
> f says...
>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>>
>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.
>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>
> Who invented the Kebab
> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
> And much much more.
>
> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
> Greek product.
> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
> roadside just outside the market.
>
> Good times.

On 2006-11-23 07:50:49 -0800, Elder > said:

> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
> f says...
>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>>
>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish thing.
>>
>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>
> Who invented the Kebab
> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
> And much much more.
>
> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
> Greek product.
> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
> roadside just outside the market.
>
> Good times.

Certainly the Greeks and Turks go way back in their rivalries, as do
the Japanese and Koreans.

But I don't know what it is that you find so dumb. Different people do
different things different ways. Others note the distinctions. You've
just point out that some of the Feta you've liked best wasn't Greek.
For example. Welcome to dumbton.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

On 2006-11-23 08:15:31 -0800, "James" > said:

> One can argue the MacDonald's don't make a real hamberger but who
> cares. If you want a high end berger go to a good restaurant.
> Millions get Big Mac's because they taste good to people. Same with
> pizza, Tex-Mex, etc. Americans really don't care if it's what the
> foreigners eat but what taste good to Americans.

And frequently their tastes are limited by experience, and not
particularly well-educated in food. Who cares? You probably can't get
a Kenyan to eat caviar.

> How many of you agree with your local food critic?

Total agreement or vehement disagreement. :-)

> I've seem people gooble up sweet corn that to me was only fit for
> cattle feed. So having a "real Jappanese" seal would only mean even
> the Japanese will eat it.

I think it is a marketing ploy. I don't think it has anything to do
with whether a Japanese, or an American sushi-snob will eat it. We
don't read any of the other 20 stickers on their front door, why would
we read that one?

> Most Americans would probably barf if they ate "real Japanese".

I disagree. I think most Americans find rice, noodles, vegetables,
soup and fish to be mighty tasty. Most "real Japanese" don't eat sushi
twice a day.

> The reason there are so many non-Japanese Japanese restaurants is
> probably people didn't support "real Japanese" joints.

Just the opposite, I think the reason they eat at non-Japanese joints
is because they like them, just as you said at the top. They may not
know any better, but again it doesn't really matter: they like it.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

I tend to think that we are all human beings.

Gerry wrote:
> On 2006-11-23 07:50:49 -0800, Elder > said:
>
>> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
>> f says...
>>> On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson >
>>> said:
>>>
>>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs
>>>> Turkish thing.
>>>
>>> What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>>
>> Who invented the Kebab
>> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
>> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
>> And much much more.
>>
>> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
>> Greek product.
>> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
>> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
>> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
>> roadside just outside the market.
>>
>> Good times.
>
> Certainly the Greeks and Turks go way back in their rivalries, as do the
> Japanese and Koreans.
>
> But I don't know what it is that you find so dumb. Different people do
> different things different ways. Others note the distinctions. You've
> just point out that some of the Feta you've liked best wasn't Greek.
> For example. Welcome to dumbton.

Please explain first what this "thing" is, and why
it is dumb.

Thank you
M

"Howard Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish
> thing. The best thing about my favorite Sushi Chef is that he's modest
> and approachable.
>
>
>
> Musashi wrote:
> > "Gerry" > wrote in message
> > news:2006112114562882327-somewhere@sunnycalif...
> >> On 2006-11-21 13:55:58 -0800, "Musashi" > said:
> >>
> >>> A government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese
> >>> trade and investments is apparently putting together a certification
> >>> system so that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by
> >>> the consumer, a seal on the window something like Zagats.
> >> What would make it authentic? The out-of-state Japanese owner that
> >> hires whomever he can to work in his restaurant? Or a bonafide
> >> Japanese sushi chef. One of my worst recent experiences was a 2nd
> >> generation Japanese guy (nisei) whose parents are both Japanese and
> >> don't speak English very well. He's one of the worst I've ever had.
> >> Doesn't even know all the Japanese names for fish. "Hey is that ika?"
> >> "No, it's squid." He'd be a bad chef at a Burger King.
> >>
> >
> > LOL. Sorry to laugh at your misfortune. But you raise a very valid
poiint.
> > What exactly
> > will be the standard. A Japanese chef trained in Japan (in some unknown
> > little hole)
> > is going to be worse than a Chinese chef trained in a first class place
or
> > under a
> > well known chef.
> > Frankly, from the TV story I saw, the whole attempt wasn't targeting
> > debatable rstaurants.
> > Rather, the target was restaurants which very obviously had NO IDEA of
> > properly
> > preparing Japanese food and were effectively "duping" an unsuspecting
> > public.
> >
> >>> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think
> >>> this would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?
> >> It would be like a licences chiropracter--no guaranteee of anything.
> >>
> >
> > True.
> >
> > M
> >
> >

"Elder" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article <2006112222175716807-somewhere@sunnycalif>,
> f says...
>>On 2006-11-22 18:53:20 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>>
>>> The Korean vs Japanese thing is about as dumb as the Greek vs Turkish
>>> thing.
>>
>>What is the Greek vs Turkish thing?
>>
> Who invented the Kebab
> Is Raki or Ouzo the original drink.
> Is Feta Greek or Turkish.
> And much much more.
>
> Feta is now a "protected national product" in europe as a genuinley
> Greek product.
> But let me tell tell you, some of the best Feta I've eaten was at a
> farmers market in Kusadasi. Bought some local bread, a couple of ripe
> Toms, a hand full of Olives, some feta cheese and had lunch at the
> roadside just outside the market.
>

Well if this is an example of a "Korean-Japanese thing" I don't see how it
applies since nobody is claiming sushi
(as popularized globally) to be anything but Japanese.
No one in Jaan would ever claim that Kimchi is anything
but Korean in origin.
M

On 2006-11-23 10:29:44 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:

> Do you post to any cheese groups?

There are cheese groups on usenet?
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

On 2006-11-23 10:35:27 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:

> Talk to me about olives in the Middle East and Southern Europe..
> *sigh* There are a few advantages to living in Amerika but many
> disadvantages also. Olives, feta, pita, - no wonder NOAH lived to be
> 900. Oh - and wild rice.. (trying to stay on topic)..

We use to have (until only a couple of months ago) a GREAT
eastern-European supermarket, called "Zakie's". Just the one outlet
Fullerton. Lord god amighty it was great. About 40 or 50 sausages I
had never seen or heard of before, mostly Bulgarian, Polish, Roumanian.
And lots of curious olives of many kinds. A number of cheeses but
most of them quite mild. What a tragic loss. They were as big as your
average supermarket. We couldn't believe the place. And know I'm not
sure I believe my memories...

Also found a local Lebanese place, Cedar, that cooks pita when you
order the foul. Hot little balloons of bread. That's the stuff.
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

On 2006-11-23 11:12:38 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:

> I tend to think that we are all human beings.

Me too. But sometimes I slip out of gear...
--
What a day this has been, what a rare mood I'm in.

Howard Johnson wrote:

> Hi Geoff..
>
> I should have read further down the thread.. Do you worry about Chernobyl?
>
> I am amazed to meet someone with such great taste in cheese on this
> sushi group - dairy is almost anathema to the Japanese. Do you post to
> any cheese groups?

I am a huge cheese lover.. feta is one of my top favorites.
Along with Gouda (pronounced how-duh). Japanese cuisine does not
include dairy products, I assume due to the lack of space for dairy
cows.

--
Dan

Gerry wrote:

> On 2006-11-23 10:29:44 -0800, Howard Johnson > said:
>
>> Do you post to any cheese groups?
>
>
> There are cheese groups on usenet?

alt.food.cheese? maybe..

--
Dan

"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Howard Johnson wrote:
>
> > Hi Geoff..
> >
> > I should have read further down the thread.. Do you worry about
Chernobyl?
> >
> > I am amazed to meet someone with such great taste in cheese on this
> > sushi group - dairy is almost anathema to the Japanese. Do you post to
> > any cheese groups?
>
> I am a huge cheese lover.. feta is one of my top favorites.
> Along with Gouda (pronounced how-duh). Japanese cuisine does not
> include dairy products, I assume due to the lack of space for dairy
> cows.
>

Indeed traditional Japanese cuisine contains dairy products no more than
traditional western
European cuisines contain soy products.
However, cheese is widely available in any supermarket in Japan, as the
production of
milk and cheese was introduced to Japan in the late 1800s. While you can
find domestically
produced Yukijirushi brand cheese in any Japanese supermarket, you can go to
a Costco in Japan
and buy all the imported Cheddar, Swiss, and Gouda you want.
The Northern Island of Hokkaido has been known for it's dairy farms for
about 100 years
and yes, there are even Japanese cowboys.
The notion that Japan is very crowded comes from the fact that the
population is so heavily
clustered in tyhe metropolitan areas.
M

Musashi wrote:
> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Howard Johnson wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Geoff..
> > >
> > > I should have read further down the thread.. Do you worry about
> Chernobyl?
> > >
> > > I am amazed to meet someone with such great taste in cheese on this
> > > sushi group - dairy is almost anathema to the Japanese. Do you post to
> > > any cheese groups?
> >
> > I am a huge cheese lover.. feta is one of my top favorites.
> > Along with Gouda (pronounced how-duh). Japanese cuisine does not
> > include dairy products, I assume due to the lack of space for dairy
> > cows.
> >
>
> Indeed traditional Japanese cuisine contains dairy products no more than
> traditional western
> European cuisines contain soy products.
> However, cheese is widely available in any supermarket in Japan, as the
> production of
> milk and cheese was introduced to Japan in the late 1800s. While you can
> find domestically
> produced Yukijirushi brand cheese in any Japanese supermarket, you can go to
> a Costco in Japan
> and buy all the imported Cheddar, Swiss, and Gouda you want.
> The Northern Island of Hokkaido has been known for it's dairy farms for
> about 100 years
> and yes, there are even Japanese cowboys.
> The notion that Japan is very crowded comes from the fact that the
> population is so heavily
> clustered in tyhe metropolitan areas.
> M

Some Asians have trouble with dairy products, from simply farting to
throwing up.

Musashi wrote:
> We've talked about the abundance of "Japanese" restaurants which are
> owned/operated by non Japanese
> people in the U.S. Most commonly by those of Chinese and Korean ethnic
> backgrounds. Undoubtedly some must be good, some must be bad.
> I saw an interesting news clip on Japanese TV about the
> explosive increase in the number of "Japanese restaurants"
> in Paris. There were numerous restaurants which had non-sensical Japanese
> names. Rather strange combinations like Yakitori and Sushi. Even a really
> strange one of Sushi plus a bowl of rice. And Sushi using plain rice.
> Anyway, what I saw seemed much worse than what I see here in the U.S. where
> so many Chinese restaurants have become "Chinese/Japanese Restaurants". A
> government related organization JETRO which specializes in Japanese trade
> and investments is apparently putting together a certification system so
> that "Authentic" Japanese Restaurants can be identified by the consumer, a
> seal on the window something like Zagats.
> If such a thing were institututed in the United States, do you think this
> would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?
>
> M

I don't think it makes much of a difference. Personally I think it's
nothing more than a marketing gimmick.The reasoning is rather simple if
you think about it. Nobody would argue that in Japan, the food choices
are wide and varied. If you go into a typical corporate fast food type
place, the Big Macs, Colonel's original recipe and anything else is
going to taste pretty much like what you get here. That familiar big
old sign out in the parking lot says so. And chances are, there are
probably not going to be anything but Japanese people working there.
And their customers probably will not care whether the stuff they are
eating is authentic or not.

>From what I see, having a certification system would do little for the
American diner. If it did matter, then you could probably leave out the
thousands of teppanyaki type places, and even more if you toss in the
:ahem: Japanese food court establishments in malls. I think about the
only thing they could certify is the preparation style and mebbe
methods. Trying to do that for ingredients would be a joke, because
it's virtually impossible to get that true Japanese taste unless you
import the cuisine's unique staple items. Meaning soy sauces, mirin,
miso, wasabi and things of that nature. Kikkoman soy made here in North
America tastes far different than the stuff made in Japan. Ditto for
rice vinegars and miso paste. And as far as I know, American varieties
of seaweeds taste little like their Japanese counterparts.

I would describe it as a Nationalistic Rivalry that would lead to
another war if either of the two countries started up a military
industrial complex. Same with Greece and Turkey - it is historical.

I love Korean food and culture, and I love Japanese food and culture..

"Why can't we all just get along?"...

WAR - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? - and the obligatory: iwashi salt grilled -
amazing stuff.

Musashi wrote:
> Please explain first what this "thing" is, and why
> it is dumb.
>
> Thank you
> M

parrotheada1a wrote:

> it's virtually impossible to get that true Japanese taste unless you
> import the cuisine's unique staple items. Meaning soy sauces, mirin,
> miso, wasabi and things of that nature. Kikkoman soy made here in North
> America tastes far different than the stuff made in Japan. Ditto for
> rice vinegars and miso paste. And as far as I know, American varieties
> of seaweeds taste little like their Japanese counterparts.
>

Anyone ever enjoy cherry smoked Maine Dulce? Put that under a fresh
uni with a drop of sesame oil between them. ( I shouldn't be reading
this group before dinner..)

The best soy sauce ever IMHO is an organic made in Southern California.

You're right about Kikkoman - get your soy sauces at an Asian Grocery.

"James" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Musashi wrote:
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Howard Johnson wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Geoff..
> > > >
> > > > I should have read further down the thread.. Do you worry about
> > Chernobyl?
> > > >
> > > > I am amazed to meet someone with such great taste in cheese on this
> > > > sushi group - dairy is almost anathema to the Japanese. Do you
post to
> > > > any cheese groups?
> > >
> > > I am a huge cheese lover.. feta is one of my top favorites.
> > > Along with Gouda (pronounced how-duh). Japanese cuisine does not
> > > include dairy products, I assume due to the lack of space for dairy
> > > cows.
> > >
> >
> > Indeed traditional Japanese cuisine contains dairy products no more than
> > traditional western
> > European cuisines contain soy products.
> > However, cheese is widely available in any supermarket in Japan, as the
> > production of
> > milk and cheese was introduced to Japan in the late 1800s. While you can
> > find domestically
> > produced Yukijirushi brand cheese in any Japanese supermarket, you can
go to
> > a Costco in Japan
> > and buy all the imported Cheddar, Swiss, and Gouda you want.
> > The Northern Island of Hokkaido has been known for it's dairy farms for
> > about 100 years
> > and yes, there are even Japanese cowboys.
> > The notion that Japan is very crowded comes from the fact that the
> > population is so heavily
> > clustered in tyhe metropolitan areas.
> > M
>
> Some Asians have trouble with dairy products, from simply farting to
> throwing up.
>

This is quite true. You must be talking about lactose intolerance. I don't
know about "Asians" and LI, but
I can assure you that it is not an issue in Japan.
Pills designed to assist in breaking down lactose or lacotose free milk
(like Lactaid) aren't found on
the shelves of US supermarkets and CVS's because there
are an awful alot of Asians in the US.
M

I agree that nationalist rivalry is "dumb".
However, I don't believe my original post was about nationalist rivalry.
I too enjoy Japanese, Chinese, Korean, most European and Mediterranean
foods,
and others. This whole issue is not about what countries cuisine is "better"
as in
the Rich Asian Kid's post. Nor is it about what nationalty of "sushi" , as
this is
not being debated by anyone.
This is about effectively "fake" Japanese restaurants which serve foods that
are so off
the mark that an organization connected to the Japanese government is
considering
a standard of authenticity. It is of course also about whether another seal
on the front door
right under the Zagats and Diners Club really makes much difference.
Speaking of salt grilled iwashi, the Portugese do the exact same thing. But
they eat it with bread
rather than rice.
M


"Howard Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> I would describe it as a Nationalistic Rivalry that would lead to
> another war if either of the two countries started up a military
> industrial complex. Same with Greece and Turkey - it is historical.
>
> I love Korean food and culture, and I love Japanese food and culture..
>
> "Why can't we all just get along?"...
>
> WAR - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR? - and the obligatory: iwashi salt grilled -
> amazing stuff.
>
> Musashi wrote:
> > Please explain first what this "thing" is, and why
> > it is dumb.
> >
> > Thank you
> > M

"James" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.
>

Could you clarify the difference between a "sushi snob" and a person who is
simply very well
experienced and consequently knowledgable about sushi? Is there one?
Thank you
M

On 23 Nov 2006 08:15:31 -0800, "James" > wrote:

>Most Americans would probably barf if they ate "real Japanese". The
>reason there are so many non-Japanese Japanese restaurants is probably
>people didn't support "real Japanese" joints.

Disagree. The reason there are so few authentic Japanese restaurants
in the US is because there are so few authentic Japanese in the US.
Very simple. Most Japanese do not want to live in the US.
Nona
My Profile: http://www.recipezaar.com/member/61569

Musashi wrote:
> "James" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.
> >
>
> Could you clarify the difference between a "sushi snob" and a person who is
> simply very well
> experienced and consequently knowledgable about sushi? Is there one?
> Thank you
> M

I would say a snob is the one who puts people down whereas the well
experienced enjoys his sushi and isn't crapping in his pants if the guy
next to him puts catsup on sushi.

Musashi wrote:
> "James" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.
> >
>
> Could you clarify the difference between a "sushi snob" and a person who is
> simply very well
> experienced and consequently knowledgable about sushi? Is there one?
> Thank you
> M

I would say a snob is the one who puts people down whereas the well
experienced enjoys his sushi and isn't crapping in his pants if the guy
next to him puts catsup on sushi.

Hi M,

So we're in total agreement.. I just had to vent a little.

That's a good clue - I can't find a source of large sardines and I love
them. The pointy-nosed fishes at the Japanese Groceries are good - but
I need the Iwashi. I'll look to see if there are any Portuguese
Groceries around.

"James" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Musashi wrote:
> > "James" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > It makes no difference to me but I'm sure it does to sushi snobs.
> > >
> >
> > Could you clarify the difference between a "sushi snob" and a person who
is
> > simply very well
> > experienced and consequently knowledgable about sushi? Is there one?
> > Thank you
> > M
>
> I would say a snob is the one who puts people down whereas the well
> experienced enjoys his sushi and isn't crapping in his pants if the guy
> next to him puts catsup on sushi.
>

Ok, thank you for the explanation.
M

Hello, !
You wrote on 21 Nov 2006 23:20:55 GMT:

n> "Musashi" > wrote:
??>> We've talked about the abundance of "Japanese" restaurants
??>> which are owned/operated by non Japanese

n> Some years ago, while in Miami, we went to a 'Sushi' bar on
n> the Strand. It turned out to be a combination 'sushi'
n> bar/Thai restaurant. The 'sushi' chefs were Thai as was the
n> waitstaff. Nobody spoke any Japanese or even knew the
n> Japanese names for the various neta (except petite moi). The
n> sushi was OK and my Thai wife and kids enjoyed getting
n> authentic Thai food.

??>> A government related organization JETRO which specializes
??>> in Japanese trade and investments is apparently putting
??>> together a certification system so that "Authentic"
??>> Japanese Restaurants can be identified by the consumer, a
??>> seal on the window something like Zagats. If such a thing
??>> were institututed in the United States, do you think this
??>> would be a good thing? bad thing? make no difference?

n> Couldn't hurt. After a brief exchange, I can pretty much
n> tell if the Itamae is Japanese. Made on-site Tamago is a
n> good test, as is Uni. If they have Kaiaki or
n> Fancifully-named Rolls, I brace myself!

It's certainly true that chefs and assistants of apparently
Japanese extraction are a good sign but it is not an infallible
test. I think I may have mentioned some misguided things made by
chefs with Japanese names, including the *blue* "Marine Rolls"
made by someone whose other inspirations are very good. A
Chinese buffet restaurant that I know has a chef who "looks
Japanese" and the sushi looks very competently made but, IMHO,
the fish is not sushi quality. A Japanese restaurant that I
patronize has some chefs who look Caucasian and a lot of chefs
making French food are not French (and sometimes are Japanese!).

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not

"Howard Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> parrotheada1a wrote:
>
>> it's virtually impossible to get that true Japanese taste
>> unless you
>> import the cuisine's unique staple items. Meaning soy sauces,
>> mirin,
>> miso, wasabi and things of that nature. Kikkoman soy made
>> here in North
>> America tastes far different than the stuff made in Japan.
>> Ditto for
>> rice vinegars and miso paste. And as far as I know, American
>> varieties
>> of seaweeds taste little like their Japanese counterparts.
>>
>
> Anyone ever enjoy cherry smoked Maine Dulce? Put that under
> a fresh uni with a drop of sesame oil between them. ( I
> shouldn't be reading this group before dinner..)
>
> The best soy sauce ever IMHO is an organic made in Southern
> California.
>
> You're right about Kikkoman - get your soy sauces at an Asian
> Grocery.

You might be better to find an actual Japanese grocery. I use an
Asian grocery (basically Chinese) but it has an extensive range
of Kikkoman products in addition to more esoteric ones! I must
have a look at the bottles carefully to see if they are
imported. This little supermarket has an amazing range of
Japanese and Filipino items. Most of the miso seems imported
from Japan.


--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland