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BestBread 01-04-2006 08:28 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
mixing a new SD recipe, I must have overtaxed my KA - I had to divide
the dough in half when the motor started to smell. Years ago, I only
kneaded by hand, but now I have bilateral epicondilytis (aka tennis
elbow albeit I never played tennis). The stores around here only carry
Kitchen Aid Mixers. Thanks,
Diane


Mike Avery[_1_] 02-04-2006 12:01 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On 1 Apr 2006 11:28:01 -0800, BestBread > wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
> mixing a new SD recipe, I must have overtaxed my KA - I had to divide
> the dough in half when the motor started to smell. Years ago, I only
> kneaded by hand, but now I have bilateral epicondilytis (aka tennis
> elbow albeit I never played tennis). The stores around here only carry
> Kitchen Aid Mixers.



There are lots of on-line vendors who carry a variety of mixers. Check out
bizrate.com or google.

However, a few thoughts. KitchenAid mixers will do a decent job on bread
doughs IF you read the manual and stay within their guidelines. Each mixer
has a maximum amount of flour it is rated for. However, that is white
flour. If you are using whole wheat or rye, you need to cut that in half.
Next, the KA's have a limited duty cycle. They suggest you not knead too
long (check your manual for the limits here), and most also suggest no more
than 2 batches back to back, followed by a 45 minute or so cool-down period
(again, check your manual). I don't know why the call some of their
machines "professional" or "commercial" when they clearly aren't, but they
are adequate for most home mixing purposes.

Also, despite your elbow issues, I think that making bread by hand isn't out
of the question. I have two suggestions. One is, don't use your arms to
knead. In a martial arts class, my son was taught the arm is weak, but the
body is strong. So, don't hit with your arm, hit with your body, letting
your arm transmit the force. Similarly, you can knead by moving your body,
but not flexing - or putting strain on - your elbows. This will probably
work for you, but may not.

The second suggestion is, don't knead. It really isn't necessary. Instead
of kneading, use a stretch and fold technique. Mix your dough just enough
that the flour is hydrated (wet) and there are no puddles of unincorporated
water. It's OK if the dough is ugly and under-mixed. Really. It's OK if
your starter isn't mixed into the dough completely - even if it is still a
mass of gross strands through your dough. Once the flour is all wet,
transfer the dough to a bowl (if you didn't mix it in a bowl), cover it, and
let it sit for about 45 minutes.

Then remove the dough from the bowl and gently stretch it until it is about
3x as large as it started out in each direction. Try stretching it from the
underside, gently, teasing it, not forcing it. Fold the dough in from each
side like a letter, and place the fold side down in the bowl, cover and let
rest another 45 minutes.

Repeat the stretch and fold two more times. Each time you stretch and fold,
the dough is more developed. After the 3 stretch and folds, you'll be a
amazed to see it's as well developed as if you'd kneaded it - perhaps
better. Let the dough rise until doubled, and then handle it as you
normally would.

With practice, you may decide to do more, or less, stretch and folds. Pay
attention to your dough, it will tell you when it's ready. (That's a
metaphor, not an attempt to give human characteristics to something that is
not human....)

Again, if you use poolishes, starters, autolyse, bigas or other preferments,
don't worry about mixing them in completely at the first step. Even if they
are gloppy gross strands through your dough after the first rough mix,
they'll mix in nicely as you stretch and fold.

If you have a dough with seeds, nuts, grains, raisins or other stuff you'd
normally add at the end of kneading, add them at the start. Because you are
using a gentle non-kneading dough development, these ingredients won't
interfere with your dough development.

You may be surprised to find that your bread is better without kneading than
with it.

I've used this technique to make over 160 loaves of bread in a day pretty
much by myself. No mixer. My wife helps me for about an hour and a half at
the start by measuring ingredients while I do the first rough mixes.

How does this work? Many things can develop the gluten. In this case, the
simple act of wetting the flour does a lot of the work. More work is done
by the yeast's gas stretching the dough. More is done by the gentle
stretching and folding. Together these actions work very effectively to
gently develop the dough.

Good luck,
Mike


Dusty Bleher 02-04-2006 03:25 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
G'day all;

What Mike sez!

For years I lusted after a mixer. Kept reading here and other places that "the real bakers" all had 'em and used 'em. Then I got one. Then I discovered "stretch & fold" and "flatten & fold". Now my poor neglected mixer gathers dust waiting for me to make whipped cream or something...(:-o)!


L8r all,
Dusty

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message news:mailman.0.1143932505.92866.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
...
The second suggestion is, don't knead. It really isn't necessary. Instead of kneading, use a stretch and fold technique. Mix your dough just enough that the flour is hydrated (wet) and there are no puddles of unincorporated water. It's OK if the dough is ugly and under-mixed. Really. It's OK if your starter isn't mixed into the dough completely - even if it is still a mass of gross strands through your dough. Once the flour is all wet, transfer the dough to a bowl (if you didn't mix it in a bowl), cover it, and let it sit for about 45 minutes.
...

BestBread 02-04-2006 01:52 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Hi Mike,
Thank you so much for your detailed instructions! I will carefully try
your technique this week - unfortunately, my tendonitis is compounded
by a compressed nerve - in fact, I've learned to voice on the computer
and not shake hands (each of which I can't do without consequence), so
what may seem like a logical solution, may not work in my case. I am
most appreciative.
Diane


Samartha Deva[_1_] 02-04-2006 03:06 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Hello Diane,

I started with a Kitchen Aid mixer but then got a Magic Mill mixer (It's
from Electrolux and is now called "Assistant").

The Kitchenaid is a planetary mixer which drives it's dough hook through
the dough in a stationary bowl and needs a lot of power to do that.

My Kitchenaid started to smoke as well. There is a table of flour
weights dependent on hydration for making bread in the manual for the
Kitchenaid and if one goes over the amounts, the machine gets
overloaded. I think that Kitchenaid mixers can be good for making
smaller amounts of bread dough.

The Magic Mill (and others) spin the bowl and the friction between bowl
and dough moves the dough around a dough hook.

This requires much less power and when comparing the Kitchenaid and
Magic Mill, the Magic Mill is much smoother on the dough, does more
stretching/pressing whereas the Kitchenaid cuts with it's dough hook
through the dough.

With the Magic Mill, I can mix 3500 - 4000 g dough, something which
could never be achieve with the Kitchenaid I had - I think it was a 600
W mixer.

Another comparative Mixer I know about would be the Bosch, but this
mixer hat a stud in the middle of the bowl which I did not like.

There are other, more heavy duty mixers, like spiral mixers for small
lab quantities - but they are much more expensive (I think, over $ 1000,-).

Samartha

With your tennis elbow - I had one and it got healed. You can email me
by removing the "-nospam" from the above email, maybe I can tell you a
few things.


BestBread wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
> mixing a new SD recipe, I must have overtaxed my KA - I had to divide
> the dough in half when the motor started to smell. Years ago, I only
> kneaded by hand, but now I have bilateral epicondilytis (aka tennis
> elbow albeit I never played tennis). The stores around here only carry
> Kitchen Aid Mixers. Thanks,
> Diane
>
>
>



Boron Elgar[_1_] 02-04-2006 05:37 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On Sun, 02 Apr 2006 08:06:12 -0600, Samartha Deva
> wrote:

>Hello Diane,
>
>I started with a Kitchen Aid mixer but then got a Magic Mill mixer (It's
>from Electrolux and is now called "Assistant").
>

I, too, have a Magic Mill and find it quite remarkable.

I have arthritis which can sometimes make the simplest bread-making
tasks seem insurmountable. The Magic Mill has made a favorable
difference, but lifting the bowl filled with dough to scrape it out
can be a challenge and the mixer itself is heavy.

Granted, the removal of dough and the moving around of the mixer are
not too different from KA to MM to my Kenwood, but it should be noted.
Before investing in a MM, it would be great if the OP could find out
exactly what body movements are required for set up and use. They may
be ones that are easily accomplished or particularly difficult for
her.

Boron

Mike Avery[_1_] 02-04-2006 06:44 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On 4/2/06, Samartha Deva > wrote:
>
> Hello Diane,
>
> I started with a Kitchen Aid mixer but then got a Magic Mill mixer (It's
> from Electrolux and is now called "Assistant").



Actually, the Swede's can't spell and it's "Assistent". Who knows why?

The Magic Mill (and others) spin the bowl and the friction between bowl
> and dough moves the dough around a dough hook.
>
> This requires much less power and when comparing the Kitchenaid and
> Magic Mill, the Magic Mill is much smoother on the dough, does more
> stretching/pressing whereas the Kitchenaid cuts with it's dough hook
> through the dough.
>
> With the Magic Mill, I can mix 3500 - 4000 g dough, something which
> could never be achieve with the Kitchenaid I had - I think it was a 600
> W mixer.



Thanks for your comments on the Assistent/Magic Mill. I'll have to keep an
eye out for one for a friend.

Have you ever made very low hydration doughs with it - such as bagels or
Challah which hover around 50 - 55% hydration? If so, how did it go? If
you feel like experimenting, I can send you my sourdough bagel recipe.

Another comparative Mixer I know about would be the Bosch, but this
> mixer hat a stud in the middle of the bowl which I did not like.



I had a Bosch, and sold it on eBay. It heated the dough excessively, and
didn't develop the dough very well. I also didn't like how the plastic bowl
flexed, so I bought a stainless steel bowl, only to find that parts of the
center post were made with bakelite, which shattered the first time an
employee put the bowl back together incorrectly and used it. Also, the
whisk beaters can not cope with any but the softest butter without
self-destructing. All in all, I was not at all impressed with the Bosch and
do not recommend them to anyone.

Mike


northwestsourdough.com 02-04-2006 11:39 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
>Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
>mixing a new SD recipe,


I have a K-Tech mixer and I use it almost every day. It mixes up six
pounds of dough without any problem. It probably will do more, but I
leave my dough in the bowl to rise so I have it half empty for that
purpose. I make three 2 pound loaves each time I use it. I never take
more than five minutes to mix. I love my mixer, and would rather use
that then knead by hand.It is so quick and easy for me. I have
directions for using the mixer with sourdough breads at:
http://www.northwestsourdough.com/techniques.html if you would like to
see what I do for mixing sourdoughs.
Have a great day,
Teresa


BestBread 03-04-2006 12:03 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Wow. That's a huge amount of dough. How easily does it clean?
Thanks,
Diane


Samartha Deva[_1_] 03-04-2006 12:03 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
northwestsourdough.com wrote:
>> Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
>> mixing a new SD recipe,

>
> I have a K-Tech mixer and I use it almost every day. It mixes up six
> pounds of dough without any problem.


If that's the one advertised on the bottom of the page you give below,
that looks just like the one Mike Avery was talking about - the one with
the plastic bowl bending and the post in the middle....

Just out of interest - aren't you making a buck (or a fraction of it)
every time someone clicks on one of your links to Amazon, or is it if
somebody actually buys something?

I always wonder about those things.

S.

> It probably will do more, but I
> leave my dough in the bowl to rise so I have it half empty for that
> purpose. I make three 2 pound loaves each time I use it. I never take
> more than five minutes to mix. I love my mixer, and would rather use
> that then knead by hand.It is so quick and easy for me. I have
> directions for using the mixer with sourdough breads at:
> http://www.northwestsourdough.com/techniques.html if you would like to
> see what I do for mixing sourdoughs.
> Have a great day,
> Teresa
>
>
>



BestBread 03-04-2006 12:08 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Oh, I can't seem to figure out how to send you an email. I thought I
knew what I was doing, but the email I sent got bounced back. My
husband is working on taxes, so I'll have to wait to get his techie
assistance. Thanks for your offer of help. I have read just about
every book on the subject and have seen scores of OTs and PTs. Using
Kineseotape has been quite helpful - it's made in Japan, but most
American MDs and therapists don't know about this simple technique.


Mike Avery[_1_] 03-04-2006 01:45 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On 4/2/06, Samartha Deva > wrote:
>
> northwestsourdough.com wrote:
> >> Can anyone recommend a heavy-duty mixer? This morning when I was
> >> mixing a new SD recipe,

> >
> > I have a K-Tech mixer and I use it almost every day. It mixes up six
> > pounds of dough without any problem.

>
> If that's the one advertised on the bottom of the page you give below,
> that looks just like the one Mike Avery was talking about - the one with
> the plastic bowl bending and the post in the middle....



The one she is using is not the same as the one Amazon is advertising on her
page. The one Amazon is advertizing, at least when I visited the page, is
the same model Bosch that I used and sold on eBay because I really didn't
like it.

Just out of interest - aren't you making a buck (or a fraction of it)
> every time someone clicks on one of your links to Amazon, or is it if
> somebody actually buys something?



I have some links to half.com for book sales on books I recommend. If
anyone ever uses one of those links and buys a book, I'll get a few pennies
(so far, in 3 or 4 years, no one has followed my book links and bought a
book). I'm also using google ads - it brings in a few bucks a day (please
click the links and make me rich!), enough to cover my dsl costs and a
little bit more.

I only found one company who wanted to support my web page, and when their
ownership changed, they stopped advertising. Actually, they stopped paying
me. After I asked them for clarification and received neither payment nor
clarification, I dropped their ads....

Anyway, someone has to pay for web pages, whether it's the hosts out of the
goodness of their hearts, advertisers, or sales..... in the end, I decided
my page has to at least pay for itself. All of this goes to say that I
personally don't have a problem with Teresa selling things or running
advertising on her page. We're all free to either visit her page or not, to
buy her poroducts or not....

Mike


BestBread 03-04-2006 02:12 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
This is getting confusing. Teresa recommends a KTec, but it turns out
it looks like a Bosch, but isn't. Teresa gave us a link for KTec on a
website which I think belongs to either Teresa or Mike. I'm not sure
because there is no name, but there is a photograph of a female. The
Magic Mill is highly rated as well. I checked out Bakers Catalogue and
they state that the Viking is their "mixer of choice" but also
recommend the Electrolux Assistent (with the non-English spelling) if
you "can't afford a Hobart". I think I'm going to work on writing this
week's grammar test where only pronouns can be ambiguous.
;-)


BigJohn[_2_] 03-04-2006 04:02 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Not sure if this is the exact mixer you are looking at, but Breadbeckers.com
has it for sale and has some detailed info on it.


"BestBread" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Wow. That's a huge amount of dough. How easily does it clean?
> Thanks,
> Diane
>




northwestsourdough.com 03-04-2006 04:51 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
<If that's the one advertised on the bottom of the page you give below,

<that looks just like the one Mike Avery was talking about - the one
with
<the plastic bowl bending and the post in the middle....

<Just out of interest - aren't you making a buck (or a fraction of it)
<every time someone clicks on one of your links to Amazon, or is it if
<somebody actually buys something?

Hi The one advertised by Amazon on my website is a Bosch, I tried to
find a company to advertise a K-Tec but so far I haven't been able to.
I have never had a Bosch, so the reviews given here are the ones I
would go by. The K-Tec works great , and I just soak it in warm water
and use a kitchen brush to get the dough off. I got mine off of Ebay
years ago and it has never once given me any problems. So if you can
find one somewhere, I certainly would give it a go. (If you find a
source, drop me an email and I would be happy to see if the company
wanted to advertise on my site). As for making money on Amazon, I have
made 18.33 dollars since I set up my site in January,and sold 22 items
which helps pay for Domanin Name fees,Ebay/Paypal fees for me to be
able to list my sourdough starter.It isn't much but it helps out.
Teresa
So it isn't much, but


northwestsourdough.com 03-04-2006 07:06 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
I added a Blendtec to my site on the Techniques page. The reason I was
not finding K-tec is because the company changed it's name to Blendtec.
However, the amazon one is high compared to one I found and one someone
sent me at these sites:

http://www.breadmachinedigest.com/st...ing/listing/11

http://kodiakhealth.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id/3499

The Blendtec is supposed to be the strongest motor for a kitchen mixer.
I don't know about the newer models as I have an older model.
Good luck,
Teresa


Norm Hansen[_1_] 03-04-2006 09:19 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
northwestsourdough.com wrote:
<snip>
> Hi The one advertised by Amazon on my website is a Bosch, I tried to
> find a company to advertise a K-Tec but so far I haven't been able to.
> I have never had a Bosch, so the reviews given here are the ones I
> would go by. The K-Tec works great , and I just soak it in warm water
> and use a kitchen brush to get the dough off. I got mine off of Ebay
> years ago and it has never once given me any problems. So if you can
> find one somewhere, I certainly would give it a go. (If you find a

<snip>


I too use the K-TEC bread mixer, and can highly recommend it; I have
used mine for almost fifteen years without the slightest problem. My
normal size batch of bread is 1050 CCs water and 1600 grams bread flour,
and it handles that fine.

I bought mine from their distributer in Orem, Utah. Their address is:
1206 South 1680 West
Orem, Utah 84058
Phone 801-222-0888 Ask for Ext. 707 for home users

Norm

And no, I do not receive a recommenders fee :<)
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Dave Bell 03-04-2006 11:05 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006, Norm Hansen wrote:

> I too use the K-TEC bread mixer, and can highly recommend it; I have
> used mine for almost fifteen years without the slightest problem. My
> normal size batch of bread is 1050 CCs water and 1600 grams bread flour,
> and it handles that fine.
>
> Norm


Is this the K-TEC K2, 1.8 HP model, or is it an older, perhaps more
durable version? (Sadly, almost everything is changing for the worse)

Dave

northwestsourdough.com 03-04-2006 11:54 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
I don't know what happened to my previous post, I tried to provide some
links I had found but it never posted, I tried to do a preview, so
there wouldn't be a strange ending again (like on my last post), and
then posted, but it never showed up. Anyway, I found out that the
reason I couldn't find much on K-Tec is because the company changed
it's name to Blendtec. I did put a link to an Amazon version on my
website, but there were other sites out there with a lot cheaper prices
plus free shipping. I asked one of them if they wanted to advertise on
my site. Here are the links to the best prices I could find and one was
sent to me by someone from this group:

http://www.breadmachinedigest.com/st...ing/listing/11

http://kodiakhealth.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id/3499

It is supposed to be the most powerful home mixer made at 1400 Watts.
Anyway, I also don't know what the quality is like on the newer models
as mine is an older one. I hope this helps,
Teresa


Mike Avery[_1_] 04-04-2006 05:46 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On 3 Apr 2006 15:54:26 -0700, northwestsourdough.com <
> wrote:
>
>
> It is supposed to be the most powerful home mixer made at 1400 Watts.
> Anyway, I also don't know what the quality is like on the newer models
> as mine is an older one. I hope this helps,




Gee, I don't know if that reminds me more of Dirty Harry ("The most powerful
handgun in the world") or "The Magic Christian" where Peter Sellers and
Ringo Starr wax ecstatic about the value of a "quick clean kill".

The issue with mixers is not, and never has been, power. My old 30 quart
Hobart (I suspect it was over 40 years old when I bought it) had a 250 watt
motor. It made about 8 large batches of bread back to back, followed by
bagels and pizza dough every day for over a year. It worked very, very
well. And kept on going and going and going.

What is important is the construction and design quality and design
appropriateness.

A person can mix large quantities of dough all day long, and they can't put
out 1/2 horsepower, much less 2 horsepower. The big issue with home mixers
is they usually have a variable speed motor that means when the mixer makes
bread the motor has to put out maximum torque at low speed, which electric
motors have trouble doing. Real professional machines have a single speed
motor and a geared transmission, so the motor is always moving at it's
optimum speed. Other key factors are lubrication and cooling.

If you can afford it, a small used hobart with a real transmission might be
an excellent choice for a serious home baker.

However, power IS a sales feature. Many people who don't know better will
grab the mixer with the higher power motor. Even though that is no
guarantee of effectiveness or longevity.

Mike


Gary Woods 04-04-2006 12:36 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
"Mike Avery" > wrote:

>What is important is the construction and design quality and design
>appropriateness.


Bingo!

My 500+-watt KA was a gutless wonder before a kitchen fire murdered it and
a lot of _good_ stuff. The first one arrived with some bearing not lubed
and squealed like a pig; they replaced it promptly enough but I should have
been warned. Just barely enough balls to knead the 1 batch of the Poilane
recipe from here. I've been lurking in this thread, getting ideas for a
decent replacement when the time comes.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Dick Adams[_1_] 04-04-2006 02:55 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 

"Gary Woods" > wrote in message ...

> My 500+-watt KA was a gutless wonder ... Just barely enough
> balls to knead the 1 batch of the Poilane recipe...


> I've been lurking in this thread, getting ideas for a
> decent replacement when the time comes.


Here's another idea: You'll probably need to lay in a Humvee
or 6x6 for when it comes time to go to the supermarket for
a sack of bread flour.

--
Dicky


Will[_1_] 04-04-2006 03:27 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 

Gary Woods wrote:
> I've been lurking in this thread, getting ideas for a
> decent replacement when the time comes.


I suspect some of KA's problems are marketing ones. The watts thing is
confusing. I read over at one of the tech groups that KA now measures
power when the machine is running full bore. In the past, power was
pegged to mid-point in the "curve". For sure, my older KA, one of the
small Hobart models, is a more sturdy, more powerful machine than my
newer (and larger) one from the recent Whirlpool era.

Mike Avery offers two really decent pieces of advice. One is to look
into a single speed model. I don't know what that is though I know
Hobart still makes a small 3 speed, model. The other, and to my
thinking, more useful advice... is to learn to develop good dough
without mechanical kneading. This is surprisingly easy. Of course, it
goes against the modern technological paradigm: that one must deploy a
machine to get something done. But it does work, and, from my
experience over a good bit of time, it works better. It takes a big
bowl, a stout spoon, and the mental fortitude to "leave something
alone".

So while you're lurking... give the no-knead process a trial. Give it a
month or two. It may be that the best replacement is no replacement. My
KA's have retired to milling flour, rolling pasta, and beating cream. I
expect them to last forever.


Slim Langer 06-04-2006 08:01 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
Mike Avery wrote Sun, Apr 2 2006 10:44 am:

I had a Bosch, and sold it on eBay. It heated the dough excessively,
and
didn't develop the dough very well. I also didn't like how the plastic
bowl
flexed, so I bought a stainless steel bowl, only to find that parts of
the
center post were made with bakelite, which shattered the first time an
employee put the bowl back together incorrectly and used it. Also, the
whisk beaters can not cope with any but the softest butter without
self-destructing. All in all, I was not at all impressed with the
Bosch and
do not recommend them to anyone.

Mike


I disagree with Mike Avery's assessment of the Bosch mixer. He's not
taking into account the amount of flour he is mixing which *IS*
important in the performance of the Bosch, given the fixed size of the
bowl and dough hook. Unfortunately *NOBODY* tells you this before you
buy the mixer, or frequently after either. The large bowl has a "sweet
spot" for dough mixing. One pound or less, and the dough has too much
room and too little resistance; it just scoots rediculously around the
bottom like a hockey puck, taking forever to come together. Nine or ten
pounds or more, and the dough starts to have too little room, is
thrashed by the dough hook, and too quickly heated as he describes.

In the middle ground, between two and eight pounds of dough, say, the
mixer works very well indeed. (I have to be imprecise at the upper
limit, because I don't usually make such big recipes.) The dough ball
has the right amount of resistance for the geometry of the bowl. It has
room in the bowl to turn around three or four times as the dough hook
works through it once. The mixer is well powered and will mix any
recipe with whole grain flour, properly hydrated in this range. This is
useful because this is a normal, family-sized bread recipe, or double
batch. If any doubt that it does a good job, read Mr. Avery's comments
of three years ago, where he describes making a recipe side-by-side
with a KA mixer, one of a normal recipe size apparently that the
Kitchenaid *could* handle:

http://tinyurl.com/fzxbx

I've tried long autolyse recipes recommended by Calvel, and now Mr
Avery, too with good results. Long autolyse is a pleasingly apt
technique for sourdough, because of the long rise times. For daily
bread, it can be more convenient to give your recipe a few minutes
ride in the mixer, to immediately have a workable dough, rather than
doing the stretch and folds.

As to the wire whips, you need some judgment. Bosch has optional
heavier whips, but it's my opinion they should include the heavy ABS
plastic "cookie paddles" with the mixer, as most every other mixer
brand includes a wisk, a paddle and a dough hook with their mixer. I
have a set of the cookie paddles and they work really well with thick
batters, and, I'm told, cold butter too. I had to pay $25 mail order to
get them and I think they are made by someone other than Bosch. Though
frequently a dealer will combine a set when you buy the Bosch mixer.

Like Mr. Avery, if you don't like your Bosch mixer, remember if you
keep it together you can sell it on Ebay for nearly what you paid for
it, or more, if you got a good used one.

Slim


MBellerjeau 07-04-2006 12:05 AM

Mixer Recommendation
 
I also use the Kitchenetics or K-tech. It's at least 20 years old and still
works beautifully and I have been mixing and baking bread every week for all
of that time.
Michelle
PS The blender jar seat wore out years ago and I never replaced it but the
mixer is still running like a champ.

"Norm Hansen" > wrote in message
...
> northwestsourdough.com wrote:
> <snip>
>> Hi The one advertised by Amazon on my website is a Bosch, I tried to
>> find a company to advertise a K-Tec but so far I haven't been able to.
>> I have never had a Bosch, so the reviews given here are the ones I
>> would go by. The K-Tec works great , and I just soak it in warm water
>> and use a kitchen brush to get the dough off. I got mine off of Ebay
>> years ago and it has never once given me any problems. So if you can
>> find one somewhere, I certainly would give it a go. (If you find a

> <snip>
>
>
> I too use the K-TEC bread mixer, and can highly recommend it; I have used
> mine for almost fifteen years without the slightest problem. My normal
> size batch of bread is 1050 CCs water and 1600 grams bread flour, and it
> handles that fine.
>
> I bought mine from their distributer in Orem, Utah. Their address is:
> 1206 South 1680 West
> Orem, Utah 84058
> Phone 801-222-0888 Ask for Ext. 707 for home users
>
> Norm
>
> And no, I do not receive a recommenders fee :<)
> *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
> *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from
> http://www.SecureIX.com ***




Mike Avery[_1_] 07-04-2006 09:30 PM

Mixer Recommendation
 
On 6 Apr 2006 12:01:09 -0700, Slim Langer > wrote:
>
> Mike Avery wrote Sun, Apr 2 2006 10:44 am:
>
> I had a Bosch, and sold it on eBay. It heated the dough excessively,
> and didn't develop the dough very well. I also didn't like how the
> plastic
> bowl flexed, so I bought a stainless steel bowl, only to find that parts
> of
> the center post were made with bakelite, which shattered the first time an
> employee put the bowl back together incorrectly and used it. Also, the
> whisk beaters can not cope with any but the softest butter without
> self-destructing. All in all, I was not at all impressed with the
> Bosch and do not recommend them to anyone.





I disagree with Mike Avery's assessment of the Bosch mixer. He's not
> taking into account the amount of flour he is mixing which *IS*
> important in the performance of the Bosch, given the fixed size of the
> bowl and dough hook. Unfortunately *NOBODY* tells you this before you
> buy the mixer, or frequently after either. The large bowl has a "sweet
> spot" for dough mixing. One pound or less, and the dough has too much
> room and too little resistance; it just scoots rediculously around the
> bottom like a hockey puck, taking forever to come together. Nine or ten
> pounds or more, and the dough starts to have too little room, is
> thrashed by the dough hook, and too quickly heated as he describes.



That could be the issue, and also would explain the bowl flexing, though not
the poorly made stainless steel bowl.

If any doubt that it does a good job, read Mr. Avery's comments
> of three years ago, where he describes making a recipe side-by-side
> with a KA mixer, one of a normal recipe size apparently that the
> Kitchenaid *could* handle:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/fzxbx



I spent a number of years as a reviewer of computer network hardware and
software, and one thing I became very aware of was that there is a
difference between a quick look at something and making it part of your
network.

Or, in another setting, there is a difference between a good date, a hot
weekend with someone special, and actually marrying and living with
someone. The test refered to in the tinyurl above was a hot weekend. My
selling it was after living with it a while.

I bought the mixer for $150 used and sold it for $229 on ebay, so the deal
was hardly a loss.

It might be a great mixer for some folks, but when we went past small
batches, it just didn't work as well as I'd hoped.

Mike



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