Just want to mention to anyone that might have a problem of the same type,
there is advice out there to check your oven temp with some kind of
thermometer, I suggest it wholeheartedly. I recently found my cup
measurements were way off, so I decided to look into other things. I don't
have an oven thermometer, and didn't think I needed one, I just recently had
the serviceman check it under warranty and I was told the temp is right on.
I always have had problems with recipes where my bread burns at prescribed
temps, so my last bake I pulled my wood stove spring temp gauge and put it
in my oven. Not the most accurate thing, but I found the oven temp 35
degrees higher than Jenn- air's digital display. I had been baking closer
to 500 than 460! I lowered my oven temp 35 degrees lower, and had no burning
problem, and even baked as long as the recipe noted.

My quarry tiles are above my electric heating element, and they were not in
place when the serviceman did his check (I put the (magnetic) gauge about 6
inches above the tiles on the back oven wall. How might this affect my
findings? I am already thinking about doing checks without them (tiles) in
place, but I figured I would ask anyway.

hutchndi

hutchndi wrote:
>(I put the (magnetic) gauge about 6 inches above the tiles on the back oven wall.
> How might this affect my findings?

Well, it is physics so I had to ask the cat because she is much more
math orientated than I am. She says the tiles are something like a heat
sink and the air in the oven loses heat faster. So when the oven cycles
when heating up the tiles become hotter than the air in the oven while
the space is heating up. When the flame or electric shuts off, the
tiles continue to radiate heat until the air becomes hotter than the
thermostat setting. Perhaps the scientists here can explain that better.

Regards,

Charles

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 19:26:01 GMT, Charles Perry
> wrote:

>When the flame or electric shuts off, the
>tiles continue to radiate heat until the air becomes hotter than the
>thermostat setting.

Well, not quite...

It is not the air that will become hotter (or at least not
the air other than that right near the stone).

The issue is that the stone, being so much more massive than
the air, will retain its heat while the air rapidly cools.

When it does, the thermostat kicks the heat source on,
further heating both the stone, and the air, and the cycle
repeats.

Indeed, with that process, one can easily elevate the
stone's temperature to a point 150F higher than the maximum
available setting of the oven's thermostat (and thus the air
that it measures.)

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

So your saying that the higher oven temp is caused by the stone (tiles)
being in there? So if a recipe says bake on a stone at 450 degrees, hey
everybody DONT go by the ovens temperature setting, it wont be right? Or is
this something unique to my oven....

hutchndi

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:48:31 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

> So your saying that the higher oven temp is caused by the stone (tiles)
>being in there? So if a recipe says bake on a stone at 450 degrees, hey
>everybody DONT go by the ovens temperature setting, it wont be right? Or is
>this something unique to my oven....
>
>hutchndi
>

Howdy,

First, it makes things a bit easier to interpret if you
include something of the post to which you are responding...

That said, no, I did not say "that the higher oven temp is
caused by the stone (tiles) being in there."

I don't recall mentioning anything about the "oven temp."

I wrote "...one can easily elevate the stone's temperature
to a point 150F higher than the maximum available setting of
the oven's thermostat (and thus the air that it measures.)"

The oven's thermostat measures the temperature of the air
inside the oven. It does not measure the temperature of the
stone or tiles.

Particularly with a long preheat cycle, the surface
temperature of the stone or tiles will be higher than that
of the air in the oven, or, said another way, the stone will
be hotter than the setting on the thermostat.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote

> First, it makes things a bit easier to interpret if you
> include something of the post to which you are responding...
>
sorry...

> The oven's thermostat measures the temperature of the air
> inside the oven. It does not measure the temperature of the
> stone or tiles.
> Particularly with a long preheat cycle, the surface
> temperature of the stone or tiles will be higher than that
> of the air in the oven, or, said another way, the stone will
> be hotter than the setting on the thermostat.

Still trying to get it. My oven has a big fan in the back so when I lower
the temperature during a bake, the fan quickly sucks out enough air to lower
the temp, a few seconds. So if the stones are getting hotter than my temp
setting, and therefore heating my oven air 30 degrees hotter, why doesnt the
fan come on to compensate? I am measuring the oven temp, not the stones.

hutchndi

On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:35:11 -0500, "hutchndi"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote
>
>> First, it makes things a bit easier to interpret if you
>> include something of the post to which you are responding...
>>
>sorry...
>
>> The oven's thermostat measures the temperature of the air
>> inside the oven. It does not measure the temperature of the
>> stone or tiles.
>> Particularly with a long preheat cycle, the surface
>> temperature of the stone or tiles will be higher than that
>> of the air in the oven, or, said another way, the stone will
>> be hotter than the setting on the thermostat.
>
>Still trying to get it. My oven has a big fan in the back so when I lower
>the temperature during a bake, the fan quickly sucks out enough air to lower
>the temp, a few seconds. So if the stones are getting hotter than my temp
>setting, and therefore heating my oven air 30 degrees hotter, why doesnt the
>fan come on to compensate? I am measuring the oven temp, not the stones.
>
>hutchndi
>

Hi again,

(Hey, I'm pretty tenacious...<g>).

You say above: "So if the stones are getting hotter than my
temp setting, and therefore heating my oven air 30 degrees
hotter..."

The use of the word "So" would seem to indicate that you are
responding to something that I said, but I did not say that
the stone is "heating your oven air."

I did say (earlier in the thread) that "It is not the air
that will become hotter (or at least not the air other than
that right near the stone)."

And that is the whole point...

The thermostat does not "know" that the stone is hotter than
the air, and so, it turns on the heat source because the air
temperature is lower than its set point.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote
>
> The thermostat does not "know" that the stone is hotter than
> the air, and so, it turns on the heat source because the air
> temperature is lower than its set point.
>


Kenneth, no no no. The air is not lower than the set point, as I said
earlier my spring temp guage is a good 6 inches above the stone (yes I know
heat rises) so the AIR is HOTTER by 30 degrees than the set temp. The oven
should register this hotter AIR, I dont expect it to know the stone's temp.
I fully apologise if I am just too dense too find your reasoning, but the
simple fact is that if I adjust my oven temp to match what the spring guage
reads, my breads bake as instructions dictate (I am following Hamelmans
specified temps and times) but if I just go by the oven setting, I get burnt
bread if I dont take it out much earlier than prescribed. Now I cant find
any info anywhere that says if you are using a stone, lower your setting
because the oven gets hotter, but that IS whats happening.

By the way, lowering the actual temp inside the oven to align with the
guage and baking the full time, this made a big improvement in my bread, it
was always a bit heavier than now, so I think it was retaining a bit too
much moisture, and the crust has a much milder flavor.

hutchndi

"hutchndi" > wrote

I am already thinking about doing checks without them (tiles) in
> place, but I figured I would ask anyway.
>
Follow up on that, I made some bread pudding for my and the Mrs this
morning, a rare treat as I usually dont have bread around long enough, but
anyone peeking at my pics might guess I have plenty and the spring guage
does match the oven setting, at least when no stone is in there.....

hutchndi

hutchndi wrote:

> By the way, lowering the actual temp inside the oven to align with the
> guage and baking the full time, this made a big improvement in my bread...

Hutch,

Damn. A scale, Hamelman's book, the math, and now... a freaking oven
thermometer???

Whatever you do... do not, ever, get a flour mill. Everything posted
here about mills is a LIE.
That's right. A LIE.

Will

"Will" > wrote

> and now... a freaking oven
> thermometer???
>

Will, I did borrow this thing from my woodstove, so it doesnt really count
as a new gadget.


> Whatever you do... do not, ever, get a flour mill. Everything posted
> here about mills is a LIE.
> That's right. A LIE.


Nope, not on my to-do list yet. But I did just find out something cool. I
was asking a buddy at work if there was anybody on our crew that lived near
Kenyon's Mill, and he mentioned Drum Rock Products just a mile from my
house. The make specialty mixes for batters and clamcakes ( is that just a
New England thing?) and fritters, but grind their own flours and will sell
it outright fresh if you ask. I figure it is worth a visit, their website
seems to be down right now unfortunately.

hutchndi