Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 31-03-2005, 02:28 AM
doughwizard
 
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Default sourdough...carl starter

Why is it that the Carl starter tastes so funny. I followed all the
instructions to the letter and made the billow loaves on this site.
Well nobody likes them. They are o.k. for normal bread but do NOT taste
like the sourdough I grew up with (I know a little about sourdough as I
grew up in San Francisco!).

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures so it will NEVER taste
like sourdough. I've looked at older posts here and it seems to be
common that this culture is infoererior to most others in terms of
taste, but is a good riser. Which also makes me think that yes this
culture does contain *some* commercial yeast.

Help!! I need you ppl!


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Old 31-03-2005, 02:30 AM
doughwizard
 
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Default

Oh I should also say that my rising times were about 4 hrs at 80 deg,
then punch down then 4 more hours, baked on a stone at 475 for 45 mins.

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Old 31-03-2005, 02:30 AM
doughwizard
 
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Oh I should also say that my rising times were about 4 hrs at 80 deg,
then punch down then 4 more hours, baked on a stone at 475 for 45 mins.

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Old 31-03-2005, 04:48 AM
ellen wickberg
 
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Default

doughwizard wrote:
Why is it that the Carl starter tastes so funny. I followed all the
instructions to the letter and made the billow loaves on this site.
Well nobody likes them. They are o.k. for normal bread but do NOT taste
like the sourdough I grew up with (I know a little about sourdough as I
grew up in San Francisco!).

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures so it will NEVER taste
like sourdough. I've looked at older posts here and it seems to be
common that this culture is infoererior to most others in terms of
taste, but is a good riser. Which also makes me think that yes this
culture does contain *some* commercial yeast.

Help!! I need you ppl!

I doubt very much that Carl's friends are putting commercial yeast in
the starter they are sending out. Perhaps you prefer the taste of other
starters. I have eaten sourdough in S.F. and it is nothing like the
stuff that I fondly remember from the '50s in San Francisco. I suspect
that both it and I have changed. I think that there are many
sourdough tastes that people feel are "authentic". Depending on how
you make and rise your bread you can get many different tastes.
Ellen
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Old 31-03-2005, 04:48 AM
ellen wickberg
 
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Default

doughwizard wrote:
Why is it that the Carl starter tastes so funny. I followed all the
instructions to the letter and made the billow loaves on this site.
Well nobody likes them. They are o.k. for normal bread but do NOT taste
like the sourdough I grew up with (I know a little about sourdough as I
grew up in San Francisco!).

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures so it will NEVER taste
like sourdough. I've looked at older posts here and it seems to be
common that this culture is infoererior to most others in terms of
taste, but is a good riser. Which also makes me think that yes this
culture does contain *some* commercial yeast.

Help!! I need you ppl!

I doubt very much that Carl's friends are putting commercial yeast in
the starter they are sending out. Perhaps you prefer the taste of other
starters. I have eaten sourdough in S.F. and it is nothing like the
stuff that I fondly remember from the '50s in San Francisco. I suspect
that both it and I have changed. I think that there are many
sourdough tastes that people feel are "authentic". Depending on how
you make and rise your bread you can get many different tastes.
Ellen


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Old 31-03-2005, 04:49 AM
ellen wickberg
 
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Default

doughwizard wrote:
Oh I should also say that my rising times were about 4 hrs at 80 deg,
then punch down then 4 more hours, baked on a stone at 475 for 45 mins.

Sounds a lot like a method for commercial yeast risen bread. Try a
little longer, cooler rise.
Ellen
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Old 31-03-2005, 04:49 AM
ellen wickberg
 
Posts: n/a
Default

doughwizard wrote:
Oh I should also say that my rising times were about 4 hrs at 80 deg,
then punch down then 4 more hours, baked on a stone at 475 for 45 mins.

Sounds a lot like a method for commercial yeast risen bread. Try a
little longer, cooler rise.
Ellen
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Old 31-03-2005, 04:49 AM
ellen wickberg
 
Posts: n/a
Default

doughwizard wrote:
Oh I should also say that my rising times were about 4 hrs at 80 deg,
then punch down then 4 more hours, baked on a stone at 475 for 45 mins.

Sounds a lot like a method for commercial yeast risen bread. Try a
little longer, cooler rise.
Ellen
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Old 31-03-2005, 05:08 AM
Mike Avery
 
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Default

doughwizard wrote ..
Why is it that the Carl starter tastes so funny. I followed all the
instructions to the letter and made the billow loaves on this site.
Well nobody likes them. They are o.k. for normal bread but do NOT taste
like the sourdough I grew up with (I know a little about sourdough as I
grew up in San Francisco!).

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures so it will NEVER taste
like sourdough. I've looked at older posts here and it seems to be
common that this culture is infoererior to most others in terms of
taste, but is a good riser. Which also makes me think that yes this
culture does contain *some* commercial yeast.

Help!! I need you ppl!


Then you should try not to be offensive and ignorant, both at once. The Friends of Carl take their work very seriously, and they do not, and would not, put bakers yeast in it.

Even if there was any reason to do so.

A number of microbioligists have tested starters and found that bakers yeast will not survive more than two refreshments in a starter. The acidity is high enough that bakers yeast can not survive.

As to "good" or "bad" taste, Carl's is on the mild side of the spectrum. I have gotten very sour loaves from it from time to time. My feeling is that what a starter is fed is probably the most important determinant of taste. Low ash flours tend to yield sourdough breads that are milder. More ash content causes more sour taste to emerge. Longer rises also lead to stronger tastes.

Mike

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Old 31-03-2005, 05:08 AM
Mike Avery
 
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Default

doughwizard wrote ..
Why is it that the Carl starter tastes so funny. I followed all the
instructions to the letter and made the billow loaves on this site.
Well nobody likes them. They are o.k. for normal bread but do NOT taste
like the sourdough I grew up with (I know a little about sourdough as I
grew up in San Francisco!).

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures so it will NEVER taste
like sourdough. I've looked at older posts here and it seems to be
common that this culture is infoererior to most others in terms of
taste, but is a good riser. Which also makes me think that yes this
culture does contain *some* commercial yeast.

Help!! I need you ppl!


Then you should try not to be offensive and ignorant, both at once. The Friends of Carl take their work very seriously, and they do not, and would not, put bakers yeast in it.

Even if there was any reason to do so.

A number of microbioligists have tested starters and found that bakers yeast will not survive more than two refreshments in a starter. The acidity is high enough that bakers yeast can not survive.

As to "good" or "bad" taste, Carl's is on the mild side of the spectrum. I have gotten very sour loaves from it from time to time. My feeling is that what a starter is fed is probably the most important determinant of taste. Low ash flours tend to yield sourdough breads that are milder. More ash content causes more sour taste to emerge. Longer rises also lead to stronger tastes.

Mike



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Old 31-03-2005, 05:59 AM
Dick Adams
 
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Default


"Mike Avery" wrote in message =
news:[email protected] mail.otherwhen.com...

As to "good" or "bad" taste, Carl's is on the mild side of the =

spectrum. =20

So that would be a mild "good" taste, or a mild "bad" taste?

I have gotten very sour loaves from it from time to time.


No knowing where dumb luck will strike next! =20

My feeling is that what a starter is fed is probably the most=20
important determinant of taste.


Other than flour, what are the choices? =20

More ash content causes more sour taste to emerge.


At what point should the ashes be added? =20

Longer rises also lead to stronger tastes.


What if it just lies there and does not rise?

--
doughdummy

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Old 31-03-2005, 05:59 AM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Mike Avery" wrote in message =
news:[email protected] mail.otherwhen.com...

As to "good" or "bad" taste, Carl's is on the mild side of the =

spectrum. =20

So that would be a mild "good" taste, or a mild "bad" taste?

I have gotten very sour loaves from it from time to time.


No knowing where dumb luck will strike next! =20

My feeling is that what a starter is fed is probably the most=20
important determinant of taste.


Other than flour, what are the choices? =20

More ash content causes more sour taste to emerge.


At what point should the ashes be added? =20

Longer rises also lead to stronger tastes.


What if it just lies there and does not rise?

--
doughdummy

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Old 31-03-2005, 06:36 AM
gw
 
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Default

FWIW-I like the starter yeast from King Arthur, it's the French sourdough,
one begins with one quarter teaspoon, and refreshes from there. It's
something like 6.95 plus free shipping. (They stuff an envelope.)
It has been going now in the fridge for over a year, and it's the only bread
I can get which no matter what tastes good enough to eat.
I have two, by the way, from this starter, one is white unbleached, one is
whole wheat.
I made a starter with rye, (I forget from where, ) and while I get really
fast results, (the stuff just explodes~) the dough flattens out no matter
what I do.
The other starter does as well, but it tastes pretty good, no matter what.
My tastes, I guess. It's the one I am going to use to try some of Nancy
Silverton's recipes.

I could never get ANYWHERE with Carl's, at all. Not that it didn't taste ok,
but it was flat, and thicker than a doorstop. I am quite sure I was doing
something wrong, but it was so fussy, I just gave up on it.
gw


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Old 31-03-2005, 06:36 AM
gw
 
Posts: n/a
Default

FWIW-I like the starter yeast from King Arthur, it's the French sourdough,
one begins with one quarter teaspoon, and refreshes from there. It's
something like 6.95 plus free shipping. (They stuff an envelope.)
It has been going now in the fridge for over a year, and it's the only bread
I can get which no matter what tastes good enough to eat.
I have two, by the way, from this starter, one is white unbleached, one is
whole wheat.
I made a starter with rye, (I forget from where, ) and while I get really
fast results, (the stuff just explodes~) the dough flattens out no matter
what I do.
The other starter does as well, but it tastes pretty good, no matter what.
My tastes, I guess. It's the one I am going to use to try some of Nancy
Silverton's recipes.

I could never get ANYWHERE with Carl's, at all. Not that it didn't taste ok,
but it was flat, and thicker than a doorstop. I am quite sure I was doing
something wrong, but it was so fussy, I just gave up on it.
gw


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 31-03-2005, 03:35 PM
Dick Adams
 
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Default


"doughwizard" wrote in message =
ups.com...

I think that the possibility here is that this starter may contain
commercial yeast rather than wild yeast cultures ...=20


The Wizard is most astute -- that possibility was also pointed out
by Mrs. Wood:=20

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm...berhighway.net


* * * * *=20

"gw" wrote in message =
...

I could never get ANYWHERE with Carl's, at all....
I like the starter yeast from King Arthur, it's the French sourdough,
one begins with one quarter teaspoon, and refreshes from there ...=20


So, Wizard, there is your answer:

Item # 1039 at http://shop.bakerscatalogue.com/items/

Or you might one of the Wood's cultures at: www.sourdo.com

Among others, they have one they say comes from France.


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