doughwizard (apprentice) wrote:

> That is the thing though I don't want to buy a culture anymore now I
> want to start one. I think that most "starters" that you buy contain
> regular yeast and that explains the fast rising time and dullness of
> flavor seen by most people with the carl starter etc.

Total BS - all your fantasy. That's the second time you come up with
this crap.

http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#450

Carls works fine, if you're doing it right. You're the doofus I was
referring in a previous post recently. Go there, look at the links I posted.

How many folks have gotten it together with Carls, SD international
cultures, self grown, gotten from friends, bakeries etc. all without
"yeast" and you? Assuming things are as you think they should be totally
missing the point.

> I'm going to start my own starter is there anybody here who has done
> this b4.

Well, wake up, that's an old story, done for millenniums. Has anyone
"done it b4"? Give me a break, for crying out loud get some facts!

http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html

(I am not suggesting you try it because I think you will mess it up if
you can't get a regular Carl's going)

> (NOT using any form of dried starter, just flour and water) I
> know it will take awhile but really want to get a good starter going
> that will keep forever. I have baked quite a bit, not worried about
> that at all, just need to get the starter "started".

Well, looks you are even before the first step and making assumptions.

You wanna be a dough wizard? Sure ... if you can't even grow a
purchased/free_as_in_Carls one and find rationalizations why it does not
work and now you want to grow your own - good luck! Just waiting what
else is wrong - maybe the millstones were crooked this time?

Have fun and keep reporting.

Samartha

doughwizard (apprentice) wrote:

> That is the thing though I don't want to buy a culture anymore now I
> want to start one. I think that most "starters" that you buy contain
> regular yeast and that explains the fast rising time and dullness of
> flavor seen by most people with the carl starter etc.

Total BS - all your fantasy. That's the second time you come up with
this crap.

http://samartha.net/SD/docs/DW-post1-4n.html#450

Carls works fine, if you're doing it right. You're the doofus I was
referring in a previous post recently. Go there, look at the links I posted.

How many folks have gotten it together with Carls, SD international
cultures, self grown, gotten from friends, bakeries etc. all without
"yeast" and you? Assuming things are as you think they should be totally
missing the point.

> I'm going to start my own starter is there anybody here who has done
> this b4.

Well, wake up, that's an old story, done for millenniums. Has anyone
"done it b4"? Give me a break, for crying out loud get some facts!

http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html

(I am not suggesting you try it because I think you will mess it up if
you can't get a regular Carl's going)

> (NOT using any form of dried starter, just flour and water) I
> know it will take awhile but really want to get a good starter going
> that will keep forever. I have baked quite a bit, not worried about
> that at all, just need to get the starter "started".

Well, looks you are even before the first step and making assumptions.

You wanna be a dough wizard? Sure ... if you can't even grow a
purchased/free_as_in_Carls one and find rationalizations why it does not
work and now you want to grow your own - good luck! Just waiting what
else is wrong - maybe the millstones were crooked this time?

Have fun and keep reporting.

Samartha

I will try that thanx.

This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not
there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.
Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves
people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was
good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And
obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I
DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had
some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread
in your kitchen not a labratory!

This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not
there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.
Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves
people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was
good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And
obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I
DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had
some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread
in your kitchen not a labratory!

doughwizard wrote:

> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
> much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not
> there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.

That's fine, that's your choice. AND your experience, which is also
fine, BUT that doesn't mean you can extrapolate that to everyone else.

B/

doughwizard wrote:

> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
> much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its not
> there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.

That's fine, that's your choice. AND your experience, which is also
fine, BUT that doesn't mean you can extrapolate that to everyone else.

B/

Doughgenius said:
>AND I
>DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
>SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had

>some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's
bread
>in your kitchen not a labratory!


Mate.....does it make a difference if the bread is made by a baker or a
scientist?
Or its made in a laboratory or in the kitchen....Remember ....A baker
calls his laboratory a kitchen (or in larger scale ) a bakery.... a
food scientist calls his kitchen a laboratory....They are the same
place,although not equally with the same facility but it still an
area where you prepare food<g>.
As long as the item is still an honest to goodness naturally leavened
(traditionally made) bread. it still a wholesome bread and it will
definitely taste good.

You are not alone in your experience.....even seasoned bakers can have
that so called plain tasting bread. occasionally ...but if it happens
all the time their taste buds got jaded that they can no longer see
anything exciting with their own product....Even a normal cook had
that experience...
Another thing is the taste of one person is not the same as another....
If I want to make a distinct tang in my naturally fermented bread with
French Levain I will increase the starter ratio in relation to the
dough flour and it can show a slight difference in taste( in terms of
acidity).
Maybe that is what you want?.
Now ....Story telling time<g>
I had this experience in the bakery recently....I made a sourdough
French bread with French levain.... the customer criticized it and
said the taste is not like what is sold in a bakery from the next
town where she lives which (incidentally I know )specializes on San
Francisco Sourdough.French bread...
I told the customer .....So what ?....there are many version of French
bread....My products sells well ....whether you like it or not....it
does not matter... but anyway....Thank you for your criticism....and
have a nice day.
Therefore....
Please do not let your ego get the better of you....be open minded.
As a beginner....
You cannot learn on something if you had not failed on it one or few
times ... but that is the road to knowledge......always dirty ....never
paved<g>
You will never improve your skill if you are an 'onionskinned' baker.
Keep on practicing... keep on reading...... whether its a dissertation
of sourdough or a simple recipe...you can learn a lot ..... even from
the wisdom of Charles Perrys cat .Ticker<g>
Pease set aside your pride chicken<g> for the time being hmnn?
Roy

Doughgenius said:
>AND I
>DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
>SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had

>some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's
bread
>in your kitchen not a labratory!


Mate.....does it make a difference if the bread is made by a baker or a
scientist?
Or its made in a laboratory or in the kitchen....Remember ....A baker
calls his laboratory a kitchen (or in larger scale ) a bakery.... a
food scientist calls his kitchen a laboratory....They are the same
place,although not equally with the same facility but it still an
area where you prepare food<g>.
As long as the item is still an honest to goodness naturally leavened
(traditionally made) bread. it still a wholesome bread and it will
definitely taste good.

You are not alone in your experience.....even seasoned bakers can have
that so called plain tasting bread. occasionally ...but if it happens
all the time their taste buds got jaded that they can no longer see
anything exciting with their own product....Even a normal cook had
that experience...
Another thing is the taste of one person is not the same as another....
If I want to make a distinct tang in my naturally fermented bread with
French Levain I will increase the starter ratio in relation to the
dough flour and it can show a slight difference in taste( in terms of
acidity).
Maybe that is what you want?.
Now ....Story telling time<g>
I had this experience in the bakery recently....I made a sourdough
French bread with French levain.... the customer criticized it and
said the taste is not like what is sold in a bakery from the next
town where she lives which (incidentally I know )specializes on San
Francisco Sourdough.French bread...
I told the customer .....So what ?....there are many version of French
bread....My products sells well ....whether you like it or not....it
does not matter... but anyway....Thank you for your criticism....and
have a nice day.
Therefore....
Please do not let your ego get the better of you....be open minded.
As a beginner....
You cannot learn on something if you had not failed on it one or few
times ... but that is the road to knowledge......always dirty ....never
paved<g>
You will never improve your skill if you are an 'onionskinned' baker.
Keep on practicing... keep on reading...... whether its a dissertation
of sourdough or a simple recipe...you can learn a lot ..... even from
the wisdom of Charles Perrys cat .Ticker<g>
Pease set aside your pride chicken<g> for the time being hmnn?
Roy

"Roy" > wrote in message oups.com...

> ... Pease set aside your pride chicken <g> for the time being hmnn?

Yeah, you stoopid chicken -- go stand in the corner. Hmnn ...

Well, now ...

Where were we?

Was there something about a wise-ass cat?

Git away, cat -- I can handle this.

Kee---reist!


Yeah, yeah, I know -- no HTML, no graphics.

The cat made me do it.

"doughwizard" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> ... I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE=20
> MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD ( -- )=20
> IS THAT SO HARD (?)

Hey, Billy*, here is your cue. Swoop down here with your streaming cape =

and your Krusteaz tee-shirt. This poor fellow is being sorely abused by
the sourdough hardnoses and intellectual bakers.

In the meantime, work continues on my SD tablet -- just drop it into
a glass of water and, voila, the Poil=E2ne loaf, or what did you want?

--
DickA

_________________
*Repeating Rifle AKA BillyFish AKA FishyBill

"doughwizard" > wrote in message =
oups.com...

> ... I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE=20
> MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT SOURDOUGH BREAD ( -- )=20
> IS THAT SO HARD (?)

Hey, Billy*, here is your cue. Swoop down here with your streaming cape =

and your Krusteaz tee-shirt. This poor fellow is being sorely abused by
the sourdough hardnoses and intellectual bakers.

In the meantime, work continues on my SD tablet -- just drop it into
a glass of water and, voila, the Poil=E2ne loaf, or what did you want?

--
DickA

_________________
*Repeating Rifle AKA BillyFish AKA FishyBill

"doughwizard" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Snip
AND I
> DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
> SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here had
> some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's bread
> in your kitchen not a labratory!
>

When ignorance is bliss............

Graham

doughwizard wrote:
> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
> much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its
not
> there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.
> Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves
> people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was
> good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And
> obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I
> DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
> SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here
had
> some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's
bread
> in your kitchen not a labratory!

Well Doughwizard... welcome to sourdough's nasty little secret: most of
the time it isn't particularly sour. Indeed, many levain cultures
aren't sour at all. In my experience, really sour breads do take a bit
of science to produce. So we won't discuss it. At some point you might
want to know why something did or didn't happen and then of course
science must rear it's ugly head.

Making a starter is easy. You need freshly ground wheat or rye. For
fun, my last starter was made by soaking wheat berries until they were
swollen, letting them bud, but not sprout. Then I mashed the berries in
a mortar and let them ferment. Pretty simple and certainly not much
science to it. The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a
water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain.
The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do
with white flour. So it will be worth the effort to run rye or wheat
grain in your blender if necessary. You will need to refresh your
slurry/paste/mash every two days until you see obvious signs of
fermentation. Afterwards treat the fermenting goo like you treat a your
ordinary commercial yeast sponge.

I noticed that you wrote: "all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR
yeast". That isn't particularly true. The next time you bake, using
your regular dough, do one loaf at 500F and another at 350F. Let us
know what you discover.

Will

doughwizard wrote:
> This is why I no longer want to use the carl starter. I don't care so
> much about the way the loaf looks but do care about flavor and its
not
> there with that starter which was why I posted in the first place.
> Everyone I know devours my yeast bread, but when I made the loaves
> people were like 'this is sourdough it doesn't taste like it." It was
> good for regular bread, but it didn't have any flavor at all. And
> obviously, all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR yeast...AND I
> DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH A BUNCH OF SCIENCE MUMBO-JUMBO I JUST WANT
> SOURDOUGH BREAD IS THAT SO HARD. One of the links I looked at here
had
> some kind of doctor dissertation or WHATEVER! Come on people it's
bread
> in your kitchen not a labratory!

Well Doughwizard... welcome to sourdough's nasty little secret: most of
the time it isn't particularly sour. Indeed, many levain cultures
aren't sour at all. In my experience, really sour breads do take a bit
of science to produce. So we won't discuss it. At some point you might
want to know why something did or didn't happen and then of course
science must rear it's ugly head.

Making a starter is easy. You need freshly ground wheat or rye. For
fun, my last starter was made by soaking wheat berries until they were
swollen, letting them bud, but not sprout. Then I mashed the berries in
a mortar and let them ferment. Pretty simple and certainly not much
science to it. The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a
water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain.
The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do
with white flour. So it will be worth the effort to run rye or wheat
grain in your blender if necessary. You will need to refresh your
slurry/paste/mash every two days until you see obvious signs of
fermentation. Afterwards treat the fermenting goo like you treat a your
ordinary commercial yeast sponge.

I noticed that you wrote: "all flavor in bread comes from a starter OR
yeast". That isn't particularly true. The next time you bake, using
your regular dough, do one loaf at 500F and another at 350F. Let us
know what you discover.

Will

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote:


>
>Making a starter is easy.

snip.

>It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over
the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never
had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various
recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor
and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek.

I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend,
including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white
starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish.
The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/
white, anadama and oatmeal loaves.

My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely,
but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us
has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea
that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may
yield great starters, but are not the only way to go.


Boron

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote:


>
>Making a starter is easy.

snip.

>It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over
the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never
had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various
recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor
and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek.

I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend,
including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white
starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish.
The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/
white, anadama and oatmeal loaves.

My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely,
but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us
has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea
that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may
yield great starters, but are not the only way to go.


Boron

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will" >
wrote:


>
>Making a starter is easy.

snip.

>It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Sir, I beg to differ. I have created many white flour starters over
the years. There is nothing to it. I have used KA or Heckers and never
had much trouble. Active, flexible in and adaptable to various
recipes/ rises/retards and yielding breads with well developed flavor
and to the degree or lack of sourness I seek.

I made 7 loaves of bread with various starters over the weekend,
including a (Jewish style) rye bread recipe that began with a white
starter that I fed rye for 2 refreshments before I started my poolish.
The other 5 loaves were pure white starter & went into semolina/
white, anadama and oatmeal loaves.

My only real rye starter is kept for a specific recipe I use rarely,
but am fond of. I have never kept a whole wheat starter. Each of us
has our favorites, I am sure, but do not scare anyone with the idea
that budded or freshly ground wheat berries are required. They may
yield great starters, but are not the only way to go.


Boron

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote:

>The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a
>water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain.
>The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Hi Will,

This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
have assisted.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote:

>The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a
>water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain.
>The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Hi Will,

This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
have assisted.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On 7 Apr 2005 09:40:06 -0700, "Will"
> wrote:

>The trick, whether you use a water-flour slurry, a
>water-flour paste, mashed berries, whatever... is to use fresh grain.
>The older the flour, the harder it is. It is close to impossible to do
>with white flour.

Hi Will,

This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
have assisted.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Boron,

This is truly news to me...

Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
and water?

Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?

I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could
dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
an existing one.

If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.

Will

Boron,

This is truly news to me...

Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
and water?

Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?

I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could
dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
an existing one.

If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.

Will

Kenneth wrote:

> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
> have assisted.
>
> All the best,

Kenneth,

I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
give it another go.

Will

Kenneth wrote:

> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
> have assisted.
>
> All the best,

Kenneth,

I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
give it another go.

Will

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote:

>If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
>water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

PMJI, but "yes."

I have made many starters from commercial white flour
(usually KA-AP) and water for many years.

I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside
at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and
refresh.

After 2-3 days, I have a starter.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote:

>If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
>water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

PMJI, but "yes."

I have made many starters from commercial white flour
(usually KA-AP) and water for many years.

I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside
at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and
refresh.

After 2-3 days, I have a starter.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will
> wrote:

>If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
>water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

PMJI, but "yes."

I have made many starters from commercial white flour
(usually KA-AP) and water for many years.

I just mix up a small amount at 100%, cover it, put it aside
at about 80F, and wait 24 hours. I then toss half, and
refresh.

After 2-3 days, I have a starter.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:07:09 -0500, Will
> wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>
>> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
>> have assisted.
>>
>> All the best,
>
>Kenneth,
>
>I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
>done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
>discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
>give it another go.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

I am not saying that it works "better." Just that it works.

I will also add that some of the most delicious breads I
have ever made came from a technique described in the
Billheux et. al. book called "Special and Decorative
Breads." (It is, BTW, the book from which many more popular
baking books are stolen.)

In it, the authors describe a four day process using flour,
water, and salt only. (Of course, there are critters in the
flour, but those are not listed as an ingredient.)

They start with a mix of a small amount of flour and water,
ferment, refresh, repeat, building each time until on the
fourth day, the loaf is baked.

Every time I tried it, the loaves looked terrible, but
tasted great.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:07:09 -0500, Will
> wrote:

>Kenneth wrote:
>
>> This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
>> have assisted.
>>
>> All the best,
>
>Kenneth,
>
>I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
>done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
>discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
>give it another go.
>
>Will

Hi Will,

I am not saying that it works "better." Just that it works.

I will also add that some of the most delicious breads I
have ever made came from a technique described in the
Billheux et. al. book called "Special and Decorative
Breads." (It is, BTW, the book from which many more popular
baking books are stolen.)

In it, the authors describe a four day process using flour,
water, and salt only. (Of course, there are critters in the
flour, but those are not listed as an ingredient.)

They start with a mix of a small amount of flour and water,
ferment, refresh, repeat, building each time until on the
fourth day, the loaf is baked.

Every time I tried it, the loaves looked terrible, but
tasted great.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Well, well, well...

I guess the mystery is gone for good now.

Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed
everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can
do this.

Will

Well, well, well...

I guess the mystery is gone for good now.

Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed
everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can
do this.

Will

"Will" > wrote in message
news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
> Boron,
>
> This is truly news to me...
>
> Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
> and water?
>
> Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?
>
> I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
> really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I
> could
> dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
> grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
> an existing one.
>
> If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
> water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
> Will
>

I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with
white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's
pretty benign here) and a little time.

"Will" > wrote in message
news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
> Boron,
>
> This is truly news to me...
>
> Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
> and water?
>
> Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?
>
> I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
> really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I
> could
> dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
> grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
> an existing one.
>
> If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
> water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
> Will
>

I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with
white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's
pretty benign here) and a little time.

"Will" > wrote in message
news:mailman.34.1112900106.218.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
> Boron,
>
> This is truly news to me...
>
> Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
> and water?
>
> Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?
>
> I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
> really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I
> could
> dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
> grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
> an existing one.
>
> If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
> water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
> Will
>

I have several starters in the fridge, and all but one was started with
white flour. Nothing but flour, water (and I use tap water, apparently it's
pretty benign here) and a little time.

Will wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>>This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
>>have assisted.
>>
>>All the best,
>
>
> Kenneth,
>
> I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
> done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
> discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
> give it another go.
>
> Will
>
noobie chiming in- my first starter was with white flour, some generic
brand, and it works great.

Dan w

Will wrote:
> Kenneth wrote:
>
>
>>This is certainly not my experience nor that of many folks I
>>have assisted.
>>
>>All the best,
>
>
> Kenneth,
>
> I guess I stand corrected. You and Boron are the only folks I know who've
> done this. Perhaps the rest of RFS will come out of the woodwork and we'll
> discover that white flour actually works better. Who knows? I'll certainly
> give it another go.
>
> Will
>
noobie chiming in- my first starter was with white flour, some generic
brand, and it works great.

Dan w

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will >
wrote:

>Boron,
>
>This is truly news to me...
>
>Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
>and water?

Yes.
>
>Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?

Yes.
>
>I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
>really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could
>dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
>grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
>an existing one.
>
>If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
>water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
>Will

Not much technique. I start with half a cup of flour & add water until
it is the consistency of thick better. I let it sit out, covered and
refresh it ever 2 - 3 days at first, then, when it gets going, I
refresh at least once a day until it is established...this can be 2 -3
weeks or more. The trick is knowing when it *is* established. I can
tell from how lively it is & how it smells. And, of course, how happy
it is after it's been through my mixer with a lot of other flour,
water & salt.

By then, after I have used it & it has "proved" itself, I am likely to
toss it into the back of the fridge and forget about it for a long
time, while I am playing with my other starters.

One of the FAQs has all sorts of details about beginning a starter and
verifying its health it simple ways.

ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-gro...dough/starters

Boron

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 13:54:45 -0500, Will >
wrote:

>Boron,
>
>This is truly news to me...
>
>Are you saying you make, that is: initiate, new starters from white flour
>and water?

Yes.
>
>Or are you saying you maintain white flour starters?

Yes.
>
>I certainly don't want to make building a starter more complicated than it
>really is (or isn't). The bud and mash example was a trial to see if I could
>dispense with milling and keep it really simple as in: a handful of
>grain+water. But I am discussing generating a new starter, not maintaining
>an existing one.
>
>If you would confirm that you are making new starters from white flour and
>water, please post the technique and I will certainly give it a go.
>
>Will

Not much technique. I start with half a cup of flour & add water until
it is the consistency of thick better. I let it sit out, covered and
refresh it ever 2 - 3 days at first, then, when it gets going, I
refresh at least once a day until it is established...this can be 2 -3
weeks or more. The trick is knowing when it *is* established. I can
tell from how lively it is & how it smells. And, of course, how happy
it is after it's been through my mixer with a lot of other flour,
water & salt.

By then, after I have used it & it has "proved" itself, I am likely to
toss it into the back of the fridge and forget about it for a long
time, while I am playing with my other starters.

One of the FAQs has all sorts of details about beginning a starter and
verifying its health it simple ways.

ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-gro...dough/starters

Boron

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:32:50 -0500, Will >
wrote:

>Well, well, well...
>
>I guess the mystery is gone for good now.
>
>Doughwizard, I hope you're tuned in. Your innocent rant has changed
>everything for me. Not only am I humbled, I am truly amazed. Any doofus can
>do this.
>
>Will


We are all doofusses on this bus. Not to worry.

I bet your method of making a starter yields something wonderful. I
have a bag or two of Wheat Montana berries around and I'm likely to
give it a try.

I'm down to 7 starters now, what's one more to take care of?

Boron