Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Umstead
 
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Richard wrote:
<Snip>

>
> All the reading I've done makes this sound like rocket science. I have to
> wonder how the Klondikers and Oregon Trailers ever make out.
>
> Thanks for the help and suggestions.
>
> Richard


Yes it is rocket science, if it were so easy man would have made life by
now.

Joe Umstead
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jugito
 
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"Richard" > wrote in
ink.net:

>
> Sorry Kenneth. I'll try to not let that happen again. Nothing like
> scrolling thru a dozen posts to get to the last. So be it. New here so
> can always learn something.
>



As you can see, no scrolling is needed if you delete the stuff before your
own writing. There's no need to quote it. The thread is there for
reference.
  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Will
 
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On 1/18/05 9:29 PM, "Samartha" >
wrote:

> After careful consideration and taken into account possibly getting egged
> on again by some bottom post tight-ass fanactic, top post mode has been
> found adequate for this response.
>

DUCK SAMARTHA....HERE COME THE EGGS!!! <G>

Everywhere I've looked, I've seen posts listed in chronological order, first
to last, usually in tree form. This sequencing seems very intuitive. I am
curious why this top vs. bottom posting issue has some undies in knots.

It has been my observation that most of the RFS list participants "bottom"
post.

If I might offer a suggestion...

Dick Adams, in my opinion, has the best posting style in this group. He
trims precisely and economically. The placement of his comments RELATIVE to
the thread portions he RETAINS are immediately adjacent to the subject(s) at
hand.

Perhaps we could adopt a "best practices" approach.

Will




  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Samartha wrote:

> At 07:57 PM 1/18/2005, you wrote:
>>Richard wrote:
>>[..]
>>Sounds like (a) was the way to go then. Although after all this time I
>>wonder also if you just haven't caught your local wild strains.

>
> Considering the fact that relatively quick souring happened without a
> shakeout (abundant growth and stink) I would discount this possibility.


I suppose true enough.... there must have been something left alive in
there. I still wouldn't be surprised that after 3 or so days of fussing
he'd contaminated it.

B/
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Will wrote:

> Perhaps we could adopt a "best practices" approach.


The point is that while many converse on a 1:1 level, the system was
designed as a 1:many medium. That's the parameter to use, and
everything else should fall into place from that.

When someone writes "I find it's easier for me..." they're missing the
point. They aren't posting for themselves but for others, and what's
easiest for others to read and comprehend.

B/


  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Richard
 
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"Samartha" > wrote in message
news:mailman.1106105831.7501.rec.food.sourdough@ww w.mountainbitwarrior.com..
..

> Now, if you see some activity and it decreases in any way, feed again. My
> idea - without seeing it would be to triple the flour content, possibly
> reducing it before to keep the total volume down. Once you see activity
> rising again after a couple of hours, you may have something more solid,
> give it some time to really get going, then feed it once more, let it

start
> and put it in the fridge or make bread.


So no I have 3 starts going. All under (a). All are shoing bubbles, an
increase in size and a slight sour/paste smell. I've done (a) to these twice
now.
Will using triple the amount of flour slow it down? How will it effect the
soureness?

> Once you have that, it makes sense to dry it for preservation. With your
> case "b" products, I don't think, it would be prudent.


I thru (b) out and am done with it.
Is it best to use a thick or thinner starter to dry?

> For you getting the "sour smell", could it be that at that point it is
> already very advanced and oversoured? If this appears to be the case,
> earlier refreshments could be a good thing to do.


I'm keeping a closer eye on it an as my air temps have fallen it appears to
have slowed. I've learned a lot so hopefully things will continue to work.

> Since it got sour fairly quickly, I think you can be pretty sure you got
> the Carl's going and not some other "growth".


Hope so.

> Maybe looking at the growthcurve could be give some more insights?
>
> http://samartha.net/SD/SourdoughDefinition.html#GC


I'll check it out as soon as I know how to view it.


> I don't think it is rocket science but it can give some insights into how
> organisms work. Since we (science, humanity) know now a lot more than 100
> years ago about all this, it can appear more complicated, but it does not
> have to be.


I can see it being real technical for commerical use but to just fiddle-fart
around it seems like it should be pretty easy to do.

> Hope it all goes well,
>
> Samartha


Thanks

Richard


  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Samartha
 
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Disclaimer: After careful consideration intersperse post mode with deleting
assumed unnecessary parts has been found adequate for this response.

At 06:37 PM 1/19/2005, Rich, you wrote:

>[...]
>Will using triple the amount of flour slow it down? How will it effect the
>soureness?


Yes and no.
On short term, it may slow it down because there will be a short hesitation
for retooling of the critters.

Maybe you can look at the growth curve URL I gave before.

The reason for tripling is to get out of oversouring for sure. Oversouring
will shut it down for good - as you have seen with the "b" branch.

When activity slows down normally with getting so sour that the organisms
slow down and eventually totally shut down and start dying.

So, if you see even a slight slow down, it's time to feed again and so much
that there is enough to go for a while.

To give you more an idea about the factors, please look at the
DM3-calculator on my web page. There is a column "Factor" - this gives the
flour multiplication to the next step, and in other columns you can see
temperature and durations.

The tripling is just a simple formula which works and is not "sourdough
rocket science".

>I thru (b) out and am done with it.


good!

>Is it best to use a thick or thinner starter to dry?


I think thick because the organisms keep growing while you dry all the
humidity out. If I remember right, on Carl's web site, there are
instructions and in the FAQ as well. I have done it only once in the
beginning because I was so afraid I would loose my starter. You can keep a
starter in the fridge for two month, stir in the hooch again (contrary to
many other statements here) and start growing it again.

> > For you getting the "sour smell", could it be that at that point it is
> > already very advanced and oversoured? If this appears to be the case,
> > earlier refreshments could be a good thing to do.

>
>I'm keeping a closer eye on it an as my air temps have fallen it appears to
>have slowed. I've learned a lot so hopefully things will continue to work.


If you have more than one variable, it gets more complicated - lower
temperature slows it down and getting more sour does too - so how do you
know what's the cause and what to do? Better to have some kind of stable
temperature place. Maybe deflating it (stirring the starter) and see if it
still makes more bubbles, although slowed down by lower temperature.


>[..]
>I can see it being real technical for commerical use but to just fiddle-fart
>around it seems like it should be pretty easy to do.


It probably depends how people are structured and how things are best
absorbed and implemented in a particular environment. Sourdough is a living
creature with a whole rats tail of events following until a baked product
comes out of it.

That all runs pretty counter to many corpo/commer/indu/..-ized undertakings
very common these days.

Have fun!

Samartha





remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Adams
 
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"Richard" > said about

> > http://samartha.net/SD/SourdoughDefinition.html#GC


> I'll check it out as soon as I know how to view it.


Well, you put your cursor on it, and then you press down
the left button on your mouse.

I guess you know that you move the cursor by moving
the mouse along the surface on which it rests.

When you thus place the cursor in the right place, it
magically turns into a little hand with an extended fore-
finger, which is its way of telling you it has found an
active link, and that the system is ready for you to=20
press the left mouse button.

Then, in a short amount of time, you should see the
graphic that Samartha thinks you should look at.

I know all of this because I am using the same news-
reader as you are.

Actually, I am not sure how much good looking at=20
the growth curve is going to do in this case.

--
DickA

  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Richard
 
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I have no problem using the mouse and curser here. It's viewing the images
when I get to the site. I changed browsers to Firefox and it works fine.

Richard

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
news
"Richard" > said about

> > http://samartha.net/SD/SourdoughDefinition.html#GC


> I'll check it out as soon as I know how to view it.


Well, you put your cursor on it, and then you press down
the left button on your mouse.

I guess you know that you move the cursor by moving
the mouse along the surface on which it rests.

When you thus place the cursor in the right place, it
magically turns into a little hand with an extended fore-
finger, which is its way of telling you it has found an
active link, and that the system is ready for you to
press the left mouse button.

Then, in a short amount of time, you should see the
graphic that Samartha thinks you should look at.

I know all of this because I am using the same news-
reader as you are.

Actually, I am not sure how much good looking at
the growth curve is going to do in this case.

--
DickA


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