Well, I've got a couple of nice ceramic oven-safe loaf pans, the rye-grown
starter is waking up, and tomorrow I'll make some rye meal. What kind of
amount of meal will I need? Couldn't find any measures amongst all the
information on Samartha's site, except for a German recipe that involved
tens of kilos. How much rye meal and water will fill a couple of largish
loaf pans, once mixed, soaked, fermented, etc?
This is important; a lady friend will bring herself and bock beer for the
testing...


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

Gary,

Maybe this can help you: The last PN's I did (with new pans) had 2100 g
dough per 2000 ml pan and I decided to reduce this by 10 % because it was
too full.

So, 95 % of water volume weight as dought weight should work.

If you have the volume you want, deduct 10 % and plug it into my sourdough
calculator and you should get the dough/water/starter/salt weights.

Samartha


At 06:07 PM 11/26/2004, you wrote:
>Well, I've got a couple of nice ceramic oven-safe loaf pans, the rye-grown
>starter is waking up, and tomorrow I'll make some rye meal. What kind of
>amount of meal will I need? Couldn't find any measures amongst all the
>information on Samartha's site, except for a German recipe that involved
>tens of kilos. How much rye meal and water will fill a couple of largish
>loaf pans, once mixed, soaked, fermented, etc?
>This is important; a lady friend will bring herself and bock beer for the
>testing...
>
>
>Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
>Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
>_______________________________________________
>Rec.food.sourdough mailing list



remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Gary,

Maybe this can help you: The last PN's I did (with new pans) had 2100 g
dough per 2000 ml pan and I decided to reduce this by 10 % because it was
too full.

So, 95 % of water volume weight as dought weight should work.

If you have the volume you want, deduct 10 % and plug it into my sourdough
calculator and you should get the dough/water/starter/salt weights.

Samartha


At 06:07 PM 11/26/2004, you wrote:
>Well, I've got a couple of nice ceramic oven-safe loaf pans, the rye-grown
>starter is waking up, and tomorrow I'll make some rye meal. What kind of
>amount of meal will I need? Couldn't find any measures amongst all the
>information on Samartha's site, except for a German recipe that involved
>tens of kilos. How much rye meal and water will fill a couple of largish
>loaf pans, once mixed, soaked, fermented, etc?
>This is important; a lady friend will bring herself and bock beer for the
>testing...
>
>
>Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
>Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
>_______________________________________________
>Rec.food.sourdough mailing list



remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

Samartha > wrote:

>If you have the volume you want, deduct 10 % and plug it into my sourdough
>calculator and you should get the dough/water/starter/salt weights.

Done!

And a semi-dumb followup: I don't have a mixer with enough testosterone
for dough, so I mix/knead by hand. Not so bad, and I can use some excess
energy in a socially acceptable way. With rye flour, you're not really
developing gluten are you? So the objective is just to get the ingredients
thoroughly mixed?
The starter was pretty soupy and foaming nicely, so I put in some more of
the rye flour I made a few days ago and put it back in the "proofing box."
I'll grind the prescribed weight of rye shortly, and mix the ingredients.
In an odd way, my unexpected bachelorhood is a bonus: Nobody will complain
about what I'm doing to the kitchen!

Peace,


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

At 10:29 AM 11/27/2004, Gary wrote:
>Samartha > wrote:
>
> >If you have the volume you want, deduct 10 % and plug it into my sourdough
> >calculator and you should get the dough/water/starter/salt weights.
>
>Done!
>
>And a semi-dumb followup: I don't have a mixer with enough testosterone
>for dough, so I mix/knead by hand. Not so bad, and I can use some excess
>energy in a socially acceptable way. With rye flour, you're not really
>developing gluten are you? So the objective is just to get the ingredients
>thoroughly mixed?

For Pumpernickles probably fine - the dough is (MYEXP.) very soft, so with
additional fermenting time and long low temp baking, there is no problem
with absorbing time.

With rye mix breads, that's one question I have not yet resolved: Rye water
absorbing capacity and speed.

Currently - not Pumpernickel - I use 2/3 of all dough water, mix with the
starter first foamy, then all rye and let it sit for 5 minutes, then mix
the white wheat flour and let it autolize (sp?) more before kneading.

I picked up a snipped from Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book about an apparently
race condition between rye and wheat in water absorption and it's good to
give rye a head start. But what I remember is that the folks writing this
book were not so great with sourdough - so, verification from other sources
appears adequate.

If there is enough water for both - rye and wheat, why would the timing matter?
Possibly, if one takes longer than the other, give it more time so both are
ready at the same time. But with 4 hours fermentation, do 10 minutes
matter? Maybe when kneading follows?

Well, reason for more exploration.

One thing is for sure that the rye can pick up significantly more water
with scalding and that changes crumb structure.

Samartha



_
>Rec.food.sourdough mailing list


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On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:09:35 -0700, Samartha
> wrote:

>One thing is for sure that the rye can pick up significantly more water
>with scalding and that changes crumb structure.
>
>Samartha

Hi Samartha,

I have not experimented with the scalding at all... Can you
please say more about the change in the crumb?

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 14:09:35 -0700, Samartha
> wrote:

>One thing is for sure that the rye can pick up significantly more water
>with scalding and that changes crumb structure.
>
>Samartha

Hi Samartha,

I have not experimented with the scalding at all... Can you
please say more about the change in the crumb?

Thanks,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth,
well, I just discovered it's beauty (scalding). In general, the crumb is
more elastic/moist and the taste appears milder (unconfirmed). That's with
my standard 50/50 rye mix bread and just the rye addition being scalded
(first time). It's yet another variable.

Many so-called "Vollkorn" (German: contains whole grain kernels) breads
something like that:

http://www.liekenurkorn.de/das_sorti...lkornsonne.htm
(full grain sun - sunflower seeds, probably)
http://www.liekenurkorn.de/das_sorti...losterbrot.htm
(monastery bread)
http://www.liekenurkorn.de/das_sorti...ornsaftige.htm
(full grain juicy)
http://www.liekenurkorn.de/das_sorti...kraftklotz.htm
(power block)
- all natural sourdough breads, btw. and Urkorn = primal grain

Those are probably using scalding or soaking to get the moistness and taste
with the full kernels used. But this are industrialized breads;
nevertheless excellent but probably a major project to achieve as a home
baker.

Bordinsky bread has scalded rye and malt fermented with all the dough water
in the scald as preferment stage which gives very high entertainment value!

Bordinsky style bread differs from a 100 % or 90 % FG rye also in crumb
elasticity, taste properties unconsidered.

Just try it && see what happens. Seems scalding is more suitable with
either full grain kernels or rye (unconfirmed). I would imagine that white
wheat flour could turn into useless glue/porridge (unconfirmed).

Samartha

At 02:16 PM 11/27/2004, you wrote:

>Hi Samartha,
>
>I have not experimented with the scalding at all... Can you
>please say more about the change in the crumb?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>
>If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
>_______________________________________________
>Rec.food.sourdough mailing list


remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 20:33:06 -0700, Samartha
> wrote:

>Just try it && see what happens. Seems scalding is more suitable with
>either full grain kernels or rye (unconfirmed). I would imagine that white
>wheat flour could turn into useless glue/porridge (unconfirmed).
>
>Samartha

Hi,

I certainly will give it a try, and I thank you,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."