Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 01-03-2021, 12:02 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust


Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

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Old 01-03-2021, 05:06 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:09 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.



Are these levains mixed for each bake and based on a mother starter,
so that the mother starter is kept at 60%? Or are these levains
started with a bit of commercial yeast? I have seen both types
referenced.

I bet the hydration of the final dough and the length of proof have
some influence on it, too.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:26 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Posts: 3,251
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.


A bit of clarification and questioning, too... I always thought lower
hydration makes a starter produce more acetic acid, so the final
product is tangier.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:08 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Posts: 5,541
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On 2021-03-01 12:26 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.


A bit of clarification and questioning, too... I always thought lower
hydration makes a starter produce more acetic acid, so the final
product is tangier.

I follow the French style and use low hydration starters and mix to ~70%
and the sour note is very muted or absent.


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Old 01-03-2021, 11:24 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Posts: 5,541
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On 2021-03-01 12:09 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.



Are these levains mixed for each bake and based on a mother starter,
so that the mother starter is kept at 60%? Or are these levains
started with a bit of commercial yeast? I have seen both types
referenced.

I bet the hydration of the final dough and the length of proof have
some influence on it, too.

I certainly think the length of proof has an influence on the "tang".
AIUI, the French use lower hydrations as their flour is softer. A
Belgian baker set up in Calgary some years ago and he told me he had a
helluva job adjusting his recipes to Alberta flour. He told me that he
had to add a lot more water than he had in Belgium with the softer flours.
It used to be that the standard, and government mandated, recipe for
bread in France was 100:60:2:2 in bakers' percentages.
I'm not sure about whether it is standard practice in France to add
yeast to their pain au levain. However, there is a video of a baker in
the Poilâne basement preparing the dough for the famous miche and he
adds yeast.
I'll have to get the Appolonia Poilâne book from the library because I
think the recipe she quotes has yeast. I'll have to see if Calvel has
anything on the subject.
Dammit, there is so much folklore involving SD!!
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Old 02-03-2021, 12:15 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,251
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:24:23 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-03-01 12:09 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.



Are these levains mixed for each bake and based on a mother starter,
so that the mother starter is kept at 60%? Or are these levains
started with a bit of commercial yeast? I have seen both types
referenced.

I bet the hydration of the final dough and the length of proof have
some influence on it, too.

I certainly think the length of proof has an influence on the "tang".
AIUI, the French use lower hydrations as their flour is softer. A
Belgian baker set up in Calgary some years ago and he told me he had a
helluva job adjusting his recipes to Alberta flour. He told me that he
had to add a lot more water than he had in Belgium with the softer flours.
It used to be that the standard, and government mandated, recipe for
bread in France was 100:60:2:2 in bakers' percentages.
I'm not sure about whether it is standard practice in France to add
yeast to their pain au levain. However, there is a video of a baker in
the Poilne basement preparing the dough for the famous miche and he
adds yeast.
I'll have to get the Appolonia Poilne book from the library because I
think the recipe she quotes has yeast. I'll have to see if Calvel has
anything on the subject.


Dammit, there is so much folklore involving SD!!


I've no compunctions about tossing in a bit of yeast if I think there
is some reason for it. One of my favorite deli ryes sometimes gets a
sprinkle, as I do not always have a blossoming rye starter if I decide
I want to make some the next day or so.

I have not opened my Clavel in so many years, I am not even sure where
it is now. I wonder if I even have it.....
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Old 02-03-2021, 01:37 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,541
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On 2021-03-01 5:15 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:24:23 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-03-01 12:09 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.


Are these levains mixed for each bake and based on a mother starter,
so that the mother starter is kept at 60%? Or are these levains
started with a bit of commercial yeast? I have seen both types
referenced.

I bet the hydration of the final dough and the length of proof have
some influence on it, too.

I certainly think the length of proof has an influence on the "tang".
AIUI, the French use lower hydrations as their flour is softer. A
Belgian baker set up in Calgary some years ago and he told me he had a
helluva job adjusting his recipes to Alberta flour. He told me that he
had to add a lot more water than he had in Belgium with the softer flours.
It used to be that the standard, and government mandated, recipe for
bread in France was 100:60:2:2 in bakers' percentages.
I'm not sure about whether it is standard practice in France to add
yeast to their pain au levain. However, there is a video of a baker in
the Poilâne basement preparing the dough for the famous miche and he
adds yeast.
I'll have to get the Appolonia Poilâne book from the library because I
think the recipe she quotes has yeast. I'll have to see if Calvel has
anything on the subject.


Dammit, there is so much folklore involving SD!!


I've no compunctions about tossing in a bit of yeast if I think there
is some reason for it. One of my favorite deli ryes sometimes gets a
sprinkle, as I do not always have a blossoming rye starter if I decide
I want to make some the next day or so.

I have not opened my Clavel in so many years, I am not even sure where
it is now. I wonder if I even have it.....

Here is my review of Appolonia Poilâne's book from the local library
website:

"If you are a keen bread baker then theres not that much here for you.
Indeed, the 1, 2 and 3 star reviews at Amazon pretty well summarize its
shortcomings, even though it is an attractive volume.

There are only 6 bread recipes (2 "SD", 2 rye, pain de mie and brioche)
3 gluten free loaves, some cake and pie recipes and, it seems, a lot for
dishes using bread or breadcrumbs. The recipe for the famous "Punition"
cookie is given and there are instructions on how to make cultured butter.

The recipe for the famous miche starts with making the levain with some
yoghurt in the recipe and then puts yeast in the final mix. This despite
the fact that Appolonia has stated elsewhere that it is a naturally
leavened bread.

I have eaten the walnut bread from the London branch and I have tried to
duplicate it without much success. Here she gives the proportion of nuts
to the standard dough so that might prove helpful. However, the walnut
loaves that I bought appear to have contained a much higher proportion
of nuts."

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Old 02-03-2021, 01:39 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,541
Default Interesting Take on Blistered Crust

On 2021-03-01 6:37 p.m., Graham wrote:
On 2021-03-01 5:15 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Mon, 1 Mar 2021 16:24:23 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-03-01 12:09 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2021 22:06:02 -0700, Graham wrote:

On 2021-02-28 5:02 p.m., Boron Elgar wrote:

Ran into this online about sourdough blistering. Now I get to poke
around and see if it makes sense.

"This is because acidic conditions created by sourdough breaks down
the gluten near the surface. As the bread bakes, steam is created and
it escapes through mini-chimneys all throughout the crust where the
gluten has been weakened. Those mini-chimneys end up looking like
blisters."

https://wheatbeat.com/blisters/

My teachers at the local Alliance Française told me that they did not
like N.American style sourdough. The French equivalent, pain uu
levain,
has a more subtle flavour, probably because the levain is kept at ~60%
hydration rather than the 100% hydration typical of sourdoughs. ISTR
that the high hydration favours the acid.
Therefore French boulangers see the blisters as a fault.


Are these levains mixed for each bake and based on a mother starter,
so that the mother starter is kept at 60%? Or are these levains
started with a bit of commercial yeast? I have seen both types
referenced.

I bet the hydration of the final dough and the length of proof have
some influence on it, too.

I certainly think the length of proof has an influence on the "tang".
AIUI, the French use lower hydrations as their flour is softer. A
Belgian baker set up in Calgary some years ago and he told me he had a
helluva job adjusting his recipes to Alberta flour. He told me that he
had to add a lot more water than he had in Belgium with the softer
flours.
It used to be that the standard, and government mandated, recipe for
bread in France was 100:60:2:2 in bakers' percentages.
I'm not sure about whether it is standard practice in France to add
yeast to their pain au levain. However, there is a video of a baker in
the Poilâne basement preparing the dough for the famous miche and he
adds yeast.
I'll have to get the Appolonia Poilâne book from the library because I
think the recipe she quotes has yeast. I'll have to see if Calvel has
anything on the subject.


Dammit, there is so much folklore involving SD!!


I've no compunctions about tossing in a bit of yeast if I think there
is some reason for it. One of my favorite deli ryes sometimes gets a
sprinkle, as I do not always have a blossoming rye starter if I decide
I want to make some the next day or so.

I have not opened my Clavel in so many years, I am not even sure where
it is now. I wonder if I even have it.....

Here is my review of Appolonia Poilâne's book from the local library
website:

"If you are a keen bread baker then theres not that much here for you.
Indeed, the 1, 2 and 3 star reviews at Amazon pretty well summarize its
shortcomings, even though it is an attractive volume.

There are only 6 bread recipes (2 "SD", 2 rye, pain de mie and brioche)
3 gluten free loaves, some cake and pie recipes and, it seems, a lot for
dishes using bread or breadcrumbs. The recipe for the famous "Punition"
cookie is given and there are instructions on how to make cultured butter.

The recipe for the famous miche starts with making the levain with some
yoghurt in the recipe and then puts yeast in the final mix. This despite
the fact that Appolonia has stated elsewhere that it is a naturally
leavened bread.

I have eaten the walnut bread from the London branch and I have tried to
duplicate it without much success. Here she gives the proportion of nuts
to the standard dough so that might prove helpful. However, the walnut
loaves that I bought appear to have contained a much higher proportion
of nuts."

BTW the title of the book is: Poilâne
The Secrets of the World-famous Bread Bakery


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