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Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
Howdy..
So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes. Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record. Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want. I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg Help? Thanks.... |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
"droopus" > wrote in message ... Howdy.. So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes. Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record. Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want. I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg Help? Thanks.... ------------------------------------------ Judging from the pictures, your dough looks lumpy and I doubt it would have passed the window pane test. To me, it seems that you didn't knead it enough for the gluten to have developed properly. Graham |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
On Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:54:41 -0700 (PDT), droopus >
wrote: >Howdy.. > >So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. > >So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: > >Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg > > >It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes. > >Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg > > >Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. > >After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg > > >Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record. > >Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg > >The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want. > >I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. > >http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg > >Help? > >Thanks.... Quick reply - not enough gluten development, overproofed, undershaped. Any and all of these could contribute to it- a small error in each of these could lead to a cascade of events and collapse. Boron |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
In article >,
droopus > wrote: > Howdy.. > > So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results > using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. > > So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: > > Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. > http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg > > > It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at > 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 > tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for > about 6 minutes. > > Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg > > > Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. > > After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg > > > Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the > record. > > Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg > > The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly > not the result I want. > > I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for > it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, > salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and > then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. > > http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg > > Help? > > Thanks.... Assuming the same process has worked in the past, what's changed? Most likely culprit would be your water: chlorination, pH, and hardness all can have some effect on your bread. As an experiment, you could try the same recipe using bottled water, just to eliminate the possibility of your municipal waterworks messing you up. One problem is that it isn't possible to determine the percent hydration from the information you provided, since we don't know the hydration or weight of your cup of culture. It's convenient, for me, to keep my culture at 100 percent hydration, and to weigh culture, flour, and water when I'm making bread so that I can get exactly the hydration I'm aiming for - I'm not expert enough to observe/handle dough and tell what it needs more of, except in the most extreme cases. |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
On Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:54:41 -0700 (PDT), droopus >
wrote: >Howdy.. > >So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. > >So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: > >Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg > > >It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes. > >Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg > > >Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. > >After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg > > >Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record. > >Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg > >The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want. > >I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. > >http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg > >Help? > >Thanks.... Maybe the flour has a lower gluten content. I sometimes have this problem across different batches of the same brand flour. (I live in another country, so brand names would not help you). Dough looks under-kneaded, and maybe a bit dry. Kneading is not very important if dough has a high hydration-level. Sourdough eats up the gluten. If you have already lowered the gluten percentile by adding oats etc, any over-proofing is going to lead to failure. Do the finger test. Prod the dough. If it springs back quickly, wait, if it doesn't spring back at all, it's over the hill. Somewhere in between is good. PS Nice pics HTH -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
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Dough falling apart at loaf proof - why? (W/pics...)
On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 9:54:41 PM UTC-7, droopus wrote:
> Howdy.. > > > > So all of a sudden I'm getting dough that falls apart. These pics are results using Griffith's 1847 Oregon Trail culture. > > > > So last week I could tell a loaf was going to crash, so here are the pics: > > > > Here is the dough after a 30 minute rest after overnight proofing at 76F. http://imgur.com/c877E0j.jpg > > > > > > It's 1.5 cups warm H2O, 1 cup of culture that had been proofed for 8 hours at 82F, 595 grams KAF blue bag bread flour, a handful of oats and flax seeds, 2 tsp salt. Autolyzed about 30 minutes, then kneaded with a Kitchen Aid for about 6 minutes. > > > > Here is the loaf after 90 minutes at 75F. http://imgur.com/k56QBV5.jpg > > > > > > Pretty easy to see the dough is coming apart. It rose, but not very much. > > > > After three hours: http://imgur.com/YRZNjIk.jpg > > > > > > Very little change. I would have dumped this but decided to bake it for the record. > > > > Baked: http://imgur.com/51Whb6V.jpg > > > > The crust looks quite nice, and it actually tastes interesting, but clearly not the result I want. > > > > I sent that off to Ed Wood, who said I was adding too much to the dough for it to hold together, which sounds reasonable. So, same culture, water, flour, salt, and this is what I end up with after a seemingly good dough proof, and then 1.5 hours into a loaf proof at 77F. > > > > http://i.imgur.com/D6LFikb.jpg > > > > Help? > > > > Thanks.... Your long proof is WAY too warm. If you are going to do an overnight proof it wants to be below 50°F. Read Hamelman's guidance in "Bread" |
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