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Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
I am new here but would like to ask a question:
I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. Thanks Maj6th |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:02:32 +1100, Van Bakel >
wrote: >On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 06:10:09 -0800, Mr Maj6th > >wrote: > >>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >> >> >>I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >>flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >>*******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They >>both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >>and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They >>both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >>time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >>keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >>characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >>commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >>with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >>environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >> >>My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >>researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >>different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. > >Sourness is a function of time. If you add more time to the stages of >your sourdough making, you get a more sour tasting bread. Please give me an example of what you mean, are you speaking about the starter or the baking process? Thanks Maj6th |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message ... >I am new here but would like to ask a question: > > > I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white > flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a > *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They > both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, > and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They > both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising > time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am > keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the > characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use > commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done > with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on > environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. > > My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively > researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a > different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. > > Thanks > Maj6th > Try this: http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html or this: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote:
> >"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message .. . >>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >> >> >> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They >> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They >> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >> >> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. >> >> Thanks >> Maj6th >> >Try this: >http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html > >or this: >http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm > Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final sour taste? Thanks for the links! Maj6th |
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"Sour" taste'
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:47:40 -0800, Mr Maj6th >
wrote: >On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote: > >> >>"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message . .. >>>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >>> >>> >>> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >>> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >>> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They >>> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >>> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They >>> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >>> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >>> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >>> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >>> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >>> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >>> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >>> >>> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >>> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >>> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Maj6th >>> >>Try this: >>http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html >> >>or this: >>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm >> >Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) >in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final >sour taste? > >Thanks for the links! > >Maj6th It might also be that the total process itself determines the sourness, not one particular step. If this is the case (and I suspect it is,) which step contributes the most. Maj6th |
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"Sour" taste'
"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message ... > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:47:40 -0800, Mr Maj6th > > wrote: > >>On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote: >> >>> >>>"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message ... >>>>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >>>> >>>> >>>> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >>>> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >>>> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They >>>> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >>>> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They >>>> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >>>> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >>>> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >>>> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >>>> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >>>> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >>>> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >>>> >>>> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >>>> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >>>> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Maj6th >>>> >>>Try this: >>>http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html >>> >>>or this: >>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm >>> >>Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) >>in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final >>sour taste? >> >>Thanks for the links! >> >>Maj6th > > It might also be that the total process itself determines the > sourness, not one particular step. If this is the case (and I suspect > it is,) which step contributes the most. > AIUI, retarding the dough, i.e., a long, slow fermentation at a cooler temp. I don't do this as I prefer the French style pain au levain which does not have that obvious sourness. |
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"Sour" taste'
On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 11:00:43 -0700, "graham" > wrote:
> >"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message .. . >> On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:47:40 -0800, Mr Maj6th > >> wrote: >> >>>On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message m... >>>>>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >>>>> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >>>>> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. They >>>>> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >>>>> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. They >>>>> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >>>>> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >>>>> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >>>>> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >>>>> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >>>>> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >>>>> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >>>>> >>>>> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >>>>> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >>>>> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Maj6th >>>>> >>>>Try this: >>>>http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html >>>> >>>>or this: >>>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm >>>> >>>Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) >>>in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final >>>sour taste? >>> >>>Thanks for the links! >>> >>>Maj6th >> >> It might also be that the total process itself determines the >> sourness, not one particular step. If this is the case (and I suspect >> it is,) which step contributes the most. >> >AIUI, retarding the dough, i.e., a long, slow fermentation at a cooler temp. >I don't do this as I prefer the French style pain au levain which does not >have that obvious sourness. > Thank to everyone for your help; it has been extremely insightful for me in seeing the larger picture. Maj6th |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
"graham" wrote in message ...
> > > "Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message > ... > > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:47:40 -0800, Mr Maj6th > > > wrote: > > > >>On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote: > >> > >>> "Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message > ... > >>>>I am new here but would like to ask a question: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white > >>>> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a > >>>> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. > >>>> They > >>>> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, > >>>> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. > >>>> They > >>>> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising > >>>> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am > >>>> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the > >>>> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use > >>>> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done > >>>> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on > >>>> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. > >>>> > >>>> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively > >>>> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a > >>>> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> Maj6th > >>>> > >>>Try this: > >>>http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html > >>> > >>>or this: > >>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm > >>> > >>Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) > >>in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final > >>sour taste? > >> > >>Thanks for the links! > >> > >>Maj6th > > > > It might also be that the total process itself determines the > > sourness, not one particular step. If this is the case (and I suspect > > it is,) which step contributes the most. > > > AIUI, retarding the dough, i.e., a long, slow fermentation at a cooler > temp. > I don't do this as I prefer the French style pain au levain which does not > have that obvious sourness. Well said, Graham. I was just about to reply to 'Maj6th' clarifying that. While the nature of your starter, some are more sour than others; the type and kind of flour you use, Rye makes more sour than a light-wheat AP; the real secret to sour bread is for a long, cool final rise. Like Graham, I prefer my SD more in the European style, not so sour. However, there is a time and a place for some wonderful, very sour San Francisco style bread as well. 'Maj6th', you can use my Poilne recipe: http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...gh/poilane.htm. Note especially the last step on "Day 2". Put your dough in the fridge and let it sit overnight...longer if you want it even more sour. Please check back and let us know how things went... Regards all, Dusty -- "The first freedom: The freedom to choose for yourself. Use it or lose it!" - Me, in a thoughtful moment |
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"Sour" taste'
"Dusty" > wrote in message m... > "graham" wrote in message ... >> >> >> "Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message >> ... >> > On Fri, 11 Nov 2011 07:47:40 -0800, Mr Maj6th > >> > wrote: >> > >> >>On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote: >> >> >> >>> "Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white >> >>>> flour. Each flour is stone ground, and organic. The second is a >> >>>> *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. >> >>>> They >> >>>> both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, >> >>>> and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. >> >>>> They >> >>>> both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising >> >>>> time "as would be expected." I am beginning to question why I am >> >>>> keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the >> >>>> characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use >> >>>> commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done >> >>>> with it. This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on >> >>>> environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. >> >>>> >> >>>> My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? I have extensively >> >>>> researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a >> >>>> different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> Maj6th >> >>>> >> >>>Try this: >> >>>http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html >> >>> >> >>>or this: >> >>>http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm >> >>> >> >>Certainly one of the best links I have seen, but which step (or steps) >> >>in this process of making sour dough contributes the most to the final >> >>sour taste? >> >> >> >>Thanks for the links! >> >> >> >>Maj6th >> > >> > It might also be that the total process itself determines the >> > sourness, not one particular step. If this is the case (and I suspect >> > it is,) which step contributes the most. >> > >> AIUI, retarding the dough, i.e., a long, slow fermentation at a cooler >> temp. >> I don't do this as I prefer the French style pain au levain which does >> not have that obvious sourness. > Well said, Graham. I was just about to reply to 'Maj6th' clarifying that. > While the nature of your starter, some are more sour than others; the type > and kind of flour you use, Rye makes more sour than a light-wheat AP; the > real secret to sour bread is for a long, cool final rise. Like Graham, I > prefer my SD more in the European style, not so sour. However, there is a > time and a place for some wonderful, very sour San Francisco style bread > as well. > > 'Maj6th', you can use my Poilne recipe: > http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...gh/poilane.htm. Note > especially the last step on "Day 2". Put your dough in the fridge and let > it sit overnight...longer if you want it even more sour. > > Please check back and let us know how things went... > > Regards all, > Dusty > -- I went on a cycling holiday to France this year (Dordogne) and on the last day I bought a 2kg miche at a recommended boulangerie. I still have a 1/4 in the freezer. Well worth the trouble to bring back to Canada as reference material. Graham (Ex-Suffolk; you know where that is!) |
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"Sour" taste'
On Thu, 10 Nov 2011 21:35:32 -0700, "graham" > wrote:
> >"Mr Maj6th" > wrote in message .. . >>I am new here but would like to ask a question: >> >> >Try this: >http://samartha.net/SD/procedures/SF01/MakeSF01-0.html > >or this: >http://www.innerlodge.com/Recipes/Br...ough/index.htm > I tried the Samastha Net link; it is very informative. I am actually in the process of baking the final loaves as I type, but I have a question. Since this process from the Samartha web site had me grow a sponge for three days, starting with a very small amount of starter, and then put it in the icebox for a period of time, why can't I just use the main mature starter that I have been growing and refrigerating for a couple months, I certainly have the quantity needed? Otherwise, I just throw it down the drain? Probably a silly question, but it seems like the same thing I've been growing! Maj6th |
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"Sour" taste'
I've been having this same sourless problem, I think once I got something close to the taste I was looking for, but haven't been able to reproducible way. I tried a recipe posted in the last week, all rising was at 68 degrees
2c water, 2 3/4 Flour, 1/4 starter, sit overnight, maybe 8 - 11 Hours. Added 2 3/4 c Flour, 1 tbsp salt. Kneaded well, using stretch and fold technique, let sit in the fridge one day. Did a boule roll under , popped on a pan for a final 6-7 hour rise before cooking at 500 from a cold oven. Bread came out good, we don't normally do 500 degrees for baking so the crust burnt a bit, but it was good, just not Sour at all. The starter was started from rye and water, I'm deathly afraid of Rye as it almost always gives the bread the wrong taste, really Salty, every time I've tried. I thought SF Sourdough is pure white bread anyways? That's what I'm after, there's a Diner in Denver that used to have what I want, but I'm a long way from there now. Any ideas, 2-3 days in the fridge? 16-24 hour initial proof? 2 Stage proof? 10 Hour final rise? I'm open to suggestions. At this point I'm about ready to feed the starter, throw it in a zip-lock bag, boil everything, and try a international Sourdough's SF Starter package to see if that gets me closer to the right taste.. |
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"Sour" taste'
Robert Zaleski wrote:
> I've been having this same sourless problem, I think once I got > something close to the taste I was looking for, but haven't been > able to reproducible way. I tried a recipe posted in the last > week, all rising was at 68 degrees 2c water, 2 3/4 Flour, 1/4 > starter, sit overnight, maybe 8 - 11 Hours. Added 2 3/4 c Flour, 1 > tbsp salt. Kneaded well, using stretch and fold technique, let > sit in the fridge one day. > > Did a boule roll under , popped on a pan for a final 6-7 hour rise > before cooking at 500 from a cold oven. Bread came out good, we > don't normally do 500 degrees for baking so the crust burnt a bit, > but it was good, just not Sour at all. The starter was started from > rye and water, I'm deathly afraid of Rye as it almost always gives > the bread the wrong taste, really Salty, every time I've tried. I > thought SF Sourdough is pure white bread anyways? That's what I'm > after, there's a Diner in Denver that used to have what I want, but > I'm a long way from there now. Any ideas, 2-3 days in the fridge? > 16-24 hour initial proof? 2 Stage proof? 10 Hour final rise? I'm > open to suggestions. At this point I'm about ready to feed the > starter, throw it in a zip-lock bag, boil everything, and try a > international Sourdough's SF Starter package to see if that gets me > closer to the right taste. If I want my bread to be more sour, I use rye flour to feed the starter. I just use high-protein white flour for the bread (except for the rye in the starter.) If I want it less sour, I feed the starter with white flour. The last batch was taking too long to rise and it was going to be ready to go in the oven at like 3:00 in the morning, so I put it in the fridge when I went to bed to retard the rise, then took it out the next afternoon and let it finish rising. It was a little more sour than usual. Perhaps I got lucky with my starter? It has always been just flour (sometimes wheat and sometimes rye) and water. My bread is just wheat flour, water, salt, and starter. I'm gonna start experimenting soon with small amounts of whole wheat flour. I just looked at your post again. That looks like a little too much salt. Maybe back off to 2 tsp? -Bob |
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"Sour" taste'
> If I want my bread to be more sour, I use rye flour to feed the
> starter. I just use high-protein white flour for the bread (except > for the rye in the starter.) If I want it less sour, I feed the > starter with white flour. I'll research what flour options we have, and I'll look into feeding the starter some high-protien white flour for awhile and do a loaf with that. I know I've done the rye in the past and it always comes out tasting super salty, and almost always unedible, so I'm going to avoid that like the plague.. Do you use a 50-50 rye to wheat for the starter, or is it 100% rye in the feeding. I'm assuming it's the typical matching water. Also, how much starter to dough are you using? I can always try splitting the starter and feeding it just rye to try a loaf, I'm sure I've got some rye sitting around still from last Spring. > The last batch was taking too long to rise and it was going to be > ready to go in the oven at like 3:00 in the morning, so I put it in > the fridge when I went to bed to retard the rise, then took it out the > next afternoon and let it finish rising. It was a little more sour > than usual. I've got a loaf ready to bake today or tommorrow which I let sit longer. I proofed it for 24 hours, 3 days in the Fridge, and we'll do a longer rise on it today with the flour we've been using, so we'll see how it comes out. If it's too strong I'll try a shorter proof and keep the long sit in the fridge. > Perhaps I got lucky with my starter? It has always been just flour > (sometimes wheat and sometimes rye) and water. My bread is just wheat > flour, water, salt, and starter. I'm gonna start experimenting soon > with small amounts of whole wheat flour. Maybe, I know I'm super specific on the taste I'm looking for, so until I can get it reliably, I won't be happy. > I just looked at your post again. That looks like a little too much > salt. Maybe back off to 2 tsp? Yeah, I got the amounts off a Polaine recipe that was posted a few weeks ago. I'll look at trying less salt in the dough next time too, I'll just have to watch the final rise closer to make sure it holds up as well. I was really happy how the last loaf didn't show any signs of collapse after the final rise, we'll see how this next loaf does. > -Bob Thanks for the post, from another Bob |
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"Sour" taste'
On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 04:39:12 -0800 (PST), Robert Zaleski
> wrote: >> If I want my bread to be more sour, I use rye flour to feed the >> starter. I just use high-protein white flour for the bread (except >> for the rye in the starter.) If I want it less sour, I feed the >> starter with white flour. > >I'll research what flour options we have, and I'll look into feeding the starter some high-protien white flour for awhile and do a loaf with that. I know I've done the rye in the past and it always comes out tasting super salty, and almost always unedible, so I'm going to avoid that like the plague. Do you use a 50-50 rye to wheat for the starter, or is it 100% rye in the feeding. I'm assuming it's the typical matching water. Also, how much starter to dough are you using? I can always try splitting the starter and feeding it just rye to try a loaf, I'm sure I've got some rye sitting around still from last Spring. > >> The last batch was taking too long to rise and it was going to be >> ready to go in the oven at like 3:00 in the morning, so I put it in >> the fridge when I went to bed to retard the rise, then took it out the >> next afternoon and let it finish rising. It was a little more sour >> than usual. > >I've got a loaf ready to bake today or tommorrow which I let sit longer. I proofed it for 24 hours, 3 days in the Fridge, and we'll do a longer rise on it today with the flour we've been using, so we'll see how it comes out. If it's too strong I'll try a shorter proof and keep the long sit in the fridge. > >> Perhaps I got lucky with my starter? It has always been just flour >> (sometimes wheat and sometimes rye) and water. My bread is just wheat >> flour, water, salt, and starter. I'm gonna start experimenting soon >> with small amounts of whole wheat flour. > >Maybe, I know I'm super specific on the taste I'm looking for, so until I can get it reliably, I won't be happy. > >> I just looked at your post again. That looks like a little too much >> salt. Maybe back off to 2 tsp? > >Yeah, I got the amounts off a Polaine recipe that was posted a few weeks ago. I'll look at trying less salt in the dough next time too, I'll just have to watch the final rise closer to make sure it holds up as well. I was really happy how the last loaf didn't show any signs of collapse after the final rise, we'll see how this next loaf does. > >> -Bob > >Thanks for the post, from another Bob There is always experimentation involved in trying to achieve the exact degree of "sour" one wants in a bread. The starter itself may be a factor, the build of the final dough is important (1 or 2 or 3 stage builds, etc) , as are the type and proportion of flours, hydration, length of proof, temperature of proof. One achieves a starter with more "sour and rise potential" earlier when it is begun and fed with rye, but it can also be accomplished with time and patience and AP flour. Again, this is not the main force that develops a sour flavor in the dough and bread. That is process-dependent.. Boron |
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"Sour" taste'
Robert Zaleski wrote:
>> If I want my bread to be more sour, I use rye flour to feed the >> starter. I just use high-protein white flour for the bread >> (except for the rye in the starter.) If I want it less sour, I >> feed the starter with white flour. > > I'll research what flour options we have, and I'll look into > feeding the starter some high-protien white flour for awhile and do > a loaf with that. I know I've done the rye in the past and it > always comes out tasting super salty, and almost always unedible, > so I'm going to avoid that like the plague. Do you use a 50-50 rye > to wheat for the starter, or is it 100% rye in the feeding. I'm > assuming it's the typical matching water. Also, how much starter > to dough are you using? I can always try splitting the starter and > feeding it just rye to try a loaf, I'm sure I've got some rye > sitting around still from last Spring... > Sometimes I feed the starter with white flour, sometimes with rye. I would say i alternate them, but it's not that organized. To make the bread, I weigh 1 pound of bread flour into a bread machine I bought at the Goodwill store, and I dissolve 1 tsp of salt in 1 cup of water and add that. Then I start the machine on the "Dough" cycle. While it is still pulsing slowly I add maybe 3/4 cup of starter, which usually has the consistency of thick pancake batter. About an hour later when the machine beeps, I transfer the ball of dough to a greased Corningware casserole dish and cover it and let it rise until the dish is full -- however long that takes, and the rise time varies quite a bit depending on the temperature and how active the starter was. About halfway thru the rise, I usually make 3 shallow gashes in the top of the loaf with my pocket knife. (I've tried different kitchen knives and even a razor blade, but the Opinel pocket knife does the best job.) If I don't cut the top, a big flat pocket often develops right under the top crust and causes trouble when I slice it. I need to figure out how to adapt this for making rolls instead of a big square loaf. -Bob |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
On Nov 10, 8:10*am, Mr Maj6th > wrote:
> I am new here but would like to ask a question: > > I have two sourdough starters going; one is spring water, rye, white > flour. *Each flour is stone ground, and organic. *The second is a > *******ized starter based on potato starch and commercial yeast. *They > both froth and bubble when I feed, them, have the perfect viscosity, > and in all ways react perfectly, but neither gives a sour taste. *They > both rise as expected when I make bread, with a much longer rising > time "as would be expected." *I am beginning to question why I am > keeping theses starters and feeding them if neither gives me the > characteristic sour taste I am looking for, why not just use > commercial yeast to make a good tasting loaf of bread, and be done > with it. *This would give an expected rise time (not so dependant on > environmental variables) and a much shorter total cooking time. > > My question is; how do I get that "sour" taste? *I have extensively > researched this on the web, but it seems everyone seem to have a > different opinion; if I tried them all, it would take a lifetime!. > > Thanks > Maj6th Greetings, haven't posted here in a long while. Boron mentioned process down-thread, and that's about 95% of it, assuming you have a decent culture based on whole rye or whole wheat. Everyone has this problem until they control the final proof correctly. That means you need to manage temperature. The sour-side of your culture wants 80 degrees, 85 F. is better. My solution was to build a proof box. It is a simple and cheap. I use a low profile Rubbermaid Storage container sized to fit my baskets or loaf pans, and an old fashioned heat pad. You may need to chip a small port to run electric, but otherwise that's it. I assume you run a cool bulk ferment. When you're ready for the final proof, do it in the proof box. Monitor the temperature until you understand the heat pad settings: shoot for 85 degrees F. Proof a small piece of extra dough, use it as the basis for the next bread. Learn to manage your culture's yeast/bacteria balance with temperature. |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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"Sour" taste'
Van Bakel wrote:
> Not the baking process. I meant to say that if you make the > proofing/rising stages longer, you'll get a bread that's more sour. > Wouldn't we get the same sour effect by adding few drops (or a bit more) of cider vinegar in a final baking dough, instead of waiting for a day or two for the same thing when ethanol as a byproduct of fermentation gets converted to acetic acid ? Why wait that long when we have acetic acid by hand in every kitchen ? Or, as someone here said she or he prefers a french type of loaf without pronounced sourness; just add starter three or four times as much as prescribed for a regular sourdough, so cut the time of rising and prevent ethanol being converted into acetic acid, and have a "regular" non-sour bread. Please, have in mind I am not into picking fights in this newsgroup, I am seeking answers, as to me these two are totally valid shortcuts and logical things to do. |
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