I was feeling adventurous (and tired of kneading) and so I tried to
create a no-knead sourdough. I'm used to creating wonderful breads
but I wanted a recipe that I could complete on-the-fly. It was
similar to my usual recipe:

Mix 3 c flour, 1 c water, 1 tsp salt, 1 Tbs sourdough. Ferment 20
hours.

Then I flattened it on a pastry cloth, folded it into a ball, let it
rise for a hour, and plopped it into a hot dutch oven to bake for 45
minutes.

The thing is, it had a TERRIBLE smell while baking. And this is
something I have never encountered before. My guess is it has to do
with fermenting the sourdough in the presence of salt. The only other
variable seems to be the small amount of spelt flour I used. Does
anyone have any ideas on what this malodor could have been?

I'm not sure how the bread tastes yet--hopefully not like the smell!

schmmd wrote:
> Any other ideas?
>
Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
time it works, sometimes not.

Your ratio (guessed):

3 cups, 130g each 390, 2 tb flour - maybe 10 g ~ 2.5 % starter flour
- you are off by factor of ~ 10.

You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.

A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
consistent bread quality one needs a 3-stage starter process.

If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
far from that.

I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
ratio and it seems to work most of that time.

You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.

Sam

Well, I'll try this recipe again and see if I get the stink. I've
baked my normal recipe (not the above but still using a small amount
of starter) maybe 30 times and I get a consistent flavor and I have
never had this smell. So we'll see!

On Apr 16, 10:26*pm, Sam >
wrote:
> schmmdwrote:
> > Any other ideas?
>
> Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
> to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
> maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
> time it works, sometimes not.
>
> Your ratio (guessed):
>
> 3 cups, 130g each *390, 2 tb flour - *maybe 10 g *~ 2.5 % starter flour
> - you are off by factor of ~ 10.
>
> You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
> actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
> there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.
>
> A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
> consistentbreadquality one needs a *3-stage starter process.
>
> If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
> far from that.
>
> I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
> ratio and it seems to work most of that time.
>
> You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
> account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.
>
> Sam

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:18:02 -0600, schmmd > wrote:

> Well, I'll try this recipe again and see if I get the stink. I've
> baked my normal recipe (not the above but still using a small amount
> of starter) maybe 30 times and I get a consistent flavor and I have
> never had this smell. So we'll see!
>
> On Apr 16, 10:26 pm, Sam >
> wrote:
>> schmmdwrote:
>> > Any other ideas?
>>
>> Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
>> to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
>> maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
>> time it works, sometimes not.
>>
>> Your ratio (guessed):
>>
>> 3 cups, 130g each 390, 2 tb flour - maybe 10 g ~ 2.5 % starter flour
>> - you are off by factor of ~ 10.
>>
>> You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
>> actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
>> there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.
>>
>> A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
>> consistentbreadquality one needs a 3-stage starter process.
>>
>> If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
>> far from that.
>>
>> I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
>> ratio and it seems to work most of that time.
>>
>> You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
>> account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.
>>
>> Sam
>

Mind telling us why such a small amount of starter? I'm just a amateur
here but it does seem like too small of an amount to insure the dough has
the same character as the starter.
--
Mickey

A dutch oven? Cast iron? Was it new? Brand new cast iron cookware needs to
be "seasoned" other wise the first few things you bake in it can smell and
taste horrible, with a very noticeable stink while baking.

"schmmd" > wrote in message
...
Well, I'll try this recipe again and see if I get the stink. I've
baked my normal recipe (not the above but still using a small amount
of starter) maybe 30 times and I get a consistent flavor and I have
never had this smell. So we'll see!

On Apr 16, 10:26 pm, Sam >
wrote:
> schmmdwrote:
> > Any other ideas?
>
> Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
> to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
> maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
> time it works, sometimes not.
>
> Your ratio (guessed):
>
> 3 cups, 130g each 390, 2 tb flour - maybe 10 g ~ 2.5 % starter flour
> - you are off by factor of ~ 10.
>
> You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
> actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
> there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.
>
> A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
> consistentbreadquality one needs a 3-stage starter process.
>
> If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
> far from that.
>
> I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
> ratio and it seems to work most of that time.
>
> You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
> account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.
>
> Sam

It's a very well loved and well seasoned cast iron dutch oven. I bake
in it often. It gives a very different crust than a stone, and I
enjoy both. This time I did add the dough to a hot (500 degrees)
dutch oven however. Usually I rise my bread in the dutch oven and put
a cold dutch oven in a very hot oven. I suppose the smell could have
been some oils that smoked, although it didn't remind me of that at
the time. Something to think about!

I'm also coming around to Sam's idea that the culture became a bit
off. While the bread doesn't taste bad, it does lack my usual
sourdough flavor. However, I still think this has something to do
with this recipe. Maybe adding the salt at the begining (I have never
done this before) or adding the sourdough directly to 3 c of flour (I
usually add it to about 1.5 c of flour and let that sit for 12 - 24
hours, and then add 1.5 c more flour). Too many variables! I'll have
to bake it again...

On Apr 17, 6:52*am, "hutchndi" > wrote:
> A dutch oven? Cast iron? Was it new? Brand new cast iron cookware needs to
> be "seasoned" other wise the first few things you bake in it can smell and
> taste horrible, with a very noticeable stink while baking.
>
> "schmmd" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> Well, I'll try this recipe again and see if I get the stink. *I've
> baked my normal recipe (not the above but still using a small amount
> of starter) maybe 30 times and I get a consistent flavor and I have
> never had this smell. *So we'll see!
>
> On Apr 16, 10:26 pm, Sam >
> wrote:
>
> > schmmdwrote:
> > > Any other ideas?
>
> > Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
> > to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
> > maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
> > time it works, sometimes not.
>
> > Your ratio (guessed):
>
> > 3 cups, 130g each 390, 2 tb flour - maybe 10 g ~ 2.5 % starter flour
> > - you are off by factor of ~ 10.
>
> > You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
> > actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
> > there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.
>
> > A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
> > consistentbreadquality one needs a 3-stage starter process.
>
> > If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
> > far from that.
>
> > I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
> > ratio and it seems to work most of that time.
>
> > You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
> > account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.
>
> > Sam

Hi Mickey! I adapted my usual recipe (http://www.schmitztech.com/
moin.fcg/Recipes/Sourdough_7-Grain_Bread) from Jake O'Shaughnessey's
Sourdough Bread Book: A Most Complete Compendium of Fine Old Sourdough
Recipes. So I usually add a small amount of sourdough (1-3 Tbs) to
1.5 c flour and 1 c water and let it ferment for 12 to 24 hours. This
ensures a VERY active culture by the end in my (and Timothy Firnstahl,
the author's) experiences. Later I add more flour and knead it into a
dough. I have had very reliable results from this recipe and it makes
it easy to manage my sourdough starter.

However, with the recipe above, I figured that a similar amount of
sourdough starter would work. With twice the flour and salt present,
however, it might not.

On Apr 17, 6:07*am, mickey > wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:18:02 -0600, schmmd > wrote:
> > Well, I'll try this recipe again and see if I get the stink. *I've
> > baked my normal recipe (not the above but still using a small amount
> > of starter) maybe 30 times and I get a consistent flavor and I have
> > never had this smell. *So we'll see!
>
> > On Apr 16, 10:26 pm, Sam >
> > wrote:
> >> schmmdwrote:
> >> > Any other ideas?
>
> >> Not really - I stick with what I wrote before - ratio of starter flour
> >> to total flour is too low. There is randomness involved and you are
> >> maybe in a borderline condition with what you are doing. Most of the
> >> time it works, sometimes not.
>
> >> Your ratio (guessed):
>
> >> 3 cups, 130g each *390, 2 tb flour - *maybe 10 g *~ 2.5 % starter flour
> >> - you are off by factor of ~ 10.
>
> >> You have fermentation going on once you put the loaf in the oven -
> >> actually quite a lot - last puffs of critters and you may not smell that
> >> there is something off growing until it takes off in oven spring.
>
> >> A baker's school book talks about natural sourdoughs and to reliably get
> >> consistentbreadquality one needs a *3-stage starter process.
>
> >> If you are using 2.5 % starter flour and 20 hour fermentation you are
> >> far from that.
>
> >> I think you are growing a new starter every time you do this with your
> >> ratio and it seems to work most of that time.
>
> >> You sure can go on playing roulette with your breads and take into
> >> account an occasional stink. Nothing wrong with that.
>
> >> Sam
>
> Mind telling us why such a small amount of starter? *I'm just a amateur *
> here but it does seem like too small of an amount to insure the dough has *
> the same character as the starter.
> --
> Mickey

schmmd wrote:
> However, with the recipe above, I figured that a similar amount of
> sourdough starter would work. With twice the flour and salt present,
> however, it might not.
>
>
What are you trying to accomplish with adding salt on the first step -
if I read this right ?

Sam

On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:29:01 -0700 (PDT), schmmd >
wrote:

>I was feeling adventurous (and tired of kneading) and so I tried to
>create a no-knead sourdough. I'm used to creating wonderful breads
>but I wanted a recipe that I could complete on-the-fly. It was
>similar to my usual recipe:
>
>Mix 3 c flour, 1 c water, 1 tsp salt, 1 Tbs sourdough. Ferment 20
>hours.
>
>Then I flattened it on a pastry cloth, folded it into a ball, let it
>rise for a hour, and plopped it into a hot dutch oven to bake for 45
>minutes.
>
>The thing is, it had a TERRIBLE smell while baking. And this is
>something I have never encountered before.
Remove the cloth before "plopping" it into the oven.
HTH
[]'s

Had I left the cloth on, I probably would have noticed what was
wrong ;-)

I did have to plop it into the oven, however, since the oven was 500
degrees and I didn't want to burn my hands.


On Apr 21, 9:56*am, Shadow <Sh@dow> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 09:29:01 -0700 (PDT), schmmd >
> wrote:
>
> >I was feeling adventurous (and tired of kneading) and so I tried to
> >create a no-knead sourdough. *I'm used to creating wonderful breads
> >but I wanted a recipe that I could complete on-the-fly. *It was
> >similar to my usual recipe:
>
> >Mix 3 c flour, 1 c water, 1 tsp salt, 1 Tbs sourdough. *Ferment 20
> >hours.
>
> >Then I flattened it on a pastry cloth, folded it into a ball, let it
> >rise for a hour, and plopped it into a hot dutch oven to bake for 45
> >minutes.
>
> >The thing is, it had a TERRIBLE smell while baking. *And this is
> >something I have never encountered before.
>
> * * * * Remove the cloth before "plopping" it into the oven.
> * * * * HTH
> * * * * []'s

On Apr 18, 8:53*pm, Sam > wrote:
> schmmd wrote:
> > However, with the recipe above, I figured that a similar amount of
> > sourdough starter would work. *With twice the flour and salt present,
> > however, it might not.
>
> What are you trying to accomplish with adding salt on the first step -
> if I read this right ?
>
> Sam

I'm not sure. What would you expect from adding the salt on the first
step?