Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Default Starter Comparison

Well here it is, actually got around to my experiment:

http://picasaweb.google.com/stbuzby/StarterComparison

Fed both my "new" and "old" starters on the same flour- same
proportions, bread recipe, raising and baking times. The "new"
starter is distinctly more tart, but the crust and crumb - as I've
heard them called - are just about identical. Nice and browned, very
fluffy.

There is a definite difference between the two cultures that comes out
in the taste, but it looks like the rising power and activity levels
of each is about the same.....

Stacey
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> Beautiful. (I must have missed it - what was the difference in the two
> starters?)
> -joe


About the only difference was that the new starter is more on the sour
side than the older one. Don't know enough to get into the finer
points of exactly why, but I must have caught different critters in
that one when I made it a few weeks ago.

Stacey
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Stacey wrote:
<snap>
>
> About the only difference was that the new starter is more on the sour
> side than the older one. Don't know enough to get into the finer
> points of exactly why,
> Stacey

So if you do not know why what the use to post, I learn nothing from your
post.

Joe Umstead

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On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:17:10 -0800 (PST), Stacey
> wrote:

>
>About the only difference was that the new starter is more on the sour
>side than the older one.


Hi Stacey,

Are you saying that the starters differ in their sour taste,
or that they make breads that differ in that way?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

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> Are you saying that the starters differ in their sour taste,
> or that they make breads that differ in that way?
> Kenneth


That would be the bread I was referring to- not into tasting the
starter itself.




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/
> You might want to try it. *Both the smell and taste of a starter are
> good indications of the condition of the starter. *Over a period of time
> you'll be able to add the information from smell and taste to the visual
> cues you are currently using to gauge the health and vitality of your
> starters.
>
> In some classes I teach, some students are reluctant to taste the
> starters, but c'mon - it's just flour, water, yeast and harmless
> bacteria.
>
> Mike



Very true! I taste my starter very often, I like it, plus I'm sure
it's good for digestion!
I tend to taste the bread very often as well, it's important to spot
mistakes sometimes, like salt deficiency for example
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> You might want to try it. *Both the smell and taste of a starter are
> good indications of the condition of the starter. *Over a period of time
> you'll be able to add the information from smell and taste to the visual
> cues you are currently using to gauge the health and vitality of your
> starters.
>
> In some classes I teach, some students are reluctant to taste the
> starters, but c'mon - it's just flour, water, yeast and harmless
> bacteria.
>
> Mike


Hmmm, maybe when the memories of how it smelled in its early stages
are not so fresh... still can't stomach the thought of rotten peas.
I'm sure the bacteria and fungi that were producing such odiferous
aromas at first are long since gone, but I think I will still wait a
while.

I do use smell when checking my starters - yeasty when first fed, good
and sour and lively after about 12 hours, fermented and strong when
slack after 24 hours or so and really needing fed again.

Texture is also a good guide, as in how well it sticks to the mixing
spoon and how "stringy" it is when pulled out of the jar. Good
stringyness (very technical terms here) seems to indicate a healthy
starter, while strings that break apart quickly seem to indicate that
it needs fed. My guess on this one is that the gluten in the flour is
in the later stages of being broken down, and that the critters are
getting low on what they like to eat.

All of this is based on personal observation, and trial and error in
my own baking/starter feeding endeavors...

Perhaps one day, when I'm brave, I'll give it a taste and see what
it's like.... but for now I think I will stick to checking the bread.

Viince wrote:
>Very true! I taste my starter very often, I like it, plus I'm sure
>it's good for digestion!


You might be right on that one - never really thought about that
before...


Stacey
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Default Starter Comparison

Mike Avery wrote:

> You might want to try it. Both the smell and taste of a starter are
> good indications of the condition of the starter. Over a period of time
> you'll be able to add the information from smell and taste to the visual
> cues you are currently using to gauge the health and vitality of your
> starters.
>


Ticker is in compleat agreement with you on that.

Newer posters might not know that my feline companion has won many
sourdough starter tasting contests. She retired after winning the
National Championship - saying that she had nothing left to prove.

Regards,

Charles
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On Feb 2, 5:22*pm, Charles Perry > wrote:
> Mike Avery wrote:
> > You might want to try it. *Both the smell and taste of a starter are
> > good indications of the condition of the starter. *Over a period of time
> > you'll be able to add the information from smell and taste to the visual
> > cues you are currently using to gauge the health and vitality of your
> > starters.

>
> Ticker is in compleat agreement with you on that.
>
> Newer posters might not know that my feline companion has won many
> sourdough starter tasting contests. *She retired after winning the
> National Championship - saying that she had nothing left to prove.
>
> Regards,
>
> Charles




Sourdough is about the only thing left out on the counter that my cats
*won't* get into. I did find myself one of the jars with the flip top
lids and wire latch, just in case they do decide to try it....

Stacey


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So How is the new one doing a month on?

Were they both made using the same flour Stacey? I've made quite a few
starters all in my own kitchen using different flours. Each and every
one was different in some way to the others, or at least that was my
opinion at the time, but without doing side by side bake offs as
you've done it's very hard to tell, you also need to have treated the
two starters in exactly the same way for a day or so before.

Thanks for sharing your observations.

Jim

On 5 Feb, 21:06, Stacey > wrote:
...
> Sourdough is about the only thing left out on the counter that my cats
> *won't* get into. *I did find myself one of the jars with the flip top
> lids and wire latch, just in case they do decide to try it....
>
> Stacey- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


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On Feb 6, 3:57*am, TG > wrote:
> So How is the new one doing a month on?
>
> Were they both made using the same flour Stacey? I've made quite a few
> starters all in my own kitchen using different flours. Each and every
> one was different in some way to the others, or at least that was my
> opinion at the time, but without doing side by side bake offs as
> you've done it's very hard to tell, you also need to have treated the
> two starters in exactly the same way for a day or so before.
>
> Thanks for sharing your observations.
>
> Jim


It's doing quite well actually, for being a weekend fridge-kept
starter.

I did treat both cultures the same in my original experiment, feeding
and growing them for the same amounts of time before baking. If I
remember right, I also gave each about two days' worth of feedings
before finally making bread. Rising and texture were more or less
identical, but the bread from the new starter was distinctly more
sour.

The older culture tends to have a more mild aroma, smelling pleasantly
fermented even when it's just been fed. It also has a different
consistency- I generally give it 1/4c of water, 1/2c flour and it will
absorb the whole thing to make a soft sponge.

The new one maintains the faintest trace of the "rotten peas" smell it
had when it first began working (most of the reason why I won't taste
it) but other than it has a distinctly tart odor - more of what I
would think of as being an Alaskan sourdough. It will take 1/4 c of
water and 1/2 c flour and end up being like a ball of dough- much
thicker. Still puzzled by that, since I am using the same flour and
water for each.

I know most here aren't interested in pancakes, but I also find it
interesting that the new culture produces cakes that are about twice
as fluffy as the old starter .... same recipe.... so I'm thinking the
bacteria in the new one must produce more of the acids that react with
baking soda.

All in all it was a very intriguing experiment - there is something
neat about knowing you can make your own leavening with nothing but
flour and water. We have a hard enough time keeping up with one
starter though, so I will probably give the new one away.... plenty of
neighbors around here who would like to try some.

Thanks for your interest,
Stacey
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Default Starter Comparison

Hi Stacey,

thanks for that, sorry, I don't check in that often here. I've found
that a new starter can take quite a while to settle down sometimes. My
very first starter didn't become what the established sourdough
starters I've had from other people until after I'd dried and revived
it. That was a great starter, I stopped using it though and didn't
have a back up. But easy come, easy go eh?

Jim

On 8 Feb, 05:39, Stacey > wrote:
> On Feb 6, 3:57*am, TG > wrote:
>
> > So How is the new one doing a month on?

>
> > Were they both made using the same flour Stacey? I've made quite a few
> > starters all in my own kitchen using different flours. Each and every
> > one was different in some way to the others, or at least that was my
> > opinion at the time, but without doing side by side bake offs as
> > you've done it's very hard to tell, you also need to have treated the
> > two starters in exactly the same way for a day or so before.

>
> > Thanks for sharing your observations.

>
> > Jim

>
> It's doing quite well actually, for being a weekend fridge-kept
> starter.
>
> I did treat both cultures the same in my original experiment, feeding
> and growing them for the same amounts of time before baking. *If I
> remember right, I also ... plenty of
> neighbors around here who would like to try some.
>
> Thanks for your interest,
> Stacey


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