Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for this
mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in US (Sears
Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is rip-off. Only
problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit City, Sears) do not
have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online purchase they ship it to
US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool
has some kind of restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the
Canadian customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new one.

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:

> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
> one.
>
>

Is there a Target store just over the border? Target advertises it for
$399 on their web site.

There may be more stores that carry it, but this is the one I checked.

Barry

"Arek Niski" > wrote in message
news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no...
> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
> the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for this
> mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in US
> (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online
> purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's
> warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of restriction in place
> preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian customers. Of course there
> is EBay but not many sellers ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up
> with refurbish unit sold as a new one.
Are you able to shop here? http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/app.detail
$384.80 plus 15.22 shipping and handling

"Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
6.158...
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>
>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
>> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
>> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
>> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
>> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
>> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
>> one.
>>
>>
>
> Is there a Target store just over the border? Target advertises it for
> $399 on their web site.
>
> There may be more stores that carry it, but this is the one I checked.
>
> Barry


Yes, there is one approx. 20 miles distance from the border. But I have
looked on the Target web site and when I mouse-click on the mixer picture it
pops a window with following info:

"Usually ships within 1 to 2 days.
This item is available online, but is not available in stores.
This item can only be shipped to the 50 states. We regret it cannot be
shipped to APO/FPO, or Puerto Rico."

Nice.
BTW I have also noticed that they have Bosch Universal Kitchen Machine for $
330.I would like to be able to make a single batch of bread out of 900 gal
of wheat and 900 g of rye flour home milled. So, which one of these two
mixers would be a better deal? However there is going to be the same problem
like with KA. No shipping to Canada

Arek Niski wrote:
> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
> the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for this
> mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in US (Sears
> Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is rip-off. Only
> problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit City, Sears) do not
> have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online purchase they ship it to
> US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool
> has some kind of restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the
> Canadian customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new one.
>
>
Why do you want this type of mixer for bread (assuming your intention
due to posting on this group)?

Once I made a comparison with a puny amount of dough - there is a movie
link on this page:

http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE.../GrowRise.html

If you look closely, you can see the faint blue smoke coming out of the
KA and I had to stop.

While I was trying to find this movie again, I stumbled on a bunch of
posts - make up your own mind.
Old Kitchenaids are probably best as are Hobarts. What comes now out of
there is junk for bread
making (all MO).

> --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n026.10 ---------------
>
> From: "linda grande" >
> Subject: KA vs. Magic Mill
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:38:56 +0000
>
>
> For Marcy Goldman and Paula Countryman...
>
> I, too, own the Magic Mill...in addition, I've also owned for 15 years a
> (Hobart) Kitchen Aid and I will have to echo what was said here a
> couple of
> weeks ago by Don Bischoff (who is the owner of a Bosch Concept and a very
> knowledgeable baker)..."for serious bakers, the Kitchen Aid is merely a
> toy"! I agree 100% and would never buy another Kitchen Aid.
>
> --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n026.15 ---------------
>
> From: "Jazzbel" >
> Subject: Magic Mill vs. Kitchen Aid
> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:27:50 -0400
>
>
>
> > I also have tested everything else - including the Magic Mill.
> > While the Magic Mill has a capacity thing going on - I have to say
> it just
> > 'thugs' the dough around and around - it does not properly knead of
> > manipulate it AT ALL
>
>
> I strongly disagree. It does not knead AT ALL?? Capacity by itself would
> not cause people to buy a machine, what's the point of owning a machine
> which does not perform its functions?
>
> If for nothing else, the Magic Mill is a better dough maker, and is the
> preferred machine of bread bakers. If your dough was not properly
> kneaded, it is probably because you did not knead it long enough. Mixing
> and kneading should take 10-12 minutes.
>
> Bread Doughs are not the KA's forte. In fact, run of the mill bread
> machines do a much better job.
>
> It takes a while for cake bakers to adjust to the Magic Mill, I
> agree. But
> once you get used to it, it is fully functional and fine. In fact, it is
> excellent for make butter cakes, where creaming is very important for
> cake
> volume.
>
> I have been baking bread with my Magic Mill for over two years now,
> and the
> quality of my products is better than ever.
>
> I mainly use my Kitchen Ad to mix small amount of dough or batter. (like
> roti, naan or english muffins).
>
> I think both machines have its merits and will suit differently
> individuals
> with different needs. If I had to give up one, I would give up the
> Kitchan
> Aid, as the Magic Mill can handle samll quantities as well.
>
> Later,
> Jazzbel
>
> 5 17th July 08:47
> samartha deva
> External User
>
> Cheese Luise....
>
> KitchenAid, an American brand name quality product.
>
> The "quart" denominations have nothing to do with the actual mixing
> capacity. It's far less, maybe 20 %.
>
> Using the "Watt-power" denomination as a means to make an educated guess
> about it's capacity - good luck! There is no correlation to other
> mixer's capacity.
>
> I was a proud owner of a KitchenAid - one of the larger models - but not
> for long.
>
> When I started the first mix, is produced a horrible electrical smell.
> So I stopped it and started reading the manual.
>
> Discovery number 1: One cannot run it on the slowest setting.
> Discovery number 2: With bread dough, the capacity is extremely limited
> and depends on hydration and flour type.
>
> The proudness evaporated an was replaced with disappointment,
> frustration and feeling cheated. That thing was not cheap.
>
> It turned out after a while that the KitcheAid mixer was just not doing
> the job it was intended for, I looked into other mixers. The Bosch I did
> not like because of the post in the middle. I ended up with the Magic
> Mill (European - Swedish, Electrolux brand).
>
> Running both in parallel with the same load of dough, the Kitchenaid
> started to smoke whereas the Magic Mill happily purred along - with half
> the Wattage (300 W, Kitchenaid - 600 W). So - the KitchenAid was
> disposed of.
>
> IMO: Forget the KitchenAid Mixer for bread dough, it's not worth the
> frustration one has to put up with this thing, no matter how much you
> think you are saving.
>
> ------
>
> By M0nica L - usenet poster
> Rank: Not rated
> Rating: 0%, 0 votes
>
>
> On 1 Apr 2006 11:28:01 -0800, BestBread <
> There are lots of on-line vendors who carry a variety of mixers. Check out
> bizrate.com or google.
>
> However, a few thoughts. KitchenAid mixers will do a decent job on bread
> doughs IF you read the manual and stay within their guidelines. Each mixer
> has a maximum amount of flour it is rated for. However, that is white
> flour. If you are using whole wheat or rye, you need to cut that in half.
> Next, the KA's have a limited duty cycle. They suggest you not knead too
> long (check your manual for the limits here), and most also suggest no
> more
> than 2 batches back to back, followed by a 45 minute or so cool-down
> period
> (again, check your manual). I don't know why the call some of their
> machines "professional" or "commercial" when they clearly aren't, but they
> are adequate for most home mixing purposes.
>
> ....

"Janet B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in message
> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no...
>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
>> the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for this
>> mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in US
>> (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online
>> purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's
>> warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of restriction in place
>> preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian customers. Of course there
>> is EBay but not many sellers ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up
>> with refurbish unit sold as a new one.
> Are you able to shop here? http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/app.detail
> $384.80 plus 15.22 shipping and handling
>
>

Yes, and it looks like they can ship to my place for $19. However there is a
disclaimer in Shipping FAQ:

"Canadian customers will receive their orders through the Canadian Post. In
addition, we currently cannot ship the following types of items to Canada:
perishable items, food, cosmetics, items weighing over 66 pounds, or items
shipping directly from the manufacturer."

Got to find out where is it shipped from

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.36.1191806015.25616.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
>
> Arek Niski wrote:
>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
>> the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for this
>> mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in US
>> (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online
>> purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's
>> warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of restriction in place
>> preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian customers. Of course there
>> is EBay but not many sellers ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up
>> with refurbish unit sold as a new one.
>>
> Why do you want this type of mixer for bread (assuming your intention due
> to posting on this group)?

Because I have red an opinion that it can handle batch of 1800 g (14 cups)
of whole wheat and rye flour with no problem. And I have got tired of making
3 seperate batches of 2LB of dough in my bread machine.(This however had an
advantage of being able to make 3 different loafs of bread at one session.)
But as I have indicated in my other post I have also looked at Bosch
Universal Kitchen Machine. Would it perform better than KA Pro 600? I have
no preferences as long as it does the job and the price will be less than
$400.


>
> Once I made a comparison with a puny amount of dough - there is a movie
> link on this page:
>
> http://samartha.net/SD/images/BYDATE.../GrowRise.html
>
> If you look closely, you can see the faint blue smoke coming out of the
> KA and I had to stop
>
> While I was trying to find this movie again, I stumbled on a bunch of
> posts - make up your own mind.
> Old Kitchenaids are probably best as are Hobarts. What comes now out of
> there is junk for bread
> making (all MO).
>
>> --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n026.10 ---------------
>>
>> From: "linda grande" >
>> Subject: KA vs. Magic Mill
>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 14:38:56 +0000
>>
>>
>> For Marcy Goldman and Paula Countryman...
>>
>> I, too, own the Magic Mill...in addition, I've also owned for 15 years a
>> (Hobart) Kitchen Aid and I will have to echo what was said here a couple
>> of
>> weeks ago by Don Bischoff (who is the owner of a Bosch Concept and a very
>> knowledgeable baker)..."for serious bakers, the Kitchen Aid is merely a
>> toy"! I agree 100% and would never buy another Kitchen Aid.
>>
>> --------------- MESSAGE bread-bakers.v102.n026.15 ---------------
>>
>> From: "Jazzbel" >
>> Subject: Magic Mill vs. Kitchen Aid
>> Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 16:27:50 -0400
>>
>>
>>
>> > I also have tested everything else - including the Magic Mill.
>> > While the Magic Mill has a capacity thing going on - I have to say it
>> just
>> > 'thugs' the dough around and around - it does not properly knead of
>> > manipulate it AT ALL
>>
>>
>> I strongly disagree. It does not knead AT ALL?? Capacity by itself would
>> not cause people to buy a machine, what's the point of owning a machine
>> which does not perform its functions?
>>
>> If for nothing else, the Magic Mill is a better dough maker, and is the
>> preferred machine of bread bakers. If your dough was not properly
>> kneaded, it is probably because you did not knead it long enough. Mixing
>> and kneading should take 10-12 minutes.
>>
>> Bread Doughs are not the KA's forte. In fact, run of the mill bread
>> machines do a much better job.
>>
>> It takes a while for cake bakers to adjust to the Magic Mill, I agree.
>> But
>> once you get used to it, it is fully functional and fine. In fact, it is
>> excellent for make butter cakes, where creaming is very important for
>> cake
>> volume.
>>
>> I have been baking bread with my Magic Mill for over two years now, and
>> the
>> quality of my products is better than ever.
>>
>> I mainly use my Kitchen Ad to mix small amount of dough or batter. (like
>> roti, naan or english muffins).
>>
>> I think both machines have its merits and will suit differently
>> individuals
>> with different needs. If I had to give up one, I would give up the
>> Kitchan
>> Aid, as the Magic Mill can handle samll quantities as well.
>>
>> Later,
>> Jazzbel
>>
>> 5 17th July 08:47
>> samartha deva
>> External User
>>
>> Cheese Luise....
>>
>> KitchenAid, an American brand name quality product.
>>
>> The "quart" denominations have nothing to do with the actual mixing
>> capacity. It's far less, maybe 20 %.
>>
>> Using the "Watt-power" denomination as a means to make an educated guess
>> about it's capacity - good luck! There is no correlation to other
>> mixer's capacity.
>>
>> I was a proud owner of a KitchenAid - one of the larger models - but not
>> for long.
>>
>> When I started the first mix, is produced a horrible electrical smell.
>> So I stopped it and started reading the manual.
>>
>> Discovery number 1: One cannot run it on the slowest setting.
>> Discovery number 2: With bread dough, the capacity is extremely limited
>> and depends on hydration and flour type.
>>
>> The proudness evaporated an was replaced with disappointment,
>> frustration and feeling cheated. That thing was not cheap.
>>
>> It turned out after a while that the KitcheAid mixer was just not doing
>> the job it was intended for, I looked into other mixers. The Bosch I did
>> not like because of the post in the middle. I ended up with the Magic
>> Mill (European - Swedish, Electrolux brand).
>>
>> Running both in parallel with the same load of dough, the Kitchenaid
>> started to smoke whereas the Magic Mill happily purred along - with half
>> the Wattage (300 W, Kitchenaid - 600 W). So - the KitchenAid was
>> disposed of.
>>
>> IMO: Forget the KitchenAid Mixer for bread dough, it's not worth the
>> frustration one has to put up with this thing, no matter how much you
>> think you are saving.
>>
>> ------
>>
>> By M0nica L - usenet poster
>> Rank: Not rated
>> Rating: 0%, 0 votes
>>
>>
>> On 1 Apr 2006 11:28:01 -0800, BestBread <
>> There are lots of on-line vendors who carry a variety of mixers. Check
>> out
>> bizrate.com or google.
>>
>> However, a few thoughts. KitchenAid mixers will do a decent job on bread
>> doughs IF you read the manual and stay within their guidelines. Each
>> mixer
>> has a maximum amount of flour it is rated for. However, that is white
>> flour. If you are using whole wheat or rye, you need to cut that in half.
>> Next, the KA's have a limited duty cycle. They suggest you not knead too
>> long (check your manual for the limits here), and most also suggest no
>> more
>> than 2 batches back to back, followed by a 45 minute or so cool-down
>> period
>> (again, check your manual). I don't know why the call some of their
>> machines "professional" or "commercial" when they clearly aren't, but
>> they
>> are adequate for most home mixing purposes.
>>
>> ....
>

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no:

>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:

Okay, Plan B.

Do you know someone on this side of the border who could order the machine
and accept shipment?

Barry

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:SMfOi.1852$Da.1583@pd7urf1no:

>
> "Janet B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in message
>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no...
>>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600
>>> mixer in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and
>>> prices for this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice
>>> what it cost in US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar
>>> being equal this is rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I
>>> have checked (Circuit City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the
>>> walk-in stores. After online purchase they ship it to US addresses
>>> only directly from Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has
>>> some kind of restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to
>>> the Canadian customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers
>>> ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold
>>> as a new one.
>> Are you able to shop here?
>> http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/app.detail $384.80 plus 15.22
>> shipping and handling
>>
>>
>
> Yes, and it looks like they can ship to my place for $19. However
> there is a disclaimer in Shipping FAQ:
>
> "Canadian customers will receive their orders through the Canadian
> Post. In addition, we currently cannot ship the following types of
> items to Canada: perishable items, food, cosmetics, items weighing
> over 66 pounds, or items shipping directly from the manufacturer."
>
> Got to find out where is it shipped from
>

Have you looked at the Electrolux 2000? It's about $500 here, but it's
a bigger machine. Maybe not as versitle, but a better machine for
bread, I'm told. Since it's made in Europe, you may have a shot at
getting it through the Canadian importer and getting a decent price.

Barry

"Arek Niski" > wrote in message
news:SMfOi.1852$Da.1583@pd7urf1no...
>
> "Janet B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in message
>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no...
>>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online
>>> purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's
>>> warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of restriction in place
>>> preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian customers. Of course there
>>> is EBay but not many sellers ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up
>>> with refurbish unit sold as a new one.
>> Are you able to shop here? http://www.qvc.com/qic/qvcapp.aspx/app.detail
>> $384.80 plus 15.22 shipping and handling
>>
>>
>
> Yes, and it looks like they can ship to my place for $19. However there is
> a disclaimer in Shipping FAQ:
>
> "Canadian customers will receive their orders through the Canadian Post.
> In addition, we currently cannot ship the following types of items to
> Canada: perishable items, food, cosmetics, items weighing over 66 pounds,
> or items shipping directly from the manufacturer."
>
> Got to find out where is it shipped from
Good luck with it. I'm very happy with my machine (KA Pro 600). I really
love the new bread hook design. It kneads more thoroughly faster and dough
doesn't climb the hook. I couldn't believe how easily it pulled dough
together.
Janet

Hello "Arek Niski" & all;

Look, I live in Everett...not as close as the border for you, but I'm
willing to have it sent here, and you can pick it up at your leisure. Let
me know off-list if I can be of any assistance...


Regards all,
Dusty -- Everett, Wa.


"Arek Niski" > wrote in message
news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no...
>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
>>> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
>>> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
>>> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
>>> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
>>> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
>>> one.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Is there a Target store just over the border? Target advertises it for
>> $399 on their web site.
>>
>> There may be more stores that carry it, but this is the one I checked.
>>
>> Barry
>
>
> Yes, there is one approx. 20 miles distance from the border. But I have
> looked on the Target web site and when I mouse-click on the mixer picture
> it pops a window with following info:
>
> "Usually ships within 1 to 2 days.
> This item is available online, but is not available in stores.
> This item can only be shipped to the 50 states. We regret it cannot be
> shipped to APO/FPO, or Puerto Rico."
>
> Nice.
> BTW I have also noticed that they have Bosch Universal Kitchen Machine for
> $ 330.I would like to be able to make a single batch of bread out of 900
> gal of wheat and 900 g of rye flour home milled. So, which one of these
> two mixers would be a better deal? However there is going to be the same
> problem like with KA. No shipping to Canada

"Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
6.158...
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
> news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no:
>
>>
>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>> 6.158...
>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>
> Okay, Plan B.
>
> Do you know someone on this side of the border who could order the machine
> and accept shipment?
>
> Barry
>

Yea, I have a friend of the friend. And there is always ACCESS USA, paid
service that "gives" US address and credit card to anyone in the World.
Little pricey thou. But still cant make my mind which mixer to chose. Like I
said I need it to be able to knead 1800g of home milled flour (50/50
wheat/rye) max two batches one after another. And would like to keep price
under $400.

"Dusty da baker" > wrote in message
...
> Hello "Arek Niski" & all;
>
> Look, I live in Everett...not as close as the border for you, but I'm
> willing to have it sent here, and you can pick it up at your leisure. Let
> me know off-list if I can be of any assistance...
>
>
> Regards all,
> Dusty -- Everett, Wa.

Thank you for an offer. I will keep it in mind.

>
>
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in message
> news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no...
>>
>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>> 6.158...
>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>>
>>>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>>>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>>>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>>>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>>>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>>>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
>>>> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
>>>> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
>>>> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
>>>> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
>>>> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a Target store just over the border? Target advertises it for
>>> $399 on their web site.
>>>
>>> There may be more stores that carry it, but this is the one I checked.
>>>
>>> Barry
>>
>>
>> Yes, there is one approx. 20 miles distance from the border. But I have
>> looked on the Target web site and when I mouse-click on the mixer picture
>> it pops a window with following info:
>>
>> "Usually ships within 1 to 2 days.
>> This item is available online, but is not available in stores.
>> This item can only be shipped to the 50 states. We regret it cannot be
>> shipped to APO/FPO, or Puerto Rico."
>>
>> Nice.
>> BTW I have also noticed that they have Bosch Universal Kitchen Machine
>> for $ 330.I would like to be able to make a single batch of bread out of
>> 900 gal of wheat and 900 g of rye flour home milled. So, which one of
>> these two mixers would be a better deal? However there is going to be the
>> same problem like with KA. No shipping to Canada
>
>

Arek Niski wrote:
> "Sam" > wrote in message
>
>>
>> Why do you want this type of mixer for bread (assuming your intention due
>> to posting on this group)?
>>
>
> Because I have red an opinion that it can handle batch of 1800 g (14 cups)
> of whole wheat and rye flour with no problem. And I have got tired of making
> 3 seperate batches of 2LB of dough in my bread machine.(This however had an
> advantage of being able to make 3 different loafs of bread at one session.)
> But as I have indicated in my other post I have also looked at Bosch
> Universal Kitchen Machine. Would it perform better than KA Pro 600? I have
> no preferences as long as it does the job and the price will be less than
> $400.
>
>
>
The dough amount on the movie or the web pages on the "starter doping"
was 625 g of bread flour (white) with 68 % hydration and the KA mixer (I
think it was a 650 - strongest model) started to smoke and had to be
turned off to prevent damage.

I don't know about the Bosch, but I assume it can handle much more dough
since it is a different mixing mechanism than the KA.

What I did not like about the Bosch was the post in the middle and (if I
remember right) there was something about bending.

But note, this was 5 years ago, looking at their (KA) web site now - the
largest "professional" model looks like it and it has the same wattage.

For me to buy the biggest KA model available at that time - it had the
bowl lifting mechanism, where the bowl was lifted up into the dough hook
- and finding it unusable for what I got it for was an eye-opener.
It was a permanent source of frustration. Big bowl for no use. The Magic
Mill (or whatever it's called now) I use easily for two 1500 g loafs (>
3600 g dough) and no more problem since then.

From their KA manual:
http://www.kitchenaid.com/assets/pdf...RE/9708307.pdf
> • Use Speed 2 to mix or knead yeast
> doughs. Use of any other speed
> creates high potential for unit
> failure.
> • NEVER use recipes calling for more
> than 14 cups all-purpose flour or
> 8 cups whole wheat flour when
> making dough with a 6 quart
> mixer.
> • NEVER use recipes calling for more
> than 12 cups all-purpose flour or
> 6 cups whole wheat flour when
> making dough with a 5 quart
> mixer.
Now, in comparison, the numbers below are from a Hobart 200 mixer to
demonstrate the very strong dependency of capacity on hydration - they
call it AR - absorption rate:

Dough, Thin Pizza 40% AR § 9 lbs
(max. mix time 5 min.)

Dough, Med. Pizza 50% AR 10 lbs

Dough, Thick Pizza 60% AR 20 lbs

So - any capacity number on a mixer given without hydration is
practically useless IMO and you can assume that it's the highest
attainable value with unknown conditions.

Depending on your flour/hydration, with a KA 650 mixer, you may end up
with less capacity (2lbs) than you have now with your bread machine.

Disclaimer:
This is all my opinion, based on my experience with mixing bread dough
in a KA 650 Professional and a Magic Mill mixer.
KA products may be good for certain purposes which but not fit my needs
in this particular case.

Sam

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.37.1191818351.25616.rec.food.sourdoug ...
> Arek Niski wrote:
>> "Sam" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> Why do you want this type of mixer for bread (assuming your intention
>>> due to posting on this group)?
>>>
>>
>> Because I have red an opinion that it can handle batch of 1800 g (14
>> cups) of whole wheat and rye flour with no problem. And I have got tired
>> of making 3 seperate batches of 2LB of dough in my bread machine.(This
>> however had an advantage of being able to make 3 different loafs of bread
>> at one session.) But as I have indicated in my other post I have also
>> looked at Bosch Universal Kitchen Machine. Would it perform better than
>> KA Pro 600? I have no preferences as long as it does the job and the
>> price will be less than $400.
>>
>>
>>
> The dough amount on the movie or the web pages on the "starter doping" was
> 625 g of bread flour (white) with 68 % hydration and the KA mixer (I think
> it was a 650 - strongest model) started to smoke and had to be turned off
> to prevent damage.
>
> I don't know about the Bosch, but I assume it can handle much more dough
> since it is a different mixing mechanism than the KA.
>
> What I did not like about the Bosch was the post in the middle and (if I
> remember right) there was something about bending.
>
> But note, this was 5 years ago, looking at their (KA) web site now - the
> largest "professional" model looks like it and it has the same wattage.
>
> For me to buy the biggest KA model available at that time - it had the
> bowl lifting mechanism, where the bowl was lifted up into the dough hook -
> and finding it unusable for what I got it for was an eye-opener.
> It was a permanent source of frustration. Big bowl for no use. The Magic
> Mill (or whatever it's called now) I use easily for two 1500 g loafs (>
> 3600 g dough) and no more problem since then.
>
> From their KA manual:
> http://www.kitchenaid.com/assets/pdf...RE/9708307.pdf
>> • Use Speed 2 to mix or knead yeast
>> doughs. Use of any other speed
>> creates high potential for unit
>> failure.
>> • NEVER use recipes calling for more
>> than 14 cups all-purpose flour or
>> 8 cups whole wheat flour when
>> making dough with a 6 quart
>> mixer.
>> • NEVER use recipes calling for more
>> than 12 cups all-purpose flour or
>> 6 cups whole wheat flour when
>> making dough with a 5 quart
>> mixer.
> Now, in comparison, the numbers below are from a Hobart 200 mixer to
> demonstrate the very strong dependency of capacity on hydration - they
> call it AR - absorption rate:
>
> Dough, Thin Pizza 40% AR § 9 lbs
> (max. mix time 5 min.)
>
> Dough, Med. Pizza 50% AR 10 lbs
>
> Dough, Thick Pizza 60% AR 20 lbs
>
> So - any capacity number on a mixer given without hydration is practically
> useless IMO and you can assume that it's the highest attainable value with
> unknown conditions.
>
> Depending on your flour/hydration, with a KA 650 mixer, you may end up
> with less capacity (2lbs) than you have now with your bread machine.
>
> Disclaimer:
> This is all my opinion, based on my experience with mixing bread dough in
> a KA 650 Professional and a Magic Mill mixer.
> KA products may be good for certain purposes which but not fit my needs in
> this particular case.
>
> Sam

Lets see, I have 3000 gram of dough with hydration of 57%. It contains whole
wheat and whole rye flour and 60 gram of extra wheat bran. Question is which
one mixer I can select for the job. Is KA Pro 600 to weak for this task?

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:

>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>>
>>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>>> 6.158...
>>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>
>> Okay, Plan B.
>>
>> Do you know someone on this side of the border who could order the
>> machine and accept shipment?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>
> Yea, I have a friend of the friend. And there is always ACCESS USA,
> paid service that "gives" US address and credit card to anyone in the
> World. Little pricey thou. But still cant make my mind which mixer to
> chose. Like I said I need it to be able to knead 1800g of home milled
> flour (50/50 wheat/rye) max two batches one after another. And would
> like to keep price under $400.
>
>

A few thoughts on mixers. (Sure to start a long discussion.)

1. I have had a KA for a long time and it works perfectly. I make
bread and my wife makes cookies, brownies, cakes, etc. (The good
stuff!)

2. I take care of my machine and change the grease in the gear head
every year or so.

3. I have used a lot of Bosch power tools over the years. They are
good tools, but service is a real problem. The problems with parts and
service for Bosch power tools pale in comparison to the problems you
will probably have with service on Bosch mixers, since there are so few
of them around. KA service is not a problem. Now, these are USA
experiences, Canada may be different. However, I prefer Porter Cable or
Milwaukee tools over most Bosch tools, anyway.

4. Take a look at my web site, www.barryharmon.com, and note the large
batches of dough I make with a very small KA.

5. Your 1800 gms translates into 64 ounces, which at 60% hydration
means you'll be mixing 100 ounces of dough, more or less. That's a lot
for most mixers. If you mean that the final dough is 1800 gms, then
there's no problem with the KA or any other.

6. I continue to believe that the "problem" with KA mixers is the
operators, not the machine. Too much flour, too little water, etc. My
KA has mixed non-stop for 5 hours on all sorts of doughs and never
missed a beat. These batches are anywhere from 60 to 100 ounces. My
only constraint is the size of the bowl. I sometimes have to resort to
split batch mixing for very large batches, but that's not a problem.

7. I really don't know about Whirlpool "cheapening" the KA; may be an
urban legend. Having said that, most power tools are less rugged these
days than in the old days (30-50 years ago), since the advent of
plastics and electronic controls. A lot of tools are not made to be
repaired, either.

8. The tales of "plastic gears" in the KA gear head are true. KA puts
in a gear that will break if the machine is overloaded to the point the
motor will fail. The part is about $4 and takes about 30 minutes to
replace. But, and this is a big but, I've had mine fail only twice,
both times on very large batches of very stiff doughs -- around 45%
hydration. The mixer almost stalled a few times, I wasn't paying
attention, and the gear stripped. If someone is not measuring the flour
properly, a "6 cup" recipe can easily have 40 ounces of flour, maybe as
much as 50 ounces, which, with 18-20 ounces of water, is a disaster for
just about any mixer.

Bottom line, the KA is a very good choice for most home bakers. The
Bosch may be a good machine, but it's a little too rare for my taste.

Barry

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:

>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>>
>>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>>> 6.158...
>>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>
>> Okay, Plan B.
>>
>> Do you know someone on this side of the border who could order the
>> machine and accept shipment?
>>
>> Barry
>>
>
> Yea, I have a friend of the friend. And there is always ACCESS USA,
> paid service that "gives" US address and credit card to anyone in the
> World. Little pricey thou. But still cant make my mind which mixer to
> chose. Like I said I need it to be able to knead 1800g of home milled
> flour (50/50 wheat/rye) max two batches one after another. And would
> like to keep price under $400.
>

Just looked at the product descrition of the Bosch and noted several
things.

They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.

The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
split, etc.

Just two random thoughts.

Barry

Barry Harmon wrote:
> 6. I continue to believe that the "problem" with KA mixers is the
> operators, not the machine. Too much flour, too little water, etc.
Nope, IMO that's not the underlying main reason - but you sure are
entitled to your opinion.

The main issue with the KA 650 is the wrong tool to knead decent (3000 -
4000 g) amounts of bread dough and the manufacturer promoting an image
of quality and reliability suggesting this may be possible.

It is a planetary mixer where the mixing tool - dough hook, needs to cut
through the dough and slam it around - requires a lot of power.

The KA 650 is not strong enough to turn the motor at low speed for the
duration of mixing time of around 10-20 minutes for those amounts of
dough nor dough amounts anywhere close to the manufacturer suggested
numbers of 14 cups.

The problems I encountered with the KA was not stripping the gear but
overheating of the electric motor . The mixer turns very slow under a
load within the manufacture recommended load amounts, the cooling air
through the motor is diminished and the motor block gets hot. There is
an overheat switch which disables the unit until it cools down which is
a major pain in the rear. One has to interrupt the mixing process and
wait...
I found the unit to get so hot to start smoking when kneading even small
dough amounts, 625 g - as shown on a short video clip.

Due to this lack of performance, the KA 650 mixer left the house and I
am using a Magic Mill mixer for over 5 years now mixing bread doughs of
typically 3500 g.

The Bosch and Magic Mill have a different mixing mechanism where the
bowl turns and the mixing tool - dough hook - is stationary which does
not require so much power to mix dough. This principle is also used on
large industrial bread dough mixers (spiral mixers).

A planetary mixer able to mix 3000 - 4000 g bread dough would cost
significantly more - probably around $ 2000.

Next time I make dough, I will make a video clip to show the amount
mixed, post it on youtube and I challenge every KA mixer user to show a
similar result.

Sam

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:

> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
> one.
>
>

I was just in Macy's. They had stacks of the KA Pro 600 on sale for
US$399.99. Are there Macy's stores out there?

Barry

"Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
6.158...
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
> news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:
>
>>
>
> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>
> The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
> fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
> machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
> split, etc.
>
> Just two random thoughts.
>
I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme but in
kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no sign of
strain while operating.
My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl. The
dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl doesn't
have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is on my list to
buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
Graham
Graham

Arek Niski wrote:
> "Sam" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.36.1191806015.25616.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
>> Why do you want this type of mixer for bread (assuming your intention due
>> to posting on this group)?
>>
>
> Because I have red an opinion that it can handle batch of 1800 g (14 cups)
> of whole wheat and rye flour with no problem. And I have got tired of making
> 3 seperate batches of 2LB of dough in my bread machine.(This however had an
> advantage of being able to make 3 different loafs of bread at one session.)
> But as I have indicated in my other post I have also looked at Bosch
> Universal Kitchen Machine. Would it perform better than KA Pro 600? I have
> no preferences as long as it does the job and the price will be less than
> $400.
>
>
According to the KitchenAid web site, the Pro 600 is rated as having a
"flour power" of 14 cups. However, if you look carefully at the site,
you'll find that is for white flour. If you use whole grain flour, you
will have to cut that rating in half.

As Samartha said, the current generation of KitchenAid mixers have an
unenviable reputation. If given one, I would sell it on eBay at once.
And I am a happy KA45SS owner, but I bought mine in 1978.

Having used a Bosch Universal, I don't recommend them either. It was
flimsily made, especially the bowl and the beaters. I felt it heated
dough to much. I sold mine on eBay. That said, I know many people are
happy with them. I just wasn't one of them.

I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic
Mill. I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it
may not fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra
money. A friend of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and
decided to get a Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on
eBay and she was ordering a second DLX.

Good luck,
Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Elvis isn't dead he's waiting for COMPSURF to finish!

Mike Avery wrote:
>
> I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic
> Mill. I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it
> may not fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra
> money. A friend of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and
> decided to get a Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on
> eBay and she was ordering a second DLX.
>
Since there has been discussion of mixer capacity, I'll throw this in.
The DLX was just upgraded to have a 700 watt motor. This is the model I
have. I have used it to make batches of 18 bagels, which is about 2,300
grams of VERY tough dough. The mixer did not complain. I routinely mix
sourdough starter in it - up to 6,000 grams at a time. However, the
starter is a very easy thing to mix, since it is more of a batter than a
dough.

I've made up to 4,000 grams of white sandwich bread (around 65%
hydration) at a time, with no problems.

Just to play devil's advocate here, have you considered not using a
mixer? I usually don't use my mixers, except to make starters, or when
I am doing test bakes. Instead I use a stretch and fold technique I
have found to be very easy. I have scaled the technique to do as few as
1 loaf or as many as 26 1.5lb loaves of bread at a time with no real
problems. At the upper end, that is about 20,020 grams of dough before
baking. I describe the technique at
http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html

It works with wet or dry doughs, with white flour or whole wheat. I
don't recommend it for doughs with high concentrations of rye flour -
say about 30% or so.

Have fun,
Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Grandpa's
Out with
Junior's date
Old technique
With brand new bait
Burma-Shave

Hi Mike!

glad to hear from you - I was kind of waiting for your input because I
knew you had a Bosch at one point and weren't too happy.

I have a question for you. Since you now have the DLX/Magic Mill :-) and
in your bakery you had a Hobart which is a planetary mixer.

What was the Hobart model and how would you compare the capacity of your
former Hobart and your current DLX?

Sam


Mike Avery wrote:
>
> According to the KitchenAid web site, the Pro 600 is rated as having a
> "flour power" of 14 cups. However, if you look carefully at the site,
> you'll find that is for white flour. If you use whole grain flour, you
> will have to cut that rating in half.
>
> As Samartha said, the current generation of KitchenAid mixers have an
> unenviable reputation. If given one, I would sell it on eBay at once.
> And I am a happy KA45SS owner, but I bought mine in 1978.
>
> Having used a Bosch Universal, I don't recommend them either. It was
> flimsily made, especially the bowl and the beaters. I felt it heated
> dough to much. I sold mine on eBay. That said, I know many people are
> happy with them. I just wasn't one of them.
>
> I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic
> Mill. I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it
> may not fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra
> money. A friend of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and
> decided to get a Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on
> eBay and she was ordering a second DLX.
>
> Good luck,
> Mike
>
>
>

Mike Avery wrote:
>
> Since there has been discussion of mixer capacity, I'll throw this in.
> The DLX was just upgraded to have a 700 watt motor. This is the model I
> have. I have used it to make batches of 18 bagels, which is about 2,300
> grams of VERY tough dough. The mixer did not complain. I routinely mix
> sourdough starter in it - up to 6,000 grams at a time. However, the
> starter is a very easy thing to mix, since it is more of a batter than a
> dough.
>
>
Did they increase the bowl size as well on the newer model?

What I find the limiting factor is bowl size when the flour starts
overflowing and that happens on my machine around 4000 g dough weight
where I have to be careful how I feed the flour.

From a power/overheating viewpoint, there was never a problem with this
mixer. There is warm air coming out of the slots at the bottom but with
a good air flow.

At one point, I had to readjust the dough hook gap between dough hook
and bowl bottom.

For softer doughs (pumpernickel) or smaller amounts < 700 g I use the
roller because the dough hook does not seem to work very well.


Sam

Sam wrote:
> Hi Mike!
>
> glad to hear from you - I was kind of waiting for your input because I
> knew you had a Bosch at one point and weren't too happy.
>
> I have a question for you. Since you now have the DLX/Magic Mill :-) and
> in your bakery you had a Hobart which is a planetary mixer.
>
> What was the Hobart model and how would you compare the capacity of your
> former Hobart and your current DLX?
>
Ahhh.... no real comparison. The Hobart was a 30 quart mixer, I think
it was an A-300, and I could do about 21 or 22 loaves at a time for
"normal" hydration dough, and there wasn't much of a loss of capacity
when I did whole grain breads. As you can imagine, it was large and
heavy. One person could not lift it, and could move it by sliding it or
using a dolly. Not a good comparison to a KitchenAid, Bosch or
Electrolux. The Hobart was a commercial grade machine, the others are
home grade machines. The Electrolux can do about 5 or 6 loaves that size.

The hydration of the dough was the key issue on mixer capacity, and the
capacity varied from as little as 9 pounds of stiff pizza dough to as
much as 30 or so pounds of regular bread dough. The amount of flour
varied a lot, all of which makes me believe the KitchenAid "flour power"
measure is too simplistic to be meaningful. I believe it was created so
an "average housewife" could understand it. Having seen recent
KitchenAid mixers, I do not have any real confidence that I could make a
bagel or pizza dough using the rated 14 cups of flour. At least, not often.

Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
She put
A bullet
Thru his hat
But he's had
Closer shaves than that
Burma-Shave

Sam wrote:
> Did they increase the bowl size as well on the newer model?
>

As far as I can tell, no.

I think the increased power was more for marketing reasons than
technical necessity.
> What I find the limiting factor is bowl size when the flour starts
> overflowing and that happens on my machine around 4000 g dough weight
> where I have to be careful how I feed the flour.
>

Yeah... been there, got the messy countertop. When doing larger
batches, I put in all the liquid and about 1/2 the flour. Then when
that is mixed, I start adding the rest of the flour. I've had to do
that with some commercial mixers also.

> For softer doughs (pumpernickel) or smaller amounts < 700 g I use the
> roller because the dough hook does not seem to work very well.
>
I have yet to use the roller, just the dough hook. Of course, I am
usually exploring the upper end of the mixer's capacity.

Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Always remember
On any trip
Keep two things
Within your grip
Your steering wheel and
Burma-Shave

Arek Niski wrote:
>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>> 6.158...
>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>> news:eJeOi.1881$th2.445@pd7urf3no:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>>>> 6.158...
>>>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>>>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>>
>>> Okay, Plan B.
>>>
>>> Do you know someone on this side of the border who could order the
>>> machine and accept shipment?
>>>
>>> Barry
>>>
>>
>> Yea, I have a friend of the friend. And there is always ACCESS USA,
>> paid service that "gives" US address and credit card to anyone in
>> the World. Little pricey thou. But still cant make my mind which
>> mixer to chose. Like I said I need it to be able to knead 1800g of
>> home milled flour (50/50 wheat/rye) max two batches one after
>> another. And would like to keep price under $400.


Hi Arek,

Try the UPS store. We can get an address across the river for $5 per
delivery. Then we just have to pop over and pick it up.

Debbie
--�

Debbie

(Email account is valid but one I do not check. To email use above
name dot neill at sympatico dot ca)

"Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
...
....
> There are a whole bunch of "bed bath and beyond" stores in washington,
> including this one
>
> Vancouver Plaza Store #216
> 7809-B Vancouver Plaza Drive, Unit 200
> Vancouver, WA 98662
> (360) 882-7124
> Store Hours*:
> Monday-Friday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
> Saturday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
> Sunday: 10:00am - 7:00pm
>
>
> View a map of this store. Get Point-to-Point driving directions.
>
> I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.
Sorry! But you presumed wrong. Vancouver, Washington is within spitting
distance of Portland, Oregon...(:-o)!

I'm sure there are better places to send things, but I have already offered
our Canadian friend the use of my addy in Everett...still a bit of a
drive...but A LOT closer than Portland, Oregon....(:-{})!


L8r all,
Dusty

>
> Otherwise see
> http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/bedb...Search=WA&BTS=
>
>

"graham" > wrote in message
news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...
>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>>
>>
>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
>> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
>> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
>> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>>
>> The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
>> fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
>> machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
>> split, etc.
>>
>> Just two random thoughts.
>>
> I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme but
> in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no sign of
> strain while operating.
> My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl. The
> dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl doesn't
> have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is on my list
> to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
> Graham


Why 2004 and not 2005?
Or were you just jesting?
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...
>>
>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>> 6.158...
>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>> news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
>>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
>>> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
>>> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
>>> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>>>
>>> The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
>>> fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
>>> machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
>>> split, etc.
>>>
>>> Just two random thoughts.
>>>
>> I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme but
>> in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no sign
>> of strain while operating.
>> My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl. The
>> dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl doesn't
>> have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is on my list
>> to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
>> Graham
>
>
> Why 2004 and not 2005?
> Or were you just jesting?
> Dee Dee
The 2004s have only been released recently. The 2005s will not be available
until next fall and their prices will be out of sight.
Graham

"graham" > wrote in message
news:f5DOi.3888$th2.3714@pd7urf3no...
>
> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "graham" > wrote in message
>> news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...
>>>
>>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>>> 6.158...
>>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>>> news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
>>>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
>>>> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
>>>> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60%
>>>> dough
>>>> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>>>>
>>>> The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
>>>> fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
>>>> machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
>>>> split, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Just two random thoughts.
>>>>
>>> I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme
>>> but in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no
>>> sign of strain while operating.
>>> My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl. The
>>> dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl
>>> doesn't have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is on
>>> my list to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
>>> Graham
>>
>>
>> Why 2004 and not 2005?
>> Or were you just jesting?
>> Dee Dee
> The 2004s have only been released recently. The 2005s will not be
> available until next fall and their prices will be out of sight.
> Graham
I've noticed that they are selling (Pre-arrival) Bordeaux 2005 on several
sites. It shows actual bottles on hand and for how much is for sale.
The vintage year for 2004 is in the 82-88 points range, whereas 2005 is in
the 95-98 point range.
I would wait. Save your money.

Are you posting to the wine newsgroup, I see a Graham on there ever so
often. I'm the dumb one that is accused of drinking Charles Shaw when I say
I don't like something, or asking a question that they can get off on
pontificating. Good group, tho.
Dee Dee

"Dee Dee" > wrote in message
...
>
> "graham" > wrote in message
> news:f5DOi.3888$th2.3714@pd7urf3no...
>>
>> "Dee Dee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "graham" > wrote in message
>>> news:PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no...
>>>>
>>>> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
>>>> 6.158...
>>>>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>>>>> news:yfiOi.2076$th2.370@pd7urf3no:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
>>>>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
>>>>> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
>>>>> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60%
>>>>> dough
>>>>> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>>>>>
>>>>> The drive mechanism is a belt drive. The sales pitch says it doesn't
>>>>> fail. I don't know if that's real or not. I've been around a lot of
>>>>> machinery for a long time and I've seen belts stretch, slip, fray,
>>>>> split, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just two random thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>> I have one and the capacity is large. I've never gone to the extreme
>>>> but in kneading 2-3kg batches, the motor barely gets warm and shows no
>>>> sign of strain while operating.
>>>> My only complaint is the design of the standard issue plastic bowl.
>>>> The dough creeps up the central pillar and gets into it. The SS bowl
>>>> doesn't have that and uses a different paddle system. The SS bowl is
>>>> on my list to buy after I have bought enough 2004 Bordeaux{:-)
>>>> Graham
>>>
>>>
>>> Why 2004 and not 2005?
>>> Or were you just jesting?
>>> Dee Dee
>> The 2004s have only been released recently. The 2005s will not be
>> available until next fall and their prices will be out of sight.
>> Graham
> I've noticed that they are selling (Pre-arrival) Bordeaux 2005 on several
> sites. It shows actual bottles on hand and for how much is for sale.

Probably what they have ordered or have been allocated.

> The vintage year for 2004 is in the 82-88 points range, whereas 2005 is in
> the 95-98 point range.

There are lots of wines in the 90s for 2004. It was a decent year but is
overshadowed by 2005 which some are saying is the best for 50 years (or
similar hyperbole).

> I would wait. Save your money.

It's a bit late for that{:-)

>
> Are you posting to the wine newsgroup, I see a Graham on there ever so
> often. I'm the dumb one that is accused of drinking Charles Shaw when I
> say I don't like something, or asking a question that they can get off on
> pontificating. Good group, tho.

Yes, I post occasionally but am a bit intimidated by the regular clique.
Their apparent drinking and eating habits must mean that they have severe
weight problems. They also seem to have a lot of disposable income.
However, they can be very helpful.
Graham

in article PTwOi.3652$Da.3185@pd7urf1no, graham at wrote on
07/10/08 14:00:

> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough, or
>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds of
>> dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I can't
>> imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of 60% dough
>> is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.

If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12 pounds
but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a practical amount
for a 6 quart bowl.

B

Bill wrote:
> If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12 pounds
> but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a practical amount
> for a 6 quart bowl.
>
IMO, it very much depends on the mix/knead mechanism and hydration. My
Magic Mill bowl holds 7 l and I can mix over 4000 g of regular bread
dough (40/60 rye/white mix). If I use more or close to 4000 g, it's
pushing it in regards to overflow and I have to be careful how I load
the flour. But it's possible.

I think you may derive your numbers and practical amount estimates from
a KA type planetary mixer.

Your practical amount of 3.8 lbs is 1.73 kg and that's about 1/2 of my
regular loads of 3.2 - 3.5 kg which are practical with the Magic Mill I
have.

With higher hydration and coarse flour dough (Pumpernickel), I mixed
over 5000 g dough which was not dramatic in any way - that's 11 lbs and
I think, I can push it 1 lb more so....

Also, I am not sure, how they measure bowl size - I filled in 7 l of
water and it was full to the brim. Maybe it's a 6 l bowl - 1 l beer
stones have a mark at 1 l and can hold about 1" more.

Sam

> Hi Arek,
>
> Try the UPS store. We can get an address across the river for $5 per
> delivery. Then we just have to pop over and pick it up.
>
> Debbie

Is it PO Box or "regular" address.Many of US web stores will not send
anything to the PO Boxes. And there is also payment problem. What I have red
is that automatic check for address will not work on Canadian credit cards
on the US side.

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.4.1191878060.79045.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
> According to the KitchenAid web site, the Pro 600 is rated as having a
> "flour power" of 14 cups. However, if you look carefully at the site,
> you'll find that is for white flour. If you use whole grain flour, you
> will have to cut that rating in half.

This is correct. I downloaded a manual for KA Pro 600. It explicitly says
one can use only 8 cups of whole flour and I do not use any white flour. So
it looks like KA is out.

>
> As Samartha said, the current generation of KitchenAid mixers have an
> unenviable reputation. If given one, I would sell it on eBay at once.
> And I am a happy KA45SS owner, but I bought mine in 1978.
>
> Having used a Bosch Universal, I don't recommend them either. It was
> flimsily made, especially the bowl and the beaters. I felt it heated
> dough to much. I sold mine on eBay. That said, I know many people are
> happy with them. I just wasn't one of them.

Some people described a problem with a lid poping out bacause of the bowl
deformation under the stress from mixing havy dough. I checked some demo
movie how this mixer works. A host advised not to measure flour. Just keep
adding it and at the right proportion dough will start to form properly.
What then happens when somone wants to make wet dough (like for ciabata) or
stiff one (for free form fermentation)? Does it mean no proper kneading
action on this mixer? What I took for granted with my 2LBs bread machine
mixer that no matter how slack or stiff dough I made it could always get me
to the point I could finish dough by hand with an ease.

> I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic Mill.
> I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it may not
> fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra money. A friend
> of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and decided to get a
> Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on eBay and she was
> ordering a second DLX.

Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well? Little
pricey tho'.

> Good luck,
> Mike
>
>
> --
> Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
> part time baker ICQ 16241692
> networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
> wordsmith
> A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
> Elvis isn't dead he's waiting for COMPSURF to finish!

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.5.1191879145.79045.rec.food.sourdough @mail.otherwhen.com...
> Mike Avery wrote:
>>
>> I recently bought an Electrolux DLX mixer, formerly sold as a Magic Mill.
>> I find it a delight to use, and recommend it highly. However, it may not
>> fall in your $400 limit. Personally, I'd spend the extra money. A
>> friend of mine who also owns a DLX wanted a second mixer and decided to
>> get a Bosch to save money. Two days later, her Bosch was on eBay and she
>> was ordering a second DLX.
>>
> Since there has been discussion of mixer capacity, I'll throw this in.
> The DLX was just upgraded to have a 700 watt motor. This is the model I
> have. I have used it to make batches of 18 bagels, which is about 2,300
> grams of VERY tough dough. The mixer did not complain. I routinely mix
> sourdough starter in it - up to 6,000 grams at a time. However, the
> starter is a very easy thing to mix, since it is more of a batter than a
> dough.
>
> I've made up to 4,000 grams of white sandwich bread (around 65% hydration)
> at a time, with no problems.
>
> Just to play devil's advocate here, have you considered not using a mixer?
> I usually don't use my mixers, except to make starters, or when I am doing
> test bakes. Instead I use a stretch and fold technique I have found to be
> very easy. I have scaled the technique to do as few as 1 loaf or as many
> as 26 1.5lb loaves of bread at a time with no real problems. At the upper
> end, that is about 20,020 grams of dough before baking. I describe the
> technique at http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html
>
> It works with wet or dry doughs, with white flour or whole wheat. I don't
> recommend it for doughs with high concentrations of rye flour - say about
> 30% or so.

I do not make any bread with less than 50% rye. I oryginaly am a Northen
European and any bread with less than half rye won't satisfy my taste buds



>
> Have fun,
> Mike
>
> --
> Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
> part time baker ICQ 16241692
> networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
> wordsmith
> Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
> Grandpa's
> Out with
> Junior's date
> Old technique
> With brand new bait
> Burma-Shave

"Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
6.158...
> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>
>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
>> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
>> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
>> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
>> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
>> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
>> one.
>>
>>
>
> I was just in Macy's. They had stacks of the KA Pro 600 on sale for
> US$399.99. Are there Macy's stores out there?
>
> Barry

Yes, very close to a Target store (at the same mall). Thanks.

"Del Cecchi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
> 6.158...
>> "Arek Niski" > wrote in
>> news:McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no:
>>
>>> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
>>> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
>>> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
>>> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
>>> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
>>> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After
>>> online purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from
>>> Kitchen Aid's warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of
>>> restriction in place preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian
>>> customers. Of course there is EBay but not many sellers ship to
>>> Canada. And I do not want to end up with refurbish unit sold as a new
>>> one.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I was just in Macy's. They had stacks of the KA Pro 600 on sale for
>> US$399.99. Are there Macy's stores out there?
>>
>> Barry
>
> There are a whole bunch of "bed bath and beyond" stores in washington,
> including this one
>
> Vancouver Plaza Store #216
> 7809-B Vancouver Plaza Drive, Unit 200
> Vancouver, WA 98662
> (360) 882-7124
> Store Hours*:
> Monday-Friday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
> Saturday: 9:00am - 9:00pm
> Sunday: 10:00am - 7:00pm
>
>
> View a map of this store. Get Point-to-Point driving directions.
>
> I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.

That is correct, about 300 miles distance.

>
> Otherwise see
> http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/bedb...Search=WA&BTS=
>
>

Mike Avery wrote:

>
> Just to play devil's advocate here, have you considered not using a
> mixer? I usually don't use my mixers, except to make starters, or when
> I am doing test bakes. Instead I use a stretch and fold technique I
> have found to be very easy. I have scaled the technique to do as few as
> 1 loaf or as many as 26 1.5lb loaves of bread at a time with no real
> problems. At the upper end, that is about 20,020 grams of dough before
> baking. I describe the technique at
> http://www.sourdoughhome.com/stretchandfold.html
>
> Have fun,
> Mike
>
How large of oven does it take to bake 26 x 1.5lb loaves>
Do you bake all 26 at one time?
If not do the other loaves over_proof while waiting to be bake?

Joe Umstead