Mike Avery wrote:


> Ahhh.... no real comparison. The Hobart was a 30 quart mixer, I think
> it was an A-300, and I could do about 21 or 22 loaves at a time for
> "normal" hydration dough, and there wasn't much of a loss of capacity
> when I did whole grain breads. As you can imagine, it was large and
> heavy. One person could not lift it, and could move it by sliding it or
> using a dolly. Not a good comparison to a KitchenAid, Bosch or
> Electrolux. The Hobart was a commercial grade machine, the others are
> home grade machines. The Electrolux can do about 5 or 6 loaves that size.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
I have a Berkel Mixer Model BX-20 which is a 20 ouart mixer which they say
can mix 15lbs. @ 66% AR. I never mix that much dought as my oven can not
hold that much. Have mix 4500 gr. and never miss a beat. Pricy throw.

Joe Umstead

Joe Umstead wrote:
> How large of oven does it take to bake 26 x 1.5lb loaves>
> Do you bake all 26 at one time?
> If not do the other loaves over_proof while waiting to be bake?
>
I have two ovens at my disposal. One is an ancient Wolf convection oven
(I do NOT recommend convection ovens for bread, but it's what I have)
that can hold three sheet pans, each of which can have 3 loaves on it.
I also have an ancient Southbend range/oven that can handle one more pan
of 3 loaves.

All told, I can bake 12 loaves at a time, or about 24 loaves per hour.
The half-hour of additional wait is well within the tolerance of the
breads I am making.

Best wishes,
Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
It said "Insert disk #3", but only two will fit!!

"

>> I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.
>
> That is correct, about 300 miles distance.
>
>>


Just across the river from the People's Republic of Portland. :-)

This could get interesting. Newark NJ as a neighbor of Newark DE, Boston
MA in the Boston Mountains, Portland Me and Portland OR as neighbors, Oh
Boy!

Barry

Arek Niski wrote:
> Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well? Little
> pricey tho'.
>
>
made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the
"roller" works better than the dough hook.
Sam

Hey, check out www.Amazon.com for Kitchenaid Pro 600. There
you can get decals for your fancyass mixer to make it look like a
classic retro hot-rod.

Dick Adams wrote:
> Hey, check out www.Amazon.com for Kitchenaid Pro 600. There
> you can get decals for your fancyass mixer to make it look like a
> classic retro hot-rod.
>

Yeah - and it then can do 1500 g of bread dough without smoking.

S.

> _______________________________________________
> Rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough
>
>

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:31:03 -0600, Sam
> wrote:

>Arek Niski wrote:
>> Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well? Little
>> pricey tho'.
>>
>>
>made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
>with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the
>"roller" works better than the dough hook.
>Sam


I never use the DLX dough hook. I always use the roller, even with
6-7+ lbs high hydration, whole grain dough.

Boron

In article <McbOi.1637$th2.92@pd7urf3no>, says...
> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer in
> the walk-in store in NW US?

I bought a K5-SS at "Kitchen Collection" at the Outlet Mall just off I-5
at exit 229 (Burlington).

Call Kitchen Collection to be sure they have the 600 in stock.

(360) 757-3136

Java

Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:31:03 -0600, Sam
> > wrote:
>
>
>> made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
>> with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the
>> "roller" works better than the dough hook
>>
>
>
> I never use the DLX dough hook. I always use the roller, even with
> 6-7+ lbs high hydration, whole grain dough.
>
Interesting. The manual leaves something to be desired. I had the
understanding that on larger batches the dough hook was preferred. 7
pounds would be in the neighborhood of 3,200 grams and I usually do
something in the neighborhood of 4,000 to 5,000 grams (9 to 11 pounds).
With starters, I usually use the scraper and the dough hook. With most
other doughs, just the hook. This weekend I made two batches back to
back of around 2,600 grams of bagel dough using just the dough hook. It
worked VERY nicely - it was among the best developed bagel dough I've
worked with.

I guess I'll have to try the roller. I do wish the machine had a better
manual.

A question for DLX owners - if you use just the roller or just the hook,
why? If you use both at different times, again, why??

Thanks,
Mike


--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
ROFL: Reams Of Forgettable Learning...?

"Del Cecchi" > wrote in news:5mvtbqFfln0eU1
@mid.individual.net:

> I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.

You presume wrong. We are on the Oregon/Washington Border right across
from Portland.

"Arek Niski" > wrote in
news3HOi.4313$Da.2608@pd7urf1no:

> Is it PO Box or "regular" address.Many of US web stores will not send
> anything to the PO Boxes. And there is also payment problem. What I
> have red is that automatic check for address will not work on Canadian
> credit cards on the US side.
>

One of the selling points is that they will recieve shipments so that isn't
a problem. It's a PO Box basically, but the address is more like it's a
suite or an office in a building rather than a PO Box.

Bill > wrote in
:

>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough,
>> or
>>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds
>>> of dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I
>>> can't imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of
>>> 60% dough is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>
> If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12
> pounds but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a
> practical amount for a 6 quart bowl.
>

I routinely do 5# of dough in a DeLonghi 5 Qt, so I'd think a 6 could do
better than that.

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the nice reply.

I am a truck driver in the moving business, busy in sunner and take all
winter off, I enjoy baking and reading this news group.

Joe Umstead

ps: just install Slackware12.0_linux today (:-)




Mike Avery wrote:

> Joe Umstead wrote:
>> How large of oven does it take to bake 26 x 1.5lb loaves>
>> Do you bake all 26 at one time?
>> If not do the other loaves over_proof while waiting to be bake?
>>
> I have two ovens at my disposal. One is an ancient Wolf convection oven
> (I do NOT recommend convection ovens for bread, but it's what I have)
> that can hold three sheet pans, each of which can have 3 loaves on it.
> I also have an ancient Southbend range/oven that can handle one more pan
> of 3 loaves.
>
> All told, I can bake 12 loaves at a time, or about 24 loaves per hour.
> The half-hour of additional wait is well within the tolerance of the
> breads I am making.
>
> Best wishes,
> Mike
>
>

Joe Umstead wrote:
> ps: just install Slackware12.0_linux today (:-
The other partition on this laptop is running Ubunbtu. If you haven't
tried it, it is definitely worth a look.

If you are looking at server sorts of things, I have NO reservations
about recommending FreeBSD. The only downtime I;ve had is when we've
had power outages or I do a major system upgrade.
Mike

"M. Halbrook" > wrote in
. 130:

> Bill > wrote in
> :
>
>>> They claim a 6 quart bowl that can handle up to 12 pounds of dough,
>>> or
>>>> 192 ounces of dough. That doesn't seem possible to me. 12 pounds
>>>> of dough is a whole lot of dough. Just looking at the picture I
>>>> can't imagine 12 pounds of dough fitting in the bowl. 192 ounces of
>>>> 60% dough is 7.5 pounds of flour, or 1 1/2 bags of flour.
>>
>> If the bowl were filled to the brim with dough it would be about 12
>> pounds but totally impractical. About 3.8 pounds of dough is a
>> practical amount for a 6 quart bowl.
>>
>
> I routinely do 5# of dough in a DeLonghi 5 Qt, so I'd think a 6 could do
> better than that.
>

Heavens, I do 5 pounds in my little KA. Where did you get the figure of
3.8 pounds? The onlylimit I have is the %@*&$% new dough hook.

Barry

Arek Niski wrote:
>>> Hi Arek,
>>>
>>> Try the UPS store. We can get an address across the river for $5
>>> per delivery. Then we just have to pop over and pick it up.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>
>> Is it PO Box or "regular" address.Many of US web stores will not send
>> anything to the PO Boxes. And there is also payment problem. What I
>> have red is that automatic check for address will not work on
>> Canadian credit cards on the US side.

I have a friend who made a phone call to the UPS state side, got the correct
address, not a PO Box, and was told she would need to pay $5 when she came
to pick her package up. She called the supplier of the product she wanted,
told them she was in Canada but obtained a US address, gave then the
information including her Canadian phone number and obvious Canadian email
address (sympatico). She picks up the goods tomorrow.

Debbie

--�

Debbie

(Email account is valid but one I do not check. To email use above
name dot neill at sympatico dot ca)

"Debbie" > wrote in message
...
> I have a friend who made a phone call to the UPS state side, got the
> correct
> address, not a PO Box, and was told she would need to pay $5 when she came
> to pick her package up. She called the supplier of the product she
> wanted,
> told them she was in Canada but obtained a US address, gave then the
> information including her Canadian phone number and obvious Canadian email
> address (sympatico). She picks up the goods tomorrow.
>
> Debbie

Clever. But how did she paid for the goods? Quite often US merchants wont
accept Canadian credit cards. I for once had a problem like this with
Expedia.com. They kept sending me back to Expedia.ca although Canadian web
site had higher prices for flight to the same destination.

"Sam" > wrote in message
news:mailman.42.1191936666.25616.rec.food.sourdoug ...
> Arek Niski wrote:
>> Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well?
>> Little pricey tho'.
>>
>>
> made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
> with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the "roller"
> works better than the dough hook.
> Sam

What would be the smallest amount of dough to be properly mixed in this
mixer?

"Barry Harmon" > wrote in message
6.158...
> "
>
>>> I presume vancouver washington is near vancouver BC.
>>
>> That is correct, about 300 miles distance.
>>
>>>
>
>
> Just across the river from the People's Republic of Portland. :-)
>
> This could get interesting. Newark NJ as a neighbor of Newark DE, Boston
> MA in the Boston Mountains, Portland Me and Portland OR as neighbors, Oh
> Boy!
>
> Barry

But then what is 300 miles distance in Canada and US. It is different
story in Europe. Some of the countries stretch 300 miles across.

Arek Niski wrote:
> "Sam" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.42.1191936666.25616.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
>> Arek Niski wrote:
>>
>>> Would the DLX be beneficial for kneading 100% dark rye bread as well?
>>> Little pricey tho'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> made it - DLX does not care what you put in the bowl - although I found
>> with the pumpernickle (coarse, higher hydration) - 100 % rye, the "roller"
>> works better than the dough hook.
>> Sam
>>
>
> What would be the smallest amount of dough to be properly mixed in this
> mixer?
>
> _
What would be a reasonable amount - couple of 100 g? That should work
with the roller.

Small amounts as done with the KA/MM comparison (600-ish gram) I found
the dough hook not doing enough "press & stretch" in reasonable time
whereas the roller does.

Same with very stiff strudel dough - 500 g flour, 125 g butter, 125 g
milk - ish stuff. Roller does it with some help scratching the material
off, if it sticks too much and does not move.

As for rye - no problem at all since you have higher hydrations.

Sam

In article <6eYOi.7362$1y4.3129@pd7urf2no>,
says...
>
> "Debbie" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a friend who made a phone call to the UPS state side, got the
> > correct
> > address, not a PO Box, and was told she would need to pay $5 when she came
> > to pick her package up. She called the supplier of the product she
> > wanted,
> > told them she was in Canada but obtained a US address, gave then the
> > information including her Canadian phone number and obvious Canadian email
> > address (sympatico). She picks up the goods tomorrow.
> >
> > Debbie
>
> Clever. But how did she paid for the goods? Quite often US merchants wont
> accept Canadian credit cards. I for once had a problem like this with
> Expedia.com. They kept sending me back to Expedia.ca although Canadian web
> site had higher prices for flight to the same destination.
>
It should be no problem. I've made dozens of purchases from US web
retailers using a Canadian credit card. If they deliver to Canada, it's
no problem. For those who don't deliver to Canada, I've never had one
refuse a Canadian credit card if delivery is to a US address.

But watch out for UPS deliveries to Canada! Shipping UPS ground, you'll
pay an outrageous "customs brokerage charge" that could be 10 to 20% of
the value of the purchase! However, that can be avoided by having it
shipped UPS overnight or second day air. UPS doesn't charge customs
brokerage on these shipping options, and the shipping charge is LESS
than the customs brokerage fee they charge on ground shipments.

Java

"Espressopithecus (Java Man) >" >
wrote in message
ble.net...
> In article <6eYOi.7362$1y4.3129@pd7urf2no>,
>> But watch out for UPS deliveries to Canada! Shipping UPS ground, you'll
> pay an outrageous "customs brokerage charge" that could be 10 to 20% of
> the value of the purchase! However, that can be avoided by having it
> shipped UPS overnight or second day air. UPS doesn't charge customs
> brokerage on these shipping options, and the shipping charge is LESS
> than the customs brokerage fee they charge on ground shipments.
>
> Java
UPS is best avoided altogether!
Graham

Re Shipping, CAN, UPS, distances etc.

could that maybe put to rest?

got nothing to do with SD AFAIKS.

Original poster Arek Niski wrote:
>> This is correct. I downloaded a manual for KA Pro 600. It explicitly says
>> one can use only 8 cups of whole flour and I do not use any white flour. So
>> it looks like KA is out.
>>

Arek Niski wrote:
>> "Debbie" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I have a friend who made a phone call to the UPS state side, got the
>>> correct
>>> address, not a PO Box, and was told she would need to pay $5 when
>>> she came to pick her package up. She called the supplier of the
>>> product she wanted,
>>> told them she was in Canada but obtained a US address, gave then the
>>> information including her Canadian phone number and obvious
>>> Canadian email address (sympatico). She picks up the goods
>>> tomorrow.
>>>
>>> Debbie
>>
>> Clever. But how did she paid for the goods? Quite often US merchants
>> wont accept Canadian credit cards. I for once had a problem like
>> this with Expedia.com. They kept sending me back to Expedia.ca
>> although Canadian web site had higher prices for flight to the same
>> destination.

Credit Card

Debbie

--�

Debbie

(Email account is valid but one I do not check. To email use above
name dot neill at sympatico dot ca)

"Espressopithecus (Java Man) >" >
wrote in message
ble.net...
> In article <6eYOi.7362$1y4.3129@pd7urf2no>,
> says...
>>
>> "Debbie" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I have a friend who made a phone call to the UPS state side, got the
>> > correct
>> > address, not a PO Box, and was told she would need to pay $5 when she
>> > came
>> > to pick her package up. She called the supplier of the product she
>> > wanted,
>> > told them she was in Canada but obtained a US address, gave then the
>> > information including her Canadian phone number and obvious Canadian
>> > email
>> > address (sympatico). She picks up the goods tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Debbie
>>
>> Clever. But how did she paid for the goods? Quite often US merchants wont
>> accept Canadian credit cards. I for once had a problem like this with
>> Expedia.com. They kept sending me back to Expedia.ca although Canadian
>> web
>> site had higher prices for flight to the same destination.
>>
> It should be no problem. I've made dozens of purchases from US web
> retailers using a Canadian credit card. If they deliver to Canada, it's
> no problem. For those who don't deliver to Canada, I've never had one
> refuse a Canadian credit card if delivery is to a US address.
>
> But watch out for UPS deliveries to Canada! Shipping UPS ground, you'll
> pay an outrageous "customs brokerage charge" that could be 10 to 20% of
> the value of the purchase! However, that can be avoided by having it
> shipped UPS overnight or second day air. UPS doesn't charge customs
> brokerage on these shipping options, and the shipping charge is LESS
> than the customs brokerage fee they charge on ground shipments.
>
> Java

Thank you for info.

Arek Niski wrote:
> Hi, does anyone know where I can buy Kitchen Aid Profesional 600 mixer
> in the walk-in store in NW US? I live in Vancouver, BC and prices for
> this mixer on this side of the border are almost twice what it cost in
> US (Sears Canada $720, Sears US $360). With dollar being equal this is
> rip-off. Only problem is that the stores in US I have checked (Circuit
> City, Sears) do not have this mixer in the walk-in stores. After online
> purchase they ship it to US addresses only directly from Kitchen Aid's
> warehouse. It seems Whirlpool has some kind of restriction in place
> preventing US stores shipping to the Canadian customers. Of course there
> is EBay but not many sellers ship to Canada. And I do not want to end up
> with refurbish unit sold as a new one.


About three years ago I received one of these as a christmas presant
from my kids. I like to make sourdough bread. After about 5 weeks of
once a week breadmaking it went poof in a cloud of smoke. Called
BB&Beyond and they said "O! it shouldn't do that, bring it back." The
new one did the same thing minus the smoke, just stopped dead. I
returned that one and added a little money to the pot and got a Bosch
Concept 7000. It is still running fine!

"Miki" > wrote in message . ..
> ...After about 5 weeks of once a week breadmaking it went poof
> in a cloud of smoke. it back....The new one did the same thing
> minus the smoke, just stopped dead. I ... got a Bosch Concept 7000.
> It is still running ...

Don't lose hope -- you'll manage to kill it! You clearly have the talent.

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Miki" > wrote in message . ..
>> ...After about 5 weeks of once a week breadmaking it went poof
>> in a cloud of smoke. it back....The new one did the same thing
>> minus the smoke, just stopped dead. I ... got a Bosch Concept 7000.
>> It is still running ...
>
> Don't lose hope -- you'll manage to kill it! You clearly have the talent.

You know how easy it is to recognize the voice of someone familiar to
you, even if they're speaking in another room?

I knew this was from Dicky, long before looking at the address...

Dave

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message et...
> Dick Adams wrote:
> > "Miki" > wrote in message . ..
> >> ...After about 5 weeks of once a week breadmaking it went poof
> >> in a cloud of smoke. it back....The new one did the same thing
> >> minus the smoke, just stopped dead. I ... got a Bosch Concept 7000.
> >> It is still running ...
> >
> > Don't lose hope -- you'll manage to kill it! You clearly have the talent.
>
> You know how easy it is to recognize the voice of someone familiar to
> you, even if they're speaking in another room?
>
> I knew this was from Dicky, long before looking at the address...

Not too difficult, actually. I trimmed the quoted text, used a spell checker,
and straightened the margins. Those should be a dead giveaway!

Dick Adams wrote:
> "Dave Bell" > wrote in message et...
>> Dick Adams wrote:
>>> "Miki" > wrote in message . ..
>>>> It is still running ...
>>> Don't lose hope -- you'll manage to kill it! You clearly have the talent.
>> You know how easy it is to recognize the voice of someone familiar to
>> you, even if they're speaking in another room?
>>
>> I knew this was from Dicky, long before looking at the address...
>
> Not too difficult, actually. I trimmed the quoted text, used a spell checker,
> and straightened the margins. Those should be a dead giveaway!
>
:{) Yeah, that and the tone of the message...

"Dave Bell" > wrote in message . net...
> >> [ ... ]
> >> I knew this was from Dicky, long before looking at the address...
> >
> > Not too difficult, actually. I trimmed the quoted text, used a spell checker,
> > and straightened the margins. Those should be a dead giveaway!
> >
> :{) Yeah, that and the tone of the message...

Well, yes, there was a mild attempt to derail the impending mixer-
bashing ****ing contest.

--
-d.

In
Dicky said:

> ... there was a mild attempt to derail the impending mixer-
> bashing ****ing contest.

Seriously, though, I did not mean to shut down the whole newsgroup.

Folks who need their SUV's to drive around the corner to the supermarket
to pick up their 5-lb sacks of flour are certainly going to need expensive
mixers.

"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

In
Dicky said:

> ... there was a mild attempt to derail the impending mixer-
> bashing ****ing contest.

Seriously, though, I did not mean to shut down the whole newsgroup.

Folks who need their SUV's to drive around the corner to the supermarket
to pick up their 5-lb sacks of flour are certainly going to need expensive
mixers.

Trolling, Dick?
Janet

Janet B. wrote:
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> In
> Dicky said:
>
>> ... there was a mild attempt to derail the impending mixer-
>> bashing ****ing contest.
>
> Seriously, though, I did not mean to shut down the whole newsgroup.
>
> Folks who need their SUV's to drive around the corner to the supermarket
> to pick up their 5-lb sacks of flour are certainly going to need expensive
> mixers.
>
> Trolling, Dick?
> Janet
>
>

That was Dicky, not Dick. Or at least not me.

Dick

"Janet B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dick Adams" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> In
> Dicky said:
>
>> ... there was a mild attempt to derail the impending mixer-
>> bashing ****ing contest.
>
> Seriously, though, I did not mean to shut down the whole newsgroup.
>
> Folks who need their SUV's to drive around the corner to the supermarket
> to pick up their 5-lb sacks of flour are certainly going to need expensive
> mixers.
>
> Trolling, Dick?
> Janet
LOL.
Dee Dee

Looks like I killed it.

Oh, well ...

(How many could kill a news group
with a single click of a mouse?)

--
Dicky

Dick Adams wrote:
> Looks like I killed it.
>
> Oh, well ...
>
> (How many could kill a news group
> with a single click of a mouse?)
>
> --
> Dicky
I don't know, but I recall killing the power to an entire (large)
manufacturing building, by resetting a 5 Amp circuit breaker...

Sam wrote:
> Barry Harmon wrote:
>
>> 6. I continue to believe that the "problem" with KA mixers is the
>> operators, not the machine. Too much flour, too little water, etc.
>>
> Nope, IMO that's not the underlying main reason - but you sure are
> entitled to your opinion.
>
> The main issue with the KA 650 is the wrong tool to knead decent (3000 -
> 4000 g) amounts of bread dough and the manufacturer promoting an image
> of quality and reliability suggesting this may be possible.
>
> It is a planetary mixer where the mixing tool - dough hook, needs to cut
> through the dough and slam it around - requires a lot of power.
>
> The KA 650 is not strong enough to turn the motor at low speed for the
> duration of mixing time of around 10-20 minutes for those amounts of
> dough nor dough amounts anywhere close to the manufacturer suggested
> numbers of 14 cups.
>
> The problems I encountered with the KA was not stripping the gear but
> overheating of the electric motor . The mixer turns very slow under a
> load within the manufacture recommended load amounts, the cooling air
> through the motor is diminished and the motor block gets hot. There is
> an overheat switch which disables the unit until it cools down which is
> a major pain in the rear. One has to interrupt the mixing process and
> wait...
> I found the unit to get so hot to start smoking when kneading even small
> dough amounts, 625 g - as shown on a short video clip.
>
> Due to this lack of performance, the KA 650 mixer left the house and I
> am using a Magic Mill mixer for over 5 years now mixing bread doughs of
> typically 3500 g.
>
> The Bosch and Magic Mill have a different mixing mechanism where the
> bowl turns and the mixing tool - dough hook - is stationary which does
> not require so much power to mix dough. This principle is also used on
> large industrial bread dough mixers (spiral mixers).
>
> A planetary mixer able to mix 3000 - 4000 g bread dough would cost
> significantly more - probably around $ 2000.
>
> Next time I make dough, I will make a video clip to show the amount
> mixed, post it on youtube and I challenge every KA mixer user to show a
> similar result.
>
> Sam
>
>
>
Update on this with the video promised - on Picasa since there is more
context possible:

http://picasaweb.google.com/samartha...7_12_223kgLoaf



Sam

Sam wrote:
> Sam wrote:
>
>> Barry Harmon wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 6. I continue to believe that the "problem" with KA mixers is the
>>> operators, not the machine. Too much flour, too little water, etc.
>>>
>>>
>> Nope, IMO that's not the underlying main reason - but you sure are
>> entitled to your opinion.
>>
>> The main issue with the KA 650 is the wrong tool to knead decent (3000 -
>> 4000 g) amounts of bread dough and the manufacturer promoting an image
>> of quality and reliability suggesting this may be possible.
>>

No, wait, you're BOTH right! If you want to mix 3,000 to 4,000 grams of
dough with a KA, you're in much the same position as someone with a
little 4-banger Japanese pickup truck who needs to move 20 tons of
bricks. It really IS the wrong tool for the job.

On the other hand, most of the stories I've heard about dead KA mixers
can be summarized, "I was making my 4th double batch of whole wheat
bread in a row when, BLAM!, without warning, it died!" When you use
whole grains - wheat or rye, you have to reduce the already meaningless
"flour power" rating by half. And with double batches on top of that.
Not all of the stories fall into that category. There are reasons to
believe that the newer mixers are not as well made as the older ones.

So, with whole grain flours, you are looking at 7 cups of flour. Call
it 840 grams of flour, or around 1,400 grams of dough. And after 2 back
to back batches, you are supposed to let the mixer cool.

If that is OK with your workloads, then it's an OK machine. If not,
then you need a bigger machine. Like the Electrolux.

A lot of people make a big deal about the mixer motor power. My old
KA45SS uses about 300 watts. The 40+ year old 30 quart Hobart used
about 250. And the Hobart could handle 27 pound batches of dough with
no problems. Watts tell you how much power a motor consumes, not how
much it applies to the job at hand. The ancient Hobart, like most
commercial mixers, has a geared transmission so the motor is always
running at an optimum speed. The KA's use a variable speed motor and it
is being asked to produce maximum torque at low speeds to knead dough.
It's not a good idea. Viking, Kenwood and Delonghi have the same
inherent problem. The real issue gets back to design and build
quality. The Bosch and Electrolux mixers apply the force differently.
Anyway, the 750 watt newer motors don't seem to be more reliable than
the older 275 to 300 watt motors. Looking at the power drawn from the
wall doesn't tell you how reliable a device is.

I bought an Electrolux a while back and really like it. I still have my
KA45SS and it's OK too. I was curious as to which made the better
dough. So,. I made two batches of dough at the same time. One in the
KA one in the Electrolux. I put them next to each other and filmed both
making dough at the same time. A mixer throw down, as it were. I
normally mix/knead dough for 5 minutes, let it rest for 5 so the dough
can absorb water, and then knead for another 5 minutes. So far, it's
worked well for every mixer I've used and every dough I've made, except
bagel dough. Works by hand too.

At the end of the 15 minutes, I really couldn't tell the differences
between the doughs. Nor could I tell a difference after baking. I did
another test, same results. One with white flour, one with rye. Good
breads all the way around.

The Electrolux is a workhorse. But within their load limits, both do
very well.

All that said, would I buy another KA today? No, sorry, but no.

Mike

--
Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
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won't shut up."
- Dorothy Gambrel

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.10.1198457179.87773.rec.food.sourdoug ...


> So, with whole grain flours, you are looking at 7 cups of flour. Call it
> 840 grams of flour, or around 1,400 grams of dough. And after 2 back to
> back batches, you are supposed to let the mixer cool.

I used to mix 1200 g of whole wheat and rye flour in one batch using
KA Pro 600. However I was never able to finish the dough before the
mixer shut down due to overheating.

> A lot of people make a big deal about the mixer motor power. My old
> KA45SS uses about 300 watts. The 40+ year old 30 quart Hobart used about
> 250. And the Hobart could handle 27 pound batches of dough with no
> problems. Watts tell you how much power a motor consumes, not how much it
> applies to the job at hand. The ancient Hobart, like most commercial
> mixers, has a geared transmission so the motor is always running at an
> optimum speed. The KA's use a variable speed motor and it is being asked
> to produce maximum torque at low speeds to knead dough. It's not a good
> idea. Viking, Kenwood and Delonghi have the same inherent problem. The
> real issue gets back to design and build quality. The Bosch and
> Electrolux mixers apply the force differently. Anyway, the 750 watt newer
> motors don't seem to be more reliable than the older 275 to 300 watt
> motors. Looking at the power drawn from the wall doesn't tell you how
> reliable a device is.

I second that. It seems that KA wastes lots of wattage in form of
unnecessary
heat generated by the motor and the gearbox. The actual heat sensor in this
mixer
is located on the shaft between the motor and the gearbox. As I mentioned
above
my KA could never finish mixing of 1200g of whole wheat and rye flour due to
overheating. That is until I have removed the top cover and run the mixer
with the
motor and the gearbox housing exposed. Due to increased flow of cooling air
the
sensor does not act as before therefore kneading can be done properly.
However
this can create a situation where overheating of the gearbox is not detected
and can
cause damage to the plastic housing and exposes live wires to touch. Because
of all
these problems I have decided to return KA back to the store and I am
waiting for
Bosch Concept to arrive soon.

> Mike