Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Hans Fugal
 
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Default Article on Pizza

Local paper ran an article on pizza, with interviews from Peter Reinhart
(American Pie). http://166.70.44.66/2004/Jun/0630200...a/Wednesda.asp

An interesting quote: "Reinhart ... said one of the easiest ways to
improve homemade pizza dough is to let it ferment overnight." It
continues, ""When you make the dough the night before or early in the
morning and put it in the fridge to rise slowly, the flavor improves
dramatically," he said, adding that when the dough sits, the flavors
trapped inside the flour, water, salt and yeast have time to emerge. The
process is akin to aging wine."

Now they're not using sourdough start, but it seems like they're
starting down the same trail here. If that's truly the secret to great
pizza dough, then it might at least be possible that sourdough pizza
dough is even better.

I've only had one sourdough pizza, from Pier 49, and it didn't taste
very much like sourdough. There was a little bit of it there, if I was
careful to notice it, but frankly if their pizza was any better than
anyone else's it was because they had gourmet toppings.

What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?
  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
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Default Article on Pizza

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
wrote:

>What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
>pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?


Howdy,

In a word... "yes", but...

In other parts of the world the sort of leavening that is called
"sourdough" in the U.S. has other names. Often, (as in the French
"levain naturel") they are named to emphasize the difference from
commercial yeast leavening.

I mention this only because "sourdough" (that is, naturally leavened
baked goods) need not be sour.

I do naturally leavened pizza dough frequently. People often say that
the crust tastes great, but I don't recall anyone saying that it
tasted like "sourdough."

If you would like my recipe, please just let me know.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
williamwaller
 
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Default Article on Pizza

On 7/1/04 2:22 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
> wrote:
>
>> What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
>> pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?

>
> Howdy,
>
> In a word... "yes", but...
>
> In other parts of the world the sort of leavening that is called
> "sourdough" in the U.S. has other names. Often, (as in the French
> "levain naturel") they are named to emphasize the difference from
> commercial yeast leavening.
>
> I mention this only because "sourdough" (that is, naturally leavened
> baked goods) need not be sour.
>
> I do naturally leavened pizza dough frequently. People often say that
> the crust tastes great, but I don't recall anyone saying that it
> tasted like "sourdough."
>
> If you would like my recipe, please just let me know.
>
> All the best,
>

Kenneth,

As luck would have it, I've got a pizza dough (80% AP and 20% medium milled
barley) maturing in the chiller now for tonight. But I'd love to give your
recipe a go later this week.

Will

By-the-by... Still making the "Poilane" regularly. Spelt finally dropped to
$1.39 pound here. Found it for $.79 lb in Atlanta (of all places!)

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Wcsjohn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
>wrote:
>
>>What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
>>pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?

>
>Howdy,
>
>In a word... "yes", but...
>
>In other parts of the world the sort of leavening that is called
>"sourdough" in the U.S. has other names. Often, (as in the French
>"levain naturel") they are named to emphasize the difference from
>commercial yeast leavening.
>
>I mention this only because "sourdough" (that is, naturally leavened
>baked goods) need not be sour.
>


In most of Europe, "Sourdough" is a selling point but, as you say, sourness,
per se, is not emphasised or indeed regarded as the most important factor.
Depth of flavour, emphasised by a little acidity is the factor most often
claimed, and (please don't take this amiss<g>) the American style of sourdough
is sometimes regarded as TOO sour to the point of overwhelming the other
flavours of the bread. Which may be snobbbery or may be true, I've never tasted
Genuine San Francisco Sourdough (assuming such a thing to exist<g>) so I have
no way of knowing.

John

>
>I do naturally leavened pizza dough frequently. People often say that
>the crust tastes great, but I don't recall anyone saying that it
>tasted like "sourdough."
>
>If you would like my recipe, please just let me know.
>
>All the best,
>
>--
>Kenneth
>



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:16:00 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote:

>On 7/1/04 2:22 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
>>> pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?

>>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> In a word... "yes", but...
>>
>> In other parts of the world the sort of leavening that is called
>> "sourdough" in the U.S. has other names. Often, (as in the French
>> "levain naturel") they are named to emphasize the difference from
>> commercial yeast leavening.
>>
>> I mention this only because "sourdough" (that is, naturally leavened
>> baked goods) need not be sour.
>>
>> I do naturally leavened pizza dough frequently. People often say that
>> the crust tastes great, but I don't recall anyone saying that it
>> tasted like "sourdough."
>>
>> If you would like my recipe, please just let me know.
>>
>> All the best,
>>

>Kenneth,
>
>As luck would have it, I've got a pizza dough (80% AP and 20% medium milled
>barley) maturing in the chiller now for tonight. But I'd love to give your
>recipe a go later this week.
>
>Will
>
>By-the-by... Still making the "Poilane" regularly. Spelt finally dropped to
>$1.39 pound here. Found it for $.79 lb in Atlanta (of all places!)


Hi Will,

Here ya go...

Day 1 8am 100g Poilne culture + 275g water + 100g olive oil + 10g
salt. Mix, then ferment @ 78F for 8 1/2 hours. I then put it in the
fridge over night.

When I am ready to bake a pizza, I shape the dough, let it rest a bit,
stretch it out and go to it.

I also use this dough for savory fougasse... It is delicious stuff.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Pearce
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

"Kenneth" wrote in message
...

<snip>>
> Hi Will,
>
> Here ya go...
>
> Day 1 8am 100g Poilne culture + 275g water + 100g olive oil + 10g
> salt. Mix, then ferment @ 78F for 8 1/2 hours. I then put it in the
> fridge over night.
>
> When I am ready to bake a pizza, I shape the dough, let it rest a bit,
> stretch it out and go to it.
>



Kenneth:

Something doesn't seem right to me with this. Even if the Poilne culture
were 100% flour we are looking at 100g flour, 375g of liquids (water and
oil) and 10g of salt. That's a very wet dough. Is there something I'm
missing?

Thanks,
-Mike



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 21:56:35 -0400, Kenneth
> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:16:00 -0500, williamwaller
> wrote:
>
>>On 7/1/04 2:22 PM, "Kenneth" > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you all think? Is sourdough pizza crust superior to regular
>>>> pizza crust? Do you like it sour or just with a tinge of sourdough flavor?
>>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> In a word... "yes", but...
>>>
>>> In other parts of the world the sort of leavening that is called
>>> "sourdough" in the U.S. has other names. Often, (as in the French
>>> "levain naturel") they are named to emphasize the difference from
>>> commercial yeast leavening.
>>>
>>> I mention this only because "sourdough" (that is, naturally leavened
>>> baked goods) need not be sour.
>>>
>>> I do naturally leavened pizza dough frequently. People often say that
>>> the crust tastes great, but I don't recall anyone saying that it
>>> tasted like "sourdough."
>>>
>>> If you would like my recipe, please just let me know.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>

>>Kenneth,
>>
>>As luck would have it, I've got a pizza dough (80% AP and 20% medium milled
>>barley) maturing in the chiller now for tonight. But I'd love to give your
>>recipe a go later this week.
>>
>>Will
>>
>>By-the-by... Still making the "Poilane" regularly. Spelt finally dropped to
>>$1.39 pound here. Found it for $.79 lb in Atlanta (of all places!)

>
>Hi Will,
>
>Here ya go...
>
>Day 1 8am 100g Poilne culture + 275g water + 100g olive oil + 10g
>salt. Mix, then ferment @ 78F for 8 1/2 hours. I then put it in the
>fridge over night.
>
>When I am ready to bake a pizza, I shape the dough, let it rest a bit,
>stretch it out and go to it.
>
>I also use this dough for savory fougasse... It is delicious stuff.
>
>All the best,
>


Hi again Will,

It's even better if you include 525g AP flour...

'Sorry <g>.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 21:46:12 -0500, "Mike Pearce"
> wrote:

>That's a very wet dough. Is there something I'm
>missing?


No Mike... It was something I was missing... The flour. It should have
included 525g of AP.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
williamwaller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

<snip>

>>> Kenneth,


I'd love to give your recipe a go later this week.


>>> Will
>>>=20

>> Hi Will,
>>=20
>> Here ya go...
>>=20
>> Day 1 8am 100g Poil=E2ne culture + 275g water + 100g olive oil + 10g
>> salt. Mix, then ferment @ 78F for 8 1/2 hours. I then put it in the
>> fridge over night.
>>=20
>> When I am ready to bake a pizza, I shape the dough, let it rest a bit,
>> stretch it out and go to it.
>>=20
>> I also use this dough for savory fougasse... It is delicious stuff.
>>=20
>> All the best,
>>=20

>=20
> Hi again Will,
>=20
> It's even better if you include 525g AP flour...
>=20
> 'Sorry <g>.
>=20
> All the best,


Kenneth,

Until you released those last 525 grams I thought perhaps we had a
breakthrough concept here. I envisioned your name among Wisconsin's
greatest. A no-carb dough would move a lot of cheese.

Will =20




  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
amateur
 
Posts: n/a
Default Article on Pizza

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:10:01 -0600, Hans Fugal >
wrote:

>Local paper ran an article on pizza, with interviews from Peter Reinhart
>(American Pie). http://166.70.44.66/2004/Jun/0630200...a/Wednesda.asp
>
>An interesting quote: "Reinhart ... said one of the easiest ways to
>improve homemade pizza dough is to let it ferment overnight." It
>continues, ""When you make the dough the night before or early in the
>morning and put it in the fridge to rise slowly, the flavor improves
>dramatically," he said, adding that when the dough sits, the flavors
>trapped inside the flour, water, salt and yeast have time to emerge. The
>process is akin to aging wine."
>
>Now they're not using sourdough start, but it seems like they're
>starting down the same trail here. If that's truly the secret to great
>pizza dough, then it might at least be possible that sourdough pizza
>dough is even better.

I make 2 pan breads every 5 days. I now have the habit of
separating around 250-300 grams of my dough, and spreading it out on a
14" teflon pizza tray.
When I put my bread in the oven, I wallop the pizza with a
round flat pan-bottom, to get it as even as I can, and to get excess
gas out. When the bread is ready, the pizza has risen a tiny bit, just
enough to be porous, so I pop it in and let it cook for 15 minutes,
until brown underneath.
I wrap in plastic when cool, and freeze. Makes a great weekend
pizza-shell. And man-hours kept to a minimum.
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