Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
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Default Crust is too hard

My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice, but the crust
is too hard. I don't use any spray or water in a pan. Is
there something I can do to make a more tender crust?
Ernie


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Samartha Deva
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Multiple spraying of water onto loafs during baking makes disgustingly
thin crust.

Falling asleep while baking can make amazingly thick, dark and smelly
crust.

S.

Ernie wrote:
>
> My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice, but the crust
> is too hard. I don't use any spray or water in a pan. Is
> there something I can do to make a more tender crust?
> Ernie


--
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SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Samantha,
When I first started baking San Francisco Sourdough bread I
put a pan of water in the oven like the directions said and
sprayed it for a nice crispy crust. It was so hard that I
quit using any water altogether. It is still so hard and
thick that I can hardly cut it. I bake it for 65 minutes at
400 deg. I looks great and tastes fine although it isn't
quite as sour as I like, but it has a crust like a coconut.
Does the kneading time have any effect on crust hardness and
thickness?
Ernie

"Samartha Deva" >
wrote in message ...
> Multiple spraying of water onto loafs during baking makes

disgustingly
> thin crust.
>
> Falling asleep while baking can make amazingly thick, dark

and smelly
> crust.
>
> S.
>
> Ernie wrote:
> >
> > My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice, but the

crust
> > is too hard. I don't use any spray or water in a pan.

Is
> > there something I can do to make a more tender crust?
> > Ernie

>
> --
> remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
> SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
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Default Crust is too hard

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:42:29 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>I bake it for 65 minutes at
>400 deg.


Howdy,

That is the sort of time and temperature that would be appropriate for
a huge (3-4 Kilo) loaf.

If yours are smaller than that you might want to try a temperature of
about 450F for 35 minutes or so. That is likely to make for a thinner
crust.

Also, if you prefer a tender crust, you can paint the loaf with milk
or butter just before baking...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Samartha Deva
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Well Ernie,

I thought that spraying water _onto_ the loafs during baking would make
good crust and the result was a paper thin hull giving in with a light
finger's touch, which I did not like. Then I started thinking that
spraying the water was the cause for the thin crust, stopped doing it
and the thin crusts disappeared.

I don't know how big your loafs are - size is definitely an issue,
smaller loaf = thicker crust, all else the same. Baking time definitely
has an influence, longer = thicker crust.

Your 65 minutes sound long. My loafs usually bake within 35/40 minutes,
that's the 1500 g rye/wheat mix. When I have white breads, they go
usually faster, depending on size. If I bake longer, the bread gets
thicker and darker crust. I have not experimented with lower temperature
and longer baking times. Some bakeries claim 2+ hour baking times.

I have a $ 6.- meat thermometer and when the middle of the loaf has 180
F, it's done. That happens usually at the times given above.

Kneading time, dough development sure has influence on crust but I think
it's mainly baking time and temperature, maybe steam.

Why do you need to bake 65 minutes and what is your loaf size? It would
be interesting to see when you reach the 180 F (some say 190 F) in the
middle of the loaf so you know when you are done and don't need to
accumulate more crust.

Samartha

Ernie wrote:
>
> Samantha,
> When I first started baking San Francisco Sourdough bread I
> put a pan of water in the oven like the directions said and
> sprayed it for a nice crispy crust. It was so hard that I
> quit using any water altogether. It is still so hard and
> thick that I can hardly cut it. I bake it for 65 minutes at
> 400 deg. I looks great and tastes fine although it isn't
> quite as sour as I like, but it has a crust like a coconut.
> Does the kneading time have any effect on crust hardness and
> thickness?
> Ernie


--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Ernie wrote:
>
> My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice, but the crust
> is too hard. I don't use any spray or water in a pan. Is
> there something I can do to make a more tender crust?
> Ernie


If you want to get soft crust then after you pull it from the oven and while
it is still hot rub it with some butter or margarine. The crust will be like
the crust in commercial white bread.

Personally I like a good firm crust that crunches when I bite into it.

Bert
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Adams
 
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Default Crust is too hard


"Ernie" >wrote in message=20
. ..

> Is there something I can do to make a more tender crust?


Assuming the bread is made and baked properly, you can
bag it in plastic after a short interval of cooling. Keep it in
the bag for a few hours, and the crust will soften.

That is much too easy, and you may prefer to do it in a more
intricate and hopeless way, particularly as there is a minute=20
hazard of mold growth for a loaf stored too moist (or any
amount of moist).



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Dick Adams wrote:

> That is much too easy, and you may prefer to do it in a more
> intricate and hopeless way, particularly as there is a minute
> hazard of mold growth for a loaf stored too moist (or any
> amount of moist).


Minute? Not minute.

David
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Pawnee
 
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Default Crust is too hard

I might suggest that you bake it at about 400=B0 for not more than 35-40 =
minutes. At 65 minutes, you should need a hack saw to cut it! :>)


"Ernie" > wrote in message =
...

> quit using any water altogether. It is still so hard and
> thick that I can hardly cut it. I bake it for 65 minutes at
> 400 deg. I looks great and tastes fine although it isn't


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kenneth
 
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Default Crust is too hard

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:49:00 GMT, "Pawnee" >
wrote:

>I might suggest that you bake it at about 400° for not more than 35-40 minutes. At 65 minutes, you should need a hack saw to cut it! :>)
>
>
>"Ernie" > wrote in message ...
>
>> quit using any water altogether. It is still so hard and
>> thick that I can hardly cut it. I bake it for 65 minutes at
>> 400 deg. I looks great and tastes fine although it isn't


Hi Ernie,

You might want to change your posting settings. Right now, your lines
are so long that we have to scroll way out across the very wide page
as you see above...

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard

Thanks for the good information.
The consensus seems to be that I am baking it too
long. I was using Jan Jaworski's Internet
Directions for Authentic Sourdough Bread. I tried
cooking it for less time once and wound up with a
crust that didn't get dark on top and was raw in
the middle. I will try Samantha's suggestion for
using a meat thermometer. If that doesn't work I
will try Kenneth's suggestion of painting the
crust with milk. Pawnee is correct about needing
a hack saw to cut it. I changed my post settings
from 60 characterd per line to 50, I hope that is
better Kenneth. Bert if you tried my coconut
crust you might change your mind about liking a
good hard crust. It actually cracks and pops when
I take it out of the oven. Dick, I think it would
take a week in a plastic bag before this crust got
soft. David, Other than the caps I don't see any
difference between Minute and minute?
Thanks again everyone.
Ernie


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Ernie wrote:

> I changed my post settings
> from 60 characterd per line to 50,


70 is about right, but newsreaders should be able to wrap long lines
anyway. I never saw that wide-line-screen business until it was copied
out that way.

> David, Other than the caps I don't see any
> difference between Minute and minute?


A very small difference.

B/
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joe Umstead
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Ernie wrote:

> My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice, but the crust
> is too hard. I don't use any spray or water in a pan. Is
> there something I can do to make a more tender crust?
> Ernie


Have you check the tempture of your oven.

Joe (:-)

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
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Default Crust is too hard


"Joe Umstead" > wrote in
message
...
> Ernie wrote:
>
> > My sourdough bread rises fine and bakes nice,

but the crust
> > is too hard. I don't use any spray or water

in a pan. Is
> > there something I can do to make a more tender

crust?
> > Ernie

>
> Have you check the tempture of your oven.
>
> Joe (:-)


Thanks for the idea Joe, but it is correct.
Ernie


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Adams
 
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Default Crust is too hard


"Ernie" > wrote in message=20
. com...

> [ ... ]


> Dick, I think it would take a week in a plastic bag before=20
> this crust got soft.


Not much would happen in a week that would not happen
in a couple of hours. But if you have baked the smithereens
out of your loaf, nothing will happen at all because there is
too little moisture left.

Another possibility is to cover the loaves with something that
keeps the moisture from escaping, while they are cooling.
Also, loaves can be rehydrated to an extent by placing them
under a cover with something damp, like wetted sponges or
dishtowels (beside, not on). Several hours of that will make=20
a difference.

Ernie, you do not want to know this, because it is simple-
minded. It is just that there may be someone simpleminded
out there who may follow this thread.

---
DickA




  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
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Default Crust is too hard

Darva Conger wrote:

> oddly, his post wraps just fine for me....


Your email client is wrapping it. Unfortunately, certain clients
may not wrap the lines in outgoing messages, so readers that don't
compensate for that have trouble. In Netscrape (what I'm using now)
you can tell it to auto-wrap, but it is designed poorly so I end up
formatting manually. Pine is much better with that.

David
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Pawnee
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard

And me . . . .

"Darva Conger" > wrote in message =
nk.net...
> >You might want to change your posting settings. Right now, your lines
> >are so long that we have to scroll way out across the very wide page
> >as you see above...
> >
> >HTH,

>=20
> oddly, his post wraps just fine for me....

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

Well today I baked a great loaf of San Francisco
Sourdough bread thanks to everyone's help. I used
a meat thermometer and set the oven to 450 degrees
like Samantha suggested. I set the timer for 35
minutes and the bread was actually 185 degrees in
35 minutes. The crust is a beautiful dark brown,
and crispy, but not too hard. It still isn't
quite as good as my favorite San Francisco
commercial bakery, but now I can do a lot of
experimenting.
Ernie


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Samartha Deva
 
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Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

Ernie,

good, there is some progress in your direction. What I suggest is that
you get a spray bottle with water and maybe every 10 minutes during
baking, maybe two times, mist the loaf so it's wet on the upper surface
and you may get a very thin crust. You probably need to turn it 180
degrees with some tool (I use something similar to this:
http://store6.yimg.com/I/thelefthand_1763_37401 - works fine with loafs
to 1500 g - 3+ lb.) This is what I did with the result described - of
cause, that's not what I wanted, but that's how things work - trying,
failing, avoiding the potholes next time, of cause there are new one's
coming up right away, makes life interesting... :-)


Good luck,

Samartha



Ernie wrote:
>
> Well today I baked a great loaf of San Francisco
> Sourdough bread thanks to everyone's help. I used
> a meat thermometer and set the oven to 450 degrees
> like Samantha suggested. I set the timer for 35
> minutes and the bread was actually 185 degrees in
> 35 minutes. The crust is a beautiful dark brown,
> and crispy, but not too hard. It still isn't
> quite as good as my favorite San Francisco
> commercial bakery, but now I can do a lot of
> experimenting.
> Ernie


--
remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/
  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

Thank you Samantha,
I liked the crust I got on the last loaf I baked, it was
thick, crunchy and chewy. I was afraid to use water because I
thought it would make another coconut crust. Glad you told me
that it makes a thinner crust, I will try it. I also have to
work on larger holes and a more sour flavor. I think I will try
some rye flour in the next loaf to see if that will give me a
more sour flavor and make the mixture a little wetter for larger
holes. Now that I am close there are lots of things I can
experiment with. The only thing I need now is someone to help
eat it.
Thanks
Ernie

"Samartha Deva" > wrote in
message ...
> Ernie,
>
> good, there is some progress in your direction. What I suggest

is that
> you get a spray bottle with water and maybe every 10 minutes

during
> baking, maybe two times, mist the loaf so it's wet on the upper

surface
> and you may get a very thin crust. You probably need to turn it

180
> degrees with some tool (I use something similar to this:
> http://store6.yimg.com/I/thelefthand_1763_37401 - works fine

with loafs
> to 1500 g - 3+ lb.) This is what I did with the result

described - of
> cause, that's not what I wanted, but that's how things work -

trying,
> failing, avoiding the potholes next time, of cause there are

new one's
> coming up right away, makes life interesting... :-)
>
>
> Good luck,
>
> Samartha
>
>
>
> Ernie wrote:
> >
> > Well today I baked a great loaf of San Francisco
> > Sourdough bread thanks to everyone's help. I used
> > a meat thermometer and set the oven to 450 degrees
> > like Samantha suggested. I set the timer for 35
> > minutes and the bread was actually 185 degrees in
> > 35 minutes. The crust is a beautiful dark brown,
> > and crispy, but not too hard. It still isn't
> > quite as good as my favorite San Francisco
> > commercial bakery, but now I can do a lot of
> > experimenting.
> > Ernie

>
> --
> remove -nospam from my email address, if there is one
> SD page is the http://samartha.net/SD/





  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
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Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 04:12:00 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>like Samantha suggested.


LOL!

He/She/It is the wicked witch of sourdough.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
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Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:46:40 -0700, Samartha Deva
> wrote:

>Ernie,


>good, there is some progress in your direction.


And "Samantha" didn't even spot the reference.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:56:23 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>Thank you Samantha,


This is too much. If you keep this up I am going to break a rib
laughing so hard.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
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Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

And if you keep this up you are going in my kill file!
Ernie

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 14:56:23 GMT, "Ernie"
> > wrote:
>
> >Thank you Samantha,

>
> This is too much. If you keep this up I am going to break a rib
> laughing so hard.



  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default My apology Samartha

I am sorry I Got your name wrong Samartha. I am 73 years old and
don't see very good. Thanks again for the help.
Ernie




  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:58:08 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>> >Thank you Samantha,


>> This is too much. If you keep this up I am going to break a rib
>> laughing so hard.


>And if you keep this up you are going in my kill file!


Go ahead, I don't care one bit. Be an asshole if you want - you are in
good company on this forum.

People around here have no sense of humor, except CrockPot Adams - and
that's only because he's stoned when he posts.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Complete, fully thought through, professional, well-executed
violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead.
Not 'on trial,' not 'reeducated,' not 'nurtured back into the
bosom of love.' Dead. D-E-A-D. Well, you get the idea.
-- USMC General Hawley
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default My apology Samartha

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:01:32 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>I am sorry I Got your name wrong Samartha. I am 73 years old and
>don't see very good. Thanks again for the help.
>Ernie


Don't worry, dude. Everyone makes the same mistake.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Complete, fully thought through, professional, well-executed
violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead.
Not 'on trial,' not 'reeducated,' not 'nurtured back into the
bosom of love.' Dead. D-E-A-D. Well, you get the idea.
-- USMC General Hawley
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

Good bye Bob Plunk!
Ernie

"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:58:08 GMT, "Ernie"
> > wrote:
>
> >> >Thank you Samantha,

>
> >> This is too much. If you keep this up I am going to break a

rib
> >> laughing so hard.

>
> >And if you keep this up you are going in my kill file!

>
> Go ahead, I don't care one bit. Be an asshole if you want - you

are in
> good company on this forum.
>
> People around here have no sense of humor, except CrockPot

Adams - and
> that's only because he's stoned when he posts.
>
>
> --
>
> Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
> http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/
>
> Complete, fully thought through, professional, well-executed
> violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
> afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead.
> Not 'on trial,' not 'reeducated,' not 'nurtured back into the
> bosom of love.' Dead. D-E-A-D. Well, you get the idea.
> -- USMC General Hawley



  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default My apology Samartha


"Bob" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:01:32 GMT, "Ernie"
> > wrote:
>
> >I am sorry I Got your name wrong Samartha. I am 73 years old

and
> >don't see very good. Thanks again for the help.
> >Ernie

>
> Don't worry, dude. Everyone makes the same mistake.


LOL even my spell checker wants to call you Samantha.
Ernie


  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)


"Ernie" >=20
wrote in message ...

> Good bye Bob Plunk!


That's plonk. Can't you get anything right?

Anyway, I hope it works for you. "Bob" is revived, even
for the plonkers (and plunkers), every time some one=20
replies to one of his abundant posts.

---
DickA





  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ernie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

I'll use Plonk! for you.
Ernie


"Dick Adams" > wrote in message
...

"Ernie" >
wrote in message
...

> Good bye Bob Plunk!


That's plonk. Can't you get anything right?

Anyway, I hope it works for you. "Bob" is revived, even
for the plonkers (and plunkers), every time some one
replies to one of his abundant posts.

---
DickA




  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Crust is too hard (Thanks Everyone)

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 21:42:57 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>I'll use Plonk! for you.


You keep this up and you just as well not be on the forum.


--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Complete, fully thought through, professional, well-executed
violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead.
Not 'on trial,' not 'reeducated,' not 'nurtured back into the
bosom of love.' Dead. D-E-A-D. Well, you get the idea.
-- USMC General Hawley
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob
 
Posts: n/a
Default My apology Samartha

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 20:32:20 GMT, "Ernie"
> wrote:

>"Bob" > wrote in message
...


>> >I am sorry I Got your name wrong Samartha. I am 73 years old
>> >and don't see very good. Thanks again for the help.


>> Don't worry, dude. Everyone makes the same mistake.


>LOL even my spell checker wants to call you Samantha.


Your spell checker needs better glasses too - I am not Samartha.

<jeez>

--

Map Of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy:
http://www.freewebs.com/vrwc/

Complete, fully thought through, professional, well-executed
violence never leads to more violence because, you see,
afterwards, the other guys are all dead. That's right, dead.
Not 'on trial,' not 'reeducated,' not 'nurtured back into the
bosom of love.' Dead. D-E-A-D. Well, you get the idea.
-- USMC General Hawley
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