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Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures. |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
> Did you try the "design system" link? It doesn't give much detail but > there is a bit on the principles involved.http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/designsystem.html http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/c..._sequence.html also gives me a bit better idea do you mind me asking where you are? The company seems largely russian - and although clearly a pretty radical design relates to the the massive retained heat of the traditional russian stove I would guess (the type that you sleep on) since you say you only fire twice a day (whereas I run my wood burning stove at home continously during winter) I guess it must be ultra eifficent > >Its placing directly above fire is curious, partly because > > examples I have seen in old farmhouses normally have it to side and > > also it implies even if this oven does need fire inside oven, it must > > be very subject to how hot the fire underneath is running (so how do > > you get really low heat in oven when you want that?) > > According to the instructions, we don't bake bread until the fire has gone > out. There is supposed to be enough retained heat in the oven for baking > then (which I find easy to believe considering how well it heats the > house.) It is supposed to be too hot for bread while the fire is still > going. > have to say I would find this rather awkward to work with I think. Since many sourdough recipes (or rather methods) require one to start making up dough between one day and three days in advance and the final point at which bread is put in oven being fairly critical in its process of rising (the time slot when a loaf is neither under-proofed or over-proofed from its final make up is probably about half an hour maximum) - most of us either switch our modern oven or light our oven fire at the dictates of the dough - which you won't be a liberty to do (assuming your priority is heating your house) the answers for you I think will be various. Infa red thermometer is a nice gadget, but as I wrote before simply reading exterior and interior heat of your oven in this way isn't always that helpful (exterior obviously tends to reflect the ambient heat rather than just the internal retained heat). In your case the interior surface heat may be more useful than typically since effectively it will only be retained heat. If you have to choose (ie you can't get the model I mentioned that does both probe and infa red) then I might go for the probe type themometer, these can be very cheap as they are produced for car mechanics also. Either way I would strongly suggest you initally do graphs of the falling temperature of your oven to work out typical times for when it will be at whatever temperature (and for how long) The second tactic (aside from rather long term pre-planning) in order to get your dough to dance to the rythm of your daily firings is to make or find already existing in your house what professional bakers call 'proofing cabinet' and 'retarder'. A proofer will speed up dough development, a retarder will do the opposite. Classic domestic ready made proofer would be dough in a tupperware in an 'airing cabinet' if you have such a thing (sadly few do nowadays - there's nothing like putting on fresh clothes from an air cabinet on a cold morning) - if you don't have in your case I am sure you can make a cabinet at some appropriate distance from your fire ensemble - but the result must be an even all round heat and dough sealed in soemthing so as not to dry out. A fridge can do the job of retarding if a bit harshly yours andy forbes |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
"atty" > wrote in message ups.com... >> >> The time it takes to achieve certain colours is a very good guide > > do you mean colour of flour, how longs it takes to darken? > By the way, Kiko suggests the flour method too, ISTR you use his book ... Mary |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:58:13 -0500, Jayne Kulikauskas
> wrote: [---] >You get low heat by waiting for it. The fire is lit only twice a day and >burns itself out in a couple of hours. If it's your main house heating, isn't it a bit constraining to have to actually light the thing up twice a day - or do you in fact just add more wood to the embers when you need to fire it again? |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On 26 Feb 2007 08:21:39 -0800, "atty" > wrote:
>Since many sourdough recipes (or rather methods) require one to start >making up dough between one day and three days in advance Agreed. >and the >final point at which bread is put in oven being fairly critical in its >process of rising (the time slot when a loaf is neither under-proofed >or over-proofed from its final make up is probably about half an hour >maximum) That, on the other hand, I find a bit extreme. Could you detail that "half hour window" a bit more? I've never found sourdough to be that fussy. |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Feb 26, 6:55 pm, Andrew Price > wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2007 08:21:39 -0800, "atty" > wrote: > > >Since many sourdough recipes (or rather methods) require one to start > >making up dough between one day and three days in advance > > Agreed. > > >and the > >final point at which bread is put in oven being fairly critical in its > >process of rising (the time slot when a loaf is neither under-proofed > >or over-proofed from its final make up is probably about half an hour > >maximum) > > That, on the other hand, I find a bit extreme. Could you detail that > "half hour window" a bit more? I've never found sourdough to be that > fussy. I wasn't meaning that the initial mix time determines the end time, however much later that might be, to within a half hour time slot, since the main proof (including retarding if one goes in for that) is surely more flexible. (Personally I don't bother with knock down proof after main proof since I think that is a stage necessitated by rough handling and extra dough added or subtracted to make exact dough weight by professional bakers). What I was referring to is the moment when the final proof dough (made up into loaves) is risen to its near but not quite maximum and is therefore ready to go in the oven. If you get it under you won't get the maximum size loaf you could, if you get over you won't get much oven spring. Usual test I have read of and more or less use is that a dimple poked in the dough with finger should take no more than 15 seconds to substantially disapear. Left a lot too long your loaf will probably deflate as you slash it, left much too long (particualarly if it is anyway a wet dough or largely rye dough) you'll just get a splayed shapeless thing like a cow pat. In my case at this time of year, since I don't heat my home much, and don't use any proofing box or cabinet, final proof is between 2 and 2 and quarter hours and the antiquated gas oven for winter baking takes one and half hours to get up to baking temperature ... In a warmer house I would suppose the critical slot for loading oven was even tighter. However with a lot stiffer doughs than mine (currently 74% hydration for white) mayeb things aren't so critical. I think I would find it harder but not impossible to live with an oven whose baking time was not determined by myself as the baker, as Jayne is I think suggesting will be the case for her but, its kind of so novel a suggestion of a fire/oven setup compared to the traditional, who knows (yet)? If the rate at which her oven's temperature falls is very slow maybe there is quite a wide time window within which too bake. It also occurs to me that maybe all my stuff about IR/probe thermometers my be unecessary for her, since if her oven's inside temperature is purely retained heat maybe a bog standard oven themometer would be all she needs. yours andy forbes |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On 26 Feb 2007 08:21:39 -0800, atty wrote:
>> Did you try the "design system" link? It doesn't give much detail but >> there is a bit on the principles involved.http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/designsystem.html > > http://www.stovemaster.com/html_en/c..._sequence.html also > gives me a bit better idea > > do you mind me asking where you are? The company seems largely russian > - and although clearly a pretty radical design relates to the the > massive retained heat of the traditional russian stove I would guess > (the type that you sleep on) Alex, who runs the company, is a Russian immigrant to Canada. He is our neighbour here in Ontario, an hour or so north of Toronto. He clearly draws on traditional Russian design. Although ours is not for sleeping on, it does have a heated bench to sit on. I'm wondering if that can be adapted for use as a proofer. (If you are interested in more information on where I live see: www.wholevillage.org ) > since you say you only fire twice a day (whereas I run my wood burning > stove at home continously during winter) I guess it must be ultra > eifficent It is. It burns very short and hot which reduces particulate and then continues to heat because of its large thermal mass. [...] >> According to the instructions, we don't bake bread until the fire has gone >> out. There is supposed to be enough retained heat in the oven for baking >> then (which I find easy to believe considering how well it heats the >> house.) It is supposed to be too hot for bread while the fire is still >> going. >> > > have to say I would find this rather awkward to work with I think. > Since many sourdough recipes (or rather methods) require one to start > making up dough between one day and three days in advance and the > final point at which bread is put in oven being fairly critical in its > process of rising (the time slot when a loaf is neither under-proofed > or over-proofed from its final make up is probably about half an hour > maximum) - most of us either switch our modern oven or light our oven > fire at the dictates of the dough - which you won't be a liberty to do > (assuming your priority is heating your house) Supposedly the times that the oven reaches certain temperatures is consistent and predictable. For example, it might always be bread temperature 5 hours after firing. So, if the dough's timing is predictable too, it should be possible to coordinate them to occur at the same time. > the answers for you I think will be various. Infa red thermometer is a > nice gadget, but as I wrote before simply reading exterior and > interior heat of your oven in this way isn't always that helpful > (exterior obviously tends to reflect the ambient heat rather than just > the internal retained heat). In your case the interior surface heat > may be more useful than typically since effectively it will only be > retained heat. If you have to choose (ie you can't get the model I > mentioned that does both probe and infa red) then I might go for the > probe type themometer, these can be very cheap as they are produced > for car mechanics also. Either way I would strongly suggest you > initally do graphs of the falling temperature of your oven to work out > typical times for when it will be at whatever temperature (and for how > long) Yes, we certainly intend to figure out and keep written record of our temperature times. > The second tactic (aside from rather long term pre-planning) in order > to get your dough to dance to the rythm of your daily firings is to > make or find already existing in your house what professional bakers > call 'proofing cabinet' and 'retarder'. A proofer will speed up dough > development, a retarder will do the opposite. Classic domestic ready > made proofer would be dough in a tupperware in an 'airing cabinet' if > you have such a thing (sadly few do nowadays - there's nothing like > putting on fresh clothes from an air cabinet on a cold morning) - if > you don't have in your case I am sure you can make a cabinet at some > appropriate distance from your fire ensemble - but the result must be > an even all round heat and dough sealed in soemthing so as not to dry > out. A fridge can do the job of retarding if a bit harshly I read the recent post about somebody's homemade proofer. It sounded fairly easy to make, although it would be nicer to figure out a way to incorporate the heater's warming bench. -- Jayne |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:51:39 +0100, Andrew Price wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:58:13 -0500, Jayne Kulikauskas > > wrote: > > [---] > >>You get low heat by waiting for it. The fire is lit only twice a day and >>burns itself out in a couple of hours. > > If it's your main house heating, isn't it a bit constraining to have > to actually light the thing up twice a day - or do you in fact just > add more wood to the embers when you need to fire it again? It is easier to light it twice a day than to constantly feed a conventional fire. -- Jayne |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Feb 26, 5:07 pm, Jayne Kulikauskas >
wrote: > I read the recent post about somebody's homemade proofer. It sounded > fairly easy to make, although it would be nicer to figure out a way to > incorporate the heater's warming bench. Seems to me that would be simple... just invert a box or bus tub over the dough placed on the warming bench... I'd still use clear or translucent plastic for the ease of viewing but I suspect the proofing times would be reliable and easy to coordinate with your oven. I would experiment with different bread shapes and oven temperature. You might find that you can bake a load of batards at a higher temperature than boules. If so... you can sequence your loads by shape. I think you are going to have a lot of fun with this... |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
> Supposedly the times that the oven reaches certain temperatures is > consistent and predictable. For example, it might always be bread > temperature 5 hours after firing. So, if the dough's timing is predictable > too, it should be possible to coordinate them to occur at the same time. > if you bake at regular intervals (preferrably often), keep your sourdough culture fresh and well fed, don't tend towards experimenting with or tweaking your recipe then yes, your total proofing time should be pretty predicatble. However if you like fairly cold proofing (and retarding) and like to tweak/experiment (like me I guess) you may find main proof time (basically dough should double in size) is up to one or two hours out from anticipated. I guess I get stricter and less experimental with myself (and the dough) when I am going to use my wood-fired oven than when I turn a knob. laters andy f |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
atty wrote:
> (Personally I don't bother with knock down proof > after main proof since I think that is a stage necessitated by rough > handling and extra dough added or subtracted to make exact dough > weight by professional bakers). It all depends on the results you are trying to achieve, the style of bread you are making, and the conditions of your bakery. In short, it's a tool, like any other. "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in "San Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is just a riser and can be used to make any bread. So, if you want a rustic bread with big holes, a single rise will help you. Each time you knock down the dough and reform it, the crumb tends to become more uniform. So, if you are trying for a pullman loaf, you might be well advised to knock it down an additional time or two. Also, at higher altitudes, it can help to get bread under control to let it have an extra rise or two. Most professional bakers handle their dough gently. At least the artisan bakers. Mike -- Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker ICQ 16241692 networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230 wordsmith A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day: Finance majors do it with interest. |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
> "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in "San > Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is just a > riser and can be used to make any bread. > hmmm I get your points generally Mike, though I think the need for professional bakers (in the UK technically bread can only be sold as 800grm or 400grm units unless by weight) to scale their loaves does impose on them an extra amount of dough chopping that the amateur doesn't need to be bothered with. however I think sourdough bread styles do fall within a group that is distinct from commercial yeast bread styles and that is in the emphasis on developing both flavour and crust which I think implies relatively slow proofing and quality baking. I suppose in theory if you had a fresh and active enough sourdough culture, innoculated dough at a high percentage and proofed at high temperature you could get near commercial yeast proofing times and with a similar bread flavour result, but surely that would be defeating the point and not any sourdough bread style. Unfortunately I have tasted quite a few such 'soudoughs' from bakers in recent times, though some of them were probably, especially in France, purely out of a packet/sack. The generality of French bakers shoot themselves in the foot every time the public finds a bread more interesting than the quotidien by producing some pale industrial imitation, or rather the big millers do, which kills the goose with the golden egg. Before it was 'pain de campagne', now the same thing is happening to 'pain au levain' and the French millers are literally exporting it to UK supermarkets as well (Sainsbury's La Brea Bakery label bread!) making it harder for real artisan bakers to distinguish their products other than by word of mouth. question, what kind of surface/banetton or whatever can one do a single proof rising in so the dough won't stick to the surface of whatever. Its quite touch and go with my flour lined, linen lined banetton for two hours as it is? would like to know since rustic and wet style is my preference yours andy f |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
atty wrote:
>> "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in >> "San Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is >> just a riser and can be used to make any bread. > however I think sourdough bread styles do fall within a group that is > distinct from commercial yeast bread styles... Mike is right on that one. Sourdough is a process, not a "style." Sourdough is the process of using *soured* (old) dough to rise a new batch of dough. B/ |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
On Feb 27, 1:50 am, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> atty wrote: > >> "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in > >> "San Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is > >> just a riser and can be used to make any bread. > > however I think sourdough bread styles do fall within a group that is > > distinct from commercial yeast bread styles... > > Mike is right on that one. Sourdough is a process, not a "style." > Sourdough is the process of using *soured* (old) dough to rise a new > batch of dough. hey sourdough from a sourdough culture is not the same as old or 'rotten' dough (previous day's) from commercial yeast added to fresh commercial yeast dough which is what most modern bakers understand by an 'old dough' method. Surely there's been enough scientific stuff quoted before on this group to show that sourdough cultures are typically not the same yeast as commercial 'bakers' yeast and/or are a mixture of yeasts depending on the culture + lacto bacilli. I think the modern 'old dough' method basically came into being to mitigate the affects on quality of the adoption of 'bakers yeast' commercially - and the results can often be good but its still not exactly equivalent laters atty > B/ |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
atty wrote:
> On Feb 27, 1:50 am, Brian Mailman > wrote: >> atty wrote: >> >> "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in >> >> "San Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is >> >> just a riser and can be used to make any bread. >> > however I think sourdough bread styles do fall within a group that is >> > distinct from commercial yeast bread styles... >> >> Mike is right on that one. Sourdough is a process, not a "style." >> Sourdough is the process of using *soured* (old) dough to rise a new >> batch of dough. > > hey > sourdough from a sourdough culture is not the same as old or 'rotten' > dough (previous day's) from commercial yeast added to fresh commercial > yeast dough which is what most modern bakers understand by an 'old > dough' method. I didn't say sourdough culture related in any way to a commercial yeast dough. B/ |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
> I didn't say sourdough culture related in any way to a commercial yeast > dough. Sorry, its just when you wrote "*soured* (old) dough " I saw a confusion with what I take usually to mean a method using old or 'rotten' dough from commercial yeast saved over from previous day but when Mike wrote "Unqualified, sourdough is just a riser and can be used to make any bread." I wrote back, yes maybe you can make more or less any style of bread, but partly as a question of approach AND also because you have the right tool - one's sourdough culture as opposed to commercial cake bakers yeast - one tends to make a particular group of styles of bread yours atty > B/ |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
> but when Mike wrote "Unqualified, sourdough is just a riser and can be > used to make any bread." I wrote back, yes maybe you can make more or > less any style of bread, but partly as a question of approach AND > also because you have the right tool - one's sourdough culture as > opposed to commercial cake bakers yeast - one tends to make a > particular group of styles of bread so really we should say 'sourdough breads' (plural) to cover the range of styles classically made with sourdough culture and methods. But fact is that I have not yet seen at a commercial bakers anything more than 'Sourdough bread' and sometimes also 'San Fransisco Sourdough bread' however if you ask sometimes it will turn out all their breads our sourdough risen, so so is really "Sourdough 40% rye", "Sourdough wholemeal" etc I have also seen "Sourdough (contains no yeast)" which is particularly confusing for public - though I do indeed have a friend who can eat my bread and other sourdoughs fine but is allergic to commercial yeast risen bread (which must be a defining proof that at least my sourdough culture doesn't contain commercial yeast strain). yours atty > yours > atty > > > B/ |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Feb 26, 6:08 pm, Jayne Kulikauskas >
wrote: > On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:51:39 +0100, Andrew Price wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 09:58:13 -0500, Jayne Kulikauskas > > > wrote: > > > [---] > > >>You get low heat by waiting for it. The fire is lit only twice a day and > >>burns itself out in a couple of hours. > > > If it's your main house heating, isn't it a bit constraining to have > > to actually light the thing up twice a day - or do you in fact just > > add more wood to the embers when you need to fire it again? > > It is easier to light it twice a day than to constantly feed a conventional > fire. The thing does have some ENORMOUS thermal mass. By the time the fire burns itself out, some of the stones are still cool to the touch. They're hot the next morning, though, and they're STILL warm by the following evening, even if no fire has been lit in the morning. By the way, Alex (the stove mason) has been over almost every evening this last week, taking temperature and flue gas composition measurements every 10 minutes (or was it 5 minutes?) and entering them into a spreadsheet. |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
atty wrote:
>> "Sourdough" is not a style of bread, unless you qualify it, as in "San >> Francisco Sourdough French Bread." Unqualified, sourdough is just a >> riser and can be used to make any bread. >> > I get your points generally Mike, though I think the need for > professional bakers (in the UK technically bread can only be sold as > 800grm or 400grm units unless by weight) to scale their loaves does > impose on them an extra amount of dough chopping that the amateur > doesn't need to be bothered with. > The chopping isn't as harmful as you might think, but most commercial bakeries of any size use a stress free divider that does a very good job of getting the dough weights correct on the first try. > however I think sourdough bread styles do fall within a group that is > distinct from commercial yeast bread styles and that is in the > emphasis on developing both flavour and crust which I think implies > relatively slow proofing and quality baking. I suppose in theory if > you had a fresh and active enough sourdough culture, innoculated dough > at a high percentage and proofed at high temperature you could get > near commercial yeast proofing times and with a similar bread flavour > result, but surely that would be defeating the point and not any > sourdough bread style. Well, let's take a different spin on it. Before the mid to late 1800's, sourdough was the most used riser. Ale lees were used to some extent in England, but not in many other countries (at least, not as far as I understand things). And barm is basically just another way of handling sourdough. Thus, almost any bread that can be traced back to before that time was, at one time, a sourdough bread. Light white breads, sweet breads (not sweetbreads, they are something different), rolls, ryes, whole wheat, Challah, sandwich bread, French bread, baguettes, Italian breads and on and on and on... the breads were all sourdough breads. If you make them with sourdough today, you are returning these breads to traditional ways they were once made. > > question, what kind of surface/banetton or whatever can one do a > single proof rising in so the dough won't stick to the surface of > whatever. Its quite touch and go with my flour lined, linen lined > banetton for two hours as it is? would like to know since rustic and > wet style is my preference > While I know that this can be done, it isn't something that works for the styles of breads I make. Of course, I also don't use bannetons or brotformen for my commercial breads. I just form the loaves after the first rise, put them on bakers parchment, lightly spray them with olive oil, and cover them loosely with cling wrap. But you might be able to get some hints at http://www.artisanbakers.com Mike PS - I hope the message subject wasn't off-putting. It was intended as a joke, as many bakers refer to punching down the dough after the first rise as "knocking" the dough. Mike -- Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com part time baker ICQ 16241692 networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230 wordsmith Once seen on road signs all over the United States: If wifie shuns Your fond embrace Don't shoot the iceman Feel your face Burma-Shave |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
On Feb 27, 4:01 pm, Mike Avery > wrote:
> atty wrote: > Light white breads, sweet breads (not sweetbreads, they are something > different), rolls, ryes, whole wheat, Challah, sandwich bread, French > bread, baguettes, Italian breads and on and on and on... the breads were > all sourdough breads. If you make them with sourdough today, you are > returning these breads to traditional ways they were once made. > I think certain bread styles, as they are currently recognised, are probabaly easier to get right with commercial yeast - indeed the accepted 'best of kind' style in some cases may have evolved since the introduction of commercial yeast to take advantage of its qualities (lots of bubbles fast and predictably). Some 'styles', for instance white sandwich (as on the supermarket shelf in plastic bag) I can't really imagine making with a sourdough, and of coursefor that much not yeasted at all but Chorley Wood process. We might hate that style but small kids still go for it in preference to anything else in my experience (is it just cause its sweet without hardly any crust?). I was once taken to a 'trendy' restuarant in hip part of Barcelona which served only what spanish call 'english bread' (untoasted) with a selection of hot wet/sauce 'world ingredients' in between, for instance curry between sandwich loaf slices, hawain style with pineapple sandwich etc etc served on plate with knife and fork - one of the most disgusting things I have ever been asked to eat and which thankfully I haven't encountered anywhere since. > > question, what kind of surface/banetton or whatever can one do a > > single proof rising in so the dough won't stick to the surface of > > whatever. Its quite touch and go with my flour lined, linen lined > > banetton for two hours as it is? would like to know since rustic and > > wet style is my preference > > While I know that this can be done, it isn't something that works for > the styles of breads I make. Of course, I also don't use bannetons or > brotformen for my commercial breads. I just form the loaves after the > first rise, put them on bakers parchment, lightly spray them with olive > oil, and cover them loosely with cling wrap. hmm my typical dough probably too wet to do a single proof free standing, but oiled container might work (in fact I did try this before for final proof with reasonable success). I did also find out by accident on recent spanish travels with shop brought 'banneton' as bread basket novelty type things (really being used as bannetons) that if the bottom of the linen liner is not sowed down if there is any sticking during turn out, linen comes with the dough rather than dough sticking to bottom of basket, dough is thus easier to gently detach if stuck any where, without so much stretching and mishaping resulting. yours atty |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
We might hate that style but
> small kids still go for it in preference to anything else in my > experience (is it just cause its sweet without hardly any crust?). > I forgot, its also the best bread by far for making pellets out to flick (and bait fish hooks) |
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Don't knock it if you haven't tried it....
On 27 Feb 2007 09:02:09 -0800, "atty" >
wrote: >Some 'styles', for instance >white sandwich (as on the supermarket shelf in plastic bag) I can't >really imagine making with a sourdough Howdy, PMJI, but... I have always taken that sort of bread to be the mass produced imitation of the French "Pain de Mie" and that works wonderfully well naturally leavened. By the way, "baguettes" as we now know them were first made in Paris in the 1930s and were always made with commercial yeast. All the best, -- Kenneth If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS." |
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
On Feb 13, 12:29 pm, "Mary Fisher" > wrote:
> "Jayne Kulikauskas" > wrote in message > > ... > > > We are currently in the process of having a masonry heater built. We are > > including the bread oven option. I have decided that I want to learn how > > to make sourdough bread in this oven. I don't have much baking experience > > though I have recently made a few batches of bread with baker's yeast in > > an > > electric (convection) oven. They were edible. > > > I notice the FAQ had an article on Dan Wing's _The Bread Builders_ that > > seems like a book I should be getting because it looks like it deals > > specifically with sourdough baked in masonry ovens. > > It does. We built our stone oven in the garden using the very helpful > information in the book. > > > However, the review > > says that it does not include recipes. > > Don't believe reviewers. My favourite recipe is an adaption of one in there. > My sourdough starter was developed according to the instructions in there. I > wouldn't be without that book. > > > I suspect this means that I need to > > supplement it with at least one other resource. I think that I need a > > book/web site that will be compatable enough with Dan Wing's advice so as > > not to confuse me, suitable for a novice and supportive of my goal to bake > > in my masonry oven. What do you suggest? Thanks. > > I was a novice to masonry ovens - working ones, that is. I had baked > 'normal' bread for more than forty years. I'd flirted with sourdough several > times over those years but none of the starters from any recipe book was as > good or long-lived as the one in that book so I regarded myself as a novice. > > I suggest that you buy the book and read it. And then read it again. And > again. And try what's suggested in there. You should have a better > understanding of the processes of building the oven and making the starter > and making the bread. It's an inspiration. > > There are those (among them me!) who say that just because something's in > print doesn't make it so. I agree. But there are exceptions. > > By the same token just because something's on the net doesn't make it so. > > Get the book, read it more than once because you might not take everything > in at the first go. > > Then think. > > Then wonder. > > Then take the plunge. And enjoy! > > Mary Sorry, I've been lurking here, and you inspired me! I just received my copy of The Bread Builders yesterday, and am looking forward to reading it this weekend. I've got big plans for this spring/summer! |
Posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Sourdough in a masonry oven
"Merryb" > wrote in message ups.com... .... >> >> Get the book, read it more than once because you might not take >> everything >> in at the first go. >> >> Then think. >> >> Then wonder. >> >> Then take the plunge. And enjoy! >> >> Mary > > Sorry, I've been lurking here, and you inspired me! I just received my > copy of The Bread Builders yesterday, and am looking forward to > reading it this weekend. I've got big plans for this spring/summer! Hurrah! I must say that I have no connection with the book or its writers or publishers, I'd never heard of it until - well, I can't remember how it came to my notice. All I know is that when I did get it I read and re-read it. A friend had sent me Kiko's book and I loved that but it didn't seem practical to have a clay oven in Yorkshire. I know better now but that was then. I nagged Spouse for two years before he got round to building my oven - but in the meantime I was picking up stray bricks from anywhere and scrounged stone from a son who was demolishing a structure in his 'new' house. I had a lot of good and bad information from newsgroups, including quite a lot of sneering and reasons why it wouldn't work and how it would explode and blow the street to Kingdom Come :-) I'm sure we made mistakes and might do things differently if we did it again but we shan't do it again and I'm very pleased with what we did. It was fun in the doing and in the using, friends love it, we've had - well - fun! And it makes better bread than I can make in my domestic oven even after fifty years of bread-making If you'd like to see pictures of the building of ours just mail me. Mary > > > > |
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