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Old 21-04-2006, 06:25 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:


Why not?


I'd already told you: bringing in outside food defeats the point of
that particular restaurant; plate-sharing is often part and parcel of
communal dining in any restaurant.

It's lost revenue, just the same.
Revenue is revenue is revenue.


There is NO COST to plate-sharing.

So...your date didn't order a main course why?


Like I said, she seemed to have been on a diet.

After all, the purpose is to eat.


She had soup and salad -- and some of the paella.

Why is it morally
superior to share a main course than to bring in your
own birthday cake or a special bottle of wine?


I never said it was. And unless one's own cake or wine invovles the
restaurant preparing it, refrigerating it, serving it -- etc. -- I
don't see why there should be a charge for it, as long as it's
incidental.

Some do. As I've said repeatedly, there are many
ways to skin this cat, and different restaurants choose
differently depending on their clientele.


And as I've said repeatedly, there are some things which lie at the
very heart of what it means to eat with company that it's asinine to
charge for it as if it was beyond the call of duty for the restaurant.

They penalize
the light eater because the light eater is the one causing
the revenue problem!


There is NO PROBLEM, except wishing to define it as such.

It's no different from any other
business having a minimum order.


A minimum order stipulation is FAIR.

A plate-sharing fee is PURE GREED. Obviously a person would rather
just buy a $6 salad than have to pay a $6 fee for nothing. So if your
concern is to sell more food, why not give the man a salad to go? But
no, the poor businessman would rather charge a fee for nothing instead
of stating upfront that there is a minimum order necessary.

GREED. DISHONESTY.

Some companies choose
to limit things by having a minimum order.


So just come out and say it instead of pussy-footing around with
fine-print legalese like a car commercial.

Other companies
allow small orders, but have to make up the lost money
in other ways.


There is NO "lost" money.

Did you "lose" money by not having been an investment banker? Did you
"lose" money by not having been President of the United States? Did
you "lose" anything by having spent time and calories opening the door
for someone who didn't acknowledge your courtesy?

Which they choose depends on their business
model, same as the restaurant.


NO. Actually, as this conversation makes clear, it all depends on who
they can get to put up with the scheme.

Fortunately, there are lots
of restaurants out there. If you don't like the policies of
this one, don't go back. You'll still end up paying for
things one way or another at other restaurants, but if
you find it more palatable, then that's absolutely your
prerogative.


Of course it is, no one's arguing that.

Best wishes,
Ericka



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Old 21-04-2006, 06:25 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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On 18 Apr 2006 16:37:39 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

I don't see how you can really rush your diners through their meals.
But again, raising prices by a mere nickel all-around isn't going to
discourage anyone if your cooking's any good, and it saves you from
being a petty cheapskate about something as simple as sharing dishes.


In order to get the six dollars for plate-sharing out of a price increase,
you'd have to sell 120 items per plate-sharing. [1] If you think that
this only happens once in 120 item-sales, go ahead.

Oh, wait, I forgot. It's not your restaurant.

So, if this is still an etiquette question, the answer lies in the concept,
"don't give unsolicited advice." That means you can tell the restaurant
owner you don't like the plate-sharing charge, because you are a customer.
But you can't tell him it's stupid or that it will ruin his business.

-JoAnne

[1] This assumes that not charging for the plate-sharing won't encourage
more people to do it.

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Old 21-04-2006, 06:37 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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Ericka Kammerer wrote:


But its profitability goes down.


What, every diner that walks through the door ought to spend X amount
of money to be welcome?

Profitability does NOT go down. It is GREED that makes people so
petty-minded as to think that if they aren't making money every second,
"profitability" is "down."

My father, the former restauranteur, is a real businessman. He can
turn a nickel into a dollar. It's the Chinese peasant in him (yeah,
you think the hundreds of billions in US-China trade surpluses are due
to unfair competition? Bah!). He's now almost eighty years old. What
does he do in his golden years? Calculating how to turn that dollar
into ten dollars.

Many people find it admirable. I think it's missing the whole point of
life.

Just as y'all here are missing the whole point of providing a service
and enjoying food.

While the variable
costs go down, the fixed costs stay the same regardless. You
have to cover *both* the variable and the fixed costs. Again,
Econ 101. Too much plate sharing and you can't cover the fixed
costs.


Apples and oranges -- more like PHIL 101, ethics. The cost of
plate-sharing is imagined. This culture sees time itself as money, so
I concede this thread, this whole thread (but nothing but this thread),
to the reigning culture of green grubby greasy greed, gross and
grasping.

Smiles aren't free, either.

Best wishes,
Ericka


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Old 21-04-2006, 08:05 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,misc.consumers,sci.econ
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Fees and surcharges above and beyond the menu price are bogus.

I have a friend who won't eat anywhere that doesn't include tax in the
price and he fusses a lot if the prices aren't all rounded to the
nearest quarter.


Rounded *UP* to the nearest quarter? You know that's what will
happen, don't you?

Quick business lesson: do you know why MOST places charge prices that
end in .95? Because that gimmick works. Oh sure, you & I and everyone
else all think we're smart enough to recognize that $12.95 = $13.00 --
in fact, we even look at $12.95 and *SAY* "thirteen dollars"! -- but the


No, I look at $12.95 and say "fifteen dollars less some change
including the sales tax". Or, if it's a restaurant meal, more
including sales tax (if applicable) and tip.

fact of the matter is, a lot of people -- MOST people! -- would pay
$12.95 for something and think it a fair price but would NOT pay $13.00
for the same item, claiming it was over-priced as their #1 reason.


Gordon L. Burditt
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Old 23-04-2006, 01:19 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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NYC XYZ wrote:
Say, what's this crazy fee for sharing that, apparently, some
restaurants charge??

There is this spanish restaurant that charged me some kind of penalty
fee for sharing a pot of seafood paella (or whatever the hell it's
called) with my date who doesn't eat much. The pot of boiled rice and
seafood bits (big deal!), a salad, and two soups was like $30 already,
and the manager charged me like another $6 for sharing! WTF is up with
this??? Is this a very common practice in hoity places?? el senor
claims it's for having to wash the "extra" dishes and ultensils...?how
do you say WTF in espagnol? I dine rather widely and have never heard
of this BS.


I guess you don't get out much, as sharing fees have been on the menu
for decades. Often the wait staff doesn't enforce the sharing fee,
especially if the total order per person is sufficiently high. Other
restaurants implement a minimum order amount per person, which I think
is a fairer way of ensuring that seats are not used by people that
aren't ordering enough to cover the fixed costs.

The Spanish restaurant we go to on occasion, requires two orders to make
a paella, they won't do it for one person.



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Old 23-04-2006, 01:23 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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Steve Pope wrote:
NYC XYZ wrote:

I'm simply unconvinced that plate-sharing eats into anyone's business.


It might, but I've very unconvinced plate-sharing charges
actually solve any economic or operational problems for the typical
restaurant that imposes them. I think it's more of an irrational
reaction to a restauranteur's belief that diners are under-ordering.
And I don't see how it affects over-lingering at all. I would
think the customer who pays an extra fee would feel entitled
to stay at his table longer.


The minimum order per person may be a better solution than the sharing
charge, in areas where under-ordering is a problem.
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Old 23-04-2006, 01:29 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,us.legal
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ZedBanty wrote:

You missed the point. The *point* worth considering is that this restaurant may
be more subject to frequent expectations to serve one meal to two diners because
of what they serve (analogously to how the maternity store is much more subject
to the abuse that a nice maternity dress is 'free-rented' for one evening's wear
by purchase then return than the regular women's boutique down the street).
Another option may be to only offer paella as a "for two" meal. I've seen that
for, for example, rack of lamb. But that destoys the option for a single meal.
Or they can cut portions, but that compromises the expectations of a lot of
diners, also. (I personally would vote for that, since portions in the U.S. are
overly huge to begin with, but then, I'm not the one with a business looking to
serve a customer set.)


If they serve small portions, then some people will complain, correctly
stating the ingredient cost is such a small fraction of expenses, that
it's chintzy to serve small portions. If they serve large portions, then
people will share meals, which is economically unfeasible if it occurs a
lot.
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Old 23-04-2006, 05:23 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,misc.consumers
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SMS wrote:


I guess you don't get out much,


I guess you missed the part where I noted that I dine rather widely.

as sharing fees have been on the menu
for decades.


Oh, man, it's worse than I thought!

Often the wait staff doesn't enforce the sharing fee,
especially if the total order per person is sufficiently high. Other
restaurants implement a minimum order amount per person, which I think
is a fairer way of ensuring that seats are not used by people that
aren't ordering enough to cover the fixed costs.


What the hell, just have a damn cover charge or something, then! I
mean, honestly, if it's about minimum orders and all, let's come out
with it. It's damned ridiculous to have to note the fine print when
you're in a restaurant trying to relax with good food and company.

The Spanish restaurant we go to on occasion, requires two orders to make
a paella, they won't do it for one person.


There you go, a paella is a communal dish! What the hell are they
expecting, anyway? If it weren't for not wanting to make a scene in
front of the date (who was a bit incredulous herself), I would have
insisted he bagged us a salad to go for the stupid $6 fee! Why, had I
known this restauranteur was on the verge of starvation because of
plate-sharing diners, I would have had ready in hand for him a referral
card for the local soup kitchen!

Don't you just love these penny-pinching businessmen who claim costs
and poverty while exploiting illegals in the kitchen....

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Old 23-04-2006, 05:24 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,alt.business.hospitality
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SMS wrote:


The minimum order per person may be a better solution than the sharing
charge, in areas where under-ordering is a problem.



Per person may be carrying things too far...surely you don't really
mean that? Sales are calculated by the table, aren't they -- you don't
seat strangers at the same table, after all. So if sales are by the
table, then the tab per table is what counts, regardless of which
individuals at the table consumes what amount.

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Old 23-04-2006, 06:04 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,misc.consumers
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NYC XYZ wrote:
SMS wrote:

I guess you don't get out much,


I guess you missed the part where I noted that I dine rather widely.

as sharing fees have been on the menu
for decades.


Oh, man, it's worse than I thought!

Often the wait staff doesn't enforce the sharing fee,
especially if the total order per person is sufficiently high. Other
restaurants implement a minimum order amount per person, which I think
is a fairer way of ensuring that seats are not used by people that
aren't ordering enough to cover the fixed costs.


What the hell, just have a damn cover charge or something, then!


The minimum order is an alternative to a cover charge. Just like some
night clubs are "no cover, two drink minimum."


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Old 23-04-2006, 06:06 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,alt.business.hospitality
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NYC XYZ wrote:
SMS wrote:

The minimum order per person may be a better solution than the sharing
charge, in areas where under-ordering is a problem.



Per person may be carrying things too far...surely you don't really
mean that?


Many restaurants have per person minimums, though as long as the total
bill divided by the number of people is more than the minimum, that's
all that matters.
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Old 23-04-2006, 06:32 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,alt.business.hospitality
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In article . com,
"NYC XYZ" wrote:

SMS wrote:
The minimum order per person may be a better solution than the sharing
charge, in areas where under-ordering is a problem.


Per person may be carrying things too far...surely you don't really
mean that? Sales are calculated by the table, aren't they -- you don't
seat strangers at the same table, after all. So if sales are by the
table, then the tab per table is what counts, regardless of which
individuals at the table consumes what amount.


Regardless of the logic or intention of it, yes, many restaurants have a
per-person minimum order. However, it's typically quite low &
reasonable, as to almost be a non-factor (i.e., it's typically less than
half the price of a reasonable meal, so you could order a burger, your
friend nothing, and still meet the minimum order.)

And, like sharing fee, it's often not really enforced.

I think that the min-per-order thing might be in areas with a large
"starving student" population -- or perhaps high homelessness -- and the
gist of it seems to be "we don't want half a dozen of you kids sitting
around all afternoon while one of your orders a soda with free refills
and you all drink off of it" kind of thing.

Darn those kids!

--
Please take off your shoes before arriving at my in-box.
I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends
unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups.
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Old 23-04-2006, 06:55 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general
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"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...

Say, what's this crazy fee for sharing that, apparently, some
restaurants charge??

There is this spanish restaurant that charged me some kind of penalty
fee for sharing a pot of seafood paella (or whatever the hell it's
called) with my date who doesn't eat much. The pot of boiled rice and
seafood bits (big deal!), a salad, and two soups was like $30 already,
and the manager charged me like another $6 for sharing! WTF is up with
this??? Is this a very common practice in hoity places?? el senor
claims it's for having to wash the "extra" dishes and ultensils...?how
do you say WTF in espagnol? I dine rather widely and have never heard
of this BS.


I don't understand why you're so upset about this. I don't eat out all that
often but I know that sharing charges aren't that uncommon. I've seen them
listed on menus many times.

From now on, check the menu carefully. If there is a charge for sharing, it
should be listed, typically at the bottom of the menu in the same place
where a restaurant might point out that a gratuity will be added to the bill
for parties of more than a certain number of people. If a sharing charge is
listed and it offends you that much, then leave without ordering. (After
paying for drinks or whatever that you've already received, of course.)

If the menu doesn't list a sharing charge then let the waiter know when you
order that you intend to share. If the waiter tells you then there's a
charge, politely state that under that circumstance you'll be leaving, and
go. (Again of course after paying for anything you ordered and received.)

If you're not informed either in writing or by the waiter that there's a
charge for sharing, then I think you have a legitimate complaint that you
should bring up with the restaurant's manager. Otherwise I don't see that
you have cause for complaint.

Anny


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Old 27-04-2006, 09:44 PM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,misc.consumers
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I guess people will put up with anything...how else to explain the
profusion of fees, charges, and surcharges for every goddamned little
thing?

Next up: your 401 (k)!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...la-home-right1


Oh, wait a minute..."I don't know why you're upset...I've seen them
before...."



Alan Moorman wrote:
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:55:06 GMT, "Anny Middon"
wrote:


I don't understand why you're so upset about this. I don't eat out all that
often but I know that sharing charges aren't that uncommon. I've seen them
listed on menus many times.

Don't know where you live, but I've never heard of it before!



Alan
__________________________________

Our President Speaks:
"I glance at the headlines just to kind of a flavor for what's moving. I
rarely read the stories, and get briefed by people who are probably read the
news themselves."-Washington, D.C., Sept. 21, 2003


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Old 28-04-2006, 07:37 AM posted to nyc.food,rec.food.restaurants,alt.fan.miss-manners,ny.general,misc.consumers
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On 27 Apr 2006 13:44:05 -0700, "NYC XYZ" wrote:

I guess people will put up with anything...how else to explain the
profusion of fees, charges, and surcharges for every goddamned little
thing?

Next up: your 401 (k)!


Is this still relevant to alt.fan.miss-manners?

-JoAnne

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