"Anthony" wrote:

The OP is outraged that certain
unlicensed restaurants propose a $5 corkage fee. For this they will provide
glasses, open and pour the wine, do the washing up, clean up any spills and
replace any breakages.

This is such an "ordinary" fee that we even have it here in the hills of East
Tennessee. Corkage is just about even with tipping. The OP should stay home
and make room for the rest of us. I am just outraged to see a crowded lobby in
any restaurant.

"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"Afta12345" wrote in message
om...
Did it ever occur to you that the
fee bothered me because I considered it wrong *on principle*?

Ah yes, nothing like good old "principle" for justifying ****ing people
over.

It occurs to me that new readers may not know, and old readers may have
forgotten, what this is all about. The OP is outraged that certain
unlicensed restaurants propose a $5 corkage fee. For this they will
provide
glasses, open and pour the wine, do the washing up, clean up any spills
and
replace any breakages. In his opening salvo he urged us all to join with
him in boycotting restaurants who engage in this nefarious practice thus
bringing them to their knees and their senses. "On principle", of course
so
that makes it okay. I said he was a cheap asshole. I now say he's a
cheap
and prolix asshole. Self-justifying to boot.



warning
pent up anger about tipping

****ing restauartant owners won't pay wait staff adequate wages
and
customers are supposed to carry the cost of this rip off ???

****ing wait people and restaurant business are to sastify the
paying cusomers - not the other way arouind

you want our business you make us happy

if I (the customer) is expected to pay the difference between
an adequate livingw wage and what the restaurants will pay
then I expect gratitiude and excellent service
plus
If I'm not happy then I should be able to fire the son of a bitches
who don't make me happy

****ing assholes who expect me to make up for what the owners
won't pay had better grow up and get their ****ing attitudes
straightened out

/warning

pan "you get what I think you deserve"

"pan" wrote in message
...
****ing assholes who expect me to make up for what the owners
won't pay had better grow up and get their ****ing attitudes
straightened out

Maybe you ought to go back on your meds?

"Anthony" wrote in message ...
"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"Afta12345" wrote in message
om...
Did it ever occur to you that the
fee bothered me because I considered it wrong *on principle*?

Ah yes, nothing like good old "principle" for justifying ****ing people
over.

It occurs to me that new readers may not know, and old readers may have
forgotten, what this is all about. The OP is outraged that certain
unlicensed restaurants propose a $5 corkage fee. For this they will provide
glasses, open and pour the wine, do the washing up, clean up any spills and
replace any breakages. In his opening salvo he urged us all to join with
him in boycotting restaurants who engage in this nefarious practice thus
bringing them to their knees and their senses. "On principle", of course so
that makes it okay. I said he was a cheap asshole. I now say he's a cheap
and prolix asshole. Self-justifying to boot.

Well, I can see this is going nowhere. You're used to interacting
with adolescents, trying to "win" arguments against imagined foes by
thinking up vulgar comebacks to strawmen instead of intelligently
offering opinions or reasons that *really* touch on the issue. And if
the jury here consists of those with the intellect and emotional
maturity of 12-year olds, then I'm sure you've already won the day.
So I won't bother you anymore. Bye.

"pan" wrote:

fuc

get back in school and learn vocabulary. You display knowledge of few words.
It could be the key to any success in life.

If I were a Restaurant (without having or applying for a liquor license)
owner, would welcome ANY bottle carrying customers AND make them feel like
Kings & Queens....

Giving then two wine glasses & a corkscrew (I would NEVER expect my good
guest to carry a corkscrew with them to an Italian or French, or for the
matter, any upscale restaurant, unless they were fond of the one they owned)
would be as SIMPLE as setting the table.........AS SIMPLE......

To mingle with the customers, be it the owner, chef or manager & complement
on the wine selection (possibly be invited to sample it) would endear any
diner to become a faithful customer....

WHEN will Restaurant owners comprehend that they have the unique opportunity
to have a customer become part of their family?

Joe







"Afta12345" wrote in message
om...
I recently thought about going to an Italian restaurant near where I
live (Cincinnati), and I found out that they don't have a liquor
license, but allow you to bring in your own wine. However, they
charge you a $5.00 uncorking fee *even if you bring your own corkscrew
and do it yourself*. I think that's nuts.

I think uncorking fees make fine sense if a restaurant *already*
serves wine. Then they're charging you a fee to allow you to bring in
an outside wine, which cuts into their sales. Fair enough exchange in
my eyes.

But when we're talking about an Italian restaurant with no wine. Of
course, 99% of the clientele are going to want wine with an Italian
dish. So if I want to go to this place, it is incumbent on *me* to go
to the store, buy wine, and haul it to the restaurant. Then for them
to charge me for that wine that I took the trouble to get, *and* have
me *tip* more on the basis of the total check, I'm getting charged
*three* times for that wine. Crazy.

And I don't buy it when people say "Oh, they're providing you with
labor, glasses, and dishwashing, so they need to cover their costs."
Look, I proposed that *I* will do the uncorking with *my* corkscrew,
but she insisted they will still charge the fee. So labor is not an
issue. If my lady and I ask for a couple of glasses of water, it
"costs" the restaurant "labor, glasses, and dishwashing," so I don't
see a difference there. If they started charging customers $5.00 for
a couple of glasses of water, they'd all get up, walk out, and never
come back.

Once again, I think uncorking fees make perfect sense if the
restaurant has a liquor license and offers wine. Frankly, it's crap
otherwise. I know of other very nice restaurants without licenses
that *don't* charge uncorking fees and are doing nicely.

Bottom line: I'm not going to any license-less restaurant with corking
fees, making sure restaurants that do this know how I feel, and I hope
you guys do the same. Together we can change the world! (or at least
put an end to a fee without any justification that only exists because
people tolerate it due to lack of reflection on the issue.)

Cheers!

I don't understand what all of the fuss is over.

Do the customers that object to an uncorking fee think that Reidel glasses are
free?

The original poster balked at a nominal fee. If you (restaurant owner /
operator) can't even cover your breakage costs why bother?

The original poster also scoffed at restaurants that don't have a liquor
license. Are you aware that in some parts of the country the liquor license
can cost upwards of $500,000.

Just some food for thought.


trevor

Afta12345 posted in message
om...
I recently thought about going to an Italian restaurant near
where I live (Cincinnati), and I found out that they don't
have a liquor license, but allow you to bring in your own
wine. However, they charge you a $5.00 uncorking fee
*even if you bring your own corkscrew and do it yourself*.
I think that's nuts.

First, I don't feel you have a case to complain about being charged a
corking fee. The restaurant is providing you a service, whether you agree or
not, and that service is as simple as a table and roof from which to enjoy
your wine. (And, no, not everyone expects wine with their Italian meals.)

The fact that they don't have a liquor license is insignificant.

I think uncorking fees make fine sense if a restaurant *already*
serves wine.

Why? Both business are charging you for the privilege of using their
restaurant and servers.

Then they're charging you a fee to allow you to
bring in an outside wine, which cuts into their sales. Fair
enough exchange in my eyes.

That's fine but it's a tangent that needent be considered, either. You could
as easily ordered water and there would have been no additional charge.

But when we're talking about an Italian restaurant with no wine.
Of course, 99% of the clientele are going to want wine with an
Italian dish.

Is this a fine-dining restaurant or a family restaurant. There's a BIG
difference and the manner in which sales are conducted are different as a
result.

So if I want to go to this place, it is incumbent on
*me* to go to the store, buy wine, and haul it to the restaurant.
Then for them to charge me for that wine that I took the trouble
to get, *and* have me *tip* more on the basis of the total check,
I'm getting charged *three* times for that wine. Crazy.

No, it's not, and the reason is you are bringing in a special wine (whether
it's special or not, you went to all that trouble to find, purchase, port,
cork, and pour it in a restaurant you already know doesn't serve alchohol.)
They are then providing you a table and a roof where you may enjoy your
tipple. It's not crazy at all.

And I don't buy it when people say "Oh, they're providing you
with labor, glasses, and dishwashing, so they need to cover their
costs." Look, I proposed that *I* will do the uncorking with
*my* corkscrew, but she insisted they will still charge the fee.
So labor is not an issue. If my lady and I ask for a couple of
glasses of water, it "costs" the restaurant "labor, glasses, and
dishwashing," so I don't see a difference there.

Wine glasswares are higher in cost than institutional water glassware. (Not
by much but in a business that only has an average ROI of 7-8%, that adds up
quickly.)

If they started charging customers $5.00 for a couple of glasses
of water, they'd all get up, walk out, and never come back.

No, the customers would stop getting water.

Once again, I think uncorking fees make perfect sense if the
restaurant has a liquor license and offers wine.

You keep repeating this but it's not a valid point. They are still providing
you a service, whether you believe it true or not. They cannot provide
things for free (for long) so the business model adapts and revenues streams
are sourced to assist in their continued livelihood.

Frankly, it's
crap otherwise. I know of other very nice restaurants without
licenses that *don't* charge uncorking fees and are doing nicely.

Yet you don't eat there; why?

Bottom line: I'm not going to any license-less restaurant with
corking fees,

That's your right.

making sure restaurants that do this know how I feel,

Please do. You should always let management know how you feel (in writing)
when you feel something is unfair, or not up to expectations. They
appreciate non-provocative* feedback.

and I hope you guys do the same. Together we can change the world!

I don't and hope corkage fees continue.

Corkage fees are justified and assist the business.

The Ranger

* A Letter should always be professional in approach, error-free, and
concise. The moment A Letter contains any of the following -- personal
innuendoes, swearing, or poor spelling and grammar -- it is rarely
acknowledged.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You make many provoking comments.
I'll address each one below:

First, I don't feel you have a case to complain about being charged a
corking fee. The restaurant is providing you a service, whether you agree or
not, and that service is as simple as a table and roof from which to enjoy
your wine. (And, no, not everyone expects wine with their Italian meals.)

Well, in a sense, you're right. If someone doesn't like the way
restaurants charge for the dining experience, then they just shouldn't
go there. It's entirely up to the restaurant owner to decide how he
wants to break up the charges (mark up the wine, mark down the dishes,
charge a corking fee or not, etc.).

I guess my issue with uncorking-fees-at-licenseless-restaurants (UFLR)
is that the practice strikes me as unfair and arbitrary. Again,
you're right that it's their call, their right to charge what they
want for whatever. I guess my original post was basically a venting
of sorts at what I perceived as unfair and hence it was unfortunate
that there goes a potentially good restaurant that I won't be trying.

Imagine going to a restaurant and being told that there is a $5.00
"table-setting fee". Every reason people have given against my
initial response to UFLR (it's the owner's right to charge what he
wants, they're providing services, a roof, dishes, labor) could be
used to justify a "table-setting fee." I suppose some of you would
have no problem with paying a "table-setting fee" for those reasons.
However, such a fee would bug me and I would not go to that restaurant
because of what I perceived to be an arbitrary fee. So the question I
would ask is would such a fee bother you, and if so, why?

Am I the only one who has felt a tad put off by the oodles of fees
that show up at the end of your monthly phone bills and cellular
bills? If you've ever felt like any of those fees were annoying or
unfair, well then that's where I'm at with UFLR.

I think uncorking fees make fine sense if a restaurant *already*
serves wine.

Why? Both business are charging you for the privilege of using their
restaurant and servers.

Well, the historically understood justification for an uncorking fee
at a restaurant that serves wine is that they are letting you bring in
an outside wine *instead* of buying one of theirs. Clearly that
justification can't fully apply to UFLR.

Is this a fine-dining restaurant or a family restaurant. There's a BIG
difference and the manner in which sales are conducted are different as a
result.

This restaurant attempts fine-dining. I never went, so I can't say
how well it succeeds.

Wine glasswares are higher in cost than institutional water glassware. (Not
by much but in a business that only has an average ROI of 7-8%, that adds up
quickly.)

Fair enough.

If they started charging customers $5.00 for a couple of glasses
of water, they'd all get up, walk out, and never come back.

No, the customers would stop getting water.

I suppose we would see a variety of responses by customers. However,
at minimum, such a fee for water would be a foolish business practice
as there *are* people who would consider it preposterous and not
return to that restaurant. Some of my surprise at UFLR is it seems
like poor business practice. If a restaurant owner can't afford a
license (which I can understand), then he should realize he is at a
*disadvantage* to those similar restaurants that do have a license,
and that charging an uncorking fee while without a license will seem
arbitrary to at least a few people, and hence put himself at an even
*further* disadvantage overall. If it's $5.00 a visit he needs, then
he ought to consider putting those charges *into* other items. If
dinner there costs $45 for two people normally, how many people who
are willing to pay that will be upset if each item costs $1.00 more,
resulting in $50 for the overall check? Probably not that many.

Frankly, it's
crap otherwise. I know of other very nice restaurants without
licenses that *don't* charge uncorking fees and are doing nicely.

Yet you don't eat there; why?

I *do* eat at those restaurants. Did I say somewhere that I didn't?

making sure restaurants that do this know how I feel,

Please do. You should always let management know how you feel (in writing)
when you feel something is unfair, or not up to expectations. They
appreciate non-provocative* feedback.

Thanks for the tip. I told them over the phone in a polite way.

Corkage fees are justified and assist the business.

But from your reasoning, so would be table-setting fees, busboy fees,
candle-lighting fees, draping-your-coat-on-the-chair fees,
smile-from-the-owner fees, and background-music fees. It wouldn't
bother you to see any of these fees show up on your check?

Thanks again for the intelligent and level-headed response!

Do the customers that object to an uncorking fee think that Reidel glasses
are
free?

ALL...All Restaurants can have inexpensive wine glasses....no one in their
right mind would expect crystal when bringing their own bottle.

READ MY POST AND COMMENT....Please!

I deal with quite a few restaurant owners, most are lucky enough to have a
liquor license, but the others find profit, even if you don't charge the
"obscene" dork cork fee!

Even Burger King gave/still gives McDonald's a run for simply one
reason....."Have it your way".....not to mean the customer can do anything,
but at least has some input........Even McDonald's now, will let you change
things....I know it not like bringing wine into a Fast Food place, but I
have seen Fast Food employees giving cups to people that bring bottled
/spring water & exotic brands while ordering a meal!


I refuse to eat at a restaurant that is unwavering in menu..........NO
RESTAURANT CAN BE THAT ARROGANT...and keep customers in the long
run...EXCUSE ME.....there are a few restaurants with food so outstanding
they can do this, but theses are exceptions.

Joe



"Opus X225" wrote in message
...
I don't understand what all of the fuss is over.

Do the customers that object to an uncorking fee think that Reidel glasses
are
free?

The original poster balked at a nominal fee. If you (restaurant owner /
operator) can't even cover your breakage costs why bother?

The original poster also scoffed at restaurants that don't have a liquor
license. Are you aware that in some parts of the country the liquor
license
can cost upwards of $500,000.

Just some food for thought.


trevor

Do the customers that object to an uncorking fee think that Reidel glasses
are
free?

ALL...All Restaurants can have inexpensive wine glasses....no one in their
right mind would expect crystal when bringing their own bottle.

READ MY POST AND COMMENT....Please!

I did read your post. You are just trolling.

Even inexpensive stem ware breaks at a much higher rate than other glassware.

What do fast food joints have to do with your original arguement?

Trevor

Opus X225 wrote:


What do fast food joints have to do with your original arguement?

Trevor

Maybe he is referring to the Micky D's outside the West wall of Windsor
Castle, where they have waitress service and a wine list.
JJ

"Opus X225" wrote in message
...


I did read your post. You are just trolling.

That or he has waaaaaay too much time on his hands and anger in his heart.
Not sure you should be stoking his fire!

LOL.....

Yea, I guess this subject is beat........see you on the next trolling....;-)

"Bartender pleass get that lady a drink"....Bartender states "I wouldn't do
that if I was you, she's a hooker".

"ell maybe she needs another golf instructor, hic, anyways, get her a
drink".


"Anthony" wrote in message
...

"Opus X225" wrote in message
...


I did read your post. You are just trolling.

That or he has waaaaaay too much time on his hands and anger in his heart.
Not sure you should be stoking his fire!

I think perhaps that you missed the basis for the corkage fee - it is to
recover a loss from a (potential, but probable) beverage sale. Your 'table
setting fee' doesn't relate, and is already built into the menu prices (to
cover the labor for whomever is setting your table).

Along the same lines, would you expect a restaurant to allow you to bring in
your own meal? Would a 'plating fee' be reasonable to you if they did?
Many restaurants *do* charge to split entrees between more than one guest -
for the same reason as the corkage fee.

Keep in mind that most restaurants are extremely lucky if their net profit
is 1% of sales.

Now that I've stated my question ... here is my answer

One casual dining restaurant I managed had a group of about 12 that came in
weekly (they sold magnets that were supposed to cure all your ails - don't
ask!). Two were on special diets and brought their own (weight watchers)
meals. I happily let them do it as long as they gave the meals to us so we
could insure that they were served at the proper temperature (I can just see
the lawsuit now ... 'I brought my own meal and got food poisoning, now I'm
suing them!'). If this had been other than a casual dining restaurant my
actions would likely have been different. In this instance, my loss was
more than made up for by the other guests at their table, and I wanted them
to feel welcomed in my establishment. If *all* of them had done it, I
certainly have charged them a 'room rental' or 'beverage service' fee.


Brett

"doodoogle" wrote in message
m...
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. You make many provoking comments.
I'll address each one below:

First, I don't feel you have a case to complain about being charged a
corking fee. The restaurant is providing you a service, whether you agree
or
not, and that service is as simple as a table and roof from which to
enjoy
your wine. (And, no, not everyone expects wine with their Italian meals.)

Well, in a sense, you're right. If someone doesn't like the way
restaurants charge for the dining experience, then they just shouldn't
go there. It's entirely up to the restaurant owner to decide how he
wants to break up the charges (mark up the wine, mark down the dishes,
charge a corking fee or not, etc.).

I guess my issue with uncorking-fees-at-licenseless-restaurants (UFLR)
is that the practice strikes me as unfair and arbitrary. Again,
you're right that it's their call, their right to charge what they
want for whatever. I guess my original post was basically a venting
of sorts at what I perceived as unfair and hence it was unfortunate
that there goes a potentially good restaurant that I won't be trying.

Imagine going to a restaurant and being told that there is a $5.00
"table-setting fee". Every reason people have given against my
initial response to UFLR (it's the owner's right to charge what he
wants, they're providing services, a roof, dishes, labor) could be
used to justify a "table-setting fee." I suppose some of you would
have no problem with paying a "table-setting fee" for those reasons.
However, such a fee would bug me and I would not go to that restaurant
because of what I perceived to be an arbitrary fee. So the question I
would ask is would such a fee bother you, and if so, why?

Am I the only one who has felt a tad put off by the oodles of fees
that show up at the end of your monthly phone bills and cellular
bills? If you've ever felt like any of those fees were annoying or
unfair, well then that's where I'm at with UFLR.

I think uncorking fees make fine sense if a restaurant *already*
serves wine.

Why? Both business are charging you for the privilege of using their
restaurant and servers.

Well, the historically understood justification for an uncorking fee
at a restaurant that serves wine is that they are letting you bring in
an outside wine *instead* of buying one of theirs. Clearly that
justification can't fully apply to UFLR.

Is this a fine-dining restaurant or a family restaurant. There's a BIG
difference and the manner in which sales are conducted are different as a
result.

This restaurant attempts fine-dining. I never went, so I can't say
how well it succeeds.

Wine glasswares are higher in cost than institutional water glassware.
(Not
by much but in a business that only has an average ROI of 7-8%, that adds
up
quickly.)

Fair enough.

If they started charging customers $5.00 for a couple of glasses
of water, they'd all get up, walk out, and never come back.

No, the customers would stop getting water.

I suppose we would see a variety of responses by customers. However,
at minimum, such a fee for water would be a foolish business practice
as there *are* people who would consider it preposterous and not
return to that restaurant. Some of my surprise at UFLR is it seems
like poor business practice. If a restaurant owner can't afford a
license (which I can understand), then he should realize he is at a
*disadvantage* to those similar restaurants that do have a license,
and that charging an uncorking fee while without a license will seem
arbitrary to at least a few people, and hence put himself at an even
*further* disadvantage overall. If it's $5.00 a visit he needs, then
he ought to consider putting those charges *into* other items. If
dinner there costs $45 for two people normally, how many people who
are willing to pay that will be upset if each item costs $1.00 more,
resulting in $50 for the overall check? Probably not that many.

Frankly, it's
crap otherwise. I know of other very nice restaurants without
licenses that *don't* charge uncorking fees and are doing nicely.

Yet you don't eat there; why?

I *do* eat at those restaurants. Did I say somewhere that I didn't?

making sure restaurants that do this know how I feel,

Please do. You should always let management know how you feel (in
writing)
when you feel something is unfair, or not up to expectations. They
appreciate non-provocative* feedback.

Thanks for the tip. I told them over the phone in a polite way.

Corkage fees are justified and assist the business.

But from your reasoning, so would be table-setting fees, busboy fees,
candle-lighting fees, draping-your-coat-on-the-chair fees,
smile-from-the-owner fees, and background-music fees. It wouldn't
bother you to see any of these fees show up on your check?

Thanks again for the intelligent and level-headed response!