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Mojav 18-12-2003 04:32 AM

Imitation Food
 
Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
restaurant.

Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
reputation?

anon 18-12-2003 10:02 AM

Imitation Food
 
In rec.food.restaurants Mojav > wrote:
> Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
> called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
> Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.


> My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
> was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
> restaurant.


> Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
> reputation?


Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

Mr. T 18-12-2003 02:42 PM

Imitation Food
 

"anon" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.food.restaurants Mojav > wrote:
> > Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
> > called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
> > Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.


I agreed with you there... Onetime, I was out of town, and in the mood for a
bowl of PHO so bad. The only place I could found is a chinese rest', and the
PHO was so terrible. They put the damn celery in it....

>
> > My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
> > was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
> > restaurant.

>
> > Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
> > reputation?

>
> Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
> likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
> Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.


PHO is originated from Vietnam. Apparently you have not had PHO yet to
compare PHO with RAMEN.



Gerry 19-12-2003 12:21 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
>
> >Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> >restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>
> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> stock).


Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.
Big thick chewy things wholly unlike ramen. Ramen are thin spindly
things. And the broth is different and the ingredients are different.
And the side-plate of salad ingredients to be added are different. To
be fair, the long cylinderical aspects are the same! And it's soup!

It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
try some pho some time.

Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
exaclty a soufle or anything.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Andy_L123 19-12-2003 04:15 AM

Imitation Food
 
Gerry > wrote in message > ...
> In article >, Steve Wertz
> > wrote:
>
> > On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
> >
> > >Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> > >restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

> >
> > Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> > complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> > takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> > stock).

>
> Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.
> Big thick chewy things wholly unlike ramen. Ramen are thin spindly
> things. And the broth is different and the ingredients are different.
> And the side-plate of salad ingredients to be added are different. To
> be fair, the long cylinderical aspects are the same! And it's soup!
>
> It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
> try some pho some time.
>
> Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
> run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
> exaclty a soufle or anything.


__________________________________________________ ____________________________

hahhahhdhdhdhhdhhdhe`, what do U know about food chain??????
Pho in SG are mixed with Chinese, French, and VNese. they are not the
Original Omore, Japanese are noodles n ho****er? Chinese are Sharp fin
soup n S/S pork...Most of VNese Pho are looked Pho but the key is the
smell of Pho, when U smell U then U wanna eat..All pho U C r looked
like Pho not smell or taste like Pho yet.... if U go to Van Phong Bay
U will C a few good but U wanna taste better go swim on the Beach and
it burn most of your energy n your chemical in your body that will
increase your taste....they r many chemical of food in VN are good U
don't try it yet.. no Italy spaghetti=meat ball, mushroom n tomato
sauces or pizza, only cream, cheese, bettter, salt, pepper,
ect........or U can Ca' Mai Shu C n Salad

I'm just guessing

p96bf 19-12-2003 05:23 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
Pho made from white rice and taste like white rice. Ramen made from yellow
wheet or some thing not rice.

Steve Wertz wrote in message ...
>On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:47:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrav >
>wrote:
>
>>In la.eats Steve Wertz > wrote:
>>> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:

>>
>>> >Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>> >restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>>
>>> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
>>> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
>>> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
>>> stock).

>>
>>> -sw

>>
>>Here is one recipe I found. Perhaps Mr or Ms Tran could comment
>>on its authenticity:
>>
>>http://www.recipesource.com/text/eth...amese/pho2.txt

>
>I do a lot of vietnamese cooking (and eating out) and yes, it's a
>pretty authentic recipe, other than the addition or substitution of
>some veggies/herbs that are not commonly available here in the US.
>This is what you'll find in most US restaurants, though some places
>are likely to take shortcuts on the stock.
>
>-sw




Gerry 19-12-2003 06:40 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:21:22 -0800, Gerry >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >, Steve Wertz
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
> >>
> >> >Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> >> >restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.
> >>
> >> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> >> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> >> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> >> stock).

> >
> >Pho noodles are closer to Japanese udon than to Chinese ramen noodles.

>
> Noodles in pho are usually rice or egg noodles. Most places give you
> a choice of the two, and in the case of rice noodles - sometimes you
> can get specifiy large or small noodles. At least in my experience.


My experience is that pho noodles are always rice, and they are a large
noodle. They have mi, which is egg noodles. A sturdy egg noodle, also
in a soup, though this time a chicken broth. And they have the "glass
noodle" medium sized; I forget the name but it's not called pho.

I've never seen a choice of noodle in pho. The idea of having small or
large, rice or egg, beef or chicken: I don't think the choice is about
pho, so much as it's a choice over everything they have for sale.

I'm not Vietnamese, so can't say anything for sure. But I've certainly
eaten my fair share of Vietnamese food.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 19-12-2003 06:42 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article > , Andy_L123
> wrote:

> > It's kind of like saying that pho is basically spaghetti. "Anon" should
> > try some pho some time.
> >
> > Nevertheless I've had pho at maybe 40 different places and I've yet to
> > run into anything that could be considered "bad". But then it wasn't
> > exaclty a soufle or anything.

>
> __________________________________________________ ____________________________
>
> hahhahhdhdhdhhdhhdhe`, what do U know about food chain??????


I don't eat in chain restaurants. What else do I need to know?

> Pho in SG are mixed with Chinese, French, and VNese. they are not the
> Original Omore, Japanese are noodles n ho****er? Chinese are Sharp fin
> soup n S/S pork...Most of VNese Pho are looked Pho but the key is the
> smell of Pho, when U smell U then U wanna eat..All pho U C r looked
> like Pho not smell or taste like Pho yet.... if U go to Van Phong Bay
> U will C a few good but U wanna taste better go swim on the Beach and
> it burn most of your energy n your chemical in your body that will
> increase your taste....they r many chemical of food in VN are good U
> don't try it yet.. no Italy spaghetti=meat ball, mushroom n tomato
> sauces or pizza, only cream, cheese, bettter, salt, pepper,
> ect........or U can Ca' Mai Shu C n Salad
>
> I'm just guessing


Very educational. Don't forget to take your medication.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

anon 19-12-2003 06:59 AM

Imitation Food
 
In rec.food.restaurants Steve Wertz > wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:


>>Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.


> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> stock).


> -sw


Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
ingredients. The concept is the same.

Gerry 20-12-2003 05:55 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, anon
> wrote:

> >>Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> >>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>
> > Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> > complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> > takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> > stock).

>
> Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
> actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
> ingredients. The concept is the same.


That's about as reductionist as you can get.

I think this is wrong for two basic reasons. These two basic reasons
are the noodle and the broth.

In Pho the noodle is (generally) rice noodle. I read the Vietnamese
cookbooks and they talk about the myriad approaches available in
Vietnam, all apparently called pho. I'm talking about what's really
available in Little Saigon, Westminster, CA.

In Ramen the noodle is wheat flour. The noodles tastes different, is
texturally different and is different in size. The broths are
different. Pho has complex tastes that are specifically Vietnamese in
ingredients and approach. Ramen has tastes associated with the Japanese
view of Chinese tastes.

In Pho you have fresh been sprouts and hot chilis and other claptrap on
a side dish. With Ramen you have ginger and mustard and other kinds of
claptrap to add or avoid.

In big reductionist picture, yes, Ramen, Pho and Campbell's Chicken
noodles soup are all, pretty much the same thing. Just like hominids of
different races, species, cultures and languages are all pretty much
the same thing.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Andy_L123 20-12-2003 10:01 AM

Imitation Food
 
anon > wrote in message >...
> In rec.food.restaurants Steve Wertz > wrote:
> > On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:

>
> >>Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
> >>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>
> > Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
> > complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
> > takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
> > stock).

>
> > -sw

>
> Preparation may vary depending on the choice of ingredients, but in the
> actual cooking, you are, again, basically making ramen with higher-quality
> ingredients. The concept is the same.

__________________________________________________ ____________________________

Food is food 2 fillup your guts. good or not is basic on where U r n
your tongues make of DNA...1 things can make all happy...as long U r
happy n healthy n pho is pho, hamburger is hamburger...

Chris Morton 28-12-2003 10:59 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, anon says...
>
>In rec.food.restaurants Mojav > wrote:
>> Friends have been encouraging me to try a type Vietnamese noodle soup
>> called "PHO". Unfortunately, I had pho for the first time at a Chinese-
>> Vietnamese (I didn't know any better). It was terrible.

>
>> My second time having pho was at an authentic Vietnamese. The difference
>> was so great that I now have decided never having pho at a Chinese
>> restaurant.

>
>> Why is it that Chinese often imitate Vietnamese food and ruin its
>> reputation?

>
>Considering the popularity of Chinese food over Vietnamese, it's more
>likely that a Chinese-Vietnamese restaurant would be Vietnamese imitating
>Chinese. Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.


A basic hamburger is hard to **** up too, but I give you Hardees.

Actually, there are many ethnic Chinese in Vietnam and Korea. One of our better
neighborhood Chinese restaurants in the Cleveland suburbs is run by Vietnamese.
A Chinese restaurant on Hwy 31W near Ft. Knox where I used to eat is run by
Koreans. You can see them write up the order in Hangul. The food was decent.

I was fortunate enough to live next door to a very good Vietnamese restaurant in
Berea, OH called Minh Anh(?). Their Bun Bo Xao was outstanding, as were their
spring rolls. Their Chinese food was mediocre at best. There's also a very
good Vietnamese restaurant in Lakewood, OH called as a matter of fact, "Pho".
It's a little hole in the wall that used to be an iced cream parlor. Driving
through the north side of Chicago this weekend, I saw a much classier Vietnamese
place also called "Pho".

About the only thing I'd generalize on is that I've never had good sashimi or
sushi in a "Japanese" restaurant run by Koreans. But then I only know of one,
and that's hardly a useful sample set. By contrast, the best Chinese food I've
EVER had was in a Chinese restaurant on a mountaintop in Seoul.

Oh yeah, Hardees sucks no matter where you go....


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 28-12-2003 11:00 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>
>On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
>
>>Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>
>Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
>complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
>takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
>stock).


What's the difference [if any] between pho and bun bo xao?


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 29-12-2003 03:54 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>
>On 28 Dec 2003 14:00:11 -0800, Chris Morton >
>wrote:
>
>>In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>>>
>>>On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>>>restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.
>>>
>>>Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
>>>complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
>>>takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
>>>stock).

>>
>>What's the difference [if any] between pho and bun bo xao?

>
>Pho has stock, the bun dishes don't. The beef would be whole meat,
>rather than some of the less desirable (to americans) tendon, tripe or
>[fatty] brisket often found in the pho.
>
>Note that there's a whole nuther category of vietnamese soups. Pho is
>just pone particular kind of 'soup'. Pho is really considered a dish
>rather than a soup.


Thanks.

All I know about Vietnamese food is from what I've eaten at a couple of
Vietnamese restaurants in the Cleveland area.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 29-12-2003 03:57 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>
>On 28 Dec 2003 13:59:02 -0800, Chris Morton >
>wrote:
>
>>Oh yeah, Hardees sucks no matter where you go....

>
>Their angus burgers (I think it's all they make anymore) are actually
>pretty good. Best fast food burger I've had in years. ven better
>when you have a 2 for 1 coupon.


Must be a personal taste thing.

I first ate at Hardees in Fulton, MO in '76. Worst fast food I'd EVER had.

From then on, every ten years or so, I eat at a Hardees. That assessment never
changes.

I ate at one on the Indiana turnpike recently. While it wasn't make you sick
disgusting, it was still worse than every other fastfood chain I regularly eat
at, from McDonalds to Taco Bell.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Suzanne 29-12-2003 08:08 PM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
On 12/18/03 2:47 PM, in article , "Adrav"
> wrote:

> In la.eats Steve Wertz > wrote:
>> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:

>
>>> Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>> restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.

>
>> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
>> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
>> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
>> stock).

>
>> -sw

>
> Here is one recipe I found. Perhaps Mr or Ms Tran could comment
> on its authenticity:
>
> http://www.recipesource.com/text/eth...amese/pho2.txt
>
> VIETNAMESE PHO
>
> Serving Size : 4
>
> Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
> -------- ------------ --------------------------------
> 5 lb Beef bones with marrow
> 5 lb Oxtails
> 1 lb Flank steak
> 2 lg Onions -- unpeeled, halved,
> -and studded with 8 cloves
> 3 Shallots -- unpeeled
> 2 oz Piece ginger -- unpeeled
> 8 Star anise
> 1 Cinnamon stick
> 4 md Parsnips cut in 2-inch
> -chunks
> 2 ts Salt
> 1 lb Beef sirloin
> 2 Scallions -- thinly sliced
> 1 tb Cilantro -- chopped
> 2 md Onions -- thinly sliced
> 1/4 c Hot chili sauce
> 1 lb Rice noodles 1/4-inch wide
> -(or banh pho)
> 1/2 c Nuoc mam (Vietnamese fish
> -sauce)
> Black pepper -- freshly grnd.
> 2 c Fresh bean sprouts
> 2 Fresh chili peppers -- sliced
> 2 Limes cut in wedges
> 1 bn Fresh mint
> 1 bn Fresh Asian or regular basil
>
> Soak bone overnight in cold water. Place bones,
> oxtails and flank steak in a large stock pot. Add
> water to cover and bring to a boil. Cook 10 minutes,
> drain and rinse pot and bones. Return bones to pot,
> add 6 quarts water and bring to a boil. Skim surface
> of scum and fat. Stir bones at bottom from time to
> time. Add 3 more quarts water, bring to a boil again
> and skim scum. Lower heat and let simmer. Char
> clove-studded onions, shallots, and ginger under a
> broiler until they release their fragrant odors. Tie
> charred vegetables, star anise, and cinnamon stick in
> a thick, dampened cheesecloth. Put it in stock with
> parsnips and salt. Simmer for 1 hour. Remove flank
> steak and continue simmering broth, uncovered pot, for
> 4-5 hours. Add more water if level goes below bones.
>
> Meanwhile, slice beef sirloin against grain into
> paper-thin slices, about 2-by-2 inches. Slice flank
> steak the same way. Set aside. In a small bowl,
> combine scallions, cilantro, and half the sliced
> onions. Place remaining onions in another bowl and
> mix in hot chili sauce. Soak rice noodles in warm
> water for 30 minutes. Drain and set aside.
>
> When broth is ready, discard bones. Strain broth
> through a colander lined with a double layer of damp
> cheesecloth into a clean pot. Add fish sauce and
> bring to a boil. Reduce heat to simmer. In another
> pot, bring 4 quarts of water to a boil. Add noodles
> and drain immediately. Do not overcook noodles.
> Divide among 4 large soup bowls. Top noodles with
> sliced meats. Bring broth to a rolling boil, then
> ladle into soup bowls. Garnish with scallions mixture
> and black pepper. Serve the onions in hot chili sauce
> and remaining ingredients on the side to add as
> desired. Also, you can add Hoisin sauce as a dip.
> Serves 4.
>
> Source: "The foods of Vietnam" by Nicole Routhier
> (Stewart, Tabori & Chang)
>
> From the rec.food.recipe archives.
> From: (Chuong M. Nguyen)
>
>





I love Pho noodle, but this Mad Cow scare is keeping me away from eating it.
Especially, the ingredient of bone marrow, the transmitter of the disease
(brain is the other) is definitely unsettling.

SHO


Suzanne 29-12-2003 08:32 PM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
On 12/18/03 8:23 PM, in article ,
"p96bf" > wrote:

> Pho made from white rice and taste like white rice. Ramen made from yellow
> wheet or some thing not rice.
>
> Steve Wertz wrote in message ...
>> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:47:28 +0000 (UTC), Adrav >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In la.eats Steve Wertz > wrote:
>>>> On 18 Dec 2003 09:02:36 GMT, anon > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Anyway, pho is basically ramen with higher-quality ingredients, a
>>>>> restaurant would have to be pretty bad to **** it up.
>>>
>>>> Pho is *not* ramen. Not even close. Traditional pho is much more
>>>> complicated to prepare and things can and do go wrong. A bowl of pho
>>>> takes no less than 7 hours to prepare (most of that time being the
>>>> stock).
>>>
>>>> -sw
>>>
>>> Here is one recipe I found. Perhaps Mr or Ms Tran could comment
>>> on its authenticity:
>>>
>>> http://www.recipesource.com/text/eth...amese/pho2.txt

>>
>> I do a lot of vietnamese cooking (and eating out) and yes, it's a
>> pretty authentic recipe, other than the addition or substitution of
>> some veggies/herbs that are not commonly available here in the US.
>> This is what you'll find in most US restaurants, though some places
>> are likely to take shortcuts on the stock.
>>
>> -sw

>
>

Yellow noodles are often called Egg noodles. Ramen is the Japanese version
of the Chinese egg noodle. The original Chinese does not call it RAMEN.
RAMEN sold in supermarkets in the form of instant noodle is not a real
ramen, but a synthetic ramen. One of the original noodles from Japan is
called SOBA and it is made from buckwheat and consumed with soup made from
fish broth and soy sauce. Japanese traditionally does not have rice noodle
in their rooster of noodles unlike Vietnam and other Indochinese and
Southeast Asian regions. Ramen and Pho are of different phylum. I love them
both.

SHO


Chris Morton 30-12-2003 01:48 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>
>On 29 Dec 2003 06:57:38 -0800, Chris Morton >
>wrote:
>
>
>>>Their angus burgers (I think it's all they make anymore) are actually
>>>pretty good. Best fast food burger I've had in years. ven better
>>>when you have a 2 for 1 coupon.

>>
>>Must be a personal taste thing.
>>
>>I first ate at Hardees in Fulton, MO in '76. Worst fast food I'd EVER had.
>>
>>From then on, every ten years or so, I eat at a Hardees. That assessment never
>>changes.
>>
>>I ate at one on the Indiana turnpike recently. While it wasn't make you sick
>>disgusting, it was still worse than every other fastfood chain I regularly eat
>>at, from McDonalds to Taco Bell.

>
>I'm usually not one to argue the finer points of fast food but the
>Angus burgers are pretty new (Since April or so). They also have some
>good breakfast sandwiches.


I haven't tried the Angus burger. Of course I don't think I can recall a
Hardees anywhere I go apart from the turnpike, so it'll be a while before I see
one. Most breakfast sandwiches contain large quantities of egg, a real no-no
for me... unless you'd like to see the pea soup scene from "The Exorcist"
reinacted.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Gerry 30-12-2003 02:12 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton
> wrote:

> From then on, every ten years or so, I eat at a Hardees. That
> assessment never changes.


I'll second the evaluation. I ate them in the 70's in Oklahoma. I've
eaten them every 7-8 years since, usually in Oklahoma. I'm not sure
they're the same, but they are dry little "beef-like" sandwiches that
bear no resemblance to what I would think of as a "good hamburger".

I assume if you live in one of the countless midwestern towns that have
nothing but a Wal-Mart and a Hardee's that they become confused with
hamburgers readily.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 30-12-2003 02:17 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> Note that there's a whole nuther category of vietnamese soups. Pho
> is just pone particular kind of 'soup'. Pho is really considered a
> dish rather than a soup.


I would argue with this. I think Pho is thought of as a hearty soup.
The bun I regularly have never has liquid in it. It's a bowl of
vermicelli noodles sitting on greenery of different seasonal (in
California) varities with something (bbq pork, shrimp, egg roll) on
top.

I believe there are a number of other Vietnamese soups though, (mi
etc.) a number of which I haven't tried. But Pho is so variable in it's
contents and you can throw your own ingredients in. It's pretty easy
to see how this soup covers most tastes.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 30-12-2003 02:20 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
In article >, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Dec 2003 19:08:26 GMT, Suzanne > wrote:
>
> >I love Pho noodle, but this Mad Cow scare is keeping me away from eating it.
> >Especially, the ingredient of bone marrow, the transmitter of the disease
> >(brain is the other) is definitely unsettling.

>
> This, folks, is why you should never beleive anything you read on
> Usenet.


On the other hand, mad cow disease, regardless of exactly how it is
spread, is out there in the US. Quite probably for many years now.

So we all need to go hysterical, bring down the beef industry, and the
great state of Texas, for a few years, and then we can go back to
business as usual. At a few million pounds of beef less per year.
That would undoubtedly be a good thing for myriad reasons.

I heard that you can get mad cow disease be just SEEING and infected
cow! :-)

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 30-12-2003 02:25 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
In article >, Suzanne
> wrote:

> >> I do a lot of vietnamese cooking (and eating out) and yes, it's a
> >> pretty authentic recipe, other than the addition or substitution of
> >> some veggies/herbs that are not commonly available here in the US.
> >> This is what you'll find in most US restaurants, though some places
> >> are likely to take shortcuts on the stock.

> >
> >

> Yellow noodles are often called Egg noodles. Ramen is the Japanese version
> of the Chinese egg noodle. The original Chinese does not call it RAMEN.
> RAMEN sold in supermarkets in the form of instant noodle is not a real
> ramen, but a synthetic ramen.


Instant ramen is to real ramen what "instant potatoes" are to the real
thing.

> One of the original noodles from Japan is
> called SOBA and it is made from buckwheat and consumed with soup made from
> fish broth and soy sauce.


Generally consumed not in a soup, but with a dipping sauce on the side
which is not made of fish broth.

> Japanese traditionally does not have rice noodle in their rooster of
> noodles unlike Vietnam and other Indochinese and Southeast Asian
> regions. Ramen and Pho are of different phylum. I love them both.


Curious isn't it? As rice-centric as they are, that they don't have a
rice noodle of any importance. I guess they consider rice too holy for
any general modification with the exception of my beloved sake...

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Chris Morton 30-12-2003 02:45 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Gerry says...

>I assume if you live in one of the countless midwestern towns that have
>nothing but a Wal-Mart and a Hardee's that they become confused with
>hamburgers readily.


Yes, but almost every midwestern town has a greasy spoon like "The Spot" in
Fulton, MO. They made a better burger than Hardees could ever imagine.
Gasper's truck stop on Hwy54 was a lot better than Hardees too.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 30-12-2003 02:47 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Gerry says...

>The bun I regularly have never has liquid in it. It's a bowl of
>vermicelli noodles sitting on greenery of different seasonal (in
>California) varities with something (bbq pork, shrimp, egg roll) on
>top.


The bun bo xao I have here has broth. I don't know enough about Vietnamese food
to know if that's out of the ordinary.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Michael Sierchio 30-12-2003 02:54 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
Gerry wrote:

>>Japanese traditionally does not have rice noodle in their rooster of
>>noodles unlike Vietnam and other Indochinese and Southeast Asian
>>regions. Ramen and Pho are of different phylum. I love them both.

>
> Curious isn't it? As rice-centric as they are, that they don't have a
> rice noodle of any importance. I guess they consider rice too holy for
> any general modification with the exception of my beloved sake...



udon.


p96bf 30-12-2003 05:34 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 

Suzanne wrote in message ...
>
>I love Pho noodle, but this Mad Cow scare is keeping me away from eating

it.
>Especially, the ingredient of bone marrow, the transmitter of the disease
>(brain is the other) is definitely unsettling.
>
>SHO


If you eat bloody staek you have to worry. But if you boil Pho soup 100
degree Centigrad can you still get mad cow disease? Please confirm.






Gerry 30-12-2003 05:45 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton
> wrote:

> >The bun I regularly have never has liquid in it. It's a bowl of
> >vermicelli noodles sitting on greenery of different seasonal (in
> >California) varities with something (bbq pork, shrimp, egg roll) on
> >top.

>
> The bun bo xao I have here has broth. I don't know enough about
> Vietnamese food to know if that's out of the ordinary.


I think I've seen that name on Vietnamese menus. I thought "bo" meant
beef. I'll check it out the next time; I live inches from Westminster.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 30-12-2003 05:49 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton
> wrote:

> In article >, Gerry says...
>
> >I assume if you live in one of the countless midwestern towns that have
> >nothing but a Wal-Mart and a Hardee's that they become confused with
> >hamburgers readily.

>
> Yes, but almost every midwestern town has a greasy spoon like "The Spot" in
> Fulton, MO. They made a better burger than Hardees could ever imagine.
> Gasper's truck stop on Hwy54 was a lot better than Hardees too.


They still have greasy spoons out yonder? Mmm.... truck stop chili...

But now you've moved from the worst of the chains to the top of the
food order for such fare. My point was for any place that *literally*
doesn't have any better, I guess you could learn to like it. Sort of a
"bound feet" approach to culinary beauty.

In order to have Hardee's qualify as a hamburger, cardboard and
syrofoam have to be reclassified as "foodstuffs".

Anybody that's eating at a Hardee's that could be eating off the floor
of a truck stop diner is very misguided...

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Charles Quinn 30-12-2003 05:52 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
In article >, "p96bf" > wrote:
>
>Suzanne wrote in message ...
>>
>>I love Pho noodle, but this Mad Cow scare is keeping me away from eating

>it.
>>Especially, the ingredient of bone marrow, the transmitter of the disease
>>(brain is the other) is definitely unsettling.
>>
>>SHO

>
>If you eat bloody staek you have to worry. But if you boil Pho soup 100
>degree Centigrad can you still get mad cow disease? Please confirm.
>


Prion are not killed by heat. Do a google search on prion and cooking.

--

Charles
The significant problems we face cannot be solved
at the same level of thinking we were at when we
created them. Albert Einstein


Gerry 30-12-2003 05:53 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
In article >, Michael Sierchio
> wrote:

> >>Japanese traditionally does not have rice noodle in their rooster of
> >>noodles unlike Vietnam and other Indochinese and Southeast Asian
> >>regions. Ramen and Pho are of different phylum. I love them both.

> >
> > Curious isn't it? As rice-centric as they are, that they don't have a
> > rice noodle of any importance. I guess they consider rice too holy for
> > any general modification with the exception of my beloved sake...

>
> udon.


I went a-googling once again, and all I come up with is that udon is
made of wheat flour. Where they grow the wheat, I've no idea...

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Chris Morton 30-12-2003 02:56 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Gerry says...

>Anybody that's eating at a Hardee's that could be eating off the floor
>of a truck stop diner is very misguided...


Of course when you're traveling on the Ohio and Indiana Turnpikes, your options
are limited. If you want to eat, you eat whatever's at that particular rest
stop or you keep moving.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 30-12-2003 03:05 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>
>On 29 Dec 2003 17:45:47 -0800, Chris Morton >
>wrote:
>
>>Yes, but almost every midwestern town has a greasy spoon like "The Spot" in
>>Fulton, MO. They made a better burger than Hardees could ever imagine.
>>Gasper's truck stop on Hwy54 was a lot better than Hardees too.

>
>Any decent midwestren town will have at least 6 24-hour Waffle Houses
>(3 of them right across the street from another one).


Actually, I'm not sure that there are any Waffle Houses in NE Ohio. There are
Denny's and Big Boys, although almost all of the Big Boys in the Cleveland area
closed a few years ago. Most of the Long John Silvers closed around the same
time. I always liked Captain D's better. Of course the closest Captain D is in
Finley, OH.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Chris Morton 30-12-2003 05:22 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton says...
>
>In article >, Steve Wertz says...
>>
>>On 29 Dec 2003 17:45:47 -0800, Chris Morton >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, but almost every midwestern town has a greasy spoon like "The Spot" in
>>>Fulton, MO. They made a better burger than Hardees could ever imagine.
>>>Gasper's truck stop on Hwy54 was a lot better than Hardees too.

>>
>>Any decent midwestren town will have at least 6 24-hour Waffle Houses
>>(3 of them right across the street from another one).

>
>Actually, I'm not sure that there are any Waffle Houses in NE Ohio. There are
>Denny's and Big Boys, although almost all of the Big Boys in the Cleveland area
>closed a few years ago. Most of the Long John Silvers closed around the same
>time. I always liked Captain D's better. Of course the closest Captain D is in
>Finley, OH.


It slipped my mind, but IHOP has now made it to NE Ohio. There's one on Detroit
Rd. in Lakewood. Decent food, certainly better than Denny's. Years ago, there
used to be an IHOP on Western Ave. in Chicago, between 95th and 87th. It's some
local fish shack now. Fish shacks seem to be a fad in Chicago now. You seem to
see one on every corner on the south side. When I was a kid it was rib joints.

Best restaurant pancakes I've ever had were at "Mammy's" in downtown Chicago,
near the Greyhound station. Don't know if they're still there or not.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


tnguyen 31-12-2003 03:24 AM

Imitation Food
 
Gerry > wrote in message > ...
> In article >, Chris Morton
> > wrote:
>
> > >The bun I regularly have never has liquid in it. It's a bowl of
> > >vermicelli noodles sitting on greenery of different seasonal (in
> > >California) varities with something (bbq pork, shrimp, egg roll) on
> > >top.

> >
> > The bun bo xao I have here has broth. I don't know enough about
> > Vietnamese food to know if that's out of the ordinary.

>
> I think I've seen that name on Vietnamese menus. I thought "bo" meant
> beef. I'll check it out the next time; I live inches from Westminster.


Pho is the name of the dish. The noodle that is exclusively used for
Pho is therefore the Pho-Noodle, or Bánh-Pho in vietnamese.
With Bún and Mì it is different. These are no dishes, just noodle
names like Maccaroni and Tagliatelle with Bún meaning rice noodle and
Mì meaning Wheat/Egg noodle. The dishes made of them are then called
e.g. Bun-Bi (rice noodles with pork and no broth), Bun-Rieu (Rice
noodle tomato soup with Rieu, i.e. micro shrimps).
Or Bun-Bo-Xao which I don't know. I guess it is a noodle soup with Bò
(beef) that is maybe xao (=roasted?).

Gerry 31-12-2003 05:49 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton
> wrote:

> In article >, Gerry
> says...
>
> >Anybody that's eating at a Hardee's that could be eating off the
> >floor of a truck stop diner is very misguided...

>
> Of course when you're traveling on the Ohio and Indiana Turnpikes,
> your options are limited. If you want to eat, you eat whatever's at
> that particular rest stop or you keep moving.


Gotta tell this story. A million years ago I'm on a road trip with a 6
piece band and we're coming through Waco at 3am on a Sunday morning.
Almost no diner's is in the truckstop, a relatively large restaurant.

We check out one of these big ol' honker menus with lots of hearty fare
on it. When the waitress comes I ask, "How's the chili?"
"You don't want the chili", she deadpans.
"I don't?"
"Nope."
"Do I want the omelette?"
"You don't want that either."
"What do we want," another guys asks.
"You want hamburgers" she says.
"We do?"

As if on queue we hear a loud crash from the kitchen. We all turn to
the open fetch-it area and see a guy go racing around in the kitchen
like his pants are on fire.

"You want hamburgers and you wanna be glad he can make those." she says.

They were edible, which under the circumstances was probably a
life-saver.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Gerry 31-12-2003 05:54 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

> >> Note that there's a whole nuther category of vietnamese soups. Pho
> >> is just pone particular kind of 'soup'. Pho is really considered a
> >> dish rather than a soup.

> >
> >I would argue with this. I think Pho is thought of as a hearty soup.

>
> I have a lot of vietnamese co-workers and they say pho isn't really
> consdered a soup. That certainly coincides with my interpretation of
> the menus I've seen as well. Soups and Pho are listed separately.
> The broth is meant to add liquid to the dish, but it's often left
> behind, or drank separately from the rest of the dish.
>
> The inclusion of the obligatory table salad that accompanies the pho,
> just as it does the other non-soup entrees, may also give some
> credibility to that theory. IME, the actual soups are usually
> thicker, heartier, and more stew-like.
>
> But it's not worth arguing about :-)


We already ARE arguing about it. My take is this: I've seen it and
eaten it on a regular basis for 6 years. I don't know anything about a
Pho that doesn't have soup; in it or possibly on the side. Maybe the
entire menu is composed predominantly of these, and they're the stuff I
never pick, and nobody around me does either.

Like your Vietnamese co-workers I base my viewpoint totally on personal
experience. The Vietnamese in Little Saigon--maybe they do relatively
inauthentic grub. Maybe it's all Californicated. But I guess it's like
that old argument about how they don't REALLY have pizza in Italy and
it's only a ******* Unitedstatesian Frankenstein of Italian food.

Still tastes great though...

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins

Chris Morton 31-12-2003 07:43 AM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Gerry says...

>Gotta tell this story. A million years ago I'm on a road trip with a 6
>piece band and we're coming through Waco at 3am on a Sunday morning.
>Almost no diner's is in the truckstop, a relatively large restaurant.


A few years ago, a friend was running for judge here. I went to party
headquarters downtown with him, and helped him set up some computers and
highspeed printers to print out some campaign literature. It was probably 3am
before we got done. We left in search of someplace to eat, winding up at the
Denney's on 150th(?) St. near the airport. I swear I haven't seen that many
hookers since I left Korea. It was like open casting call for a really low
budget porn movie. Fortunately, that Denney's isn't too bad.

The one on Bagley Rd. in Middleburg Heights is pretty bad. I once went there
around midnight after a Japanese class at Cuyahoga Community College. I ordered
chili. What I got was a bowl of beans and ground beef... and that was it. No
sauce or liquid of any kind.

Of course the WORST Denney's in the US is in Fremont, OH. You can wait an hour
for a burger at 4am with nobody else ordering. Of course the food's wretched no
matter how long it takes to prepare. It's quite possibly the worst Denney's in
the world, but I can't honestly say, since I've never eaten in a Denney's in
Japan.


--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.


Shatto 31-12-2003 10:34 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
I understand that Mad Cow Disease is not killed by heat. That's one of the
reason why it is so serious.


"Charles Quinn" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
> In article >, "p96bf"

> wrote:
> >
> >Suzanne wrote in message ...
> >>
> >>I love Pho noodle, but this Mad Cow scare is keeping me away from eating

> >it.
> >>Especially, the ingredient of bone marrow, the transmitter of the

disease
> >>(brain is the other) is definitely unsettling.
> >>
> >>SHO

> >
> >If you eat bloody staek you have to worry. But if you boil Pho soup 100
> >degree Centigrad can you still get mad cow disease? Please confirm.
> >

>
> Prion are not killed by heat. Do a google search on prion and cooking.
>
> --
>
> Charles
> The significant problems we face cannot be solved
> at the same level of thinking we were at when we
> created them. Albert Einstein
>




Shatto 31-12-2003 10:41 AM

Pho (was Imitation Food)
 
All soba broth are made from fish broth whether you like or not. I think the
Japanese feel that rice tastes best as is. Although, MOCHI and rice crackers
are other byproducts of rice in their diet. UDON is made out of wheat.



"Gerry" > wrote in message
.. .
> In article >, Suzanne
> > wrote:
>
> > >> I do a lot of vietnamese cooking (and eating out) and yes, it's a
> > >> pretty authentic recipe, other than the addition or substitution of
> > >> some veggies/herbs that are not commonly available here in the US.
> > >> This is what you'll find in most US restaurants, though some places
> > >> are likely to take shortcuts on the stock.
> > >
> > >

> > Yellow noodles are often called Egg noodles. Ramen is the Japanese

version
> > of the Chinese egg noodle. The original Chinese does not call it RAMEN.
> > RAMEN sold in supermarkets in the form of instant noodle is not a real
> > ramen, but a synthetic ramen.

>
> Instant ramen is to real ramen what "instant potatoes" are to the real
> thing.
>
> > One of the original noodles from Japan is
> > called SOBA and it is made from buckwheat and consumed with soup made

from
> > fish broth and soy sauce.

>
> Generally consumed not in a soup, but with a dipping sauce on the side
> which is not made of fish broth.
>
> > Japanese traditionally does not have rice noodle in their rooster of
> > noodles unlike Vietnam and other Indochinese and Southeast Asian
> > regions. Ramen and Pho are of different phylum. I love them both.

>
> Curious isn't it? As rice-centric as they are, that they don't have a
> rice noodle of any importance. I guess they consider rice too holy for
> any general modification with the exception of my beloved sake...
>
> --
> First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they

only
> care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
> -- Gail Collins




Gerry 31-12-2003 07:41 PM

Imitation Food
 
In article >, Chris Morton
> wrote:

> The one on Bagley Rd. in Middleburg Heights is pretty bad. I once
> went there around midnight after a Japanese class at Cuyahoga
> Community College. I ordered chili. What I got was a bowl of beans
> and ground beef... and that was it. No sauce or liquid of any kind.


An intrepid explorer--the guy who buys chili someplace he's never been.
I did that a few times and then realized I wanted to see my 30th year
of life.

> Of course the WORST Denney's in the US is in Fremont, OH. You can
> wait an hour for a burger at 4am with nobody else ordering. Of
> course the food's wretched no matter how long it takes to prepare.
> It's quite possibly the worst Denney's in the world, but I can't
> honestly say, since I've never eaten in a Denney's in Japan.


It seems I recall actually seeing a Denny's in Ueno in Tokyo. Can't
say I tried it. But I have tried a number of what could be thought of
as chain breakfast places. Surprisingly we didn't dash in to see what
they had. Now as I think of it, it probably would have been funny.

--
First they gerrymander us into one-party fiefs. Then they tell us they only
care about the swing districts. Then they complain about voter apathy.
-- Gail Collins


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