There was a Greek guy I used to work with. His mom used to make up
mason jars for gifts. She would fill each one about half way up with
peeled cloves of Garlic, and then fill the jar the rest of the way with
extra-virgin olive oil. She said you can use this oil when you make
pasta, eggs, garlic bread, vegetables, or just about anything else.
She said to let it set for a couple of days before using it. She was
right. It was good on just about whatever you put it on !

HOWEVER !
I have since learned that doing this carries a slight (but with
extremely serious consequences) of giving one botulism poisoning.
Bottom line is that the FDA says not to do this in very strong language
(I checked out their site to verify this and it's true).

SO!
Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil. The FDA
talked about ascorbic acid. Has anyone used this?
I've heard of using Vitamin E in soapmaking to preserve the ingredients
in the soap but I don't know if you would have to use a toxic amount to
preserve a bottle of oil. Any ideas? Has anyone researched this?
I'm thinking the problem is that garlic cloves are close to the soil or
actually in the soil which hosts botulism bacterium. Would you
therefore be safe if you peeled and boiled the cloves then put them in
the oil.
Thanks for any help.

Mike
bestpastarecipes.com

Always Learning wrote:

> There was a Greek guy I used to work with. His mom used to make up
> mason jars for gifts. She would fill each one about half way up with
> peeled cloves of Garlic, and then fill the jar the rest of the way
> with extra-virgin olive oil. ...HOWEVER ! I have since learned that
> doing this carries a slight (but with extremely serious consequences)
> of giving one botulism poisoning.

A couple days, up to a week is OK it would seem...
http://www.colostate.edu/Orgs/safefo...R/v2n4s08.html
>
> SO! Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so
> that I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil.
> The FDA talked about ascorbic acid.

The site above has some suggestions, but it's also *not* for long-term
storage.

You might want to ask these folks for confirmation or suggestions:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

B/

Hi Mike Welcome)

You have certantly come to the right place


> SO!
> Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
> I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil. The FDA
> talked about ascorbic acid. Has anyone used this?
> I've heard of using Vitamin E in soapmaking to preserve the ingredients
> in the soap but I don't know if you would have to use a toxic amount to
> preserve a bottle of oil. Any ideas? Has anyone researched this?
> I'm thinking the problem is that garlic cloves are close to the soil or
> actually in the soil which hosts botulism bacterium. Would you
> therefore be safe if you peeled and boiled the cloves then put them in
> the oil.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Mike
> bestpastarecipes.com
>

************************************************** *********
Ophelia wrote:
Hi Mike Welcome)

You have certantly come to the right place
************************************************** **********
Hi Ophelia
Thanks for the nice welcome. I came across this group and thought
someone over here might know. One of the links above suggested using
vinegar or lemon juice as an acidifyer but I'm not sure if the oil and
the acidifyer would separate leaving the garlic still in a low acid
olive oil. ???

In article .com>,
"Always Learning" > wrote:

> I've heard of using Vitamin E in soapmaking to preserve the ingredients
> in the soap but I don't know if you would have to use a toxic amount to
> preserve a bottle of oil.
> Mike
> bestpastarecipes.com

Vitamin E isn't ascorbic acid, Mike. :-) That'd be vitamin C.
HTH.
--
-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
Estate
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

In article .com>,
"Always Learning" > wrote:

> ************************************************** *********
> Ophelia wrote:
> Hi Mike Welcome)
>
> You have certantly come to the right place
> ************************************************** **********
> Hi Ophelia
> Thanks for the nice welcome. I came across this group and thought
> someone over here might know. One of the links above suggested using
> vinegar or lemon juice as an acidifyer but I'm not sure if the oil and
> the acidifyer would separate leaving the garlic still in a low acid
> olive oil. ???


I don't know about using a combination of the two, but I'm thinking that
if you did (and I wouldn't without knowing lots more), the oil would
float and the garlic would be sitting in the vinegar -- unless you're
not using much vinegar. Like I said. . .
--
-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
Estate
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

"Always Learning" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> ************************************************** *********
> Ophelia wrote:
> Hi Mike Welcome)
>
> You have certantly come to the right place
> ************************************************** **********
> Hi Ophelia
> Thanks for the nice welcome. I came across this group and thought
> someone over here might know. One of the links above suggested using
> vinegar or lemon juice as an acidifyer but I'm not sure if the oil and
> the acidifyer would separate leaving the garlic still in a low acid
> olive oil. ???

Well, I told you that garlic in oil can lead to botulism. I still believe
it is dangerous even if you mix the oil and vineger. The ones you can buy
in the shops are processed to be safe. So far as I am aware one cannot
replicate that in a kitchen. I will be happy to be proved wrong by anyone
who is brave enough to try it

O

**********************
Melba's Jammin' wrote:
Vitamin E isn't ascorbic acid, Mike. :-) That'd be vitamin C.
**********************
That's correct. But vitamin E is also used as a preservative but so far
I've only seen it used in soap, massage oils, etc. so I don't know if
the amount you would have to use in something you eat would be toxic.
I believe vitamin E is stored in the fat part of our bodies so toxicidy
is more of a concern than vitamin C which is stored in water and can be
voided when you, well, ah, . . . VOID !

Mike
bestpastarecipes.com

PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
Barbara - apologies.

Always Learning wrote:

> PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
> Barbara - apologies.

She's a peach, either way.

B/

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Always Learning wrote:
>
>> PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
>> Barbara - apologies.
>
> She's a peach, either way.

She most certainly is)))

Brian Mailman wrote:
> Always Learning wrote:
>
>> PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
>> Barbara - apologies.
>
> She's a peach, either way.
>
> B/
>


There's a joke here somewhere involving the word "raspberry", but I
can't come up with anything that doesn't sound mean.

Best regards, ;-)
Bob

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On 20 Jul 2006 02:18:52 -0700, Always Learning wrote:
>
>> SO!
>> Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
>> I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil.
>
> "Natural"? How about using some Instacure #1 (Prague powder) to
> brine the garlic first. The nitr[ia]tes prevent botulism in
> meat, so I don't know why it wouldn't work for veggies, too.
>
> -sw


If I really wanted to do this, I would acidify (pickle) the garlic first
with something like phosphoric acid or a strong solution of lactic acid
(88% is available at homebrew supply shops, I'm not sure how much I'd
dilute it.)

You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
olive oil.

Best regards,
Bob

"Always Learning" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> There was a Greek guy I used to work with. His mom used to make up
> mason jars for gifts. She would fill each one about half way up with
> peeled cloves of Garlic, and then fill the jar the rest of the way with
> extra-virgin olive oil. She said you can use this oil when you make
> pasta, eggs, garlic bread, vegetables, or just about anything else.
> She said to let it set for a couple of days before using it. She was
> right. It was good on just about whatever you put it on !
>
> HOWEVER !
> I have since learned that doing this carries a slight (but with
> extremely serious consequences) of giving one botulism poisoning.
> Bottom line is that the FDA says not to do this in very strong language
> (I checked out their site to verify this and it's true).
>
> SO!
> Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
> I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil. The FDA
> talked about ascorbic acid. Has anyone used this?
> I've heard of using Vitamin E in soapmaking to preserve the ingredients
> in the soap but I don't know if you would have to use a toxic amount to
> preserve a bottle of oil. Any ideas? Has anyone researched this?
> I'm thinking the problem is that garlic cloves are close to the soil or
> actually in the soil which hosts botulism bacterium. Would you
> therefore be safe if you peeled and boiled the cloves then put them in
> the oil.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Mike
> bestpastarecipes.com

Wow! I chop my garlic up, mix it into olive oil, and heat it up in the
microwave. What is the risk if you do this? The Clostridium botulinum is
killed by heating above 80F. Does it reappear after? I would guess so, as in
the dented can worry, though that is difficult to understand. When you heat
the garlic in the oil, the bitter taste of older garlic[=almost all
supermarkt garlic] goes away. I do this routinely. If you immediately
strained would that remove the risk? If you heat the garlic to simmering the
oil has a much nicer flavor than if you simply let the garlic sit in the
oil.
I've been googling about this with no findings. Does anyone have insight?
Kent, a certified "garlic nut"

zxcvbob wrote:

> You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
> canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
> olive oil.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
It's well detailed here.

http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf

BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
it, rare though it is.

--
Reg

"Always Learning" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> There was a Greek guy I used to work with. His mom used to make up
> mason jars for gifts. She would fill each one about half way up with
> peeled cloves of Garlic, and then fill the jar the rest of the way with
> extra-virgin olive oil. She said you can use this oil when you make
> pasta, eggs, garlic bread, vegetables, or just about anything else.
> She said to let it set for a couple of days before using it. She was
> right. It was good on just about whatever you put it on !
>
> HOWEVER !
> I have since learned that doing this carries a slight (but with
> extremely serious consequences) of giving one botulism poisoning.
> Bottom line is that the FDA says not to do this in very strong language
> (I checked out their site to verify this and it's true).
>
> SO!
> Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
> I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil. The FDA
> talked about ascorbic acid. Has anyone used this?
> I've heard of using Vitamin E in soapmaking to preserve the ingredients
> in the soap but I don't know if you would have to use a toxic amount to
> preserve a bottle of oil. Any ideas? Has anyone researched this?
> I'm thinking the problem is that garlic cloves are close to the soil or
> actually in the soil which hosts botulism bacterium. Would you
> therefore be safe if you peeled and boiled the cloves then put them in
> the oil.
> Thanks for any help.
>
> Mike
> bestpastarecipes.com
>
All reported cases, at least on Medline, are with commercial garlic/oil
preparations. There are three individual cases, and one epidemic of 36 in
Vancover, B.C., all from commercial products.
Most, if not all, of us are using fresh whole or chopped garlic and saving
it in oil. You should refrigerate, and probably eat within a certain
time,and again, I cook mine in the microwave.
BTW, I am sure most, if not, all know this, but when cooking in oil in the
microwave, cook at a power level of 3, at most 4, to prevent oil from going
all over the place.

Kent

"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
>> canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV olive
>> oil.
>
> Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
>
> This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
> by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
> You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
> to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
> It's well detailed here.
>
> http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf

That was a most interesting link Reg, but I have questions about Canola oil.
I haven't seen that and I use a very good olive oil for dressings. What is
the difference please?

O

Ophelia wrote:
> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>>> You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
>>> canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV olive
>>> oil.
>> Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
>>
>> This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
>> by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
>> You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
>> to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
>> It's well detailed here.
>>
>> http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf
>
> That was a most interesting link Reg, but I have questions about Canola oil.
> I haven't seen that and I use a very good olive oil for dressings. What is
> the difference please?



Cooking the very good olive oil will ruin the flavor. Canola is a
neutral-tasting oil that doesn't oxidize as quickly as, say, "vegetable
oil" (soybean oil.) I recommended making an overly-strong infusion and
using it to flavor your good olive oil. I hadn't seen the canola link.

I would use peanut oil, but the word "peanut" scares some people so I
also said canola. :-)

Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>> Cooking the very good olive oil will ruin the flavor. Canola is a
> neutral-tasting oil that doesn't oxidize as quickly as, say, "vegetable
> oil" (soybean oil.) I recommended making an overly-strong infusion and
> using it to flavor your good olive oil. I hadn't seen the canola link.

Thanks Bob I don't cook with 'very good' olive oil, I use it for mixing
with my herb vinegars for dressings. I do however use milder oliver oil
for
cooking.


>
> I would use peanut oil, but the word "peanut" scares some people so I also
> said canola. :-)

I don't know what canola is)

"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
> > You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
> > canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
> > olive oil.
>
> Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
>
> This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
> by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
> You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
> to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
> It's well detailed here.
>
> http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf
>
> BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
> makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
> that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
> spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
> growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
> infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
> it, rare though it is.
>
> --
> Reg
>

Ok, so with all this in mind..........I like to make an herb butter, which
is just a variety of fresh herbs chopped fine, and mixed with butter, that I
serve with fresh baguette or on corn on the cob. I mix in very small
quantities but sometimes I have leftover....how would I store it and for how
long ? In the fridge I would guess, but for how long?

Just curious, because I've been tossing it after a couple of days,
Kathi

Ophelia wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Cooking the very good olive oil will ruin the flavor. Canola is a
>> neutral-tasting oil that doesn't oxidize as quickly as, say, "vegetable
>> oil" (soybean oil.) I recommended making an overly-strong infusion and
>> using it to flavor your good olive oil. I hadn't seen the canola link.
>
> Thanks Bob I don't cook with 'very good' olive oil, I use it for mixing
> with my herb vinegars for dressings. I do however use milder oliver oil
> for
> cooking.
>
>
>> I would use peanut oil, but the word "peanut" scares some people so I also
>> said canola. :-)
>
> I don't know what canola is)


This is from memory, so don't shoot me if you look it up and find I got
something wrong:

Canola is low eruric (sp?) acid rapeseed oil. It's grown from a species
of mustard that is *very* closely related to broccoli rabe, Low eruric
rapeseed oil was developed in Canada and it's a cash crop there. The
marketing folks didn't like the sound of "rapeseed oil", so they coined
the term (and trademarked it, I think) "canola oil". It's derived from
the word Canada.

IIRC, high levels of eruric acid makes rapeseed oil inedible but also a
better industrial lubricant.

Best regards,
Bob

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>>> You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
>>> canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
>>> olive oil.
>> Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
>>
>> This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
>> by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
>> You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
>> to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
>> It's well detailed here.
>>
>> http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf
>>
>> BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
>> makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
>> that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
>> spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
>> growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
>> infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
>> it, rare though it is.
>>
>> --
>> Reg
>>
>
> Ok, so with all this in mind..........I like to make an herb butter, which
> is just a variety of fresh herbs chopped fine, and mixed with butter, that I
> serve with fresh baguette or on corn on the cob. I mix in very small
> quantities but sometimes I have leftover....how would I store it and for how
> long ? In the fridge I would guess, but for how long?
>
> Just curious, because I've been tossing it after a couple of days,
> Kathi
>
>


Put in on the top shelf of the fridge, way in the back (but don't forget
about it.) That should be the coldest place. Toss it after a few days.
Maybe a week.

Bob

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:23:50 GMT, Reg wrote:
>
>> BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
>> makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
>> that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
>> spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
>> growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
>> infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
>> it, rare though it is.
>
> Wouldn't a weak Instacure brine work? It would add negligible
> (beneficial?) salt, but not sure how the cure might react with
> the garlic (or other plants).
>
> -sw


I think it probably would work, but I haven't tested it. I don't know
that anyone has tested it. Sodium nitrite might not be approved for use
as a food additive for anything but meats (doesn't mean you couldn't use
it at home). Sounds like a good topic for a research paper. ;-)

Bob

In article >,
Brian Mailman > wrote:

> Always Learning wrote:
>
> > PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
> > Barbara - apologies.
>
> She's a peach, either way.
>
> B/


Aw, shucks, Brian. <Barb blushes>
Wanna see my tattoos? "-)
(They're on my website, I think.)
--
-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
Estate
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

In article om>,
"Always Learning" > wrote:

> **********************
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> Vitamin E isn't ascorbic acid, Mike. :-) That'd be vitamin C.
> **********************
> That's correct. But vitamin E is also used as a preservative but so far
> I've only seen it used in soap, massage oils, etc. so I don't know if
> the amount you would have to use in something you eat would be toxic.
> I believe vitamin E is stored in the fat part of our bodies so toxicidy
> is more of a concern than vitamin C which is stored in water and can be
> voided when you, well, ah, . . . VOID !
>
> Mike
> bestpastarecipes.com
>
> PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
> Barbara - apologies.


No apology necessary. Just don't call me late for supper.
(You should have heard what my brother used to call me! The noive!)
--
-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
Estate
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

zxcvbob wrote:

> Brian Mailman wrote:
>> Always Learning wrote:
>>
>>> PS. In an earlier post I called you Melba and I see your name is
>>> Barbara - apologies.
>>
>> She's a peach, either way.

> There's a joke here somewhere involving the word "raspberry", but I
> can't come up with anything that doesn't sound mean.

You can try something with "fizz" since the Melba Fizz was invented here
in SF. I understand NZ and Oz vie for the claim about Peach Melba.

B/

Kent wrote:

> Wow! I chop my garlic up, mix it into olive oil, and heat it up in the
> microwave. What is the risk if you do this? The Clostridium botulinum is
> killed by heating above 80F. Does it reappear after?

I don't know what temps the bacteria is killed (80/24 seems rather low),
but the toxin the bacteria produces is heat-stable to 240/106. So you
want to simmer your oil mix on the stove, not microwave where you can
monitor the temperature better.

B/

zxcvbob wrote:

> .... The marketing folks didn't like the sound of "rapeseed oil",

Chinese gooseberries became kiwifruit (shudder)
Rapini became "broccoli rabe"
Plum tomatoes became "romas"
I don't remember what it was for blood oranges, but it didn't take.

> so
> they coined the term (and trademarked it, I think) "canola oil".
> It's derived from the word Canada.

I thought it was CANadian OiL Association.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
> Chinese gooseberries became kiwifruit (shudder)

Also "Jerusalem goosberries".

(No idea where it came from, I've never seen them here except in markets.)

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

zxcvbob wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> Cooking the very good olive oil will ruin the flavor. Canola is a
>>> neutral-tasting oil that doesn't oxidize as quickly as, say,
>>> "vegetable oil" (soybean oil.) I recommended making an
>>> overly-strong infusion and using it to flavor your good olive oil. I
>>> hadn't seen the canola link.
>>
>> Thanks Bob I don't cook with 'very good' olive oil, I use it for
>> mixing with my herb vinegars for dressings. I do however use
>> milder oliver oil for
>> cooking.
>>
>>
>>> I would use peanut oil, but the word "peanut" scares some people so
>>> I also said canola. :-)
>>
>> I don't know what canola is)
>
>
> This is from memory, so don't shoot me if you look it up and find I
> got something wrong:
>
> Canola is low eruric (sp?) acid rapeseed oil. It's grown from a
> species of mustard that is *very* closely related to broccoli rabe, Low
> eruric rapeseed oil was developed in Canada and it's a cash crop
> there. The marketing folks didn't like the sound of "rapeseed oil",
> so they coined the term (and trademarked it, I think) "canola oil". It's
> derived from the word Canada.
>
> IIRC, high levels of eruric acid makes rapeseed oil inedible but also
> a better industrial lubricant.

Many thanks Bob

Hi all,
I'm new to the group & just picked up on the garlic oil thread. If
I'm making any flavoured olive oil that I want to keep for a while I
dehydrate/dry anything I'm putting in the oil & it seems to keep a
lot longer. I don't know, but as there's no water involved could
this stop or slow botulism spores from reproducing.
Hope this helps

***************************
Reg wrote:
BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that makes them
susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion that includes
fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism spores on the substrate
surface and therefore host botulism growth.
***************************
Reg
I've been looking on the CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL website.

-------------------
QUOTE FROM THE CDC:
What kind of germ is Clostridium botulinum?
Clostridium botulinum is the name of a group of bacteria commonly found
in soil. These rod-shaped organisms grow best in low oxygen conditions.
The bacteria form spores which allow them to survive in a dormant state
until exposed to conditions that can support their growth."
CDC
--------------------

So any thing that is growing in direct contact with the soil (like a
garlic bulb) would in theory be more susceptible than for example
cutting leaves off the top of a basil or rosemary plant. However! Look
what they follow it up with.


-----------------------------------------
QUOTE FROM THE CDC:
How can botulism be prevented?

Botulism can be prevented. Foodborne botulism has often been from
home-canned foods with low acid content, such as asparagus, green
beans, beets and corn. However, outbreaks of botulism from more unusual
sources such as chopped garlic in oil, chile peppers, tomatoes,
improperly handled baked potatoes wrapped in aluminum foil, and
home-canned or fermented fish. Persons who do home canning should
follow strict hygienic procedures to reduce contamination of foods.
Oils infused with garlic or herbs should be refrigerated. Potatoes
which have been baked while wrapped in aluminum foil should be kept hot
until served or refrigerated. Because the botulism toxin is destroyed
by high temperatures, persons who eat home-canned foods should consider
boiling the food for 10 minutes before eating it to ensure safety.
Instructions on safe home canning can be obtained from county extension
services or from the US Department of Agriculture. Because honey can
contain spores of Clostridium botulinum and this has been a source of
infection for infants, children less than 12 months old should not be
fed honey. Honey is safe for persons 1 year of age and older. Wound
botulism can be prevented by promptly seeking medical care for infected
wounds and by not using injectable street drugs.
-----------------------------------------


Reg, it appears you are right on the money in your assertion that there
is no difference. Corn is as far as can be from the soil but they've
apparently still had problems with it.

Someone else mentioned dented cans. The concern with a dented can is if
the seal is broken, any number of airborn bacteria might invade the can
and start growing.

Mike
bestpastarecipes.com

***************
All reported cases, at least on Medline, are with commercial garlic/oil

preparations. There are three individual cases, and one epidemic of 36
in
Vancover, B.C., all from commercial products.
***************

The CDC seems to disagree with Medline. I don't know if they view the
stats differently or what but they seem to think it is the home
canners. Not sure why there's a difference.
------------------------------------------
FROM CDC WEBSITE
How common is botulism?

In the United States an average of 110 cases of botulism are reported
each year. Of these, approximately 25% are foodborne, 72% are infant
botulism, and the rest are wound botulism. Outbreaks of foodborne
botulism involving two or more persons occur most years and usually
caused by eating contaminated home-canned foods. The number of cases of
foodborne and infant botulism has changed little . . .
--------------------------------------------


Aside from this I'm wondering if anyone has prepared the garlic with a
pressure cooker(with it's higher temperatures) to resolve the heat
resilency of the botulism issue. Is there a credible source that
recommends this.
Mike
bestpastarecipes.com

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> Wow! I chop my garlic up, mix it into olive oil, and heat it up in the
> microwave. What is the risk if you do this? The Clostridium botulinum is
> killed by heating above 80F.

Where'd you get 80° F, Kent?

From the NCHFP site's General Canning Information:
" Botulinum spores are very hard to destroy at boiling-water
temperatures; the higher the canner temperature, the more easily they
are destroyed. Therefore, all low-acid foods should be sterilized at
temperatures of 240 to 250F, attainable with pressure canners operated
at 10 to 15 PSIG. PSIG means pounds per square inch of pressure as
measured by gauge. The more familiar "PSI" designation is used hereafter
in this publication (the Complete Guide to Home Canning). At
temperatures of 240 to 250F, the time needed to destroy bacteria in
low-acid canned food ranges from 20 to 100 minutes."


-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
Estate
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> Wow! I chop my garlic up, mix it into olive oil, and heat it up in the
>> microwave. What is the risk if you do this? The Clostridium botulinum is
>> killed by heating above 80F.
>
> Where'd you get 80° F, Kent?

By my not reading the reference immediately below carefully. First, it's not
80F, but 80C, or 176F for 30 min., or 212F for 10 min. Further, as you point
out that doesn't apply to the spore, which is much more heat tolerant. It
applies
only to the toxin in a canned food product.

Critical Care Clinics
Volume 21 . Number 4 . October 2005

"Botulinum Toxin" by B. Zane Horowitz, MD, FACMT

Heating above 121C, or refrigeration below 4C inhibits clostridial growth.
To prevent spore formation, the addition of acidifying agents (eg, citric
acid) is recommended for canning most vegetables. Preserving vegetables
under garlic oil without canning has been identified as a particular risk
factor for food-borne disease [11]. However, spores are dormant and may
survive inadequate canning and vacuum procedures. The spores can withstand
heating to 100C for hours [35], but heating to 121?C under 15 to 20 lb/in2
pressure for 20 minutes destroys them [5]. Interestingly, type E toxin may
be resistant to freezing and may elaborate toxin during thawing of preserved
marine animals above 5C [42]. Additionally, since type E is not
saccharolytic, foods contaminated with this serotype do not look or smell
abnormal [42]. Once canned food is open for consumption, the botulinum toxin
is destroyed by heating to 80C for 30 minutes, or to 100C for 10 minutes
[35].

Kent

>
> From the NCHFP site's General Canning Information:
> " Botulinum spores are very hard to destroy at boiling-water
> temperatures; the higher the canner temperature, the more easily they
> are destroyed. Therefore, all low-acid foods should be sterilized at
> temperatures of 240 to 250F, attainable with pressure canners operated
> at 10 to 15 PSIG. PSIG means pounds per square inch of pressure as
> measured by gauge. The more familiar "PSI" designation is used hereafter
> in this publication (the Complete Guide to Home Canning). At
> temperatures of 240 to 250F, the time needed to destroy bacteria in
> low-acid canned food ranges from 20 to 100 minutes."
>
>
> -Barb
> <http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 7-19-2006, Visit to our Country
> Estate
> "If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

In article . com>,
I was at a Food Safety & sanitation Conference last THursday. I asked
the "expert" from the Illinois Department of Public Health his opinion.
He said if you can prove some "food Science" behind your manufacturing
of Garlic in oil ... such as acidfying (phosphoric acid et al) or you
obtained your materials from an approved source - you used the minced
garlic from the store (acidulated etc.) as the base for your garlic oil
they were going to get a "might" upset. THey were not so conceerned with
other oils - I asked about things like Rosemary or other herbs (probably
more chance for botulism contamination).

just my ).02 - when I get more info I will let you know

You can prepare the whole thing and then pressure can it. Less invasive to
the flavours than most of the suggestions so far.


"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Wertz wrote:
>> On 20 Jul 2006 02:18:52 -0700, Always Learning wrote:
>>
>>> SO!
>>> Does anyone know of a natural preservative and how much to use so that
>>> I can have readily available good tasting garlicy olive oil.
>>
>> "Natural"? How about using some Instacure #1 (Prague powder) to
>> brine the garlic first. The nitr[ia]tes prevent botulism in
>> meat, so I don't know why it wouldn't work for veggies, too.
>>
>> -sw
>
>
> If I really wanted to do this, I would acidify (pickle) the garlic first
> with something like phosphoric acid or a strong solution of lactic acid
> (88% is available at homebrew supply shops, I'm not sure how much I'd
> dilute it.)
>
> You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
> canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV olive
> oil.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob

Graham and Beth Harden wrote:

> You can prepare the whole thing and then pressure can it. Less invasive to
> the flavours than most of the suggestions so far.

Yes, but aren't there easier ways of making garlic paste?

B/

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
> > zxcvbob wrote:
> >
> > > You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut or
> > > canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
> > > olive oil.
> >
> > Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
> >
> > This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
> > by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
> > You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
> > to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
> > It's well detailed here.
> >
> > http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf
> >
> > BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
> > makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
> > that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
> > spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
> > growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
> > infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
> > it, rare though it is.
> >
> > --
> > Reg
> >
>
> Ok, so with all this in mind..........I like to make an herb butter, which
> is just a variety of fresh herbs chopped fine, and mixed with butter, that I
> serve with fresh baguette or on corn on the cob. I mix in very small
> quantities but sometimes I have leftover....how would I store it and for how
> long ? In the fridge I would guess, but for how long?
>
> Just curious, because I've been tossing it after a couple of days,
> Kathi
Hi- when I worked in a resturant as a prep cook, that was one of the
items we made- we would use like 5# of butter at a time. We would roll
it into logs, and then freeze it. They would slice off as much as
needed. If it's wrapped well, it should last a couple of months

"Merry" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Kathi Jones wrote:
> > "Reg" > wrote in message
> > . com...
> > > zxcvbob wrote:
> > >
> > > > You could also crush the garlic and simmer slowly it in hot peanut
or
> > > > canola oil. Strain out the garlic, add the garlicky oil to your EV
> > > > olive oil.
> > >
> > > Ding ding ding. We have a winner.
> > >
> > > This is a relatively recent procedure that has been suggested
> > > by the oil producers to address the "garlic in oil" issue.
> > > You do what is effectively a bot cook on the infusion in order
> > > to destroy any spores while simultaneously infusing the oil.
> > > It's well detailed here.
> > >
> > > http://www.canolainfo.org/pdf/flavouredoilsbrochure.pdf
> > >
> > > BTW, there's nothing special about garlic infusions that
> > > makes them susceptible to botulism. In theory, any oil infusion
> > > that includes fresh herbs or vegetables may contain botulism
> > > spores on the substrate surface and therefore host botulism
> > > growth. Garlic just happens to be the most popular oil
> > > infusion and therefore has the most cases associated with
> > > it, rare though it is.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Reg
> > >
> >
> > Ok, so with all this in mind..........I like to make an herb butter,
which
> > is just a variety of fresh herbs chopped fine, and mixed with butter,
that I
> > serve with fresh baguette or on corn on the cob. I mix in very small
> > quantities but sometimes I have leftover....how would I store it and for
how
> > long ? In the fridge I would guess, but for how long?
> >
> > Just curious, because I've been tossing it after a couple of days,
> > Kathi
> Hi- when I worked in a resturant as a prep cook, that was one of the
> items we made- we would use like 5# of butter at a time. We would roll
> it into logs, and then freeze it. They would slice off as much as
> needed. If it's wrapped well, it should last a couple of months
>

what an excellent idea! Thanks!!

Kathi