Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at the
moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously want
to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism). In
the absence of any recipe my current plan is:

Pierce the chilli near the top.
Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle to
be taken up).
Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of time I
feel good about, we'll say six hours).
Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before use.

Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
appreciated!

- Sean


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
George Shirley
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
> We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at the
> moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously want
> to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism). In
> the absence of any recipe my current plan is:
>
> Pierce the chilli near the top.
> Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle to
> be taken up).
> Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of time I
> feel good about, we'll say six hours).
> Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before use.
>
> Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
> appreciated!
>
> - Sean
>
>

According to the USDA there is NO safe way to infuse oils at home. I
would visit the Food Safety website at the University of Georgia if you
need confirmation.

George

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Scott
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >,
"Sean" > wrote:

> We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at the
> moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously want
> to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism). In
> the absence of any recipe my current plan is:


The only safe way to make flavored oils at home is to refrigerate the
oil after adding the flavoring and use it within a week or two.

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The Joneses
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:

> We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at the
> moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously want
> to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism). In
> the absence of any recipe my current plan is:
>
> Pierce the chilli near the top.
> Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle to
> be taken up).
> Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of time I
> feel good about, we'll say six hours).
> Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before use.
>
> Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
> appreciated!


The Joy of Pickling has a recipe for "Marinated Dried Tomatoes"
that is similar. Note that it uses Dried tomatoes, which I take to mean
very leathery at least or crispy. It also notes that this recipe must be
refrigerated and used within 3 weeks. There are a few recipes in this book
where I think the directions are a little confusing and this is one.
Edrena

"Marinated Dried Tomatoes, Joy of Pickling, Linda Ziedrich, 1998
Dried Tomatoes are wonderful when briefly rehydrated, then packed in
olive oil. If you add fresh garlic or herbs, however, you got to keep the
jar refrigerated and finish off the tomatoes within wthree weeks, or risk
contracting botulism. Olive oil, of course, solidifies in the refridgerator,
which means you must bring the jar to room temperature before eating
the tomatoes. My solution is to acidulate the tomatoes - that is, to
pickle them. Pickled dried tomatoes taste extra tart, but they are a
delicious addition to salads.
1 1/2 cups dried tomatoes
1 tablespoon whole small basil leaves
1/4 teaspoon pickling salt
2 large garlic cloves,slivered or minced
6 tablespoons red wine vinegar
2 tablespoons olive oil
1. Put the tomatoes into a small bowl, cover them with boiling
water, and let them stand for 5 minutes.
2. Drain the tomatoes. Toss them in the boil with the basil,
salt, garlic, and vinegtar. Let the mixture stand for 1 hour.
3. Pack the mixture into a sterile half-pint jar. Top with the
olive oil. Cover the jar tightly with a nonreactive cap, and store
it in a cool, dry, dark place. For long-term storage, keep
the jar in the refrigerator.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
SCUBApix
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?


"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at

the
> moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously

want
> to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism).

In
> the absence of any recipe my current plan is:
>
> Pierce the chilli near the top.
> Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle

to
> be taken up).
> Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of time

I
> feel good about, we'll say six hours).
> Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before use.
>
> Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
> appreciated!
>
> - Sean
>
>





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
SCUBApix
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?


"Sean" > wrote in message
...
> We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at

the
> moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously

want
> to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing botulism).

In
> the absence of any recipe my current plan is:
>
> Pierce the chilli near the top.
> Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle

to
> be taken up).
> Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of time

I
> feel good about, we'll say six hours).
> Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before use.
>
> Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
> appreciated!
>
> - Sean

As others have pointed out, making any kind of flavored oils at home should
ONLY be done if you will use the oil up in a day or two and you keep it
refrigerated in the interim.

As per Cook's Illustrated awhile back, low heat infusion seems best for hot
peppers. I can look up the article if you need it.


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

My, we sure are sounding rather defeatist here! I am certain people can and
are producing safe infused oils at home, so I'm not going to give up as
easily!

I notice the commercial chili oils I've checked state there are no
artificial preservatives or additives, only oil and dried chilies. It is
also widely understood and accepted that the botulinum bacteria cannot
develop in low moisture content food. Therefore it must be safe to add them
when dried. The FAQ for THIS group even states:

If an item is dependably dry, under 35% water content,
adding it to the oil should not cause problems, as long
as your items are well immersed (1 inch of oil covering).
Dry herbs, seeds and spices, dried chiles, even sundried
tomatoes should not cause problems.

So failing all else I could certainly dry the chilies first, then add them.
But furthermore the Rec.Food.Preserving FAQ also states:

Chilies often are added to oil in a non-dried state.
Generally, you want to "pickle", or at least allow your wet,
raw item to take up some 5% vinegar for about 15-20
minutes before putting into the oil.

It sounds as easy as pie, provided that like any preserving you recognize
the risks and appropriately preserve the food against them. Just because a
couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil, doesn't mean we should
all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in oil! It's easy to leap
onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really doesn't do anyone any good.

- Sean


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Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Edrena,

Thanks for the recipe. As the recipe deals with tomatoes, which are acidic,
I'm just not certain the same would be safe when dealing with chilies.

I think to be completely safe I'll dry the chilies first. That way the
product will be safe to store at room temp. I'm thinking another method
would be to place the fresh chilies in the oil and then heat the oil to just
above boiling. After all the moisture has been driven off the oil should be
100% safe. The heat should also help the chilies infuse into the oil. I
might even try to add some fresh oregano sprigs into it at the same time. As
long as I didn't turn the heat up too high I wouldn't think either would
discolor. I think it would taste fantastic in cooking and look great in the
bottle too.

- Sean


"The Joneses" > wrote in message
...
> Sean wrote:
>
> > We have a chilli plant which is producing chillies (HOT) in abundance at

the
> > moment. We're keen to preserve the excess, and really like the idea of
> > making some chilli infused oil. Does anyone have any recipes for this? I
> > want to create something that can be stored at room temp, and obviously

want
> > to avoid having it start fermenting (or the risk of developing

botulism). In
> > the absence of any recipe my current plan is:
> >
> > Pierce the chilli near the top.
> > Allow chillies to air-dry for a few days (which should cause more pickle

to
> > be taken up).
> > Then pickle in a solution of vinegar and citric acid (for a period of

time I
> > feel good about, we'll say six hours).
> > Drain well and then add to the oil (canola) and allow to steep before

use.
> >
> > Does that sound safe? Anyone with a recipe or method? Any help is much
> > appreciated!

>
> The Joy of Pickling has a recipe for "Marinated Dried Tomatoes"
> that is similar. Note that it uses Dried tomatoes, which I take to mean
> very leathery at least or crispy. It also notes that this recipe must be
> refrigerated and used within 3 weeks. There are a few recipes in this book
> where I think the directions are a little confusing and this is one.
> Edrena
>
> "Marinated Dried Tomatoes, Joy of Pickling, Linda Ziedrich, 1998
> Dried Tomatoes are wonderful when briefly rehydrated, then packed in
> olive oil. If you add fresh garlic or herbs, however, you got to keep the
> jar refrigerated and finish off the tomatoes within wthree weeks, or risk
> contracting botulism. Olive oil, of course, solidifies in the

refridgerator,
> which means you must bring the jar to room temperature before eating
> the tomatoes. My solution is to acidulate the tomatoes - that is, to
> pickle them. Pickled dried tomatoes taste extra tart, but they are a
> delicious addition to salads.
> 1 1/2 cups dried tomatoes
> 1 tablespoon whole small basil leaves
> 1/4 teaspoon pickling salt
> 2 large garlic cloves,slivered or minced
> 6 tablespoons red wine vinegar
> 2 tablespoons olive oil
> 1. Put the tomatoes into a small bowl, cover them with boiling
> water, and let them stand for 5 minutes.
> 2. Drain the tomatoes. Toss them in the boil with the basil,
> salt, garlic, and vinegtar. Let the mixture stand for 1 hour.
> 3. Pack the mixture into a sterile half-pint jar. Top with the
> olive oil. Cover the jar tightly with a nonreactive cap, and store
> it in a cool, dry, dark place. For long-term storage, keep
> the jar in the refrigerator.
>
>



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
>
> My, we sure are sounding rather defeatist here! I am certain people can and
> are producing safe infused oils at home, so I'm not going to give up as
> easily!


Where can I purchase tickets? I've always wanted to watch evolution in
action.

B/
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

As I said, provided that like any preserving you recognize the risks and
appropriately preserve the food against them, then it should be as easy as
pie. Just because a couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil,
doesn't mean we should all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in
oil! It's easy to leap onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really
doesn't do anyone any good.

- Sean


"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Sean wrote:
> >
> > My, we sure are sounding rather defeatist here! I am certain people can

and
> > are producing safe infused oils at home, so I'm not going to give up as
> > easily!

>
> Where can I purchase tickets? I've always wanted to watch evolution in
> action.
>
> B/





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reg
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
> As I said, provided that like any preserving you recognize the risks and
> appropriately preserve the food against them, then it should be as easy as
> pie. Just because a couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil,
> doesn't mean we should all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in
> oil! It's easy to leap onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really
> doesn't do anyone any good.


I agree, and from the looks of it you're getting at the right information
but...
It seems to me you're under the impression that oil infusion is
a form of preserving. It's not, even with dried chiles. Just refridgerate
it and/or don't keep it around too long.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Oh no, I understand that oil has no preserving properties whatsoever. And I
understand that those who have falsely assumed that oil would have
preserving qualities were the ones who ended up with a product that was not
safe. Perhaps instead of "Chilies Preserved and Infused in Oil?" I should
have said "Preserving chilies, and then infusing into oil?". That would have
made my intentions a little clearer.

I'm thinking now that I might soak them in vinegar for a few hours, then
heat them in the oil until completely dry. That should mean they have a high
acid content, as well as being dried. If I'm lucky they'll retain their
shape and color if I pierce them and do not overheat the oil too much.

Not sure if anyone knows, but I'm wondering if drying something after
vinegar has been added will cause it to disintegrate or discolor from the
acid? Maybe I should only ever so briefly dip them, say for 10 minutes or
so?

- Sean


"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> Sean wrote:
> > As I said, provided that like any preserving you recognize the risks and
> > appropriately preserve the food against them, then it should be as easy

as
> > pie. Just because a couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil,
> > doesn't mean we should all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in
> > oil! It's easy to leap onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really
> > doesn't do anyone any good.

>
> I agree, and from the looks of it you're getting at the right information
> but...
> It seems to me you're under the impression that oil infusion is
> a form of preserving. It's not, even with dried chiles. Just refridgerate
> it and/or don't keep it around too long.
>
> --
> Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com
>



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
> Oh no, I understand that oil has no preserving properties whatsoever. And I
> understand that those who have falsely assumed that oil would have
> preserving qualities were the ones who ended up with a product that was not
> safe. Perhaps instead of "Chilies Preserved and Infused in Oil?" I should
> have said "Preserving chilies, and then infusing into oil?". That would have
> made my intentions a little clearer.
>
> I'm thinking now that I might soak them in vinegar for a few hours, then
> heat them in the oil until completely dry. That should mean they have a high
> acid content, as well as being dried. If I'm lucky they'll retain their
> shape and color if I pierce them and do not overheat the oil too much.
>
> Not sure if anyone knows, but I'm wondering if drying something after
> vinegar has been added will cause it to disintegrate or discolor from the
> acid? Maybe I should only ever so briefly dip them, say for 10 minutes or
> so?
>
> - Sean
>


What exactly are you trying to accomplish? I'm serious. If you are trying
to flavor the oil, you can do a much better job with commercial dried
chiles without wasting your fresh ones. Chop the dried peppers, heat in a
non-drying vegetable oil (like peanut oil or refined olive oil) at about
250 or 300 degrees for a while, and then strain out the solids. Or buy
"chilli oil" already made at an Asian market.

Do not try to leave the peppers in the oil. It won't accomplish anything
and it's just asking for spoilage.

Enjoy your fresh peppers *fresh*, or freeze them, or pickle them.

Best regards,
Bob

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?



Sean wrote:

> Thanks for the recipe. As the recipe deals with tomatoes, which are acidic,
> I'm just not certain the same would be safe when dealing with chilies.
>
> I think to be completely safe I'll dry the chilies first. That way the
> product will be safe to store at room temp. I'm thinking another method
> would be to place the fresh chilies in the oil and then heat the oil to just
> above boiling. After all the moisture has been driven off the oil should be
> 100% safe. The heat should also help the chilies infuse into the oil. I
> might even try to add some fresh oregano sprigs into it at the same time. As
> long as I didn't turn the heat up too high I wouldn't think either would
> discolor. I think it would taste fantastic in cooking and look great in the
> bottle too.


I would trust drying more than boiling in oil. Also, heat will
mess up the flavor of the olive oil or sesame oil you are infusing
with hot pepper. (you aren't using vegetable oil are you?)

David
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?



Sean wrote:

> Not sure if anyone knows, but I'm wondering if drying something after
> vinegar has been added will cause it to disintegrate or discolor from the
> acid? Maybe I should only ever so briefly dip them, say for 10 minutes or
> so?


Acetic acid (the active ingredient in vinegar) is quite volatile,
so when you dry them all the added acid will go away. Waste of time.
I'd bet it would be safer to use dried than acidified in general...

David


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >,
Brian Mailman > wrote:

> Where can I purchase tickets? I've always wanted to watch evolution in
> action.


ROTFL!!!

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  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >,
"Sean" > wrote:

> As I said, provided that like any preserving you recognize the risks and
> appropriately preserve the food against them, then it should be as easy as
> pie. Just because a couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil,
> doesn't mean we should all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in
> oil! It's easy to leap onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really
> doesn't do anyone any good.


It's more than a matter of just "getting sick." Botulin is the deadliest
toxin occurring in nature; death is a real possibility. Why is it worth
the risk?

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  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
KenCo
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

zxcvbob wrote:
>
> Do not try to leave the peppers in the oil. It won't accomplish anything
> and it's just asking for spoilage.
>
> Enjoy your fresh peppers *fresh*, or freeze them, or pickle them.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob



hmm, so how do the comm. vendors do it?

you see them all the time in markets or is it
a very involved process?


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  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ken Anderson
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

"SCUBApix" > wrote
>
> As others have pointed out, making any kind of flavored oils at home

should
> ONLY be done if you will use the oil up in a day or two and you keep it
> refrigerated in the interim.
>
>

Use it up within two days? You've got to be joking.


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Sean
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

As far as I know death has never occurred from vegetables in oil. The
current fashion of saying you should never do it at home came out of one
event, where a few people got sick off of one company's goods. That company
was putting garlic in oil, using no other preservative or refrigeration.
They were an isolated case and were clearly doing the wrong thing.

I guess my point is that I would have assumed that a group that dealt solely
with food preservation would accept the concepts of food preservation, and
understand the simple science of it. Unfortunately this was a mistake on my
part.

My one question would be what happens when you can foods? You create the
PERFECT environment for botulism. Therefore none of you should can any more,
throw away your bottles and go buy it in the shop because it's "easier".
It's a foolish concept only a simpleton would put forward. So why can you
can? It's because you PRESERVE the product against botulism. You add acid in
the form of tomatoes, or vinegar, or citric acid, or you take up available
moisture with pectin etc. Or you might raise the salt content of the food.
In short you preserve the food, and the same applies to putting things in
oil. The concept that oil is going to somehow cause botulism is absurd, it
simply doesn't stop botulism from occurring. Nothing more. So all we have to
do is ensure our vegetables are suitably preserved before putting them in
the oil.

My original question was asking whether a relatively straightforward process
which should be safe was indeed an acceptable method, or more importantly
whether someone had a good recipe they could share. As it is obvious that
no-one has I will look elsewhere for help, and do some experiments myself. I
really didn't come here for the being hit on the head lessons, nor am I
interested in staying around for them. LOL

- Sean


"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Sean" > wrote:
>
> > As I said, provided that like any preserving you recognize the risks and
> > appropriately preserve the food against them, then it should be as easy

as
> > pie. Just because a couple people got sick once on some garlic in oil,
> > doesn't mean we should all forever panic at the thought of vegetables in
> > oil! It's easy to leap onto a bandwagon without thinking, but it really
> > doesn't do anyone any good.

>
> It's more than a matter of just "getting sick." Botulin is the deadliest
> toxin occurring in nature; death is a real possibility. Why is it worth
> the risk?
>
> --
> to respond, change "spamless.invalid" with "optonline.net"
> please mail OT responses only





  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Deb
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?


"KenCo" > wrote in message
...
> zxcvbob wrote:
> >
> > Do not try to leave the peppers in the oil. It won't accomplish

anything
> > and it's just asking for spoilage.
> >
> > Enjoy your fresh peppers *fresh*, or freeze them, or pickle

them.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bob

>
>
> hmm, so how do the comm. vendors do it?
>
> you see them all the time in markets or is it
> a very involved process?
>
>
> --


A vender at a local craft market winked and told me that *she* knew
how to do it right! She was licensed, insured, inspected, and
jumped through all the right hoops.

The first days she was at the market, she sold unlabeled product.
No ingredient list. As she said, I could see the dried herbs she'd
floated in the oil before she tied the pretty ribbon on it.

After much discussion, I thought she should just sell her goods as
art. They were very pretty.... She made beautiful jars of food in
oils and vinegar. She had a jar of preserved lemons that was the
prettiest thing. She decided to print up a generic ingredient
label, and there were some added acids there. For years now, she
has sold her product as food and told people to use it up and come
back for more.

To show no hard feelings for all the labeling I caused her to do,
she 'gifted' me with a jar of oil 'to cook with'.

That was several years ago. I still have the pretty bottle with the
herbs floating in it and the ribbon tied on. I wash it off every
once in awhile. Since it doesn't get used, it does get dusty....

Then I found this group, and I have learned so much by hanging out
here. Now I know why I don't use the bottle of herbal/pepper/oil in
my cooking. Maybe I would if I'd made it myself, or when it was
new.

I would use dry herbs or peppers only. I wouldn't make more than I
could use up in a few weeks at the most, and I would probably store
it in the fridge.

The question here was supposed to be how do I store my abundance of
peppers so I can use them instead of waste them.

I always dry some peppers. That way if I want to make oil or
vinegar I have some handy. I have bought a few jars of canned
peppers and see myself canning a few small jars of whole ones for a
chile relano or diced to add to salsa for my brother. I think I
would be sure to fire roast some and freeze them. Probably use ice
cube trays then zip-locks. I made the best dip with fire roasted
peppers for T-day!

I hope I've managed to give a few ideas for preserving the abundance
of peppers. It seemed to me that the OP got fixated on one type of
preserving and wanted to argue about making a ten year supply,
instead of a few bottles for gifts for his friends, to use up in Jan
or turn into another 'dust'em'. There's LOTS of ways to preserve
peppers!

If you still have too many, you can send me some. Mine did very
poorly this year. ;<

Deb
--
(in Oregon, the pacific northWET) ;>




  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
> As far as I know death has never occurred from vegetables in oil. The
> current fashion of saying you should never do it at home came out of one
> event, where a few people got sick off of one company's goods. That company
> was putting garlic in oil, using no other preservative or refrigeration.
> They were an isolated case and were clearly doing the wrong thing.
>
> I guess my point is that I would have assumed that a group that dealt solely
> with food preservation would accept the concepts of food preservation, and
> understand the simple science of it. Unfortunately this was a mistake on my
> part.
>

[snip]

Since you are the expert and we obviously don't know what we are talking
about, why did you ask in the first place?

Bob

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Sean wrote:
>
> As far as I know death has never occurred from vegetables in oil.


And that, of course, means it's never happend and can't.

> I guess my point is that I would have assumed that a group that dealt solely
> with food preservation would accept the concepts of food preservation,


as put forth by you and you only

> and understand the simple science of it.


Since you "understand" so well, why did you ask?

> Unfortunately this was a mistake on my part.


Your mistake is assuming that articulate and verbose will automatically
shock and awe onlookers into agreeing with you.

B/
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ken Anderson
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Sean wrote:
> >
> > As far as I know death has never occurred from vegetables in oil.

>
> And that, of course, means it's never happend and can't.
>
> > I guess my point is that I would have assumed that a group that dealt

solely
> > with food preservation would accept the concepts of food preservation,

>
> as put forth by you and you only
>
> > and understand the simple science of it.

>
> Since you "understand" so well, why did you ask?
>
> > Unfortunately this was a mistake on my part.

>
> Your mistake is assuming that articulate and verbose will automatically
> shock and awe onlookers into agreeing with you.
>
> B/
>
>

Yes, but some of you take it to no end. You can lose credibility by taking
things to the extreme. As an example, why didn't anyone (other than me)
address the poster who said peppers in oil must be refrigerated and used
within two days? You're going to let THAT post slide???


  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Ken Anderson wrote:
>
> "Brian Mailman" > wrote:


> > Your mistake is assuming that articulate and verbose will automatically
> > shock and awe onlookers into agreeing with you.


> Yes, but some of you take it to no end. You can lose credibility by taking
> things to the extreme. As an example, why didn't anyone (other than me)
> address the poster who said peppers in oil must be refrigerated and used
> within two days? You're going to let THAT post slide???


Didn't see it.

Two days max is a bit extreme, yah.

B/


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ken Anderson
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

I should have kept my mouth shut anyhow. I seldom post here and jumped in
looking very much like a troll. Grinch I can handle. I don't want to be a
troll. In truth, my safety awareness level has increased from information
shown here. Better safe than sorry.
Ken

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Ken Anderson wrote:
> >
> > "Brian Mailman" > wrote:

>
> > > Your mistake is assuming that articulate and verbose will

automatically
> > > shock and awe onlookers into agreeing with you.

>
> > Yes, but some of you take it to no end. You can lose credibility by

taking
> > things to the extreme. As an example, why didn't anyone (other than me)
> > address the poster who said peppers in oil must be refrigerated and used
> > within two days? You're going to let THAT post slide???

>
> Didn't see it.
>
> Two days max is a bit extreme, yah.
>
> B/



  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >, KenCo >
wrote:

> hmm, so how do the comm. vendors do it?
>
> you see them all the time in markets or is it
> a very involved process?


Two ways, from what I understand
1) acidifying the flavoring to the point where botulism cannot grow. The
problem for the home user is that they cannot verify that the pH is low
enough--or that the acidifying agent has fully penetrated
2) after flavoring the oil, filtering it to remove all of the substance
and its juices, thereby removing the moisture needed by the bacteria.
Perhaps this is do-able at home, but I don't know what is required to
this process properly (again, it may be an issue of impracticality for
the home user).

--
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  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Scott wrote:
>
> In article >, KenCo >
> wrote:
>
> > hmm, so how do the comm. vendors do it?
> >
> > you see them all the time in markets or is it
> > a very involved process?

>
> Two ways, from what I understand
> 1) acidifying the flavoring to the point where botulism cannot grow. The
> problem for the home user is that they cannot verify that the pH is low
> enough--or that the acidifying agent has fully penetrated


The former is easy enough if someone wants precision. Litmus strips.
It's the latter.

I entered into such a dialogue with someone from the FDA/USDA site about
roasted bell peppers in a BWB. I said, "what if I acidify the peppers
in lemon juice for 48 hours, or add sour salt to the canning liquid?"

After some delay of a couple days while they thought about it, I
received the response, "_Maybe_ but we don't know any way to verify
absolutely the item itself will be properly acidified. Better off to
use a pressure canner for that and be assured of safety."

B/
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Ken Anderson wrote:
>
> Better safe than sorry.


That's the point. Many will attempt some kind of macho stance about it;
either bluster through the risks or minimize them (and maximizing isn't
good either, as you point out).

But I've had campylobacter/salmonella, and while it's one of those
things that one intrinsically knows isn't good, it takes getting it to
realize how very awful it really is. That week was about the longest
year of my life.

B/
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Marilyn©
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In ,
Brian Mailman > took a deep breath, sighed and spoke thusly:
> Ken Anderson wrote:
>>
>> Better safe than sorry.

>
> That's the point. Many will attempt some kind of macho stance about
> it; either bluster through the risks or minimize them (and maximizing
> isn't good either, as you point out).
>
> But I've had campylobacter/salmonella, and while it's one of those
> things that one intrinsically knows isn't good, it takes getting it to
> realize how very awful it really is. That week was about the longest
> year of my life.
>
> B/



I hear ya...I can't remember if I ever posted about this before, but I had it when I was
eight months pregnant. Put me into premature labor and I lost 7 pounds overnight from the
vomiting and diarrhea (they said the dehydration is what caused my labor). Had to go to
the hospital and spend several hours hooked up to an IV to get rehydrated and stop the
labor.

Not something I'd wish on anyone.



--
Marilyn
-----------
Having abandoned my search for the truth, I am now looking for a good
fantasy.




  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >,
Brian Mailman > wrote:

> But I've had campylobacter/salmonella, and while it's one of those
> things that one intrinsically knows isn't good, it takes getting it to
> realize how very awful it really is. That week was about the longest
> year of my life.


oh, yah. Once had food poisoning from a contaminated meat platter from a
deli. I slept on the bathroom floor, next to the toilet. One of the
other people effected was my brother who, coincidentally enough, is a
county health inspector. Want to take a guess on how quickly the deli
was investigated?
Turns out that the deli's meat slicer was loaded with various bacteria.

--
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  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >,
Scott > wrote:
>In article >,
> Brian Mailman > wrote:


>> But I've had campylobacter/salmonella, and while it's one of those
>> things that one intrinsically knows isn't good, it takes getting it to
>> realize how very awful it really is. That week was about the longest
>> year of my life.


>oh, yah. Once had food poisoning from a contaminated meat platter from a
>deli. I slept on the bathroom floor, next to the toilet. One of the
>other people effected was my brother

^^^^^^^^
\begin{silly spelling troll}

This caused your mother to get pregnant???



\end{silly spelling troll}

>who, coincidentally enough, is a
>county health inspector. Want to take a guess on how quickly the deli
>was investigated?
>Turns out that the deli's meat slicer was loaded with various bacteria.


I thought those things were santized to death several times a day . . .

Were they not cleaning it *at all8???

hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?



Scott wrote:

> oh, yah. Once had food poisoning from a contaminated meat platter from a
> deli. I slept on the bathroom floor, next to the toilet. One of the
> other people effected was my brother who, coincidentally enough, is a
> county health inspector. Want to take a guess on how quickly the deli
> was investigated?
> Turns out that the deli's meat slicer was loaded with various bacteria.


I got it once from some improperly handled food... Ate at the
house of some friends of my parents. Good people but not good
cooks. My father and I both got fairly sick.

David
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Pastorio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Brian Mailman wrote:

> Scott wrote:
>
>>In article >, KenCo >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>hmm, so how do the comm. vendors do it?
>>>
>>>you see them all the time in markets or is it
>>>a very involved process?

>>
>>Two ways, from what I understand
>>1) acidifying the flavoring to the point where botulism cannot grow. The
>>problem for the home user is that they cannot verify that the pH is low
>>enough--or that the acidifying agent has fully penetrated

>
>
> The former is easy enough if someone wants precision. Litmus strips.


Sorry, this won't do it. Litmus strips aren't sufficiently accurate
and they'll only measure exactly what they touch. They don't very well
distinguish between 4.8 and 4.2. They'll only give you a reading at
the outside, not deep in a crevice, etc.

In my manufacturing, I need pH measurements and the FDA says only a
proper pH meter will do. I agree.

> It's the latter.
>
> I entered into such a dialogue with someone from the FDA/USDA site about
> roasted bell peppers in a BWB. I said, "what if I acidify the peppers
> in lemon juice for 48 hours, or add sour salt to the canning liquid?"
>
> After some delay of a couple days while they thought about it, I
> received the response, "_Maybe_ but we don't know any way to verify
> absolutely the item itself will be properly acidified. Better off to
> use a pressure canner for that and be assured of safety."


And that's the point, isn't it. It's a guess and it will vary as the
batch of peppers. Too many variables.

Pastorio

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Bob Pastorio wrote:
>
> Brian Mailman wrote:


> > The former is easy enough if someone wants precision. Litmus strips.

>
> Sorry, this won't do it. Litmus strips ... don't very well
> distinguish between 4.8 and 4.2. They'll only give you a reading at
> the outside, not deep in a crevice, etc.


The Baba Rum Raisin (me, in my more profound; moments) says, "Ya live
and learn. Then ya learn some more."

> > I entered into such a dialogue with someone from the FDA/USDA site about
> > roasted bell peppers in a BWB. I said, "what if I acidify the peppers
> > in lemon juice for 48 hours, or add sour salt to the canning liquid?"
> >
> > After some delay of a couple days while they thought about it, I
> > received the response, "_Maybe_ but we don't know any way to verify
> > absolutely the item itself will be properly acidified. Better off to
> > use a pressure canner for that and be assured of safety."

>
> And that's the point, isn't it. It's a guess and it will vary as the
> batch of peppers. Too many variables.


Eggzackly.

B/


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Feuer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?



Brian Mailman wrote:

> > And that's the point, isn't it. It's a guess and it will vary as the
> > batch of peppers. Too many variables.

>
> Eggzackly.


If you fully pickle the peppers you'll be safe, but that might not
taste so wonderful.

David
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott
 
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Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

In article >, Feuer > wrote:

> I got it once from some improperly handled food... Ate at the
> house of some friends of my parents. Good people but not good
> cooks. My father and I both got fairly sick.


People can be excellent cooks yet still handle food improperly. Ever
watch the cooking shows, and see the chefs artfully arranging the food
on the plate? Bare-hand contact with ready to serve food is forbidden by
most states' health codes.
Commonly, there's the issue of holding temperatures... leaving that egg
salad on the counter for an hour, for example.
Recontamination: taking the steak/chicken/etc. out of the marinade and
putting it on the grill, then basting it from the marinade the raw food
was sitting in.

--
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please mail OT responses only
  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Feuer wrote:
>
> Brian Mailman wrote:
>
> > > And that's the point, isn't it. It's a guess and it will vary as the
> > > batch of peppers. Too many variables.

> >
> > Eggzackly.

>
> If you fully pickle the peppers you'll be safe, but that might not
> taste so wonderful.


Right... this project was for a friend who loves roasted red peppers,*
but has arthritis in her thumbs and can't peel them easily AND since
they're extremely cheap in the Hispanic/Latino markets here during the
summer months and horribly expensive during the winter ones (it's kind
of a myth about "you can always get anything in California"--you can,
but you pay for it out of season))....

Anyway, pickled wouldn't do, if for no other reason than the choices in
utilizing them would be more limited.

*fave last summer: portobello "burger" with roasted red bell peppers,
goat cheese and pickled red onions

B/
  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Default Food Safety (was Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Scott wrote:

> People can be excellent cooks yet still handle food improperly.


Yeah.

> Ever
> watch the cooking shows, and see the chefs artfully arranging the food
> on the plate? Bare-hand contact with ready to serve food is forbidden by
> most states' health codes.


Cite? Maybe San Francisco is one of those states--what bothers me more
is when someone who's handling money, one of the dirtiest and germiest
of items (think of what people have on their hands and how many are
handling the same bill/coins) is also passing plates to customers. I'm
old enough to remember my stepmother stopping at the Sheraton Palace on
our errands Downtown to have her coins washedbby the fellow in the hotel
lobby so as not to soil her gloves. I digress.

I refused a deli sandwich y'day because the counterman who made my
sandwich was also acting as cashier. Told him that I'd come back when
his brother was running the register.

> Commonly, there's the issue of holding temperatures... leaving that egg
> salad on the counter for an hour, for example.


IF the egg salad was refrigerated first, one hour shouldn't be a
problem. First, it has to rise to a certain temperature for a certain
period of time. Actually, first it needs to be contaminated <G>. All
the same, if I'm doing egg salad sandwiches for a summer picnic, I pack
it separately with the cold beverages and assemble it in situ. And
pasta/potato salads aren't made with mayo, but olive oil dressings.

I've heard most illnesses caused by this source are actually
cross-contamination-caused, not by the eggs or mayo (and using olive oil
instead of mayo educes that risk) themselves, but by the utensil that
was used to dish out/spread the egg salad being used for something else
and then on the egg salad without washing it first.

> Recontamination: taking the steak/chicken/etc. out of the marinade and
> putting it on the grill, then basting it from the marinade the raw food
> was sitting in.


Ummmm... you probably mean "basting it from the marinade ... _before_
serving" here. Or using the marinade as a mop/sauce at the table
without boiling it first. Basting on the grill is fine, since the
marinade (and what remains on the item after you take it out) will be
sterilized from the grill heat.

Recontamination is a real problem. Many people will simply dump the
cooked item back onto the cutting board the raw stuff was sitting on, or
use the same utensils without washing them first.

B/
  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Pastorio
 
Posts: n/a
Default Food Safety (was Chilis Preserved and Infused in Oil?

Brian Mailman wrote:

> Scott wrote:
>
>
>>People can be excellent cooks yet still handle food improperly.

>
>
> Yeah.
>
>
>>Ever
>>watch the cooking shows, and see the chefs artfully arranging the food
>>on the plate? Bare-hand contact with ready to serve food is forbidden by
>>most states' health codes.


No, it isn't. And it shouldn't be. Gloves are a bad answer to the
problem of improperly washed hands.

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents2001/Glove-problems.html


> Cite? Maybe San Francisco is one of those states--what bothers me more
> is when someone who's handling money, one of the dirtiest and germiest
> of items (think of what people have on their hands and how many are
> handling the same bill/coins) is also passing plates to customers. I'm
> old enough to remember my stepmother stopping at the Sheraton Palace on
> our errands Downtown to have her coins washedbby the fellow in the hotel
> lobby so as not to soil her gloves. I digress.
>
> I refused a deli sandwich y'day because the counterman who made my
> sandwich was also acting as cashier. Told him that I'd come back when
> his brother was running the register.
>
>>Commonly, there's the issue of holding temperatures... leaving that egg
>>salad on the counter for an hour, for example.

>
> IF the egg salad was refrigerated first, one hour shouldn't be a
> problem. First, it has to rise to a certain temperature for a certain
> period of time. Actually, first it needs to be contaminated <G>. All
> the same, if I'm doing egg salad sandwiches for a summer picnic, I pack
> it separately with the cold beverages and assemble it in situ. And
> pasta/potato salads aren't made with mayo, but olive oil dressings.
>
> I've heard most illnesses caused by this source are actually
> cross-contamination-caused, not by the eggs or mayo (and using olive oil
> instead of mayo educes that risk) themselves, but by the utensil that
> was used to dish out/spread the egg salad being used for something else
> and then on the egg salad without washing it first.


Look over some of the science behind this stuff. Much of it will
confirm what you've said.

http://www.hi-tm.com/html/pubs_reports.html

Pastorio

>>Recontamination: taking the steak/chicken/etc. out of the marinade and
>>putting it on the grill, then basting it from the marinade the raw food
>>was sitting in.

>
>
> Ummmm... you probably mean "basting it from the marinade ... _before_
> serving" here. Or using the marinade as a mop/sauce at the table
> without boiling it first. Basting on the grill is fine, since the
> marinade (and what remains on the item after you take it out) will be
> sterilized from the grill heat.
>
> Recontamination is a real problem. Many people will simply dump the
> cooked item back onto the cutting board the raw stuff was sitting on, or
> use the same utensils without washing them first.
>
> B/


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