Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default Where do you buy supplies from? Online or Offline?

I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
local.

I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing who
the online competition is according to search engines.

I'm interested in knowing:
(1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
(2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
(2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
(2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
(2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
online purchase?
(2d) Other reason(s)?
(3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?

Thank you for your time and honest answers.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

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Julie Bove
 
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"Edward Alfert" > wrote in message
. 4...
> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
> posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
> online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
> local.
>
> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing who
> the online competition is according to search engines.
>
> I'm interested in knowing:
> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
> online purchase?
> (2d) Other reason(s)?
> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>
> Thank you for your time and honest answers.


I bought my canner online. Only reason being, that by the time I needed
one, I couldn't find any in the local stores. Am considering buying some
regular lids for my canning jars so I can store popcorn. If I can't find
these in the local store, I will buy online. I buy things in a variety of
places. Shipping cost is not usually a concern unless it's really high.
Many of the places I buy from online offer free shipping. Of course,
certain restrictions may apply.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default

"Julie Bove" > wrote in
news:fuwHd.2184$Hg6.542@trnddc09:

> "Edward Alfert" > wrote in message
> . 4...
>> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read
>> archived posts) in researching the home food preservation market for
>> a possible online business venture for a company that currently only
>> sells to the local.
>>
>> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in
>> knowing who the online competition is according to search engines.
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing:
>> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after
>> an online purchase?
>> (2d) Other reason(s)?
>> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>>
>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
> I bought my canner online. Only reason being, that by the time I
> needed one, I couldn't find any in the local stores. Am considering
> buying some regular lids for my canning jars so I can store popcorn.
> If I can't find these in the local store, I will buy online. I buy
> things in a variety of places. Shipping cost is not usually a concern
> unless it's really high. Many of the places I buy from online offer
> free shipping. Of course, certain restrictions may apply.
>


Thanks Julie for the response. I interpret from your response that you
prefer to buy offline and only purchase online when what you are looking
for is not available locally. Good info to know.

Thanks also for letting me know that shipping costs are not normally a
concern. It is still being debated, but free shipping would most likely
only be offered to orders over a certain amount (what that magic number
is is also being debated). For smaller orders, shipping cost would be
actual shipping costs with maybe a small handling fee of maybe $1
(again, still being debated).

Thanks again Julie for the response.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default

"Julie Bove" > wrote in
news:fuwHd.2184$Hg6.542@trnddc09:

> "Edward Alfert" > wrote in message
> . 4...
>> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read
>> archived posts) in researching the home food preservation market for
>> a possible online business venture for a company that currently only
>> sells to the local.
>>
>> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in
>> knowing who the online competition is according to search engines.
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing:
>> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after
>> an online purchase?
>> (2d) Other reason(s)?
>> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>>
>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
> I bought my canner online. Only reason being, that by the time I
> needed one, I couldn't find any in the local stores. Am considering
> buying some regular lids for my canning jars so I can store popcorn.
> If I can't find these in the local store, I will buy online. I buy
> things in a variety of places. Shipping cost is not usually a concern
> unless it's really high. Many of the places I buy from online offer
> free shipping. Of course, certain restrictions may apply.
>


Thanks Julie for the response. I interpret from your response that you
prefer to buy offline and only purchase online when what you are looking
for is not available locally. Good info to know.

Thanks also for letting me know that shipping costs are not normally a
concern. It is still being debated, but free shipping would most likely
only be offered to orders over a certain amount (what that magic number
is is also being debated). For smaller orders, shipping cost would be
actual shipping costs with maybe a small handling fee of maybe $1
(again, still being debated).

Thanks again Julie for the response.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

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The Joneses
 
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Default

Edward Alfert wrote:

> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
> posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
> online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
> local.
> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing who
> the online competition is according to search engines.
> I'm interested in knowing:
> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
> online purchase?
> (2d) Other reason(s)?
> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
> Thank you for your time and honest answers.


I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and offbeat
supplies as well as more common products together in one order. For example,
pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've never used what I got), and
ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is expensive, and I need some more regular
small lids, not the rings. I'd like to buy some small single use jars, but
I'm afraid the shipping would be exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their
price by tacking on huge shipping/handling fees.
Edrena




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default

The Joneses > wrote in
:

> Edward Alfert wrote:
>
>> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read
>> archived posts) in researching the home food preservation market for
>> a possible online business venture for a company that currently only
>> sells to the local.
>> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in
>> knowing who the online competition is according to search engines.
>> I'm interested in knowing:
>> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after
>> an online purchase?
>> (2d) Other reason(s)?
>> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
> I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and offbeat
> supplies as well as more common products together in one order. For
> example, pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've never used what
> I got), and ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is expensive, and I
> need some more regular small lids, not the rings. I'd like to buy
> some small single use jars, but I'm afraid the shipping would be
> exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their price by tacking on huge
> shipping/handling fees. Edrena


Thanks Edrena,

So a large selection is important. Good to know that it ranks high.
This probably goes hand-in-hand with shipping costs. You are able to
offset the extra shipping cost of online merchants versus offline
sources either because you get free shipping with orders over a certain
dollar amount, or because online sources may have lower prices that more
than compensate for the shipping cost. Even if the cost for the items
is the same online as offline, and you have not met the minimum order
amount, if you buy multiple items they can generally be shipped for a
very small increase in shipping cost.

Regarding ClearJel.. Yes, shipping costs can be high for heavy items.
Another example might be glass mason jars that have a low per unit cost
but because of their weight incur a higher shipping cost.

Thanks for sharing these additional issues.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

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Brian Mailman
 
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Default

Edward Alfert wrote:

> Thank you for your time and honest answers.


Sure, how much do you pay for focus group participants?

B/

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Loki
 
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Default

il Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:44:47 GMT, The Joneses ha scritto:

> I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and offbeat
> supplies as well as more common products together in one order. For example,
> pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've never used what I got), and
> ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is expensive, and I need some more regular
> small lids, not the rings. I'd like to buy some small single use jars, but
> I'm afraid the shipping would be exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their
> price by tacking on huge shipping/handling fees.
> Edrena


They sure do. I got some CD's that had a $3.40 canadian stamp on the
wrapping, but we were charged $20 US which was as much as for the
CD's. I'd never deal with that supplier again. So it was counter
productive for them if they wanted repeat business.

Online shopping sounds great but I still like to see and touch before
I buy :-)
--
Cheers,
Loki [ Brevity is the soul of wit. W.Shakespeare ]

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default

Brian Mailman > wrote in
:

> Edward Alfert wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
> Sure, how much do you pay for focus group participants?
>
> B/
>


Hi Brian,

Yes, this is market research. Yes, it does benefit us. Yes, we are a
commercial venture. If you feel that means we need to pay for your answer,
then I respect your view. But, this request for information does not
provide compensation other than a "thank you".

If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very grateful.
If someone does not, that is fine too. Thank you to all that freely share
their view.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Default

"Loki" > wrote in
:

> il Wed, 19 Jan 2005 18:44:47 GMT, The Joneses ha scritto:
>
>> I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and
>> offbeat supplies as well as more common products together in one
>> order. For example, pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've
>> never used what I got), and ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is
>> expensive, and I need some more regular small lids, not the rings.
>> I'd like to buy some small single use jars, but I'm afraid the
>> shipping would be exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their price
>> by tacking on huge shipping/handling fees. Edrena

>
> They sure do. I got some CD's that had a $3.40 canadian stamp on the
> wrapping, but we were charged $20 US which was as much as for the
> CD's. I'd never deal with that supplier again. So it was counter
> productive for them if they wanted repeat business.
>
> Online shopping sounds great but I still like to see and touch before
> I buy :-)


That is excessive. It is just to charge actual shipping. I also believe
it is moral to charge a small handling fee (the "H" part of "S&H") if it is
disclosed up front. But $7 handling fee seems excessive for a cdrom.

Loki, thanks for sharing about liking to see and touch a product before
deciding to buy. This is definitely a benefit of offline stores. Some
product categories might be impacted more by this than others. For
instance, I couldn't imagine myself buying clothing online because of this
reason.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Cook
 
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Edward Alfert > wrote:

>I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
>posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
>online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
>local.
>
>I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing who
>the online competition is according to search engines.
>
>I'm interested in knowing:
>(1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>(2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>(2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>(2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>(2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
>online purchase?
>(2d) Other reason(s)?
>(3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>
>Thank you for your time and honest answers.



Supplies I normally buy locally since I live in a small town and want
to do my part to keep the stores here. I do order books and Cd's
since I know what I am getting and there are not many decisions there.
Otherwise I want to see and touch.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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The Cook > wrote in
:

> Edward Alfert > wrote:
>
>>I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
>>posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
>>online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
>>local.
>>
>>I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>>providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing
>>who the online competition is according to search engines.
>>
>>I'm interested in knowing:
>>(1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>>(2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>>(2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>>(2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>>(2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
>>online purchase?
>>(2d) Other reason(s)?
>>(3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>>
>>Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
>
> Supplies I normally buy locally since I live in a small town and want
> to do my part to keep the stores here. I do order books and Cd's
> since I know what I am getting and there are not many decisions there.
> Otherwise I want to see and touch.


Oh..yes... I had forgotten about that reason. Makes perfect sense. People
in small towns tend to want to help their own community prosper. Living in
a large impersonal city seems to have obscured that reason for me.

What you mention is very similar to why there is often great opposition
when a Walmart tries to open a location in a small town. Many of the
residents fear it will cause small mom-and-pop main street stores to close
because they won't be able to compete with price or selections at Walmart.
Also, trying to preserver that small town feel and way of life. Very valid
points.

Thanks The Cook.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article > , Edward
Alfert > wrote:

> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
> posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
> online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
> local.
>
> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing
> who
> the online competition is according to search engines.
>
> I'm interested in knowing:
> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?


Local.

> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?


Habit.

> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?


Probably not -- probably more expensive.

> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?


Haven't pursued it to that degree.

> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
> online purchase?


There's that, although I usually buy pectin at least 3-6 boxes at a
time. Sometimes more.

> (2d) Other reason(s)?


Laziness? I simply haven't taken the time to do the math to see how
many batches of jam or jelly I'd get from their (online - Pacific
Pectin) minimum order quantity.

> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?


I'm considering buying from Pacific Pectin -- I've used their products
and have been quite content with them. Their phone guys are helpful,
too.

> Thank you for your time and honest answers.


Any time.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >, Edward
Alfert > wrote:

> Brian Mailman > wrote in
> :
>
> > Edward Alfert wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

> >
> > Sure, how much do you pay for focus group participants?
> >
> > B/
> >

>
> Hi Brian,
>
> Yes, this is market research. Yes, it does benefit us. Yes, we are
> a commercial venture. If you feel that means we need to pay for your
> answer, then I respect your view. But, this request for information
> does not provide compensation other than a "thank you".


> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very grateful.


To the extent that you'll send us a free jar of something? Pweeeeeze?
:-)

> If someone does not, that is fine too. Thank you to all that freely
> share their view.

--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, The Joneses
> wrote:

> Edward Alfert wrote:
>
> > I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived


>
> I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and
> offbeat supplies as well as more common products together in one
> order. For example, pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've
> never used what I got), and ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is
> expensive, and I need some more regular small lids, not the rings.
> I'd like to buy some small single use jars, but I'm afraid the
> shipping would be exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their price
> by tacking on huge shipping/handling fees.


> Edrena


Glass is expensive to ship. I feel your pain.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article > , Edward
Alfert > wrote:
(snip)
> stores. Some product categories might be impacted more by this than
> others. For instance, I couldn't imagine myself buying clothing
> online because of this reason.


(grin> Ah, I do more business with Lands' End than any other online
merchant. I know their merchandise and know that their sizes fit me!
And with the outfit that makes my underpinnings. I've seen what I want
locally and can save 30-40% online -- including shipping. If I had to
pay return postage for an item, I'd probably re-consider. As it
happens, I've a Lands' End inlet near me (and I think all Sears stores
will now take Lands' End returns, too) as well as a shop that carries my
brand of underpinnings.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Cook
 
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Default

Edward Alfert > wrote:

>The Cook > wrote in
:
>
>> Edward Alfert > wrote:
>>
>>>I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
>>>posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
>>>online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
>>>local.
>>>
>>>I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>>>providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing
>>>who the online competition is according to search engines.
>>>
>>>I'm interested in knowing:
>>>(1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
>>>(2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
>>>(2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
>>>(2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
>>>(2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
>>>online purchase?
>>>(2d) Other reason(s)?
>>>(3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>>>
>>>Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>>
>>
>> Supplies I normally buy locally since I live in a small town and want
>> to do my part to keep the stores here. I do order books and Cd's
>> since I know what I am getting and there are not many decisions there.
>> Otherwise I want to see and touch.

>
>Oh..yes... I had forgotten about that reason. Makes perfect sense. People
>in small towns tend to want to help their own community prosper. Living in
>a large impersonal city seems to have obscured that reason for me.
>
>What you mention is very similar to why there is often great opposition
>when a Walmart tries to open a location in a small town. Many of the
>residents fear it will cause small mom-and-pop main street stores to close
>because they won't be able to compete with price or selections at Walmart.
>Also, trying to preserver that small town feel and way of life. Very valid
>points.
>
>Thanks The Cook.



WalMart came into town and many of the small mom and pop stores are no
more. One of the 3 groceries is in the process of going out of
business. Since textiles and furniture are the main industries here,
it is rough.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
George Shirley
 
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article > , Edward
> Alfert > wrote:
> (snip)
>
>>stores. Some product categories might be impacted more by this than
>>others. For instance, I couldn't imagine myself buying clothing
>>online because of this reason.

>
>
> (grin> Ah, I do more business with Lands' End than any other online
> merchant. I know their merchandise and know that their sizes fit me!
> And with the outfit that makes my underpinnings. I've seen what I want
> locally and can save 30-40% online -- including shipping. If I had to
> pay return postage for an item, I'd probably re-consider. As it
> happens, I've a Lands' End inlet near me (and I think all Sears stores
> will now take Lands' End returns, too) as well as a shop that carries my
> brand of underpinnings.


Underpinnings? You pin your drawers on? You are one tough lady.

George, ducking and running

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
:

> In article > , Edward
> Alfert > wrote:
>
>> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read
>> archived posts) in researching the home food preservation market for
>> a possible online business venture for a company that currently only
>> sells to the local.
>>
>> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
>> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in
>> knowing who
>> the online competition is according to search engines.
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing:
>> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?

>
> Local.
>
>> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?

>
> Habit.
>
>> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?

>
> Probably not -- probably more expensive.
>
>> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?

>
> Haven't pursued it to that degree.
>
>> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after
>> an online purchase?

>
> There's that, although I usually buy pectin at least 3-6 boxes at a
> time. Sometimes more.
>
>> (2d) Other reason(s)?

>
> Laziness? I simply haven't taken the time to do the math to see how
> many batches of jam or jelly I'd get from their (online - Pacific
> Pectin) minimum order quantity.
>
>> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?

>
> I'm considering buying from Pacific Pectin -- I've used their products
> and have been quite content with them. Their phone guys are helpful,
> too.
>
>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>
> Any time.




Thank you Melba's Jammin' for going point-by-point.

Habit is a very strong thing to overcome. Even if some of your answers
mentioned other phrases like "Haven't pursued it to that degree" or
"lazy", it all seems to go back to habit. Sometimes one's greatest
competition is not another competitor but a customer's habit.

I also took note of your comment about having "product knowledgeable"
people answering the phone instead of simply order takers. I can see
that making a big difference between closing a sale or not.

Thanks.


--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Melba's Jammin' > wrote in
:

<snip>
>> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very
>> grateful.

>
> To the extent that you'll send us a free jar of something? Pweeeeeze?
>:-)


I don't think you want to try a batch of my home canned foods. I know my
dog (http://edward.alfert.com/chaval) wouldn't even eat it. So, I'll see
what we can work out. I'll post back (without spamming or website URL) if
this venture gets off the ground.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
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  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Melba's Jammin' > wrote in news:thisisbogus-
:

> In article >, The Joneses
> > wrote:
>
>> Edward Alfert wrote:
>>
>> > I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read

archived
>
>>
>> I would buy from online stores if I could get many strange and
>> offbeat supplies as well as more common products together in one
>> order. For example, pickling lime can be hard to find (altho I've
>> never used what I got), and ClearJel is cheap, but the shipping is
>> expensive, and I need some more regular small lids, not the rings.
>> I'd like to buy some small single use jars, but I'm afraid the
>> shipping would be exorbitant. Some places seem to make up their price
>> by tacking on huge shipping/handling fees.

>
>> Edrena

>
> Glass is expensive to ship. I feel your pain.


That is definitely true, it may cost $8 S&H for a case of mason jars
that only cost $9 or $10. Talk about expensive... almost doubles the
customer's costs.

Sample shipping only cost for 11 pound package (about 1 case of mason
jars) to a US residential address: (keep in mind that to get an accurate
cost you have to consider source zip code and destination zip code)

Federal Express - FDX Ground - $6.65
United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $8.67
U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $6.41
AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $6.01

That is why it only makes sense if you buy more than a few cases at a
time in order to save on freight costs. Consider the cost when you buy
4 cases of mason jars (about 44 pounds):

Federal Express - FDX Ground - $11.29
United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $15.20
U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $9.35
AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $10.34

Now, that is more reasonable. Net cost is about $3 per case. And the
per case cost keeps going down the more cases you buy at a time.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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The Cook > wrote in
:

> WalMart came into town and many of the small mom and pop stores are no
> more. One of the 3 groceries is in the process of going out of
> business. Since textiles and furniture are the main industries here,
> it is rough.


Ouch... I don't know them, but can image the pain of a family that has
worked their entire life building a good life, and a small business to
support them, and sudenly finding themselves with having to start over.
What probably makes it worse is no longer being self-employed and having to
work for someone else. That entrepreneurial spirit is hard to keep in
check for many people.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
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Edward Alfert wrote:
> Brian Mailman > wrote in
> :
>
>> Edward Alfert wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you for your time and honest answers.

>>
>> Sure, how much do you pay for focus group participants?


> Hi Brian,
>
> Yes, this is market research. Yes, it does benefit us. Yes, we are a
> commercial venture.


That's pretty obvious. Wasn't the question I asked.

> If you feel that means we need to pay for your answer,


I get paid for my opinions, usually. I come here to share whatever
expertise I have and to gain some from other.

> then I respect your view. But, this request for information does not
> provide compensation other than a "thank you".


Well, see the "rec"? It means "recreation" not "business."

From the charter:

"From Thu Aug 25 10:39:36 1994
Control: newgroup rec.food.preserving
Newsgroups: rec.food.preserving
Path: uunet!tale
From:
(David C Lawrence)
Subject: newgroup rec.food.preserving
Approved:

Sender:
(David C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 1994 14:33:18 GMT
Message-ID: >
Lines: 16
Xref: uunet control:1151835

rec.food.preserving is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote
for creation by 281:31 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 19 Aug
1994.

For your newsgroups file:
rec.food.preserving Preserving foodstuffs, herbs, and medicinals.

The charter, culled from the call for votes:

....questions should be limited to home-grown items or
home-made preserved items."

Aside from the name, this should indicate this is a non-commercial
newsgroup.

> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very grateful.
> If someone does not, that is fine too. Thank you to all that freely share
> their view.


The key word is "share." What are you sharing? Taking, but not giving.

B/
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Joneses
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Edward Alfert wrote:

> >
> > Glass is expensive to ship. I feel your pain.

> That is definitely true, it may cost $8 S&H for a case of mason jars
> that only cost $9 or $10. Talk about expensive... almost doubles the
> customer's costs.
> Sample shipping only cost for 11 pound package (about 1 case of mason
> jars) to a US residential address: (keep in mind that to get an accurate
> cost you have to consider source zip code and destination zip code)
> Federal Express - FDX Ground - $6.65
> United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $8.67
> U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $6.41
> AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $6.01
> That is why it only makes sense if you buy more than a few cases at a
> time in order to save on freight costs. Consider the cost when you buy
> 4 cases of mason jars (about 44 pounds):
> Federal Express - FDX Ground - $11.29
> United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $15.20
> U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $9.35
> AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $10.34
> Now, that is more reasonable. Net cost is about $3 per case. And the
> per case cost keeps going down the more cases you buy at a time.


Edward - thanks for the breakdown. This may be a way for several
individuals to go together and buy in bulk. Most of my neighbors do not
cann, but I betcha if I peeked thru some of our local websites, I could find
somebody to partner with.
Edrena


  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Brian Mailman
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >, Edward
> Alfert > wrote:


>> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very grateful.

>
> To the extent that you'll send us a free jar of something? Pweeeeeze?
> :-)


See, that's my point.

We get the opportunity to help someone raid our wallets at a later date.
For free.

I realize this isn't particularly a popular view, but...

B/


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
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In article > , Edward
Alfert > wrote:

> Thank you Melba's Jammin' for going point-by-point.
>
> Habit is a very strong thing to overcome. Even if some of your answers
> mentioned other phrases like "Haven't pursued it to that degree" or
> "lazy", it all seems to go back to habit. Sometimes one's greatest
> competition is not another competitor but a customer's habit.


And you won't change a comfortable habit of mine without a really good
reason for me to switch. Give me a fantastic introductory deal, make
the experience extremely positive and I'll be back -- even if there's
not much dollar savings or if you cost a little more.

Now, about that free jar. . . .

> I also took note of your comment about having "product knowledgeable"
> people answering the phone instead of simply order takers. I can see
> that making a big difference between closing a sale or not.
>
> Thanks.

--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
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In article >, George Shirley
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article > , Edward
> > Alfert > wrote:
> > (snip)
> >
> >>stores. Some product categories might be impacted more by this than
> >>others. For instance, I couldn't imagine myself buying clothing
> >>online because of this reason.

> >
> >
> > (grin> Ah, I do more business with Lands' End than any other online
> > merchant. I know their merchandise and know that their sizes fit me!
> >
> > And with the outfit that makes my underpinnings. I've seen what I
> > want locally and can save 30-40% online -- including shipping. If
> > I had to pay return postage for an item, I'd probably re-consider.
> > As it happens, I've a Lands' End inlet near me (and I think all
> > Sears stores will now take Lands' End returns, too) as well as a
> > shop that carries my brand of underpinnings.


> Underpinnings? You pin your drawers on? You are one tough lady.
>
> George, ducking and running
>


Smartass. It's the Holzemfrumfloppins that are costly and hard to
find, Jorge. I'll always remember Peg Bracken saying that a good
"foundation garment" is a matter of engineering -- and engineering
doesn't come cheap!
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Joneses
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The Joneses wrote:

> Edward Alfert wrote:
> > > Glass is expensive to ship. I feel your pain.

> > That is definitely true, it may cost $8 S&H for a case of mason jars
> > that only cost $9 or $10. Talk about expensive... almost doubles the
> > customer's costs.
> > Sample shipping only cost for 11 pound package (about 1 case of mason
> > jars) to a US residential address: (keep in mind that to get an accurate
> > cost you have to consider source zip code and destination zip code)
> > Federal Express - FDX Ground - $6.65
> > United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $8.67
> > U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $6.41
> > AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $6.01
> > That is why it only makes sense if you buy more than a few cases at a
> > time in order to save on freight costs. Consider the cost when you buy
> > 4 cases of mason jars (about 44 pounds):
> > Federal Express - FDX Ground - $11.29
> > United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $15.20
> > U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $9.35
> > AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $10.34
> > Now, that is more reasonable. Net cost is about $3 per case. And the
> > per case cost keeps going down the more cases you buy at a time.

>
> Edward - thanks for the breakdown. This may be a way for several
> individuals to go together and buy in bulk. Most of my neighbors do not
> cann, but I betcha if I peeked thru some of our local websites, I could find
> somebody to partner with.
> Edrena


PS - howsa about your new online store linking some zipcodes or something? Maybe
with the purchaser's permissions.
E


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Joneses
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Edward Alfert wrote:

> I don't think you want to try a batch of my home canned foods. I know my
> dog (http://edward.alfert.com/chaval) wouldn't even eat it. So, I'll see
> what we can work out.


Now that is something we can definitely help you with. What did you try to
can and by which method? It is so much more helpful when a dealer understands
exactly what your issues are. Never sell steam canners. Don't bother with
paraffin unless your gonna sell candle kits.
Edrena


  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Brian Mailman > wrote in
:

> ...questions should be limited to home-grown items or
> home-made preserved items."


Brian,

Ok... I understand now what you mean.

> Aside from the name, this should indicate this is a non-commercial
> newsgroup.


I wasn't promoting a commercial venture to the members of this newsgroup...
I was trying to acquire knowledge. But, strickly speaking, the question
may not be "recreational" in nature but it was a questions regarding what
members did or did not do regarding purchases that related to their
"recreational" activity.

>> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very
>> grateful. If someone does not, that is fine too. Thank you to all
>> that freely share their view.

>
> The key word is "share." What are you sharing? Taking, but not
> giving.


I do believe I am also sharing by the responses I have given to other
replies in this thread and another thread I responded to (regarding FAQ for
this group). Granted, the FAQ response was wrong, but I did provide a
subsequent response to a sub-question that I believe is helpful to the
group.

If by "what [am I] sharing" you did not mean information, and would accept
goods/service/money in return for your answer to my questions, then you are
already bending your own rules by saying it is acceptable to ask
non-"recreational" questions in this group as long as there is
compensation.

Brian, I don't want to start a long argument with you. I do now realize
and concede that my starting of this thread may be in a "very-
grey/borderline-black" area, but I do believe I adhered to the "spirit" of
newsgroups because I did not spam or promote a company. If you and any
other member of this group felt I was in the wrong, I apologize.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup



  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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Brian Mailman > wrote in
:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> In article >, Edward
>> Alfert > wrote:

>
>>> If someone is kind enough to give us their opinions we are very
>>> grateful.

>>
>> To the extent that you'll send us a free jar of something?
>> Pweeeeeze?
>> :-)

>
> See, that's my point.
>
> We get the opportunity to help someone raid our wallets at a later
> date.
> For free.
>
> I realize this isn't particularly a popular view, but...
>
> B/
>


Ok, I see what you are saying.

But it wouldn't be "raiding" your wallet if you decided to buy from a
company. You would do it because that company provided something you
"wanted".

It might be better viewed as helping a company provide provide you with
things you need at a better price, superior level of service, etc. and that
you contributed to helping your own interests.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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The Joneses > wrote in
:

> The Joneses wrote:
>
>> Edward Alfert wrote:
>> > > Glass is expensive to ship. I feel your pain.
>> > That is definitely true, it may cost $8 S&H for a case of mason
>> > jars that only cost $9 or $10. Talk about expensive... almost
>> > doubles the customer's costs.
>> > Sample shipping only cost for 11 pound package (about 1 case of
>> > mason jars) to a US residential address: (keep in mind that to get
>> > an accurate cost you have to consider source zip code and
>> > destination zip code) Federal Express - FDX Ground - $6.65
>> > United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $8.67
>> > U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $6.41
>> > AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $6.01
>> > That is why it only makes sense if you buy more than a few cases at
>> > a time in order to save on freight costs. Consider the cost when
>> > you buy 4 cases of mason jars (about 44 pounds):
>> > Federal Express - FDX Ground - $11.29
>> > United Parcel Service - UPS Ground - $15.20
>> > U.S. Postal Service - USP Ground Machine - $9.35
>> > AirBorne - AirBorne Ground - $10.34
>> > Now, that is more reasonable. Net cost is about $3 per case. And
>> > the per case cost keeps going down the more cases you buy at a
>> > time.

>>
>> Edward - thanks for the breakdown. This may be a way for several
>> individuals to go together and buy in bulk. Most of my neighbors do
>> not cann, but I betcha if I peeked thru some of our local websites, I
>> could find somebody to partner with.
>> Edrena

>
> PS - howsa about your new online store linking some zipcodes or
> something? Maybe with the purchaser's permissions.
> E


Very interesting idea.

Allow customers the ability to add themselves to a database so that when
a customer wants to make a purchase they can search for other customers
that live near by and might also want to buy together in order to save
money on shipping.

I do see some obstacles for that to work.
(1) Customers would want to have their contact information accessible my
anyone. Or implement a private messaging system so that messages are
delivered anonymously until the recipient replies, and at that time both
send and recepient would have email addresses for each other. This is
very much how dating services do it.
(2) There would have to be a critical mass of customers so that it does
not seem like there isn't anyone near you that also buys from the same
store.
(3) Several customers would have to be at the same stage of their
purchase decision. Even a few days apart would cause a non-match.

There are probably other issues that may or may not be able to be
overcome. Something to think about. Thanks.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Edward Alfert
 
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The Joneses > wrote in
:

> Edward Alfert wrote:
>
>> I don't think you want to try a batch of my home canned foods. I
>> know my dog (http://edward.alfert.com/chaval) wouldn't even eat it.
>> So, I'll see what we can work out.

>
> Now that is something we can definitely help you with. What did you
> try to can and by which method?


Leftover spagetti using refrigeration method.

> It is so much more helpful when a dealer understands exactly what
> your issues are.


I agree, but I cannot be included in that group yet. I'm a newbie with
theoretical knowledge (from all the reading I have done recently) but no
actual hands-on experience yet. But, rest assured that that won't be the
case for long.

Keep in mind that I am the technical part of the equation (programmer, web
hosting, with a business/marketing background). Others in the company are
the ones with the product knowledge.

> Never sell steam canners. Don't bother with paraffin unless your
> gonna sell candle kits. Edrena


We have a long list of products/product lines that we may or not be selling
over the internet. Some of the possible lines included arts & crafts. But
that was only listed as a posibility and not seriously being considered.

--
Edward Alfert
http://www.rootmode.com/
Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup

  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
George Shirley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >, George Shirley
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>
>>>In article > , Edward
>>>Alfert > wrote:
>>>(snip)
>>>
>>>
>>>>stores. Some product categories might be impacted more by this than
>>>>others. For instance, I couldn't imagine myself buying clothing
>>>>online because of this reason.
>>>
>>>
>>>(grin> Ah, I do more business with Lands' End than any other online
>>>merchant. I know their merchandise and know that their sizes fit me!
>>>
>>>And with the outfit that makes my underpinnings. I've seen what I
>>>want locally and can save 30-40% online -- including shipping. If
>>>I had to pay return postage for an item, I'd probably re-consider.
>>>As it happens, I've a Lands' End inlet near me (and I think all
>>>Sears stores will now take Lands' End returns, too) as well as a
>>>shop that carries my brand of underpinnings.

>
>
>>Underpinnings? You pin your drawers on? You are one tough lady.
>>
>>George, ducking and running
>>

>
>
> Smartass. It's the Holzemfrumfloppins that are costly and hard to
> find, Jorge. I'll always remember Peg Bracken saying that a good
> "foundation garment" is a matter of engineering -- and engineering
> doesn't come cheap!


Ah yah, der bustenhalter, I understand. My two elder sisters have such a
problem, very largely endowed and now that they're in their seventies
the problem has, how shall I put this, gotten bigger. (snicker, snicker)

George

  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
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In article >, George Shirley
> wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

(snip)
> > Smartass. It's the Holzemfrumfloppins that are costly and hard to
> > find, Jorge. I'll always remember Peg Bracken saying that a good
> > "foundation garment" is a matter of engineering -- and engineering
> > doesn't come cheap!

>
> Ah yah, der bustenhalter, I understand. My two elder sisters have such a
> problem, very largely endowed and now that they're in their seventies
> the problem has, how shall I put this, gotten bigger. (snicker, snicker)
>
> George


Yeah, them knee bruises can be nasty.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
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In article > , Edward
Alfert > wrote:

> The Cook > wrote in
> :
>
> > WalMart came into town and many of the small mom and pop stores are no
> > more. One of the 3 groceries is in the process of going out of
> > business. Since textiles and furniture are the main industries here,
> > it is rough.

>
> Ouch... I don't know them, but can image the pain of a family that
> has worked their entire life building a good life, and a small
> business to support them, and sudenly finding themselves with having
> to start over. What probably makes it worse is no longer being
> self-employed and having to work for someone else. That
> entrepreneurial spirit is hard to keep in check for many people.


That first assumes being able to find a job paying a livable wage -- at
age 58 or so.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Anny Middon
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I do a lot of shopping in general online. In terms of canning supplies, a
quick mental review of my purchases indicates that I buy locally what I can
easily get locally and everything else online.

I live in suburban Chicago, which is not exactly a hotbed of canning
activity. I can get jars in many places (grocery stores, Walmart) in the
late summer, and at Ace Hardware year-round. Pectin is usually available in
the grocery year-round.

Jars cost a lot to ship so I haven't even priced them online. I would
however buy specialty jars online -- jars I can't find locally. For
instance, if I perfect my hot sauce recipe (the trail batch I made last
summer tasted fine but looked like baby poop), I'll search for hot sauce
bottles that can be BWB processed so I can give shelf-stable sauce (with
funny labels, of course) to certain dear friends.

Purchases related to canning I have made online include:

My All-American Pressure Canner -- I got recomendations from this group,
found the model I wanted online, and gave the link to my household Santa.
Frankly I have no idea where I could have purchased this locally.

Jelly Bag and Stand -- I tried to find this locally, but struck out even at
kitchen specialty shops.

Tomato Press -- Bought on Ebay. Never seen any locally.

Various cookbooks -- Some were available locally at places like Borders, but
when I was already placing an order for books online it was easy and much
cheaper to buy them online. '

Which leads to a couple of suggestions for you:

1. Consider offering cookbooks as part of your product line. I'll bet
there are church groups and women's clubs and the like out there who have
done canning cookbooks or general cookbooks with extensive sections on
canning. Since these are usually fundraising activities for the groups, I
imagine they would be glad to get a good online retail outlet. And of
course cooks like me would be glad to get a good source for these books,
which often have the best recipes.

2. Consider offering a clearinghouse for used supplies.

Anny

"Edward Alfert" > wrote in message
. 4...
> I've been lurking in this newsgroup for a while now (and read archived
> posts) in researching the home food preservation market for a possible
> online business venture for a company that currently only sells to the
> local.
>
> I have done searches in search engines and found many online stores
> providing products for this market. But I'm not interested in knowing who
> the online competition is according to search engines.
>
> I'm interested in knowing:
> (1) Do y'all buy from online stores or from your local stores?
> (2) If you do not buy from online stores, why not?
> (2a) Product costs the same or lower in local stores?
> (2b) Shipping cost making online purchases too costly?
> (2c) Not wanting to wait the time it takes to receive product after an
> online purchase?
> (2d) Other reason(s)?
> (3) If you do buy online, what websites do you buy from?
>
> Thank you for your time and honest answers.
>
> --
> Edward Alfert
> http://www.rootmode.com/
> Multiple Domain Hosting and Reseller Hosting Plans
> Promotional Code (Recurring $5/month Discount): newsgroup
>



  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article > , "Anny
Middon" > wrote:
(snip)
>
> Which leads to a couple of suggestions for you:
>
> 1. Consider offering cookbooks as part of your product line. I'll
> bet there are church groups and women's clubs and the like out there
> who have done canning cookbooks or general cookbooks with extensive
> sections on canning. Since these are usually fundraising activities
> for the groups, I imagine they would be glad to get a good online
> retail outlet. And of course cooks like me would be glad to get a
> good source for these books, which often have the best recipes.


No offense, Anny, but they also usually have the worst processing
information. Which might be misleading to a new canner. JAT.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and
say,'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner,
performance at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.
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