Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?

I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
substitute for the lemon juice?

Whirled Peas wrote:
> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
> really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
> to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
> exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
> juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
> substitute for the lemon juice?

ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or citric acid are common
acidifiers along with distilled vinegar or any of the
other vinegars.


songbird

On 9/26/2015 1:29 PM, songbird wrote:
> Whirled Peas wrote:
>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>
>> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
>> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
>> really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
>> to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
>> exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
>> juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
>> substitute for the lemon juice?
>
> ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or citric acid are common
> acidifiers along with distilled vinegar or any of the
> other vinegars.
>
>
> songbird
>


But any of them will add the same acid flavor as lemon juice.

gloria p

On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 10:52:16 -0700, Whirled Peas >
wrote:

>Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
>I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
>on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
>really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
>to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
>exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
>juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
>substitute for the lemon juice?

One of the best and most reliable books, "So Easy to Preserve" has
this recipe for Berry Jams.

9 cups crushed berries
6 cups sugar

Cook to the jelling point at your location. Pour into hot jars
leaving 1/4 inch head space. Process in boiling water bath for 5
minutes.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?

Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:

I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)

Also, I have no objection to the acid taste, but the ever-present lemon
contaminant has become objectionable to me.

My grandmother made pectin-free jams and jellies. I always admired her
for that reason, and many others. Maybe it's now time to try this
approach. No added pectin and no added lemon juice. Just deseeded
berries, a lot of sugar and about 13 minutes boiling time. Further
research is necessary.

Thanks again for your help.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
wrote:

> No added pectin and no added lemon juice. Just deseeded
> berries, a lot of sugar and about 13 minutes boiling time.

One reason I don't buy factory jelly is that it always contains so
much pectin that it tastes as though it would bounce.

When my mother made strawberry preserves, she always assumed that we
would fish out the berries to spread on our toast, and use the syrup
on ice cream. (Ah, the days when mothers bought ice cream in big
round containers!)

Her recipe:


Strawberry Preserves
Put three cups strawberries in the preserving kettle, pour three
cups sugar in a mound in center, using a funnel or paper cone. Do
NOT mix sugar and berries. Place kettle over a low fire. After it
begins to heat, a bubble will appear at the side of the pan near the
edge. After the third bubble has formed, let the berries cook twenty
minutes, then (pour them into a stone crock or porcelain pan and)
leave uncovered until the next day. [Step in parenthesis unnecessary
if you have a stainless-steel kettle, and it is better not to disturb
the berries.] Pour or spoon them from the crock without reheating and
seal in sterile jars.
Mom froze these preserves in pint jars, so that they tasted fresh
all winter.
Before we got the freezer, Mom would pack the berries as soon as
they were cooked, so that the hot preserves would melt paraffin in the
bottom of a sterile pint jar; the paraffin rose to the top and formed
an air-tight cork as the preserves cooled. If left in the kettle
overnight, some of the syrup goes back into the fruit and the
preserves will be thicker and more like jam.



I modified this recipe to preserve some lemons left over from the
fourth of July. After reading several marmalade recipes, I weighed
the lemons, sliced them into a stainless kettle while picking out the
seeds, added half a cup of water to get the cooking started, and
simmered them for an hour. Then I added a cup of fructose per
half-pound of lemons and boiled gently while stirring until thick.

It came out so well that when I saw a bag of limes for 99 cents
yesterday, I bought them. As I typed, I was thinking "Awk Scrickle
I'm all out of half-pint canning jars", but the little round half-cup
semi-disposable food containers will be perfect to freeze lime jam in.

Now I have to go back to the store and spend $2.59 on containers.


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
wrote:

>On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
>Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
>in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:
>
>I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
>juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
>holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
>to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)

All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
lemons.
>
>Also, I have no objection to the acid taste, but the ever-present lemon
>contaminant has become objectionable to me.
>
>My grandmother made pectin-free jams and jellies. I always admired her
>for that reason, and many others. Maybe it's now time to try this
>approach. No added pectin and no added lemon juice. Just deseeded
>berries, a lot of sugar and about 13 minutes boiling time. Further
>research is necessary.
>
>Thanks again for your help.

On 09/27/2015 04:35 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
> wrote:
>> I have yet
>> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>
> All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
> lemons.

You're absolutely right, Boron. I was assuming all lemon juice,
especially fresh lemon juice, has the same acidity.

On Sunday, 27 September 2015 18:31:17 UTC-4, Whirled Peas wrote:
> On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
> > Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
> Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
> in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:
>
> I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
> juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
> holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>
> Also, I have no objection to the acid taste, but the ever-present lemon
> contaminant has become objectionable to me.
>
> My grandmother made pectin-free jams and jellies. I always admired her
> for that reason, and many others. Maybe it's now time to try this
> approach. No added pectin and no added lemon juice. Just deseeded
> berries, a lot of sugar and about 13 minutes boiling time. Further
> research is necessary.
>
> Thanks again for your help.

Here's some grist for the mill, from Putting Food By:

Citric acid. Pure crystalline citric acid, USP (meaning 'United States Pharmacopoeia' and therefore of uniform stability and quality), is the acid added in canning tomatoes when bottled lemon juice is not used. If you buy it as 'sour salt' or 'lemon salt,' that is, as coarse crystals, crush it to the consistency of finely granulated sugar before measuring. It is not expensive--especially when you consider that 4 ounces will do about 45 quarts, or slightly more than 90 pints of tomatoes. Citric acid is preferred for increasing acid-strength of foods because it does not contribute flavor of its own to food (unlike lemon juice and vinegars, which can alter flavor if used in large enough amounts). Fine citric acid may be substituted for a 5-percent acid solution (the average for store-bought vinegar or for the juice of most lemons) whenever the called-for measurements of the solutions are by the spoonful, in this general proportion: 1/4 teaspoon citric-acid powder = a generous 1 tablespoon of 5-percent lemon juice/vinegar; 1/2 teaspoon citric-acid powder = a generous 2 tablespoons of the vinegar or lemon juice. (The equivalents actually are 1/4 = 4 teaspoons, and 1/2 = 8 teaspoons, but 1 and 2 tablespoons are easier measurements to make in the usual household's kitchen.) To reverse the coin and make a 5-percent solution of citric acid, use the rule of thumb for making salt brines: dissolve 1 part fine citric acid in 19 parts of boiled (and cooled) water. Translated into measurements used in the average kitchen, this means dissolving 2 tablespoons fine citric acid in 1 pint (2 cups) of boiled water; or, if you want to be metric, dissolving 30 mL of fine citric acid crystals in 1/2 liter (500 mL) of boiled water. Either translation will produce a solution around 6 percent instead of 5--but the result will serve the purpose we're after." ( Janet Greene, Ruth Hertzberg, Beatrice Vaughan. Putting Food By. New York: Penguin. 2010. Page 40. )

On 2015-09-26 17:52:16 +0000, Whirled Peas said:

> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems
> I'm really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too
> noticeable to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin
> package insert exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary,
> bCitric ut now the lemon juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something
> flavor-neutral I can safely substitute for the lemon juice?

Citric acid. Ball sells it. Mrs. Wages sells it. May be called "sour
salt" in some places. I rarely use lemon juice for the reason you
mention €” the taste. The citric acid contributes to the gel without
the lemon flavor. Good luck.

--
--
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 2015-09-26 19:29:38 +0000, songbird said:

> Whirled Peas wrote:
>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>
>> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
>> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
>> really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
>> to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
>> exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
>> juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
>> substitute for the lemon juice?
>
> ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or citric acid are common
> acidifiers along with distilled vinegar or any of the
> other vinegars.
>
>
> songbird

I've never seen a recommendation for using ascorbic acid in jam; I use
citric acid instead of lemon juice.

--
--
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 2015-09-26 20:16:56 +0000, gloria p said:

> On 9/26/2015 1:29 PM, songbird wrote:
>> Whirled Peas wrote:
>>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>>
>>> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
>>> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems I'm
>>> really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too noticeable
>>> to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin package insert
>>> exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary, but now the lemon
>>> juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something flavor-neutral I can safely
>>> substitute for the lemon juice?
>>
>> ascorbic acid (vitamin C) or citric acid are common
>> acidifiers along with distilled vinegar or any of the
>> other vinegars.
>>
>>
>> songbird
>>
>
>
> But any of them will add the same acid flavor as lemon juice.
>
> gloria p

Acid "bite" but not lemon "flavor."

--
--
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 2015-09-27 22:31:10 +0000, Whirled Peas said:

> On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>
> Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
> in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:
>
> I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
> juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
> holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>
> Also, I have no objection to the acid taste, but the ever-present lemon
> contaminant has become objectionable to me.
>
> My grandmother made pectin-free jams and jellies. I always admired her
> for that reason, and many others. Maybe it's now time to try this
> approach. No added pectin and no added lemon juice. Just deseeded
> berries, a lot of sugar and about 13 minutes boiling time. Further
> research is necessary.
>
> Thanks again for your help.

For acidifying tomatoes, one uses 1/2 tsp citric acid or 2 tablespoons
bottled lemon juice per quart of tomato product. Those are the numbers
I use when making jam that calls for lemon juice.
--
--
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 2015-09-27 23:35:42 +0000, Boron Elgar said:

> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
> wrote:
>
>> On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
>>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>
>> Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
>> in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:
>>
>> I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
>> juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
>> holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
>> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>
> All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
> lemons.

The recommendations for using lemon juice in tomato "stuff" or in jams
and jellies, Gloria, are for bottled lemon juice for its consistent
acid level.

<snip>

----
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 2015-09-28 00:40:09 +0000, Whirled Peas said:

> On 09/27/2015 04:35 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
>> wrote:
>>> I have yet
>>> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>>> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>>> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>>
>> All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
>> lemons.
>
> You're absolutely right, Boron. I was assuming all lemon juice,
> especially fresh lemon juice, has the same acidity.

I don't think that's what she said. Bottled lemon juice is
consistently the same level of acidity; there is a greater possibility
of variance in fresh lemon juice.
--
--
Barb
www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013

On 10/2/2015 6:39 PM, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> On 2015-09-26 17:52:16 +0000, Whirled Peas said:
>
>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>
>> I've been making blackberry jam for years using the feral blackberries
>> on my property. Lately I've gotten cold on the idea because it seems
>> I'm really making lemon-blackberry jam. The taste of lemon is too
>> noticeable to be tasty any more. I have always followed the pectin
>> package insert exactly and have no doubt some acidity is necessary,
>> bCitric ut now the lemon juice seems a cheap hack. Is there something
>> flavor-neutral I can safely substitute for the lemon juice?
>
> Citric acid. Ball sells it. Mrs. Wages sells it. May be called "sour
> salt" in some places. I rarely use lemon juice for the reason you
> mention €” the taste. The citric acid contributes to the gel without the
> lemon flavor. Good luck.
>



I have been able to buy it in bulk (still not cheap) from Savory Spice
Shop to use in preserving, cooking, and as a dishwasher additive to
prevent lime (hard water) clouding on glasses (cheaper than Lemi-Shine.)

gloria p

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:47:32 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>On 2015-09-27 23:35:42 +0000, Boron Elgar said:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 09/26/2015 10:52 AM, Whirled Peas wrote:
>>>> Is there any neutral substitute for lemon juice in jam?
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your replies. They are exactly what I was hoping for
>>> in order to organize my thoughts. A few follow-up comments:
>>>
>>> I suspected that citric acid would probably substitute for the lemon
>>> juice. It's the acidity that counts, not the lemon flavor. What's been
>>> holding me up on this is not knowing the exact equivalence. I have yet
>>> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>>> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>>> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>>
>> All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
>> lemons.
>
>The recommendations for using lemon juice in tomato "stuff" or in jams
>and jellies, Gloria, are for bottled lemon juice for its consistent
>acid level.
>
><snip>
>
>----
>Barb
>www.barbschaller.com, last update April 2013


Exactly...just like checking which vinegar one buys to be sure it's 5%
acidity.

On Fri, 2 Oct 2015 19:48:44 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>On 2015-09-28 00:40:09 +0000, Whirled Peas said:
>
>> On 09/27/2015 04:35 PM, Boron Elgar wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 15:31:10 -0700, Whirled Peas >
>>> wrote:
>>>> I have yet
>>>> to find a simple claim to the effect of "2 Tbsp. lemon juice equals 1/2
>>>> tsp. citric acid powder." (I made up the numbers; I have no idea what
>>>> they actually are. Please feel free to correct me.)
>>>
>>> All you would get is an estimate, as acidity varies so greatly among
>>> lemons.
>>
>> You're absolutely right, Boron. I was assuming all lemon juice,
>> especially fresh lemon juice, has the same acidity.
>
>I don't think that's what she said. Bottled lemon juice is
>consistently the same level of acidity; there is a greater possibility
>of variance in fresh lemon juice.
>--

Yup.

On Sun, 27 Sep 2015 20:21:13 -0300, Joy Beeson
> wrote:

> Now I have to go back to the store and spend $2.59 on containers.

I am extremely unhappy with the new lids for Glad's "mini-round"
containers.

First, the convolutions are much deeper and harder to clean. Then the
new lids take up at least twice as much room in the cupboard as the
old lids. Then I have to pry them off the stack when I want to use
them. Then I discovered that they trap an *enormous* air space over
the food -- a substantial fraction of the capacity of the container.

But the kicker came when I put the filled containers away: the old
containers sat in a depression on the lid and one could stack them in
the fridge. The new lids have a flat spot, so one can set one
container on another, but it's way above the rim of the lid, so two
high is about as far as I dared to go.

A truly weird design for one that's advertised as being "for better
organization".


--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

On Fri, 09 Oct 2015 16:07:13 -0300, Joy Beeson
> wrote:

> I am extremely unhappy with the new lids for Glad's "mini-round"
> containers.

When I last bought translucent cups, I found next to them "Diamond[TM]
Daily[TM] MINI CUPS MULTI-PURPOSE" and I like them better than Glad
minis in every respect. They have flat stackable lids, they cost USD
2.99 for fifty, and you don't have to wash them before using.

Shame they hold only two ounces. I won't be using them to put up
lemon jam, but they are bound to find a use. DH said he might want
some for screws and nuts, and I might someday pack a lunch.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.