Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default Crabapple juice II (very long)

I picked some more crabapples a few days ago, then left them in the
plastic grocery bag in the cab of my truck. When I went to retrieve
them yesterday, they had deteriorated quite a bit. But they didn't look
moldy or smell like vinegar, so I decided to juice them -- for practice
if nothing else. My last atempt to juice crabapples was disasterous.

Someone told me a that an old book on preserving said you could get 2 or
3 extractions from crabapples and they would all make good jelly,
although only the first extraction would be clear. So I figured I could
add a lot more water on that first (and only) extraction. I rinse the
apples and picked out the leaves, then dumped them in a stainless steel
stockpot. Instead of adding a cup of water per pound like I did last
time, I covered these with water, plus another 1/2". I simmered them
about half an hour, then mashed them with a potato masher. The potato
masher didn't work all that well because some of these apples were too
small. I got out my large sieve and started scooping up the cooked
apples and mashing them through the seive with the back of a spoon.
That worked very well, better than using a food mill. I discarded a lot
of the stems and seeds and skins this way and had a pot of juicy
applesauce with some stray seeds and stems in it.

It took a little experimenting, but I came up with what I think is a
pretty good way to strain the juice. I used a square of muslin for the
jelly bag. I dampened it with water, and stuffed it into a Tupperware
pitcher to make a bag, then poured in a most of the sauce (it wouldn't
all fit.) I gathered the ends of the cloth together and pulled it up
out the pitcher to drip. It was running kind of slow, so after a few
minutes I squeezed it a little, but it was too hot. I poured the
contents of the bag back into the pot. There was maybe 1/2 cup of juice
in the pitcher. I decided to do smaller batches. I put about a half of
the sauce back in the bag and let it drip; when it was cool enough to
handle I squeezed it -- gently at first, but at the end I squeezed it
really hard by twisting the top of the bag tightly until I was afraid
the muslin might tear. I discarded the damp ball of seeds and pulp and
loaded up the bag again with about half the remaining sauce. Repeat.
Then I dumped all the juice I had collected back into the pot and heated
the slurry back up again. I poured all the stuff into the bag and
hanged it from a skyhook to drip overnight. This morning, perfect
juice. (I did squeeze the bag gently this morning to collect a little
more juice from it. If it were coarser cloth I wouldn't have squeezed it.)

In summary, here's the trick for fruit that's hard to juice: Squeeze
most of the cooked fruit hard to get a lot of cloudy juice fairly
quickly. Pour the cloudy juice back into the reserved cooked fruit,
heat it back up, and drip it overnight just by gravity.

Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add Certo
and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which is
supposed to taste better.

Bob
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Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >, zxcvbob
> wrote:

>> Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add
>> Certo and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which
>> is supposed to taste better.

>


> Bob


You sure work hard.
I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> An update on 9/2/04; check the Fairs Fare tab.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Melba's Jammin'
 
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In article >, zxcvbob
> wrote:

>> Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add
>> Certo and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which
>> is supposed to taste better.

>


> Bob


You sure work hard.
I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> An update on 9/2/04; check the Fairs Fare tab.

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

>
> You sure work hard.


Ha. I've got you fooled.

> I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
> I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
> it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
> recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
> because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.


There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

> And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
> with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
> was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
> batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
> cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
>
> Let the games begin!


Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
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Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

>
> You sure work hard.


Ha. I've got you fooled.

> I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
> I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
> it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
> recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
> because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.


There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

> And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
> with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
> was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
> batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
> cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
>
> Let the games begin!


Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
George Shirley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>>
>> You sure work hard.

>
>
> Ha. I've got you fooled.
>
>> I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
>> I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I
>> read it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division)
>> - recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
>> because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

>
>
> There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
> before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
> it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
> steam up the house.
>
>> And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
>> with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to
>> cost) was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a
>> different batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups
>> juice to 7 cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
>>
>> Let the games begin!

>
>
> Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
>
> I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
>
> This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
> data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
> talking like Dilbert again]
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob


If'n we made us some crab jelly down here it would have to be made of
Atlantic blue crabs. No such thing as a crab apple down here with usn's.

Did pick the last of the pear crop today, gonna make some pear conserve
for the Old Bat's best friend, another whacko artist who is fond of
weird foods. I sure don't like it when the OB is off from school and
clutters up my kitchen. Oh well, it's way to late to get rid of her now.
<VBG>

George

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
George Shirley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob wrote:
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>>
>> You sure work hard.

>
>
> Ha. I've got you fooled.
>
>> I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
>> I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I
>> read it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division)
>> - recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
>> because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

>
>
> There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
> before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
> it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
> steam up the house.
>
>> And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
>> with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to
>> cost) was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a
>> different batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups
>> juice to 7 cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
>>
>> Let the games begin!

>
>
> Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
>
> I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
>
> This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
> data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
> talking like Dilbert again]
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob


If'n we made us some crab jelly down here it would have to be made of
Atlantic blue crabs. No such thing as a crab apple down here with usn's.

Did pick the last of the pear crop today, gonna make some pear conserve
for the Old Bat's best friend, another whacko artist who is fond of
weird foods. I sure don't like it when the OB is off from school and
clutters up my kitchen. Oh well, it's way to late to get rid of her now.
<VBG>

George

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William R. Watt
 
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How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

--
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William R. Watt
 
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How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
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William R. Watt
 
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How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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William R. Watt
 
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On the subject of not clear juice, I've found that leaving it in a jar in
the 'fridge for a few days makes some of the sediment settle out on the
bottom. Pouring slowly from the jar leaves most of it at the bottom.
There's sediment even on the bottom of jars containing "clear" juice.

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William R. Watt
 
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On the subject of not clear juice, I've found that leaving it in a jar in
the 'fridge for a few days makes some of the sediment settle out on the
bottom. Pouring slowly from the jar leaves most of it at the bottom.
There's sediment even on the bottom of jars containing "clear" juice.

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zxcvbob
 
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William R. Watt wrote:
> How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
> in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
> concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
> earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
> the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
> about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
> pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
> test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
> just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
> or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.
>


Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.

Thanks,
Bob
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
William R. Watt
 
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zxcvbob ) writes:

> Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
> but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.


the free Dept of Agriculture booklet on how to make jelly says NOT
isopropyl. has to be ethyl (ethanol). I couldn't find ethyl until I asked
a pharmacist. they keep hidden away behind the counter, I guess to keep
winos from killing themselves by drinking it. it's the same alcohol as in
liquor and added to gasoline but "denatured" so it's poinsonous to drink.
I got a very small plastic bottle for about $3 last year and only used a
bit so far. I fish each glob of solidified juice out and keep using the
small amount in the shot glass, then at the end of a jelly making session
pour it back into the plastic bottle. So hardly any gets used up.

the ethanol I have is 95%. the bookelt doesn't say anything about
concentreation, just rubbing alcohol. (Across the Ottawa River in Quebec
liquor stores you can buy bottles of 80% pure ethanol fit for human
consumption. It can be used for preserving and for extracting herb
essences. I haven't gone over to look at it but I assume the price would
be much lower by volume than the rubbing alcohol.)

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William R. Watt
 
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zxcvbob ) writes:

> Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
> but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.


the free Dept of Agriculture booklet on how to make jelly says NOT
isopropyl. has to be ethyl (ethanol). I couldn't find ethyl until I asked
a pharmacist. they keep hidden away behind the counter, I guess to keep
winos from killing themselves by drinking it. it's the same alcohol as in
liquor and added to gasoline but "denatured" so it's poinsonous to drink.
I got a very small plastic bottle for about $3 last year and only used a
bit so far. I fish each glob of solidified juice out and keep using the
small amount in the shot glass, then at the end of a jelly making session
pour it back into the plastic bottle. So hardly any gets used up.

the ethanol I have is 95%. the bookelt doesn't say anything about
concentreation, just rubbing alcohol. (Across the Ottawa River in Quebec
liquor stores you can buy bottles of 80% pure ethanol fit for human
consumption. It can be used for preserving and for extracting herb
essences. I haven't gone over to look at it but I assume the price would
be much lower by volume than the rubbing alcohol.)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kathi
 
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zxcvbob > wrote in message >...
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >
> > You sure work hard.

>
> Ha. I've got you fooled.
>
> > I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
> > I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
> > it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
> > recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
> > because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

>
> There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
> before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
> it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
> steam up the house.
>
> > And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
> > with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
> > was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
> > batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
> > cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
> >
> > Let the games begin!

>
> Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
>
> I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
>
> This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
> data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
> talking like Dilbert again]
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob



I curious to see how your experiment turns out. I did pretty much the
same thing to get the juice from my crabapples. But the juice is high
in natural pectin (was jelling outside the jelly bag), so I'm not sure
yet how I will proceed. I too, prefer the quick cook, added pectin
taste, but I'm afraid that if I add pectin to something that already
has lots of it, I'll end up with sweet crabapple tasting cement.
However, I don't want to long cook, because it will change the taste
and colour. So it's all frozen for now, 'cause I'm not sure what to
do next.

So let me/us know how it turns out. Perhaps I'll learn from your
mistakes, er, success ;-)

Kathi
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kathi
 
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zxcvbob > wrote in message >...
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >
> > You sure work hard.

>
> Ha. I've got you fooled.
>
> > I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
> > I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
> > it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
> > recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
> > because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

>
> There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
> before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
> it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
> steam up the house.
>
> > And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
> > with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
> > was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
> > batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
> > cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
> >
> > Let the games begin!

>
> Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
>
> I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
>
> This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
> data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
> talking like Dilbert again]
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob



I curious to see how your experiment turns out. I did pretty much the
same thing to get the juice from my crabapples. But the juice is high
in natural pectin (was jelling outside the jelly bag), so I'm not sure
yet how I will proceed. I too, prefer the quick cook, added pectin
taste, but I'm afraid that if I add pectin to something that already
has lots of it, I'll end up with sweet crabapple tasting cement.
However, I don't want to long cook, because it will change the taste
and colour. So it's all frozen for now, 'cause I'm not sure what to
do next.

So let me/us know how it turns out. Perhaps I'll learn from your
mistakes, er, success ;-)

Kathi
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Kathi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob > wrote in message >...
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> >
> > You sure work hard.

>
> Ha. I've got you fooled.
>
> > I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
> > I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
> > it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
> > recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
> > because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

>
> There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
> before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
> it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
> steam up the house.
>
> > And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
> > with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
> > was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
> > batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
> > cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.
> >
> > Let the games begin!

>
> Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
>
> I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
>
> This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
> data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
> talking like Dilbert again]
>
> Best regards, :-)
> Bob



I curious to see how your experiment turns out. I did pretty much the
same thing to get the juice from my crabapples. But the juice is high
in natural pectin (was jelling outside the jelly bag), so I'm not sure
yet how I will proceed. I too, prefer the quick cook, added pectin
taste, but I'm afraid that if I add pectin to something that already
has lots of it, I'll end up with sweet crabapple tasting cement.
However, I don't want to long cook, because it will change the taste
and colour. So it's all frozen for now, 'cause I'm not sure what to
do next.

So let me/us know how it turns out. Perhaps I'll learn from your
mistakes, er, success ;-)

Kathi
  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Kathi ) writes:

> I curious to see how your experiment turns out. I did pretty much the
> same thing to get the juice from my crabapples. But the juice is high
> in natural pectin (was jelling outside the jelly bag), so I'm not sure
> yet how I will proceed. I too, prefer the quick cook, added pectin
> taste, but I'm afraid that if I add pectin to something that already
> has lots of it, I'll end up with sweet crabapple tasting cement.
> However, I don't want to long cook, because it will change the taste
> and colour. So it's all frozen for now, 'cause I'm not sure what to
> do next.


I'm experimenting with a dozen different wild fruit and berry juices this
year. My approach is to do test samples yielding about 1 cup of jelly.
When I get a good sample I can make more of the same.



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  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Joneses
 
Posts: n/a
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Kathi wrote:

> > Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
> > it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
> > with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
> > much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
> > but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
> > heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.
> > I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
> > pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
> > anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
> > on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.
> > Bob

>
> I curious to see how your experiment turns out. I did pretty much the
> same thing to get the juice from my crabapples. But the juice is high
> in natural pectin (was jelling outside the jelly bag), so I'm not sure
> yet how I will proceed. I too, prefer the quick cook, added pectin
> taste, but I'm afraid that if I add pectin to something that already
> has lots of it, I'll end up with sweet crabapple tasting cement.
> However, I don't want to long cook, because it will change the taste
> and colour. So it's all frozen for now, 'cause I'm not sure what to
> do next.
> So let me/us know how it turns out. Perhaps I'll learn from your
> mistakes, er, success ;-)
> Kathi


I found that the high pectin quinces when juiced with the seeds, etc. jell up very
quickly with no added pectin. The boil time was about 12 minutes. I did boil on high,
stirring constantly and never missed a lick. Even with pectin ya gotta boil it some, and
this wasn't hours by a long shot. The taste was still great.
Edrena






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William R. Watt
 
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If you suspect the pectin content is too high you could water the juice down.

I'd mix a cup of juice with a cup of water, bring to a boil, and test for
pectin. If there is sufficient pectin an even more diluted solution could
be tried until it fails the pectin test. Then boil and test every
couple of minutes until it passes the pectin test again. Then measure how
much liquid is left from which the amount boiled off can be calculated and
the optimum dilution of the juice determined.

I have a similar situation where the red sumac juice I got this year is
much darker (more concetrated) than last year; the jelly is dark and
strong tasting instead of the nice light colour and taste of last year;
and it leaves an unpleasant aftertaste of astringency on the toungue. This
year's juice is going to have to be diluted with tap water.


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  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
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William R. Watt wrote:
> If you suspect the pectin content is too high you could water the juice down.
>
> I'd mix a cup of juice with a cup of water, bring to a boil, and test for
> pectin. If there is sufficient pectin an even more diluted solution could
> be tried until it fails the pectin test. Then boil and test every
> couple of minutes until it passes the pectin test again. Then measure how
> much liquid is left from which the amount boiled off can be calculated and
> the optimum dilution of the juice determined.
>
> I have a similar situation where the red sumac juice I got this year is
> much darker (more concetrated) than last year; the jelly is dark and
> strong tasting instead of the nice light colour and taste of last year;
> and it leaves an unpleasant aftertaste of astringency on the toungue. This
> year's juice is going to have to be diluted with tap water.
>



Have you thought about diluting it with reconstituted frozen apple
juice? It's insipid enough to blend with anything, and it will cut the
astringency. I use commercial apple juice to make up the difference
when I'm a little bit short on whatever juice I'm really using.

Bob
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

William R. Watt wrote:
> If you suspect the pectin content is too high you could water the juice down.
>
> I'd mix a cup of juice with a cup of water, bring to a boil, and test for
> pectin. If there is sufficient pectin an even more diluted solution could
> be tried until it fails the pectin test. Then boil and test every
> couple of minutes until it passes the pectin test again. Then measure how
> much liquid is left from which the amount boiled off can be calculated and
> the optimum dilution of the juice determined.
>
> I have a similar situation where the red sumac juice I got this year is
> much darker (more concetrated) than last year; the jelly is dark and
> strong tasting instead of the nice light colour and taste of last year;
> and it leaves an unpleasant aftertaste of astringency on the toungue. This
> year's juice is going to have to be diluted with tap water.
>



Have you thought about diluting it with reconstituted frozen apple
juice? It's insipid enough to blend with anything, and it will cut the
astringency. I use commercial apple juice to make up the difference
when I'm a little bit short on whatever juice I'm really using.

Bob
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