Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 03:07 PM
zxcvbob
 
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Default Crabapple juice II (very long)

I picked some more crabapples a few days ago, then left them in the
plastic grocery bag in the cab of my truck. When I went to retrieve
them yesterday, they had deteriorated quite a bit. But they didn't look
moldy or smell like vinegar, so I decided to juice them -- for practice
if nothing else. My last atempt to juice crabapples was disasterous.

Someone told me a that an old book on preserving said you could get 2 or
3 extractions from crabapples and they would all make good jelly,
although only the first extraction would be clear. So I figured I could
add a lot more water on that first (and only) extraction. I rinse the
apples and picked out the leaves, then dumped them in a stainless steel
stockpot. Instead of adding a cup of water per pound like I did last
time, I covered these with water, plus another 1/2". I simmered them
about half an hour, then mashed them with a potato masher. The potato
masher didn't work all that well because some of these apples were too
small. I got out my large sieve and started scooping up the cooked
apples and mashing them through the seive with the back of a spoon.
That worked very well, better than using a food mill. I discarded a lot
of the stems and seeds and skins this way and had a pot of juicy
applesauce with some stray seeds and stems in it.

It took a little experimenting, but I came up with what I think is a
pretty good way to strain the juice. I used a square of muslin for the
jelly bag. I dampened it with water, and stuffed it into a Tupperware
pitcher to make a bag, then poured in a most of the sauce (it wouldn't
all fit.) I gathered the ends of the cloth together and pulled it up
out the pitcher to drip. It was running kind of slow, so after a few
minutes I squeezed it a little, but it was too hot. I poured the
contents of the bag back into the pot. There was maybe 1/2 cup of juice
in the pitcher. I decided to do smaller batches. I put about a half of
the sauce back in the bag and let it drip; when it was cool enough to
handle I squeezed it -- gently at first, but at the end I squeezed it
really hard by twisting the top of the bag tightly until I was afraid
the muslin might tear. I discarded the damp ball of seeds and pulp and
loaded up the bag again with about half the remaining sauce. Repeat.
Then I dumped all the juice I had collected back into the pot and heated
the slurry back up again. I poured all the stuff into the bag and
hanged it from a skyhook to drip overnight. This morning, perfect
juice. (I did squeeze the bag gently this morning to collect a little
more juice from it. If it were coarser cloth I wouldn't have squeezed it.)

In summary, here's the trick for fruit that's hard to juice: Squeeze
most of the cooked fruit hard to get a lot of cloudy juice fairly
quickly. Pour the cloudy juice back into the reserved cooked fruit,
heat it back up, and drip it overnight just by gravity.

Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add Certo
and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which is
supposed to taste better.

Bob

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Old 06-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , zxcvbob
wrote:

Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add
Certo and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which
is supposed to taste better.



Bob


You sure work hard.
I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!
--
-Barb, www.jamlady.eboard.com An update on 9/2/04; check the Fairs Fare tab.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:06 PM
Melba's Jammin'
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article , zxcvbob
wrote:

Now I gotta decide if I want to use the long boil method, or add
Certo and lots more sugar, so I get more jelly. I'm not sure which
is supposed to taste better.



Bob


You sure work hard.
I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!
--
-Barb, www.jamlady.eboard.com An update on 9/2/04; check the Fairs Fare tab.

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:28 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:


You sure work hard.


Ha. I've got you fooled.

I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.


There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!


Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:28 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Melba's Jammin' wrote:


You sure work hard.


Ha. I've got you fooled.

I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I read
it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division) -
recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.


There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to cost)
was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a different
batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups juice to 7
cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!


Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:41 PM
George Shirley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob wrote:
Melba's Jammin' wrote:


You sure work hard.



Ha. I've got you fooled.

I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I
read it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division)
- recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.



There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to
cost) was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a
different batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups
juice to 7 cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!



Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob


If'n we made us some crab jelly down here it would have to be made of
Atlantic blue crabs. No such thing as a crab apple down here with usn's.

Did pick the last of the pear crop today, gonna make some pear conserve
for the Old Bat's best friend, another whacko artist who is fond of
weird foods. I sure don't like it when the OB is off from school and
clutters up my kitchen. Oh well, it's way to late to get rid of her now.
VBG

George

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2004, 04:41 PM
George Shirley
 
Posts: n/a
Default

zxcvbob wrote:
Melba's Jammin' wrote:


You sure work hard.



Ha. I've got you fooled.

I've got my asbestos skivvies on so any replies won't be bothering me:
I read "somewhere" - sure wish I'd paid more attention to where I
read it (I"d venture to say it was from some Unis extension division)
- recently that stuff made with added pectin tastes better (fresher?)
because of the quick cook. I'm inclined to agree. My opinion.



There are crabapples everywhere here this year. I've never seen so many
before. I'll pick some more and try using the steam juicer and see how
it does. I didn't want to run the steamer for 2 hours last night and
steam up the house.

And as I said in my email, I did both ways this summer and the stuff
with the Ball Fruit Jell powder (I've given up on Sure?Jell due to
cost) was better and won the 4th Place ribbon. It was also from a
different batch of juice than the stuff I did long-cook. Five cups
juice to 7 cups sugar for 8 (?) half-pint jars.

Let the games begin!



Adding the sugar and boiling for hours will concentrate the flavors, but
it will drive off any aroma and subtle flavor notes. Quick jelly made
with added pectin will be less concentrated juice but won't be cooked as
much. A good compromise might be using the long-boil-no-pectin method,
but do small batches and cook them in a non-stick wok over very high
heat -- so the jelly cooks up in just a few minutes.

I like berry jams and jellies better when they are made with added
pectin. When they are cooked for hours, they don't taste like much
anymore except sweet, sour, and purple. I don't really have an opinion
on apple jellies yet cuz I don't have enough experience with them.

This is such an opinionated bunch of folks, I figured I'd get lots of
data points to add to the experimenting that I am doing. [damn, I'm
talking like Dilbert again]

Best regards, :-)
Bob


If'n we made us some crab jelly down here it would have to be made of
Atlantic blue crabs. No such thing as a crab apple down here with usn's.

Did pick the last of the pear crop today, gonna make some pear conserve
for the Old Bat's best friend, another whacko artist who is fond of
weird foods. I sure don't like it when the OB is off from school and
clutters up my kitchen. Oh well, it's way to late to get rid of her now.
VBG

George

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-09-2004, 12:24 AM
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

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Old 07-09-2004, 12:24 AM
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
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Old 07-09-2004, 12:24 AM
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.

You might have a problem with the soft fruit. Pectin is what makes fruit
firm. As fruit ripens pectin is converted to sugar and the fruit gets
soft. So soft fruit, less pectin. I actually use green apples and
crabapples for pectin, before the seeds turn brown. I picked in late July.
(My 'fridge is packed with old jam jars full of fruit juices).

It's been a nice summer for fruit here too, and grass. There was
sufficient rain that the lawns never dried out and turned brown, very
unusual. It would have been nice to have a dry spell before harvest to
bump up the sugar content of the fruit.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned


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Old 07-09-2004, 12:45 AM
William R. Watt
 
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On the subject of not clear juice, I've found that leaving it in a jar in
the 'fridge for a few days makes some of the sediment settle out on the
bottom. Pouring slowly from the jar leaves most of it at the bottom.
There's sediment even on the bottom of jars containing "clear" juice.

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Old 07-09-2004, 12:45 AM
William R. Watt
 
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On the subject of not clear juice, I've found that leaving it in a jar in
the 'fridge for a few days makes some of the sediment settle out on the
bottom. Pouring slowly from the jar leaves most of it at the bottom.
There's sediment even on the bottom of jars containing "clear" juice.

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Old 07-09-2004, 03:29 AM
zxcvbob
 
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William R. Watt wrote:
How long you have to boil down the juice depends on how concentrated it is
in the first place. You only have to boil down to get sufficient pectin
concentration which you can test for using ethyl rubbing alcohol. I wrote
earlier that I put just half a tsp of the alchol in a shot glass and when
the juice comes to a boil drip 3 drops into the alchohol and jiggle it
about a bit. If it forms a glob in under 30 seconds there is sufficient
pectin concentration. If it does not form a glob boil a minute longer and
test again and repeat until it does. I get a glob the first try. Then
just add sugar and boil to "cook" the sugar. Regardless if pectin is added
or not the sugar boil, I assume, will be the same.


Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.

Thanks,
Bob
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-09-2004, 03:37 PM
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


zxcvbob ) writes:

Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.


the free Dept of Agriculture booklet on how to make jelly says NOT
isopropyl. has to be ethyl (ethanol). I couldn't find ethyl until I asked
a pharmacist. they keep hidden away behind the counter, I guess to keep
winos from killing themselves by drinking it. it's the same alcohol as in
liquor and added to gasoline but "denatured" so it's poinsonous to drink.
I got a very small plastic bottle for about $3 last year and only used a
bit so far. I fish each glob of solidified juice out and keep using the
small amount in the shot glass, then at the end of a jelly making session
pour it back into the plastic bottle. So hardly any gets used up.

the ethanol I have is 95%. the bookelt doesn't say anything about
concentreation, just rubbing alcohol. (Across the Ottawa River in Quebec
liquor stores you can buy bottles of 80% pure ethanol fit for human
consumption. It can be used for preserving and for extracting herb
essences. I haven't gone over to look at it but I assume the price would
be much lower by volume than the rubbing alcohol.)

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Old 07-09-2004, 03:37 PM
William R. Watt
 
Posts: n/a
Default


zxcvbob ) writes:

Does 91% isopropyl alcohol work? It's not as easy to find as the 70%,
but easier to find and cheaper than any appropriate form of ethanol.


the free Dept of Agriculture booklet on how to make jelly says NOT
isopropyl. has to be ethyl (ethanol). I couldn't find ethyl until I asked
a pharmacist. they keep hidden away behind the counter, I guess to keep
winos from killing themselves by drinking it. it's the same alcohol as in
liquor and added to gasoline but "denatured" so it's poinsonous to drink.
I got a very small plastic bottle for about $3 last year and only used a
bit so far. I fish each glob of solidified juice out and keep using the
small amount in the shot glass, then at the end of a jelly making session
pour it back into the plastic bottle. So hardly any gets used up.

the ethanol I have is 95%. the bookelt doesn't say anything about
concentreation, just rubbing alcohol. (Across the Ottawa River in Quebec
liquor stores you can buy bottles of 80% pure ethanol fit for human
consumption. It can be used for preserving and for extracting herb
essences. I haven't gone over to look at it but I assume the price would
be much lower by volume than the rubbing alcohol.)

--
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homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned


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