Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> > Is it bad to submerge jars in a large pot? like not hot enough?

>
> No, many of us do it that way. For example: BWB canning, I start the
> jars in the canner while I'm messing with getting things ready to can,
> pints are completely covered, quarts not so much. After a few times you
> learn just how much water to heat the jars up to ready them for use and
> yet not overflow the canner when the filled jars are put back into it.


And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper
level. :-0)

(snip)
> George, hit my three score and ten today.

Look out for them banana peels, Jorge! '-0)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>>> Is it bad to submerge jars in a large pot? like not hot enough?

>> No, many of us do it that way. For example: BWB canning, I start the
>> jars in the canner while I'm messing with getting things ready to can,
>> pints are completely covered, quarts not so much. After a few times you
>> learn just how much water to heat the jars up to ready them for use and
>> yet not overflow the canner when the filled jars are put back into it.

>
> And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
> one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper
> level. :-0)


I use that big stainless steel ladle I stole from the Navy mess hall
years ago. It's also helpful if you need to thump someone and can't find
that giant wooden spoon. I hid the ladle when I knew you were coming to
visit to avoid temptation.

>
> (snip)
>> George, hit my three score and ten today.

> Look out for them banana peels, Jorge! '-0)

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On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:27:23 -0500, George Shirley
> wrote:

>George, hit my three score and ten today.


Happy Birthday, you young pup.
It's less than a month to my three score and fifteen.

Ross.
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In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
> > one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper
> > level. :-0)

>
> I use that big stainless steel ladle I stole from the Navy mess hall
> years ago. It's also helpful if you need to thump someone and can't find
> that giant wooden spoon. I hid the ladle when I knew you were coming to
> visit to avoid temptation.
>
> >
> > (snip)
> >> George, hit my three score and ten today.

> > Look out for them banana peels, Jorge! '-0)


You never peeked in my suitcase? "Have Wood Spoons, Will Travel."
Jes' like Paladin. :-0)


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>
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"George Shirley" > wrote in message
news
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> In article >,
>> George Shirley > wrote:
>>
>>>> Is it bad to submerge jars in a large pot? like not hot enough?
>>> No, many of us do it that way. For example: BWB canning, I start the
>>> jars in the canner while I'm messing with getting things ready to can,
>>> pints are completely covered, quarts not so much. After a few times you
>>> learn just how much water to heat the jars up to ready them for use and
>>> yet not overflow the canner when the filled jars are put back into it.

>>
>> And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
>> one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper level.
>> :-0)

>
> I use that big stainless steel ladle I stole from the Navy mess hall years
> ago. It's also helpful if you need to thump someone and can't find that
> giant wooden spoon. I hid the ladle when I knew you were coming to visit
> to avoid temptation.
>



Is that one on those ladles that has the curve on the end so you can hook it
onto the side of the pot and not lose it? I had one from the Army and then
I really liked it and then I found that if you go to a restaurant supply
store, you canbuy them in different sizes (2 ounces, 4 ounces, 8 ounces). I
have a set of them now. Works great for ladling food into jars. Or making
pancakes.

--
-Marilyn




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Marilyn wrote:
> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
> news
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> George Shirley > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Is it bad to submerge jars in a large pot? like not hot enough?
>>>> No, many of us do it that way. For example: BWB canning, I start the
>>>> jars in the canner while I'm messing with getting things ready to can,
>>>> pints are completely covered, quarts not so much. After a few times you
>>>> learn just how much water to heat the jars up to ready them for use and
>>>> yet not overflow the canner when the filled jars are put back into it.
>>> And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
>>> one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper level.
>>> :-0)

>> I use that big stainless steel ladle I stole from the Navy mess hall years
>> ago. It's also helpful if you need to thump someone and can't find that
>> giant wooden spoon. I hid the ladle when I knew you were coming to visit
>> to avoid temptation.
>>

>
>
> Is that one on those ladles that has the curve on the end so you can hook it
> onto the side of the pot and not lose it? I had one from the Army and then
> I really liked it and then I found that if you go to a restaurant supply
> store, you canbuy them in different sizes (2 ounces, 4 ounces, 8 ounces). I
> have a set of them now. Works great for ladling food into jars. Or making
> pancakes.
>

Nope, this one has a straight handle, I also have the large slotted
spoon. Both marked USN and with a gubmint mark on them. Actually bought
them at a GI surplus store for 25 cents each back in the sixties to use
at the deer camp. Had a potato masher, a large spoon without the slots
and a bunch of knives, forks, and tablespoons. Just have three
tablespoons and the ladle and the slotted spoon left. Have no memory of
where the other stuff went, suspect the kids took it out to play with
when they were little and they ended up buried somewhere on the ten
acres we lived on then. All the GI stuff I had was WWII surplus. Our
scout troop used to buy GI shelter halves, two of which make a pup tent.
We paid something like fifty cents for the two. I really liked mine, it
had very obvious bullet holes in it that had been sewn up and mended.
Used to buy surplus Navy kites, had a Japanese airplane painted on the,
were nylon and about six feet or more tall by three feet wide. Pulled
them with the old jeep to get them in the air. Ahh, memories.

Would like to have all the cast iron ware back from the deer camp but
someone stole it in one our moves.
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In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> You might want to go to the U of Georgia site and take their online
> course on canning, you get as many tries as it takes to get it right.
> It's pretty good course and you get a neat certificate to print out.
> Some states have Master Preserver qualifications just like they do
> Master Gardener.


I will do just that this winter when life slows down a bit.
When I stated that, I did not believe such a certificate existed.

> Stay with the hobby, learn as much as you can, read all you can, and
> keep asking questions here. Some of us have been canning all of our
> lives. I used to help my parents and grandparents with canning chores
> when I was as young as 8, DW and I started canning in 1965 and still
> garden and can. You're always welcome here.


I am a kid in a candy store. I want to try everything in life
Canning will probably be part of my life as long as I can garden.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
> > One other point of interest from the next to last post is --
> > My manual states that 1.5 inches of water (somewhere 1 to 2 quarts) is
> > to be placed in the bottom of the canner. I could not find in the manual
> > about adding water up to half way up on the jars in my manual. I am
> > using more water than the manual asked for.
> >
> > I found where I got that idea of adding water half way up on the jars.
> > In the holy Bible of canning - Ball's "Complete Book of HOME
> > PRESERVING", page 381.

>
> Actually, it's the Ball Blue Book that is considered to be the home
> preserver's bible. :-0) The big book has been out for only 3 years
> while the BBB has been published since Moses wore kneepants * or at
> least the 1940s. (Susan can tell me if I'm wrong about that.)


More lessons to be learned. Any thunderstorms and lightening bolts in
your area as your were typing that message?


> The BBB on pages 6-7 says "Filled jars sealed with two-piece caps are
> placed in the canner containing approximately 2" of water." That, to
> me, means you put two inches of water in the canner before you put the
> jars in. I don't know if filling the canner with jars will raise the
> level to half the height of the jar.
>
> Excerpted from he
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...s_canners.html
> this is what the NCHFP says about how to do it correctly. Note the
> first point. Note the second paragraph of point nine.


Point nine is where I miss understood and my mistake. I went by the dial
gauge as being completely depressurized not steam venting from the
weight.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Dan L. wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> You might want to go to the U of Georgia site and take their online
>> course on canning, you get as many tries as it takes to get it right.
>> It's pretty good course and you get a neat certificate to print out.
>> Some states have Master Preserver qualifications just like they do
>> Master Gardener.

>
> I will do just that this winter when life slows down a bit.
> When I stated that, I did not believe such a certificate existed.
>
>> Stay with the hobby, learn as much as you can, read all you can, and
>> keep asking questions here. Some of us have been canning all of our
>> lives. I used to help my parents and grandparents with canning chores
>> when I was as young as 8, DW and I started canning in 1965 and still
>> garden and can. You're always welcome here.

>
> I am a kid in a candy store. I want to try everything in life
> Canning will probably be part of my life as long as I can garden.
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan
>

I didn't garden for many years as I was, literally, forced into
servitude in my Mom's garden as a kid. Garden work had to be done before
anything else, including homework.

When I started to garden again in my twenties it became fun and I even
went back to preserving our produce for my family. We still do with
freezers, canning, and a dehydrator.
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In article >,
"Marilyn" > wrote:

> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
> news
> > Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >> In article >,
> >> George Shirley > wrote:
> >>
> >>>> Is it bad to submerge jars in a large pot? like not hot enough?
> >>> No, many of us do it that way. For example: BWB canning, I start the
> >>> jars in the canner while I'm messing with getting things ready to can,
> >>> pints are completely covered, quarts not so much. After a few times you
> >>> learn just how much water to heat the jars up to ready them for use and
> >>> yet not overflow the canner when the filled jars are put back into it.
> >>
> >> And sometimes you remind yourself that it IS handy to have that little
> >> one-quart saucepan at hand to remove some water to make the proper level.
> >> :-0)

> >
> > I use that big stainless steel ladle I stole from the Navy mess hall years
> > ago. It's also helpful if you need to thump someone and can't find that
> > giant wooden spoon. I hid the ladle when I knew you were coming to visit
> > to avoid temptation.
> >

>
>
> Is that one on those ladles that has the curve on the end so you can hook it
> onto the side of the pot and not lose it? I had one from the Army and then
> I really liked it and then I found that if you go to a restaurant supply
> store, you canbuy them in different sizes (2 ounces, 4 ounces, 8 ounces). I
> have a set of them now. Works great for ladling food into jars. Or making
> pancakes.


Several years ago I bought a set of glass measuring cups with spouts and
handles. I found them useful for filling the jars. I have a quart, pint
and half pint measuring cups that filled the jars perfectly with each
scoop and left the correct amount of head space at the top of each jar.
With the exception of the last scoop.

Thanks again for correcting my mistakes.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


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On Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:41:25 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article
>,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
>> One other point of interest from the next to last post is --
>> My manual states that 1.5 inches of water (somewhere 1 to 2 quarts) is
>> to be placed in the bottom of the canner. I could not find in the manual
>> about adding water up to half way up on the jars in my manual. I am
>> using more water than the manual asked for.
>>
>> I found where I got that idea of adding water half way up on the jars.
>> In the holy Bible of canning - Ball's "Complete Book of HOME
>> PRESERVING", page 381.

>
>Actually, it's the Ball Blue Book that is considered to be the home
>preserver's bible. :-0) The big book has been out for only 3 years
>while the BBB has been published since Moses wore kneepants * or at
>least the 1940s. (Susan can tell me if I'm wrong about that.)


The first Ball canning book was in 1911. My oldest one is dated 1913
and titled "The Correct Methods for Preserving Fruit." The first Ball
Blue Book was 1915 "The Ball Blue Book of Canning And Preserving
Receipts." There may be a 1914 book with the title Ball Blue Book.

I need to start checking Ebay again to fill in my collection.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
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On Sep 17, 6:38*pm, "Dan L." > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *smyrnaquince > wrote:
> > On Sep 16, 5:31*pm, "Dan L." > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,

>
> > > *smyrnaquince > wrote:
> > > > I have an old (50 years?) Mirro of the size you mention. *It was sold
> > > > as a pressure cooker/canner. *It has thick aluminum walls and my
> > > > family always used it for pressure canning. *Now, though, I'm not sure
> > > > if I should use it because all the USDA recipes call for the larger
> > > > canners and say that the heat-up and cool-down (both of which are
> > > > untimed) constitute part of the canning process. *The USDA does not
> > > > recommend use of the 8-quart pressure canner.

>
> > > > Is anyone out there using one of these smaller canners?

>
> > > > Dave

>
> > > > On Sep 15, 12:42*am, zxcvbob > wrote:

>
> > > > > Mirro makes a smaller one that holds 7 pint jars; I think it's 8 quart,
> > > > > and it's not tall enough to hold any quart jars. *HTH

>
> > > > > Bob

>
> > > I do not know about the USDA requirements. In the Ball Canning bible the
> > > cooking times are at a given pressure for an alloted time to kill off
> > > the bacteria. Are you sure the heat up and cool down times are a factor
> > > in the killing of the food born bacteria?

>
> > > Cooking longer times might change the taste or texture of the food. I
> > > thought the main goal of pressure cooking was to kill off the bad stuff.
> > > It would seem that once the temperature and pressure got up for the
> > > alloted time would be enough to do its job, regardless of the canners
> > > size.

>
> > > So the USDA is saying smaller pressure canners are bad?
> > > Do you have the article? It would be an interesting read.

>
> > > My canner is a 10.5 quart that holds 4 quart standard jars. So mine
> > > should be good to go. I really cannot imagine a canner smaller than mine.

>
> > > Enjoy Life ... Dan L

>
> > > --
> > > Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.- Hide quoted text -

>
> > > - Show quoted text -

>
> > Well! *I've searched all my saved emails and files. *I could have
> > sworn I had either read in a USDA publication or had correspondence
> > with someone at the USDA that the heat-up and cool-down times were
> > part of the overall processing even though the processing times are
> > only given for the time at pressure. *I can't find anything about that
> > now.

>
> > As Bob said, Mirro has/had an 8-quart (capacity) pressure canner that
> > would hold pint jars, but was not tall enough for quart jars.

>
> > I found the USDA Complete Guide to Home Canning, 2006 revision at
> >http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
> > (where I also discovered that a 2009 version is coming out).

>
> > From Guide 1, pages 13-14:
> > Equipment for heat-processing home-canned food is of two main
> > types&boiling water canners
> > and pressure canners. Most are designed to hold seven quart jars or
> > eight to nine pints. Small
> > pressure canners hold four quart jars; some large pressure canners
> > hold 18 pint jars in two
> > layers, but hold only seven quart jars. Pressure saucepans with
> > smaller volume capacities are
> > not recommended for use in canning. Small capacity pressure canners
> > are treated in a similar
> > manner as standard larger canners, and should be vented using the
> > typical venting
> > procedures.

>
> > Their description of a "small pressure canner" does not seem include
> > ones that can't hold quart jars.

>
> > On the other hand, upon re-reading, I notice on pages 17-18 that they
> > actually give the expect times for pressure build-up (3-5 minutes) and
> > depressurization (30 miutes with pints), so I could compare my
> > canner's perfornance with those times.

>
> > Oh, well. *I guess I am getting old and my memory is failing me!

>
> > Dave

>
> I am 52 and I want those Aricept and Nemenda drugs now
> Still an interesting topic... I am still amazed at the cool down times.
> My canner heats up just as a fast as it cools down.
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>
> --
> Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


What type of canner do you have that cools down so fast?
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In article
>,
wrote:

> On Sep 17, 6:38*pm, "Dan L." > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *smyrnaquince > wrote:
> > > On Sep 16, 5:31*pm, "Dan L." > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,

> >
> > > > *smyrnaquince > wrote:
> > > > > I have an old (50 years?) Mirro of the size you mention. *It was sold
> > > > > as a pressure cooker/canner. *It has thick aluminum walls and my
> > > > > family always used it for pressure canning. *Now, though, I'm not
> > > > > sure
> > > > > if I should use it because all the USDA recipes call for the larger
> > > > > canners and say that the heat-up and cool-down (both of which are
> > > > > untimed) constitute part of the canning process. *The USDA does not
> > > > > recommend use of the 8-quart pressure canner.

> >
> > > > > Is anyone out there using one of these smaller canners?

> >
> > > > > Dave

> >
> > > > > On Sep 15, 12:42*am, zxcvbob > wrote:

> >
> > > > > > Mirro makes a smaller one that holds 7 pint jars; I think it's 8
> > > > > > quart,
> > > > > > and it's not tall enough to hold any quart jars. *HTH

> >
> > > > > > Bob

> >
> > > > I do not know about the USDA requirements. In the Ball Canning bible
> > > > the
> > > > cooking times are at a given pressure for an alloted time to kill off
> > > > the bacteria. Are you sure the heat up and cool down times are a factor
> > > > in the killing of the food born bacteria?

> >
> > > > Cooking longer times might change the taste or texture of the food. I
> > > > thought the main goal of pressure cooking was to kill off the bad
> > > > stuff.
> > > > It would seem that once the temperature and pressure got up for the
> > > > alloted time would be enough to do its job, regardless of the canners
> > > > size.

> >
> > > > So the USDA is saying smaller pressure canners are bad?
> > > > Do you have the article? It would be an interesting read.

> >
> > > > My canner is a 10.5 quart that holds 4 quart standard jars. So mine
> > > > should be good to go. I really cannot imagine a canner smaller than
> > > > mine.

> >
> > > > Enjoy Life ... Dan L

> >
> > > > --
> > > > Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.- Hide quoted text -

> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -

> >
> > > Well! *I've searched all my saved emails and files. *I could have
> > > sworn I had either read in a USDA publication or had correspondence
> > > with someone at the USDA that the heat-up and cool-down times were
> > > part of the overall processing even though the processing times are
> > > only given for the time at pressure. *I can't find anything about that
> > > now.

> >
> > > As Bob said, Mirro has/had an 8-quart (capacity) pressure canner that
> > > would hold pint jars, but was not tall enough for quart jars.

> >
> > > I found the USDA Complete Guide to Home Canning, 2006 revision at
> > >
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...ions_usda.html
> > > (where I also discovered that a 2009 version is coming out).

> >
> > > From Guide 1, pages 13-14:
> > > Equipment for heat-processing home-canned food is of two main
> > > types&boiling water canners
> > > and pressure canners. Most are designed to hold seven quart jars or
> > > eight to nine pints. Small
> > > pressure canners hold four quart jars; some large pressure canners
> > > hold 18 pint jars in two
> > > layers, but hold only seven quart jars. Pressure saucepans with
> > > smaller volume capacities are
> > > not recommended for use in canning. Small capacity pressure canners
> > > are treated in a similar
> > > manner as standard larger canners, and should be vented using the
> > > typical venting
> > > procedures.

> >
> > > Their description of a "small pressure canner" does not seem include
> > > ones that can't hold quart jars.

> >
> > > On the other hand, upon re-reading, I notice on pages 17-18 that they
> > > actually give the expect times for pressure build-up (3-5 minutes) and
> > > depressurization (30 miutes with pints), so I could compare my
> > > canner's perfornance with those times.

> >
> > > Oh, well. *I guess I am getting old and my memory is failing me!

> >
> > > Dave

> >
> > I am 52 and I want those Aricept and Nemenda drugs now
> > Still an interesting topic... I am still amazed at the cool down times.
> > My canner heats up just as a fast as it cools down.
> >
> > Enjoy Life ... Dan L
> >
> > --
> > Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -

>
> What type of canner do you have that cools down so fast?


The answer is within, focus on the the last 5 post.

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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