Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
> > I am the original poster "Dan L".

>
> Understood.
>
> (snipped)
> > 27 new postings after this weekend
> > I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
> > I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
> > canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
> > jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
> > (fruit fresh).

>
> Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), not citric acid. It is used
> to prevent some fruits from darkening (e.g., apples, bananas)


Now you have me thinking... Arg...

Fruit Fresh Ingredients: Dextrose, Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), Citric
Acid, silicon Dioxide (Anti-Caking). Contains no sulfites

Now I need to looked up the ingredient listing of fruit fresh.
Then find out the if food sources of the ingredients are derived from
wheat sources. Fruit Fresh may still be ok. I may switch to lemon juice
and look for their additives as well.. Lemon Juice may be they way to go.

The reason for stating Citric Acid is: the Ball Book states to add
"Bottled Lemon Juice or Citric Acid" in almost all the recipes.
I cannot find the page where it showed "Fruit Fresh" as a source of
citric acid.

Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon Juice?

Thanks for reading the finer details of my postings

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Dan L. wrote:
> > In article >,
> > George Shirley > wrote:
> >
> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> Dan Musicant > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman >
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> :ljp other wrote:
> >>>> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
> >>>> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method is
> >>>> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners desired
> >>>> :> to
> >>>> :> kill their families.
> >>>> :
> >>>> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped over a
> >>>> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd put
> >>>> :it
> >>>> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
> >>>> :
> >>>> :B/
> >>>>
> >>>> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that he'd
> >>>> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dan
> >>> If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could learn
> >>> from others.
> >>>
> >>> A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by the
> >>> U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
> >>> (the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
> >>> when the U was doing such research) said about options and the choices
> >>> we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
> >>> methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
> >>> choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
> >>> storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative approach
> >>> designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
> >>> maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance for
> >>> those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
> >>> health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.
> >>>
> >>> You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
> >>> regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage a
> >>> more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here after
> >>> deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that they
> >>> want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
> >>> ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
> >>> long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
> >>> safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer information
> >>> we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic and,
> >>> as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
> >>> declared unsafe by those researchers.
> >>>
> >>> If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
> >>> processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
> >>> because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves just
> >>> aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method of
> >>> sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but the
> >>> equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
> >>> are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved processes.
> >>> Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in your
> >>> resources and some good judgment.
> >>>
> >> Well said Barb. I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.
> >> Regardless of whether he is or not, I tend to not pay any attention to
> >> his posts if he insists on taking the path to home preserving that he is
> >> following. The only response of mine he will see is the one that tells
> >> newbies to disregard his advice and go to the UGA site for advice.

> >
> > Hmmm ... More than one Dan here ... Call me "Dan L"
> >
> > I am the original poster "Dan L". 27 new postings after this weekend
> > I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the letter.
> > I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
> > canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
> > jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
> > (fruit fresh).
> >
> > I admit, I have another reason for trying my hand at canning. I am
> > canning for just me (one person). So I will be in the small batch
> > thinking mode. I find in my old and decrepit age that I cannot eat wheat
> > or gluten. I am not a celiac or have wheat allergies. So it must be
> > gluten sensitivity. I feel so much better without wheat and almost all
> > health problems have gone away. I guess, it is never to late to learn.
> >
> > Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
> > barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
> > binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
> > miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
> > tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
> >
> > I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life outside
> > of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
> > cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping to
> > that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
> >
> > Enjoy Life ... Dan L
> >

>
> I won't joust with you for the most decrepit old guy on this group Dan
> L. I'll be 70 on the 23rd of this month and preserving the food we eat
> has been with me since I was about 6 years old, during WWII. We had a
> Victory garden in the backyard plus rabbits and chickens in cages too.
> At age 10 we moved onto ten acres in the country and things really
> revved up. DW and I bought our first pressure canner in about 1965 IIRC,
> and have run through a lot of boiling water canners over the past forty
> odd years. It gets in your blood and gets interesting once you dig into
> the craft. The Ball book is pretty much the holy book of food preserving
> for most people so it looks like you're doing good with it as opposed to
> the OP who started this thread. Folks are always welcome on this group
> and we're all interested in how you're doing and what you're doing with
> the stuff you grow, preserve, or whatever.


I started this thread - there are two Dan's here. Can be confusing.

I am 52 years old and feel like I am 70 New to food preserving. I
moved from the city to the country 10 years ago on twelve acres. A city
mouse learning to be a country mouse. Life in the country is better.

When NAFTA was pasted, I could see a future economic collapse and made
incremental plans to get out of the city and move to the safety of the
country side. I have read a very old book called "Five Acres and
Independence" by M.G. Kains. An outdated book, still in print, still
holds some truth about life. I got out of the city in plenty of time,
before the housing collapse. If I waited longer, I would have been
trapped in the city with a home half of its value or could not sell. The
homes in country where I live has not dropped one dime in value. Land
without a home is still skyrocketing. Now I am preparing for a currency
collapse in the next few years.

I have a vast personal library. Well over one thousand books covering
many subjects. Subjects ranging from Science Fiction to Humor, Bibles(4
versions read back to back) to Darwin's "Origin of Species", Laundry to
Quantum Mechanics and now Food Preserving. Again - I have no social life.
For companionship - I will take My books and the Dog any time

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

Dan L. wrote:

> I started this thread - there are two Dan's here. Can be confusing.
>
> I am 52 years old and feel like I am 70 New to food preserving. I
> moved from the city to the country 10 years ago on twelve acres. A city
> mouse learning to be a country mouse. Life in the country is better.
>
> When NAFTA was pasted, I could see a future economic collapse and made
> incremental plans to get out of the city and move to the safety of the
> country side. I have read a very old book called "Five Acres and
> Independence" by M.G. Kains. An outdated book, still in print, still
> holds some truth about life. I got out of the city in plenty of time,
> before the housing collapse. If I waited longer, I would have been
> trapped in the city with a home half of its value or could not sell. The
> homes in country where I live has not dropped one dime in value. Land
> without a home is still skyrocketing. Now I am preparing for a currency
> collapse in the next few years.
>
> I have a vast personal library. Well over one thousand books covering
> many subjects. Subjects ranging from Science Fiction to Humor, Bibles(4
> versions read back to back) to Darwin's "Origin of Species", Laundry to
> Quantum Mechanics and now Food Preserving. Again - I have no social life.
> For companionship - I will take My books and the Dog any time
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>


Yo. Wrong room. The encounter group is down the hall.

Just kidding. I find your comments/commentary quite interesting and
I look forward to more.

I guess there's something about The Coming Currency Collapse and
food preserving that go together. In any case this is definitely
the place to read up on the latter.
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> Citric acid is not the same as Fruit-Fresh, which is ascorbic acid. I
> can buy citric acid at my food co-op and at a store near me called
> U-Bake (their home base is in Wisconsin). You should also find it at a
> store that sells candy-making supplies ‹ it is citric acid that puts the
> pucker in fruit-flavored lollipops and hard candies. You might also
> find it at a place like Wally World in its canning section; I think I've
> seen a Ball label on some citric acid. A wine making supply place
> should also have it, according to what I've read here.


I will check that out, buying pure citric acid does sound better. At the
time I started canning last week I did not know such an item existed.
The local store had a section on canning. The Ball pickling salt and
Fruit Fresh next to the canning jars. The additives in fruit fresh does
does not completely satisfy me.

> Be sure you vent your canner for 10 minutes before you put the pressure
> regulator on it.


I have done that. I have a very small pressure canner (can only hold 4
quart jars, seven pints) I like it. Canning for one - me.

> (Check that business about thinking Fruit Fresh is the same as ascorbic
> acid; I don't think so.)


I will look that up. Still can't find where I read that fruit fresh for
citric acid. I have purchased four books on canning - more reading
needed. I am not one to jump into things without thought or study. I
have purchased these books on canning five months ago. I hope my mind is
not failing me in my old age and hope my tomato sauce is ok.

> I grew up on a farm, Dan. Be careful in the chicken yard ‹ you don't
> want to be dropping your chewing gum there, thinking you'll just pick it
> up and dust it off. "-)


My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I have
the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering of
Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much harder
for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need to do it
or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this thread). Three of
the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two will have go... soon.

I lost a cap from gum in the past. That stopped me from chewing gum.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

(snip)
> > Fruit Fresh is ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), not citric acid. It is used
> > to prevent some fruits from darkening (e.g., apples, bananas)

>
> Now you have me thinking... Arg...
>
> Fruit Fresh Ingredients: Dextrose, Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C), Citric
> Acid, silicon Dioxide (Anti-Caking). Contains no sulfites
>
> Now I need to looked up the ingredient listing of fruit fresh.


Looks like you did that. :-)

> Then find out the if food sources of the ingredients are derived from
> wheat sources. Fruit Fresh may still be ok. I may switch to lemon juice
> and look for their additives as well.. Lemon Juice may be they way to go.


Here's something about ReaLemon brand lemon juice: INGREDIENTS:
Lemon juice from concentrate (water, concentrated lemon juice), sodium
benzoate, sodium metabisulfite and sodium sulfite (preservatives), lemon
oil.

Contains concentrate from the United States & Argentina.

That's from
<http://www.dietfacts.com/html/nutrit...percent-lemon-
juice-from-concentrate-natural-strength-15481.htm>

Of interest to me is that the Sure Jell and Certo pectin recipes for
fruit spreads which require the addition of lemon juice are specifying
fresh lemon juice rather than bottled. Used to be that bottled lemon
juice was specified. Maybe the California lemon growers lobby took
exception to the oversight. :-0)

I note that the last two versions of the Ball Blue Book don't specify
bottled or fresh for soft spreads, but do specify bottled lemon juice
(or citric acid) for acidifying tomatoes. Go figure. Likewise with
SETP ‹ it specifies bottled for tomatoes, doesn't specify for fruit
spreads.

> The reason for stating Citric Acid is: the Ball Book states to add
> "Bottled Lemon Juice or Citric Acid" in almost all the recipes.
> I cannot find the page where it showed "Fruit Fresh" as a source of
> citric acid.
>
> Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon Juice?


In my mind, no, it is not. It appears that citric acid is a component
of the FF product. Ingredients have to be listed in descending order,
by weight. There is no way to know how much citric acid is used in the
blend, only that there's more sugar and ascorbic acid in it (or there
may be equal amounts of ascorbic acid and citric acid if they're equal
and listed alphabetically‹Ida Know. A teaspoon of Fruit Fresh will
not contain a teaspoon of citric acid.
>
> Thanks for reading the finer details of my postings


Sometimes it's a curse, other times it's a gift. "-0)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1


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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

Hey Dan L,

I am brand new to Pressure Canning. My first process, yesterday, produced
15 jars of Apricot chicken. I am brand new to vegie patching and trying to
get ready for economy crash. Trying to stock up on meat in the pantry, then
hopefully canning vegies one day. I'm from Australia so our seasons are
opposite. I have potatoes, silverbeet, leeks and cabbages growing in the
patch. A whole heap of heirloom seeds growing in the mini greenhouse
readying for spring. I think when the time comes for tomatoes, I will be
using lemon juice.

"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Dan L. wrote:
>> > In article >,
>> > George Shirley > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> >>> In article >,
>> >>> Dan Musicant > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:59:00 -0700, Brian Mailman
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> :ljp other wrote:
>> >>>> :> I was waiting to see the response to Dan. I commend the
>> >>>> :> responders on their reasoned and measured replies. Dan's method
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> :> reasonably safe, it is unlikely that generations of canners
>> >>>> desired
>> >>>> :> to
>> >>>> :> kill their families.
>> >>>> :
>> >>>> :I didn't desire to fall down the stairs last week when I tripped
>> >>>> over a
>> >>>> :box that I had reasonably safely stowed to the side. If only I'd
>> >>>> put
>> >>>> :it
>> >>>> :away properly, as I'd been advised....
>> >>>> :
>> >>>> :B/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think it was Thoreau (tiny chance it was Emerson) that said that
>> >>>> he'd
>> >>>> NEVER received any advice in his life worth following.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dan
>> >>> If that's the case, it's unfortunate that he didn't think he could
>> >>> learn
>> >>> from others.
>> >>>
>> >>> A few years ago I attended a food preservation seminar sponsored by
>> >>> the
>> >>> U of MN food science folks, and remember something that Bill Schafer
>> >>> (the guy who oversaw the food preservation research going on at the U
>> >>> when the U was doing such research) said about options and the
>> >>> choices
>> >>> we make. He spoke of one's tolerance for risk; the outcomes of some
>> >>> methods present a higher risk for illness or death and some people
>> >>> choose to take that risk. Some methods present a higher risk of
>> >>> storage failure. It was clear that he favored a conservative
>> >>> approach
>> >>> designed to minimize the risk of food-borne illness while still
>> >>> maintaining reasonably high quality . I don't have much tolerance
>> >>> for
>> >>> those risks; there's too much at stake--I'm not willing to risk the
>> >>> health of friends and family who eat the canned goods I prepare.
>> >>>
>> >>> You've made it pretty clear that you're going to do it your way
>> >>> regardless of the comments and references posted here that encourage
>> >>> a
>> >>> more conservative approach. Many inexperienced people come here
>> >>> after
>> >>> deciding they want to preserve their harvest or after deciding that
>> >>> they
>> >>> want to preserve a homemade product for future enjoyment and are now
>> >>> ready to give it a go. The people who have participated here for a
>> >>> long time will always welcome new preservers and will always promote
>> >>> safety, first and foremost. That means that we will offer
>> >>> information
>> >>> we know to be in accordance with the latest research on the topic
>> >>> and,
>> >>> as you've experienced, we will challenge those who offer methods
>> >>> declared unsafe by those researchers.
>> >>>
>> >>> If you have special knowledge, you know that methods for commercial
>> >>> processing are not always the same as home preserving methods and
>> >>> because of that, some things available on the supermarket shelves
>> >>> just
>> >>> aren't practical to produce in a home kitchen. The inversion method
>> >>> of
>> >>> sealing jam jars is the method used for commercial production; but
>> >>> the
>> >>> equipment is different, the product requirements are specified, there
>> >>> are reporting requirements and the FDA regulates the approved
>> >>> processes.
>> >>> Home canning is ---- home canning, regulated by nothing but trust in
>> >>> your
>> >>> resources and some good judgment.
>> >>>
>> >> Well said Barb. I suspect some, as do I, suspect Dan is a troll.
>> >> Regardless of whether he is or not, I tend to not pay any attention to
>> >> his posts if he insists on taking the path to home preserving that he
>> >> is
>> >> following. The only response of mine he will see is the one that tells
>> >> newbies to disregard his advice and go to the UGA site for advice.
>> >
>> > Hmmm ... More than one Dan here ... Call me "Dan L"
>> >
>> > I am the original poster "Dan L". 27 new postings after this weekend
>> > I followed the "Complete Book of HOME PRESERVING" by ball to the
>> > letter.
>> > I used a pressure canner because the book (page 370) said a pressure
>> > canner would provide a higher-quality product for tomatoes. My mason
>> > jars boiled, lids simmered and I used canning salt and citric acid
>> > (fruit fresh).
>> >
>> > I admit, I have another reason for trying my hand at canning. I am
>> > canning for just me (one person). So I will be in the small batch
>> > thinking mode. I find in my old and decrepit age that I cannot eat
>> > wheat
>> > or gluten. I am not a celiac or have wheat allergies. So it must be
>> > gluten sensitivity. I feel so much better without wheat and almost all
>> > health problems have gone away. I guess, it is never to late to learn.
>> >
>> > Almost every mass produced food product seems to have wheat,rye or
>> > barley in it. The soups, beans and others use wheat as a thickener or
>> > binder. The canning recipes in most canning books does not use that
>> > miserable ingredient. My tomato sauce has just three ingredients;
>> > tomatoes, salt and citric acid.
>> >
>> > I have the land for a large garden and not much of a social life
>> > outside
>> > of work. So I am going to learn as much about organic gardening and
>> > cooking for good health. Hmmm ... add raising chickens and beekeeping
>> > to
>> > that list also ... in my old and decrepit age
>> >
>> > Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>> >

>>
>> I won't joust with you for the most decrepit old guy on this group Dan
>> L. I'll be 70 on the 23rd of this month and preserving the food we eat
>> has been with me since I was about 6 years old, during WWII. We had a
>> Victory garden in the backyard plus rabbits and chickens in cages too.
>> At age 10 we moved onto ten acres in the country and things really
>> revved up. DW and I bought our first pressure canner in about 1965 IIRC,
>> and have run through a lot of boiling water canners over the past forty
>> odd years. It gets in your blood and gets interesting once you dig into
>> the craft. The Ball book is pretty much the holy book of food preserving
>> for most people so it looks like you're doing good with it as opposed to
>> the OP who started this thread. Folks are always welcome on this group
>> and we're all interested in how you're doing and what you're doing with
>> the stuff you grow, preserve, or whatever.

>
> I started this thread - there are two Dan's here. Can be confusing.
>
> I am 52 years old and feel like I am 70 New to food preserving. I
> moved from the city to the country 10 years ago on twelve acres. A city
> mouse learning to be a country mouse. Life in the country is better.
>
> When NAFTA was pasted, I could see a future economic collapse and made
> incremental plans to get out of the city and move to the safety of the
> country side. I have read a very old book called "Five Acres and
> Independence" by M.G. Kains. An outdated book, still in print, still
> holds some truth about life. I got out of the city in plenty of time,
> before the housing collapse. If I waited longer, I would have been
> trapped in the city with a home half of its value or could not sell. The
> homes in country where I live has not dropped one dime in value. Land
> without a home is still skyrocketing. Now I am preparing for a currency
> collapse in the next few years.
>
> I have a vast personal library. Well over one thousand books covering
> many subjects. Subjects ranging from Science Fiction to Humor, Bibles(4
> versions read back to back) to Darwin's "Origin of Species", Laundry to
> Quantum Mechanics and now Food Preserving. Again - I have no social life.
> For companionship - I will take My books and the Dog any time
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>
> --
> Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

"Dan L." > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
> is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I have
> the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering of
> Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much harder
> for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need to do it
> or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this thread). Three of
> the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two will have go... soon.


My Grandmother raised chickens when I was a kid. I went down every morning
to get the eggs. Henrietta was my pet. When the egg count came up short,
Gramma would ask me to bring whoever hadn't given an egg up to the house
for a talk. I would hold a bowl in Gramma's lap while she slit the hen's
throat and bled her out into the bowl. Henrietta was delicious!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

Nick Cramer wrote:
> "Dan L." > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
>> is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I have
>> the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering of
>> Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much harder
>> for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need to do it
>> or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this thread). Three of
>> the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two will have go... soon.

>
> My Grandmother raised chickens when I was a kid. I went down every morning
> to get the eggs. Henrietta was my pet. When the egg count came up short,
> Gramma would ask me to bring whoever hadn't given an egg up to the house
> for a talk. I would hold a bowl in Gramma's lap while she slit the hen's
> throat and bled her out into the bowl. Henrietta was delicious!
>


Ouch!

I'm glad my name isn't Henrietta.
I am *not* baring my neck in your presence.

Bob
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Default Newbe - Canning Tomatoes?

Bob Muncie > wrote:
> Nick Cramer wrote:
> > "Dan L." > wrote:
> >> [ . . . ]
> >> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard
> >> part is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I
> >> have the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering
> >> of Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much
> >> harder for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need
> >> to do it or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this
> >> thread). Three of the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two
> >> will have go... soon.

> >
> > My Grandmother raised chickens when I was a kid. I went down every
> > morning to get the eggs. Henrietta was my pet. When the egg count came
> > up short, Gramma would ask me to bring whoever hadn't given an egg up
> > to the house for a talk. I would hold a bowl in Gramma's lap while she
> > slit the hen's throat and bled her out into the bowl. Henrietta was
> > delicious!


> Ouch!
>
> I'm glad my name isn't Henrietta.
> I am *not* baring my neck in your presence.


Gramma's knives were razor sharp. Think of the 4-H'ers who raised and
slaughtered pigs and lambs.

You're safe with me, Munchie!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
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Nick Cramer wrote:
> Bob Muncie > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer wrote:
>>> "Dan L." > wrote:
>>>> [ . . . ]
>>>> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard
>>>> part is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I
>>>> have the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering
>>>> of Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much
>>>> harder for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need
>>>> to do it or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this
>>>> thread). Three of the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two
>>>> will have go... soon.
>>> My Grandmother raised chickens when I was a kid. I went down every
>>> morning to get the eggs. Henrietta was my pet. When the egg count came
>>> up short, Gramma would ask me to bring whoever hadn't given an egg up
>>> to the house for a talk. I would hold a bowl in Gramma's lap while she
>>> slit the hen's throat and bled her out into the bowl. Henrietta was
>>> delicious!

>
>> Ouch!
>>
>> I'm glad my name isn't Henrietta.
>> I am *not* baring my neck in your presence.

>
> Gramma's knives were razor sharp. Think of the 4-H'ers who raised and
> slaughtered pigs and lambs.
>
> You're safe with me, Munchie!
>

Thanks!.... I think?

And that's Bob, Nick... :-)

Bob


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Bob Muncie > wrote:
> Nick Cramer wrote:
> > [ . . . ]
> > You're safe with me, Munchie!
> >

> Thanks!.... I think?
>
> And that's Bob, Nick... :-)


Sorry, Bob. I was quoting Sqwertz . . . I think.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
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That gave me the best laugh I've had in a long time!
Bob, Munchie Sqwertz hahahahahah. Damn that was funny

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Muncie > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer wrote:
>> > [ . . . ]
>> > You're safe with me, Munchie!
>> >

>> Thanks!.... I think?
>>
>> And that's Bob, Nick... :-)

>
> Sorry, Bob. I was quoting Sqwertz . . . I think.
>
> --
> Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
> families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
> Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
> Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061


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On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 12:09:39 -0700, Brian Mailman >
wrote:

an Musicant wrote:
:> On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 07:39:19 -0500, George Shirley
:> > wrote:
:
:> :Many, if not all of the canners that visit this newsgroup only use USDA
:> :approved canning methods. Your method is not one of them and leaves your
:> :canned goods open to many unsavory problems including spoilage. I would
:> :suggest you visit http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/ and see the latest
:> :recommendations.
:>
:> I realize that I'm not according to Hoyle, but I've not had any issues
:> since I started adding citric acid (1/2 t to a quart) several years ago.
:> In any case, I've never experienced any kind of sickness, upset stomach,
:> anything after eating my canned tomatoes, not received complaints from
:> the people I've given them to.
:
:Statistics are not based on the outcomes to an individual, only to groups.
:
:Because there's a 1 in 100 chance of something does not mean: you can do
:it 99 times and then stop. It also means if you're the "1" that your
:chances just increased to 100%.
:
:B/
Mark Twain: "There's lies, there's damn lies, and there's statistics."


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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In article >,
Bob Muncie > wrote:

> Nick Cramer wrote:
> > "Dan L." > wrote:
> >> [ . . . ]
> >> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
> >> is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I have
> >> the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering of
> >> Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much harder
> >> for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need to do it
> >> or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this thread). Three of
> >> the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two will have go... soon.

> >
> > My Grandmother raised chickens when I was a kid. I went down every morning
> > to get the eggs. Henrietta was my pet. When the egg count came up short,
> > Gramma would ask me to bring whoever hadn't given an egg up to the house
> > for a talk. I would hold a bowl in Gramma's lap while she slit the hen's
> > throat and bled her out into the bowl. Henrietta was delicious!
> >

>
> Ouch!
>
> I'm glad my name isn't Henrietta.
> I am *not* baring my neck in your presence.
>
> Bob


My chickens have no names. I thought it be best.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> > Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon Juice?

>
> In my mind, no, it is not. It appears that citric acid is a component
> of the FF product. Ingredients have to be listed in descending order,
> by weight. There is no way to know how much citric acid is used in the
> blend, only that there's more sugar and ascorbic acid in it (or there
> may be equal amounts of ascorbic acid and citric acid if they're equal
> and listed alphabetically‹Ida Know. A teaspoon of Fruit Fresh will
> not contain a teaspoon of citric acid.


I found my source for Fruit-Fresh.

The book called "Well-Preserved" by Eugenia Bone, first paragraph on
page 161 on tomatoes. She uses 2 tablespoons of lemon Juice OR 1/4
teaspoons of citric acid per pint - stating she uses Fruit Fresh for
this substitution. I translated that to the Ball Book which uses the
same amount of citric acid 1/4 tsp per pint.

The back of Fruit-Fresh states to use 1 tsp per liquid cup for
preserving. Now I am back to learning more.

Is Eugenia Bone's book correct?

I will try and find a source of citric acid somewhere. I was also
wondering about the additives in lemon juice as well. Citric acid can be
made from corn or wheat. Most commonly from corn, not fruits.

Are the sources of citric acid and additives on your bottles?

Thanks again for helping me out.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


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In article >,
"Green Newb" > wrote:

> Hey Dan L,
>
> I am brand new to Pressure Canning. My first process, yesterday, produced
> 15 jars of Apricot chicken. I am brand new to vegie patching and trying to
> get ready for economy crash. Trying to stock up on meat in the pantry, then
> hopefully canning vegies one day. I'm from Australia so our seasons are
> opposite. I have potatoes, silverbeet, leeks and cabbages growing in the
> patch. A whole heap of heirloom seeds growing in the mini greenhouse
> readying for spring. I think when the time comes for tomatoes, I will be
> using lemon juice.


Like minds here also. same minds on "rec.gardens" newsgroup also.
It is harvest time here - about one month left here in Michigan for
gardening. Apricot Chicken - I thought I started simple - Tomato Sauce

Seed Saving will have to be another year or two for me. Small
incremental steps for me. I do have purchased seeds saved up. A small
12x12 greenhouse is in my future IF I can hang on to my job. I am not
sure if I can afford the solar or wind generators at this time for
electric power. I have the gardening and composting down fairly well. I
can heat with wood or propane. I have lots of trees.

Food preserving for me is high on my list at this time.
Next year - pickling - A grew slicing cucumbers this year instead of the
pickling kind. Can one pickle slicing cucumbers? Are they as good as the
pickling kind?

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Dan L. wrote:
> In article >,
> "Green Newb" > wrote:
>
>> Hey Dan L,
>>
>> I am brand new to Pressure Canning. My first process, yesterday, produced
>> 15 jars of Apricot chicken. I am brand new to vegie patching and trying to
>> get ready for economy crash. Trying to stock up on meat in the pantry, then
>> hopefully canning vegies one day. I'm from Australia so our seasons are
>> opposite. I have potatoes, silverbeet, leeks and cabbages growing in the
>> patch. A whole heap of heirloom seeds growing in the mini greenhouse
>> readying for spring. I think when the time comes for tomatoes, I will be
>> using lemon juice.

>
> Like minds here also. same minds on "rec.gardens" newsgroup also.
> It is harvest time here - about one month left here in Michigan for
> gardening. Apricot Chicken - I thought I started simple - Tomato Sauce
>
> Seed Saving will have to be another year or two for me. Small
> incremental steps for me. I do have purchased seeds saved up. A small
> 12x12 greenhouse is in my future IF I can hang on to my job. I am not
> sure if I can afford the solar or wind generators at this time for
> electric power. I have the gardening and composting down fairly well. I
> can heat with wood or propane. I have lots of trees.
>
> Food preserving for me is high on my list at this time.
> Next year - pickling - A grew slicing cucumbers this year instead of the
> pickling kind. Can one pickle slicing cucumbers? Are they as good as the
> pickling kind?
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>

Your best bet on keeping your seeds viable is to keep them in a plastic
container in the freezer or refrigerator. We keep ours in the freezer,
includes purchased seeds and seeds I have saved from favored plantings,
primarily chile seeds there. On line you can find the Seed Savers
Exchange, Seeds of Change, etc. I favor Pinetree Seeds for vegetable
seeds although Burpee seeds are also pretty good.

I have pickled every kind of cucumber Dan, usually with good results.
Best results are with pickling varieties in the four to five inch long
stage but the other kind are more than adequate.
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Dan L. wrote:

> Seed Saving will have to be another year or two for me. Small
> incremental steps for me. I do have purchased seeds saved up. A small
> 12x12 greenhouse is in my future IF I can hang on to my job. I am not
> sure if I can afford the solar or wind generators at this time for
> electric power. I have the gardening and composting down fairly well. I
> can heat with wood or propane. I have lots of trees.


Seed saving is an interesting art. Tomatoes are very rarely true breeds these
days, except for ones that are known to be "heirloom" they are almost all
hybrids and will go back to their original varities in as little as one
generation. Not all heirloom tomatoes are true either, I saw on another list
that the Rutgers tomatoes are now considered heirloom, while they are hybrids
(but were first produced around 70 years ago).

Tomato seeds are almost indestructable, you can easily save them by
spooning them into a cup, add a few inches of water and let sit. When
they mold, remove the mold and any floaters, pour out the water and let
dry. They last better in the freezer as George says in another post.
Tomatos fed to chickens have been known to grow unexpectedly from seeds
that went through them and the chicken droppings were used as
fertilizer.

Cherry tomatoes can be reseeded by letting a few of the late crop drop on
the ground and burying them.

Cucumbers are another odd one, they tend to cross with whatever is near,
you can end up with a big watermellon that tastes like a lousy cucumber,
and so on.

> pickling kind. Can one pickle slicing cucumbers? Are they as good as the
> pickling kind?


Generally yes, but before they start to produce seeds. IMHO they make
better vinegar (refrigerator/bwb) pickles instead of fermented ones.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
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In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> > (Check that business about thinking Fruit Fresh is the same as ascorbic
> > acid; I don't think so.)

>
> I will look that up. Still can't find where I read that fruit fresh for
> citric acid. I have purchased four books on canning - more reading
> needed.


Check out the USDA canning guide; I believe you'll wind up at the
National Center for Home Food Preservation (NCHFP) site, housed at the U
of Georgia: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp. The U of GA food science
folks published the 5th edition of So Easy to Preserve about 3 years
ago. You might also consider contacting your state university's
extension service to see what they might have about Michigan-specific
canning information. I found this:
<http://www.med.umich.edu/pfans/docs/tip-2009/foodchoices-0109.pdf>
and this from MSU's extension service page:
<http://www.msue.msu.edu/portal/defau...8&page_id=2572
0&msue_portal_id=25643>

> I am not one to jump into things without thought or study. I have
> purchased these books on canning five months ago. I hope my mind is
> not failing me in my old age and hope my tomato sauce is ok.


If you'll be at least simmering it for at least 15 minutes, you'll be
fine.

> > I grew up on a farm, Dan. Be careful in the chicken yard ‹ you don't
> > want to be dropping your chewing gum there, thinking you'll just pick it
> > up and dust it off. "-)

>
> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
> is going to be the butchering.


Rule #1 about raising livestock: Don't name the critters. It's easier
if you have to butcher a chicken than if you're having to kill good ol'
Henrietta
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=8279841&page=1
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
>
>> In article >,
>> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>>> (Check that business about thinking Fruit Fresh is the same as ascorbic
>>> acid; I don't think so.)

>> I will look that up. Still can't find where I read that fruit fresh for
>> citric acid. I have purchased four books on canning - more reading
>> needed.

>
> Check out the USDA canning guide; I believe you'll wind up at the
> National Center for Home Food Preservation (NCHFP) site, housed at the U
> of Georgia: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp. The U of GA food science
> folks published the 5th edition of So Easy to Preserve about 3 years
> ago. You might also consider contacting your state university's
> extension service to see what they might have about Michigan-specific
> canning information. I found this:
> <http://www.med.umich.edu/pfans/docs/tip-2009/foodchoices-0109.pdf>
> and this from MSU's extension service page:
> <http://www.msue.msu.edu/portal/defau...8&page_id=2572
> 0&msue_portal_id=25643>
>
>> I am not one to jump into things without thought or study. I have
>> purchased these books on canning five months ago. I hope my mind is
>> not failing me in my old age and hope my tomato sauce is ok.

>
> If you'll be at least simmering it for at least 15 minutes, you'll be
> fine.
>
>>> I grew up on a farm, Dan. Be careful in the chicken yard ‹ you don't
>>> want to be dropping your chewing gum there, thinking you'll just pick it
>>> up and dust it off. "-)

>> My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
>> is going to be the butchering.

>
> Rule #1 about raising livestock: Don't name the critters. It's easier
> if you have to butcher a chicken than if you're having to kill good ol'
> Henrietta


Or do what we did with the goats, the kids were named Barbecue and
Sausage. <G> Ended up selling the two little bucks to another breeder
for more than I thought they were worth.


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In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> > > (Check that business about thinking Fruit Fresh is the same as ascorbic
> > > acid; I don't think so.)

> >
> > I will look that up. Still can't find where I read that fruit fresh for
> > citric acid. I have purchased four books on canning - more reading
> > needed.

>
> Check out the USDA canning guide; I believe you'll wind up at the
> National Center for Home Food Preservation (NCHFP) site, housed at the U
> of Georgia: http://www.uga.edu/nchfp. The U of GA food science
> folks published the 5th edition of So Easy to Preserve about 3 years
> ago. You might also consider contacting your state university's
> extension service to see what they might have about Michigan-specific
> canning information. I found this:
> <http://www.med.umich.edu/pfans/docs/tip-2009/foodchoices-0109.pdf>
> and this from MSU's extension service page:
> <http://www.msue.msu.edu/portal/defau...8&page_id=2572
> 0&msue_portal_id=25643>
>
> > I am not one to jump into things without thought or study. I have
> > purchased these books on canning five months ago. I hope my mind is
> > not failing me in my old age and hope my tomato sauce is ok.

>
> If you'll be at least simmering it for at least 15 minutes, you'll be
> fine.
>
> > > I grew up on a farm, Dan. Be careful in the chicken yard ‹ you don't
> > > want to be dropping your chewing gum there, thinking you'll just pick it
> > > up and dust it off. "-)

> >
> > My first at that also. I got my first eggs two weeks ago. The hard part
> > is going to be the butchering.

>
> Rule #1 about raising livestock: Don't name the critters. It's easier
> if you have to butcher a chicken than if you're having to kill good ol'
> Henrietta


Melba you are correct in every way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I called on the phone Jarden Home Brands about their product Fruit-Fresh.
It is NOT to be used as a substitute for citric Acid !!!!!
Fruit-Fresh can be used in canning, for protecting the color from
darkening in the canning process. It can be used in ADDITION of lemon
juice or citric acid, NOT as a substitute.

Fruit-Fresh is Gluten Free but might contain some cross contamination
because Gluten products are also made in the same factory.

So I wonder about the book I have in my lap... "Well-Preserved by
Eugenia Bone" toss it or keep it... A question for myself. Put a big
note inside it - "do not trust it!!!". I wonder to trust any other
canning book except from "Ball's Home Preserving Book". They have the
labs to test their products.

I do expect failures after the first time or two when I try anything new.
I suppose that is how people learn. I learned a new lesson today,
therefore it was a very good day

Again Thank You Melba for your help...
You may have saved my gastronomical butt!!!

Tomato sauce anyone

Enjoy Life ... Dan

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Citric acid is not the same as Fruit-Fresh, which is ascorbic acid. I
> can buy citric acid at my food co-op and at a store near me called
> U-Bake (their home base is in Wisconsin). You should also find it at a
> store that sells candy-making supplies ‹ it is citric acid that puts the
> pucker in fruit-flavored lollipops and hard candies. You might also
> find it at a place like Wally World in its canning section; I think I've
> seen a Ball label on some citric acid. A wine making supply place
> should also have it, according to what I've read here.


In addition, if you have a large supermarket with "ethnic" sections, in
the kosher food aisle you'll find "sour salt" (especially around the
spring holiday of Passover). That's citric acid, too.

B/
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Brian Mailman wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> Citric acid is not the same as Fruit-Fresh, which is ascorbic acid. I
>> can buy citric acid at my food co-op and at a store near me called
>> U-Bake (their home base is in Wisconsin). You should also find it at
>> a store that sells candy-making supplies ‹ it is citric acid that puts
>> the pucker in fruit-flavored lollipops and hard candies. You might
>> also find it at a place like Wally World in its canning section; I
>> think I've seen a Ball label on some citric acid. A wine making
>> supply place should also have it, according to what I've read here.

>
>
> In addition, if you have a large supermarket with "ethnic" sections, in
> the kosher food aisle you'll find "sour salt" (especially around the
> spring holiday of Passover). That's citric acid, too.
>
> B/
>


I get mine at my local beer/wine making supply store
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but then Oscar and Meyer were great pigs as was Wilber, we enjoyed
every bite. :-)
Connie TC
>
> Rule #1 about raising livestock: Don't name the critters. It's easier
> if you have to butcher a chicken than if you're having to kill good ol'
> Henrietta

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In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:


> I called on the phone Jarden Home Brands about their product Fruit-Fresh.
> It is NOT to be used as a substitute for citric Acid !!!!!
> Fruit-Fresh can be used in canning, for protecting the color from
> darkening in the canning process. It can be used in ADDITION of lemon
> juice or citric acid, NOT as a substitute.


:-)

>
> Fruit-Fresh is Gluten Free but might contain some cross contamination
> because Gluten products are also made in the same factory.
>
> So I wonder about the book I have in my lap... "Well-Preserved by
> Eugenia Bone" toss it or keep it... A question for myself.


I don't know that book.

> Put a big note inside it - "do not trust it!!!". I wonder to trust
> any other canning book except from "Ball's Home Preserving Book".
> They have the labs to test their products.


I like So Easy to Preserve from the U of GA, Dan. At least one person
(Dr. Elizabeth Andress) involved in operation of the NCHFP had a hand
in SETP. Dr. Andress is listed as co-reviser of it, along with Judy
Harrison. I also trust my U of MN extension services staff for
information. The various university extension divisions often have
recipes and information particular to their state.
(snip)
> Tomato sauce anyone


If you're edgy about it, open the jars, bring to boil, simmer the
contents for 15 minutes, and freeze it in freezer bags. Or make some
spaghetti sauce and freeze it.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
Here's my latest television gig; the video is to the right of the text
in the middle of the page:
<http://www.kare11.com/news/newsatfou...spx?storyid=82
3232&catid=323>


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In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > > Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon Juice?

> >
> > In my mind, no, it is not. It appears that citric acid is a component
> > of the FF product. Ingredients have to be listed in descending order,
> > by weight. There is no way to know how much citric acid is used in the
> > blend, only that there's more sugar and ascorbic acid in it (or there
> > may be equal amounts of ascorbic acid and citric acid if they're equal
> > and listed alphabetically‹Ida Know. A teaspoon of Fruit Fresh will
> > not contain a teaspoon of citric acid.

>
> I found my source for Fruit-Fresh.
>
> The book called "Well-Preserved" by Eugenia Bone, first paragraph on
> page 161 on tomatoes. She uses 2 tablespoons of lemon Juice OR 1/4
> teaspoons of citric acid per pint - stating she uses Fruit Fresh for
> this substitution. I translated that to the Ball Book which uses the
> same amount of citric acid 1/4 tsp per pint.
>
> The back of Fruit-Fresh states to use 1 tsp per liquid cup for
> preserving. Now I am back to learning more.
>
> Is Eugenia Bone's book correct?


I don't know the book; never heard of her (which means approximately
nothing). Personally, I'll stick with the conventional recommendation
from the university researchers which is "add two tablespoons of bottled
lemon juice or 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid per quart of tomatoes. For
pints, use one tablespoon bottled lemon juice or 1/4 teaspoon citric
acid."

> I will try and find a source of citric acid somewhere.


Try a big supermarket or ask at a Jewish deli. It's also known as "sour
salt."

> I was also wondering about the additives in lemon juice as well.
> Citric acid can be made from corn or wheat. Most commonly from corn,
> not fruits.


> Are the sources of citric acid and additives on your bottles?


Heck if I know. That information is of no cause for concern to me. My
bottle is from CK Products, ckproducts.com. Citric Acid (Anhydrous,
Fine Granular.) It has the words about what it may have come in
contact with during production. Maybe you should ask the nice people
at sci.bio.food-science. A bunch of pros over there, they have rules to
read about posting there.

> Thanks again for helping me out.


You're welcome.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check it out
And check this, too:
<http://www.kare11.com/news/newsatfou...spx?storyid=82
3232&catid=323>
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"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
>
> Haven't done that in thirty-three years, even back then we found pure
> organic didn't work in an area with 60-100 inches of rainfall a year.
>


Pure organic didn't work for us either. We get about half the amount of
rain you do. The soil was forever low in Nitrogen. I finally bought a bag
of Ammonium Nitrate. Problem solved.

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"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
>
> Food preserving for me is high on my list at this time.
> Next year - pickling - A grew slicing cucumbers this year instead of the
> pickling kind. Can one pickle slicing cucumbers? Are they as good as the
> pickling kind?
>


Yes! I can't tell the difference. Both make excellent pickles.

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"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
> is going to be the butchering. That part is going to bother me. I have
> the killing cones and sharp knives and the book "Basic Butchering of
> Livestock & Game" by John Mettler. That will be much much much harder
> for me than canning on many different levels. I feel the need to do it
> or be a hypocritical omnivore (Also mentioned in this thread). Three of
> the chickens are roosters and causing problems, two will have go... soon.
>


We had chickens at one time. When the hens were spent we couldn't bring
ourselves to slaughter them. I sold them instead.

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Dan L. wrote:
> My chickens have no names. I thought it be best.
>


Friend of mine names all her chickens "Kenny".

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory


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I added rec.gardening to my newsie list . Well my thought on starting
with Apricot chicken, start with the hardest thing first then everything
else should be simple. Think I pounded the crap out of the chicken. I'm
going to wait 2 weeks and try it and see if I die lol. No one has answered
the botulism thread. Guess the name alone scares them off.

My mini greenhouse cost 50, so it sounds way better than it looks. Its 2
feet wide and 6 feet high and just to get seeds started.
I've never collected seeds either, so its going to be a whole learning
journey. Also wood fired here, composting, no solar etc., I would like to
try and build a magnetic generator one day.

I just got pickling cucumbers in the mail and planted them yesterday. I
think if you pick them small enough, it should be the same, but I'm clueless
and hope someone can answer your question. How are you going with jars? I
use second hand jars from my shopping and have brand new lids which cost
about 17 cents each. Hope you can keep your job, just been down the
unemployment path recently, so I'm really stocking up big on the lids.

Lovely to meet another like mind.


"Dan L." > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Green Newb" > wrote:
>
>> Hey Dan L,
>>
>> I am brand new to Pressure Canning. My first process, yesterday,
>> produced
>> 15 jars of Apricot chicken. I am brand new to vegie patching and trying
>> to
>> get ready for economy crash. Trying to stock up on meat in the pantry,
>> then
>> hopefully canning vegies one day. I'm from Australia so our seasons are
>> opposite. I have potatoes, silverbeet, leeks and cabbages growing in the
>> patch. A whole heap of heirloom seeds growing in the mini greenhouse
>> readying for spring. I think when the time comes for tomatoes, I will be
>> using lemon juice.

>
> Like minds here also. same minds on "rec.gardens" newsgroup also.
> It is harvest time here - about one month left here in Michigan for
> gardening. Apricot Chicken - I thought I started simple - Tomato Sauce
>
> Seed Saving will have to be another year or two for me. Small
> incremental steps for me. I do have purchased seeds saved up. A small
> 12x12 greenhouse is in my future IF I can hang on to my job. I am not
> sure if I can afford the solar or wind generators at this time for
> electric power. I have the gardening and composting down fairly well. I
> can heat with wood or propane. I have lots of trees.
>
> Food preserving for me is high on my list at this time.
> Next year - pickling - A grew slicing cucumbers this year instead of the
> pickling kind. Can one pickle slicing cucumbers? Are they as good as the
> pickling kind?
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L
>
> --
> Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.


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In article >,
Serene Vannoy > wrote:

> Dan L. wrote:
> > My chickens have no names. I thought it be best.
> >

>
> Friend of mine names all her chickens "Kenny".
>
> Serene


She must have hated Kenny
That is a good one

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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In article >,
"Green Newb" > wrote:

> I added rec.gardening to my newsie list . Well my thought on starting
> with Apricot chicken, start with the hardest thing first then everything
> else should be simple. Think I pounded the crap out of the chicken. I'm
> going to wait 2 weeks and try it and see if I die lol. No one has answered
> the botulism thread. Guess the name alone scares them off.
>
> My mini greenhouse cost 50, so it sounds way better than it looks. Its 2
> feet wide and 6 feet high and just to get seeds started.
> I've never collected seeds either, so its going to be a whole learning
> journey. Also wood fired here, composting, no solar etc., I would like to
> try and build a magnetic generator one day.
>
> I just got pickling cucumbers in the mail and planted them yesterday. I
> think if you pick them small enough, it should be the same, but I'm clueless
> and hope someone can answer your question. How are you going with jars? I
> use second hand jars from my shopping and have brand new lids which cost
> about 17 cents each. Hope you can keep your job, just been down the
> unemployment path recently, so I'm really stocking up big on the lids.


I tend to buy everything new and use it till it is completely worn out.
Every car and truck I have bought new and drive them till they are
completely worn out, average life of car 16 years. It will be the same
with my canning equipment, except lids. I will buy new lids each time.

I built my own home with the help of my profession carpenter brother and
two nephews. I have 9 south side windows with heat registers under each
window. I put cheap plastic shelves next to the windows with my seedling
plants on them. When I start transplanting to bigger pots I run out of
room and plants are everywhere to the point I cannot see outside until
it is nice enough to set the plants outside. Someday a greenhouse would
be nice.

I have grown pickling cucumbers in the past. If one does not pick them
from 1-4 inches each and let the cucumbers get big the entire plant will
start to shrivel up and die. Cannot let the pickling cucumbers get big
and go to seed. pick them often and the pickling cucumber plant will
thrive. Slicing cucumbers - the plant will thrive regardless of the
fruit size.

I am a newbe at canning, so others may know. I think there is a self
life on lids. The rubber decays over time, I am not positive on this.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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In article >,
Melba's Jammin' > wrote:

> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> >
> > > > Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon Juice?
> > >
> > > In my mind, no, it is not. It appears that citric acid is a component
> > > of the FF product. Ingredients have to be listed in descending order,
> > > by weight. There is no way to know how much citric acid is used in the
> > > blend, only that there's more sugar and ascorbic acid in it (or there
> > > may be equal amounts of ascorbic acid and citric acid if they're equal
> > > and listed alphabetically‹Ida Know. A teaspoon of Fruit Fresh will
> > > not contain a teaspoon of citric acid.

> >
> > I found my source for Fruit-Fresh.
> >
> > The book called "Well-Preserved" by Eugenia Bone, first paragraph on
> > page 161 on tomatoes. She uses 2 tablespoons of lemon Juice OR 1/4
> > teaspoons of citric acid per pint - stating she uses Fruit Fresh for
> > this substitution. I translated that to the Ball Book which uses the
> > same amount of citric acid 1/4 tsp per pint.
> >
> > The back of Fruit-Fresh states to use 1 tsp per liquid cup for
> > preserving. Now I am back to learning more.
> >
> > Is Eugenia Bone's book correct?

>
> I don't know the book; never heard of her (which means approximately
> nothing). Personally, I'll stick with the conventional recommendation
> from the university researchers which is "add two tablespoons of bottled
> lemon juice or 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid per quart of tomatoes. For
> pints, use one tablespoon bottled lemon juice or 1/4 teaspoon citric
> acid."
>
> > I will try and find a source of citric acid somewhere.

>
> Try a big supermarket or ask at a Jewish deli. It's also known as "sour
> salt."
>
> > I was also wondering about the additives in lemon juice as well.
> > Citric acid can be made from corn or wheat. Most commonly from corn,
> > not fruits.

>
> > Are the sources of citric acid and additives on your bottles?

>
> Heck if I know. That information is of no cause for concern to me. My
> bottle is from CK Products, ckproducts.com. Citric Acid (Anhydrous,
> Fine Granular.) It has the words about what it may have come in
> contact with during production. Maybe you should ask the nice people
> at sci.bio.food-science. A bunch of pros over there, they have rules to
> read about posting there.
>
> > Thanks again for helping me out.

>
> You're welcome.


I open one of my tomato sauce jars. It was the best tasting tomato sauce
I have ever had. It was the sweetest tasting sauce. most store bought
sauce seems to always have a bitter taste to them. My gluten free pizza
never tasted better. I am hooked on making my own food sources for now
on.

I will probably stick to lemon juice for now. To be honest I am not
worried about the sauce I made. It will only be for me and I will be the
only one that suffers if I truly screwed up. It was pressured canned,
has salt, has some citric acid and some acid from ascorbic acid should
be enough to tip the balance of a borderline PH fruit to begin with.

To Melba:
I did enjoy your blue ribbon video
The one thing that caught my attention - You do not recommend canning
low PH vegetables? Never canned green beens or corn?

Hmmm... Vegetables are high on my list. Do I need to rethink this?

I bookmarked the websites for future reference.
I will be having fun this long holiday weekend, so I will not be online.

Enjoy Life ... Dan L

--
Garden in Zone 5 South East Michigan.
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Dan L. wrote:

> The one thing that caught my attention - You do not recommend canning
> low PH vegetables? Never canned green beens or corn?
>
> Hmmm... Vegetables are high on my list. Do I need to rethink this?


I never intend to can low pH veggies. Things like green beans and corn
freeze really well, and they're scary to me. I'll stick with fruits,
jams, and the like.

Serene

--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com

"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory


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Serene Vannoy wrote:
> Dan L. wrote:
>
>> The one thing that caught my attention - You do not recommend canning
>> low PH vegetables? Never canned green beens or corn?
>>
>> Hmmm... Vegetables are high on my list. Do I need to rethink this?

>
> I never intend to can low pH veggies. Things like green beans and corn
> freeze really well, and they're scary to me. I'll stick with fruits,
> jams, and the like.
>
> Serene
>

As long as you follow the rules pressure canning is also easy, just
takes some concentration and you have to stay nearby while the canner is
working. I drag up a chair and get a book to read, glance up frequently
to make sure pressure is maintained at the correct psig or adjust the
heat as necessary. Once you get a handle on it you learn exactly how to
set the heat to maintain the pressure needed. Of course mine is easier
than many because I live at nineteen feet above sea level. <G>
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In article >,
"Green Newb" > wrote:

> I added rec.gardening to my newsie list .


I think the one you want is rec.gardens.edible :-)

> I just got pickling cucumbers in the mail and planted them yesterday. I
> think if you pick them small enough, it should be the same, but I'm clueless
> and hope someone can answer your question.


Sounds like a question for the smart people on rec.gardens.edible.

--
-Barb
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In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:
(snip)
> I am a newbe at canning, so others may know. I think there is a self
> life on lids. The rubber decays over time, I am not positive on this.
>
> Enjoy Life ... Dan L


They're no longer made of rubber but of a created "sealing compound"
made of mysterious components. I've used lids that have been more than
3 years old without incident.

My method: when I remove the empty jars from the boiling water so I can
fill them, I drop the lids into the water and pull them out as I need
them to cover a jar.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>
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In article
>,
"Dan L." > wrote:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>
> > In article
> > >,
> > "Dan L." > wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Is Fruit Fresh an acceptable substitute for citric acid or lemon
> > > > > Juice?
> > > >
> > > > In my mind, no, it is not. It appears that citric acid is a component
> > > > of the FF product. Ingredients have to be listed in descending order,
> > > > by weight. There is no way to know how much citric acid is used in the
> > > > blend, only that there's more sugar and ascorbic acid in it (or there
> > > > may be equal amounts of ascorbic acid and citric acid if they're equal
> > > > and listed alphabetically‹Ida Know. A teaspoon of Fruit Fresh will
> > > > not contain a teaspoon of citric acid.
> > >
> > > I found my source for Fruit-Fresh.
> > >
> > > The book called "Well-Preserved" by Eugenia Bone, first paragraph on
> > > page 161 on tomatoes. She uses 2 tablespoons of lemon Juice OR 1/4
> > > teaspoons of citric acid per pint - stating she uses Fruit Fresh for
> > > this substitution. I translated that to the Ball Book which uses the
> > > same amount of citric acid 1/4 tsp per pint.
> > >
> > > The back of Fruit-Fresh states to use 1 tsp per liquid cup for
> > > preserving. Now I am back to learning more.
> > >
> > > Is Eugenia Bone's book correct?

> >
> > I don't know the book; never heard of her (which means approximately
> > nothing). Personally, I'll stick with the conventional recommendation
> > from the university researchers which is "add two tablespoons of bottled
> > lemon juice or 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid per quart of tomatoes. For
> > pints, use one tablespoon bottled lemon juice or 1/4 teaspoon citric
> > acid."
> >
> > > I will try and find a source of citric acid somewhere.

> >
> > Try a big supermarket or ask at a Jewish deli. It's also known as "sour
> > salt."
> >
> > > I was also wondering about the additives in lemon juice as well.
> > > Citric acid can be made from corn or wheat. Most commonly from corn,
> > > not fruits.

> >
> > > Are the sources of citric acid and additives on your bottles?

> >
> > Heck if I know. That information is of no cause for concern to me. My
> > bottle is from CK Products, ckproducts.com. Citric Acid (Anhydrous,
> > Fine Granular.) It has the words about what it may have come in
> > contact with during production. Maybe you should ask the nice people
> > at sci.bio.food-science. A bunch of pros over there, they have rules to
> > read about posting there.
> >
> > > Thanks again for helping me out.

> >
> > You're welcome.

>
> I open one of my tomato sauce jars. It was the best tasting tomato sauce
> I have ever had. It was the sweetest tasting sauce. most store bought
> sauce seems to always have a bitter taste to them. My gluten free pizza
> never tasted better. I am hooked on making my own food sources for now
> on.
>
> I will probably stick to lemon juice for now. To be honest I am not
> worried about the sauce I made. It will only be for me and I will be the
> only one that suffers if I truly screwed up. It was pressured canned,
> has salt, has some citric acid and some acid from ascorbic acid should
> be enough to tip the balance of a borderline PH fruit to begin with.
>
> To Melba:
> I did enjoy your blue ribbon video


Here's another one:
<http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/m...gies_Dale_fair
_august_17_2009> My Bread & Butter Pickle recipe is there, too.

> The one thing that caught my attention - You do not recommend canning
> low PH vegetables?


It's fine if done correctly.

> Never canned green beens or corn?


Actually, I don't. Keep reading.
>
> Hmmm... Vegetables are high on my list. Do I need to rethink this?


You do not need to rethink it. Those vegetables can be *pickled* and
processed in a boiling water bath ‹ I've got a few blue ribbons for
pickled vegetables (cucumbers are low-acid vegetables, but people almost
always think "pickle" when speaking of canned cucumbers. :-)

When they are NOT pickled, they must be processed in a steam pressure
*canner.* My comment to which you refer was in response to a question
about what is the most difficult thing to can. I answered without
expanding on the option for pickling them and didn't think about the
ambiguity until after we were finished with the interview.

I don't can low acid vegetables * I have a glass top stove and I don't
want my canner on it ‹ base diameter is too big, for one thing.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://web.me.com/barbschaller - Yes, I Can! blog - check
it out. And check this, too: <http://www.kare11.com/news/
newsatfour/newsatfour_article.aspx?storyid=823232&catid=323>
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article
> >,
> "Dan L." > wrote:
> (snip)
>> I am a newbe at canning, so others may know. I think there is a self
>> life on lids. The rubber decays over time, I am not positive on this.
>>
>> Enjoy Life ... Dan L

>
> They're no longer made of rubber but of a created "sealing compound"
> made of mysterious components. I've used lids that have been more than
> 3 years old without incident.
>
> My method: when I remove the empty jars from the boiling water so I can
> fill them, I drop the lids into the water and pull them out as I need
> them to cover a jar.


I have a shallow sauce pan that I put about an inch of water in and then
simmer. The lids go in there. I, too, have used lids three or four years
old without incident.
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