Preserving (rec.food.preserving) Devoted to the discussion of recipes, equipment, and techniques of food preservation. Techniques that should be discussed in this forum include canning, freezing, dehydration, pickling, smoking, salting, and distilling.

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Default Citric Acid question

Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
revealed nothing.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Ray West <> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> revealed nothing.
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


Have you Googled on 'citric acid pH' or 'citric acid pH reduction water'?

--
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Ray West wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> revealed nothing.
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **



You question is not answerable. It depends on what is dissolved in the
water. (if you have distilled water, just the CO2 from the air is
enough to drive the pH down to about 6.)

Bob
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<Ray West> wrote in message
...
> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> revealed nothing.


Unfortunately cannot answer your (un)specific question, but have some
remarks. First, what are you preserving or preparing or brewing? Or
planting? and what country are you working from? We might be able to point
you in the right direction.
In our FAQ http://rfpfaq.jaclu.com/rfpFAQ.htm are some discussions on pH
and how it works in food preservation, and iirc, we had a discussion last
year on where to buy pH testing supplies on this newsgroup. The brewing
newsgroup may have some answers for you. If this is a gardening question,
many of us have gardens, and there are a number of gardening groups. BTW, I
found that the garden test probes are not very accurate in my limited
investigation. If it is important to your work, it's best to buy the goodest
tools you can afford that will do the job. Some test equipment is not too
terribly expensive, but you pay for what you get. A brewer's store or
scientific supply shop are good places to start.
All that said, I believe that 1 tablespoon of citric acid (sour salt) [not
vitamin c (ascorbic acid)] in one pint of ordinary tomatoes will bring the
pH down far enough to be healthfully kept after boiling water bath, i.e.,
4.6 or below. These things are so varied as fruits, juices, and veggies have
different pH according to time of year, watering schedule, place of origin,
variety, and believe it or not - site in the field/garden. Our FAQ has some
tables of substitution and the exact measurements, which I disremember as I
have not had my coffee yet.
hth, Edrena



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Default Citric Acid question

I agree with Bob. From my experience trying to change the pH of an
aquarium, I've learned that it matters what else is in the water that
might act as a buffer to changing the pH level.

Dave

On May 9, 12:07*pm, zxcvbob > wrote:
> Ray West wrote:
> > Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> > given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> > revealed nothing.
> > ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**

>
> You question is not answerable. *It depends on what is dissolved in the
> water. *(if you have distilled water, just the CO2 from the air is
> enough to drive the pH down to about 6.)
>
> Bob



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Default Citric Acid question

Thanks Nick... I must have got myself in rutt, your second suggestion
has opened new posibilities... thanks again from a Vietnam Vet.

To the other replies.. The Question was quite specific and as simple
as it could be...

Nick Cramer> wrote:

>Ray West <> wrote:
>> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
>> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
>> revealed nothing.
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

>
>Have you Googled on 'citric acid pH' or 'citric acid pH reduction water'?


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
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Ray West wrote:
> Thanks Nick... I must have got myself in rutt, your second suggestion
> has opened new posibilities... thanks again from a Vietnam Vet.
>
> To the other replies.. The Question was quite specific and as simple
> as it could be...
>
> Nick Cramer> wrote:
>
>> Ray West <> wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
>>> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
>>> revealed nothing.
>>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

>> Have you Googled on 'citric acid pH' or 'citric acid pH reduction water'?

>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **



The question was specific, but it doesn't have an answer.

Bob
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zxcvbob wrote:
> Ray West wrote:
>> Thanks Nick... I must have got myself in rutt, your second suggestion
>> has opened new posibilities... thanks again from a Vietnam Vet.
>>
>> To the other replies.. The Question was quite specific and as simple
>> as it could be...


> The question was specific, but it doesn't have an answer.


How high is up?

B/
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On May 9, 4:12�am, Ray West <> wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> revealed nothing.
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**


You may wish to purchase a ph meter on line or on eBay that is food
grade (accurate enough to be of some value). I add no more than a
teaspoon of citric acid to a quart of tomato products. It has less of
a taste than lemon juice and is much more effective in bringing down
ph without altering the taste of the original product. In jams and
fruit products it may be desirable to use lemon juice because the
flavor compliments the fruit. If not, tart it up (or lower ph) with
citric acid or with an acid blend. Regards - Jim in So. Calif.
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I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

Got my money back on them.

It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
need further acidification, however, it would not hurt to add a small
amount of citric acid to be sure, certainly not the 1 tablespoon to a
pint as suggested one.

Like you I generally add half a teaspoon to 1 lt/qt of whatever I'm
doing.

I also use lemon juice, I also use vinegar in many applications,
knowing that 5% white vinegar runs between ph 2.3 & 2.5 it's easy to
work out.

Anyway I have a number of ph strips arriving shortly so I should get a
better idea.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:29:46 -0700 (PDT), jimnginger

>You may wish to purchase a ph meter on line or on eBay that is food
>grade (accurate enough to be of some value). I add no more than a
>teaspoon of citric acid to a quart of tomato products. It has less of
>a taste than lemon juice and is much more effective in bringing down
>ph without altering the taste of the original product. In jams and
>fruit products it may be desirable to use lemon juice because the
>flavor compliments the fruit. If not, tart it up (or lower ph) with
>citric acid or with an acid blend. Regards - Jim in So. Calif.


** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


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Default Citric Acid question

Ray West wrote:
> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>
> Got my money back on them.
>
> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
> need further acidification, however, it would not hurt to add a small
> amount of citric acid to be sure, certainly not the 1 tablespoon to a
> pint as suggested one.

Not absolutely true. Here in the USA there are many new varieties of
tomatoes that are hardly acidic at all. Therefore the suggestion to add
one tablespoon per pint of tomatoes.
>
> Like you I generally add half a teaspoon to 1 lt/qt of whatever I'm
> doing.
>
> I also use lemon juice, I also use vinegar in many applications,
> knowing that 5% white vinegar runs between ph 2.3 & 2.5 it's easy to
> work out.
>
> Anyway I have a number of ph strips arriving shortly so I should get a
> better idea.
>
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:29:46 -0700 (PDT), jimnginger
>
>> You may wish to purchase a ph meter on line or on eBay that is food
>> grade (accurate enough to be of some value). I add no more than a
>> teaspoon of citric acid to a quart of tomato products. It has less of
>> a taste than lemon juice and is much more effective in bringing down
>> ph without altering the taste of the original product. In jams and
>> fruit products it may be desirable to use lemon juice because the
>> flavor compliments the fruit. If not, tart it up (or lower ph) with
>> citric acid or with an acid blend. Regards - Jim in So. Calif.

>
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

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Default Citric Acid question

In article >,
"The Joneses" > wrote:

> All that said, I believe that 1 tablespoon of citric acid (sour salt) [not
> vitamin c (ascorbic acid)] in one pint of ordinary tomatoes will bring the
> pH down far enough to be healthfully kept after boiling water bath, i.e.,
> 4.6 or below.


> hth, Edrena
>

You'd better get that coffee, Woman.
Make that 1/4 TEASPOON of citric acid to a pint of tomatoes.

Here's from the NCHFP site regarding same:
"Acidification: To ensure safe acidity in whole, crushed, or juiced
tomatoes, add two tablespoons of bottled lemon juice or 1/2 teaspoon of
citric acid per quart of tomatoes. For pints, use one tablespoon bottled
lemon juice or 1/4 teaspoon citric acid. Acid can be added directly to
the jars before filling with product. Add sugar to offset acid taste, if
desired. Four tablespoons of a 5 percent acidity vinegar per quart may
be used instead of lemon juice or citric acid. However, vinegar may
cause undesirable flavor changes."

On my third cuppa now. '-)

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
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In article >, Ray West <>
wrote:

> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
> revealed nothing.
> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


Ray, it doesn't seem that you're liking the responses you've gotten here.
Maybe you'd have better results with the folks at sci.bio.food-science.
They are professionals. Their FAQ file was posted in two parts on May
1. There's also a May 1 post for new users. They're serious folks.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
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"Melba's Jammin'" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Ray West <>
> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone tell me how much citric acid is needed to lower the Ph of a
>> given ammount of water from Ph7 to Ph4 or 5. A search of the web has
>> revealed nothing.
>> ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

>
> Ray, it doesn't seem that you're liking the responses you've gotten here.
> Maybe you'd have better results with the folks at sci.bio.food-science.
> They are professionals. Their FAQ file was posted in two parts on May
> 1. There's also a May 1 post for new users. They're serious folks.
> --
> -Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
> Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com


Yeah, i was wrong. Damn Rx anyway. That's the bad part about remembering,
the ink fades so fast... But I did add our faq for Ray to double check. I
found that food grade pH meters (I paid about $69US for my wine meter) work
very well indeed, providing I test both the liquid and the chopped food.
And here in the US the US Dept of Agri folks have found low tomato pH,
especially them tomatoids in the supermarket which are bred to ship n'
shape, and not taste like tomatoes.
Edrena


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Ray West wrote:
> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>
> Got my money back on them.
>
> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
> need further acidification,


Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

Serene


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Serene wrote:
> Ray West wrote:
>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>>
>> Got my money back on them.
>>
>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
>> need further acidification,

>
> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
> less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>
> Serene

Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.

George
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George Shirley wrote:
> Serene wrote:
>> Ray West wrote:
>>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
>>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>>>
>>> Got my money back on them.
>>>
>>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
>>> need further acidification,

>> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
>> less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>>
>> Serene

> Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
> only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.


Okay, cool. Thanks! I'm hoping to have enough tomatoes this summer
to put it to the test. I'll almost certainly have more zucchini than
I can use, but mostly I don't think that cans or freezes all that well.

Serene
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Serene wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>> Serene wrote:
>>> Ray West wrote:
>>>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
>>>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>>>>
>>>> Got my money back on them.
>>>>
>>>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
>>>> need further acidification,
>>> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
>>> be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>>>
>>> Serene

>> Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
>> only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other
>> acidifier.

>
> Okay, cool. Thanks! I'm hoping to have enough tomatoes this summer to
> put it to the test. I'll almost certainly have more zucchini than I can
> use, but mostly I don't think that cans or freezes all that well.
>
> Serene

I've not found a summer squash that freezes well at all. What we can't
eat as it ripens we give to friends and neighbors. Some winter squashes
can be canned but, to me, the texture is lacking.

George
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On May 15, 3:56�pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> Serene wrote:
> > Ray West wrote:
> >> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
> >> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.

>
> >> Got my money back on them.

>
> >> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
> >> need further acidification,

>
> > Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
> > less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.

>
> > Serene

>
> Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
> only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.
>
> George


I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California
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In article >,
Serene > wrote:

> Ray West wrote:
> > I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
> > use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
> >
> > Got my money back on them.
> >
> > It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
> > need further acidification,

>
> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
> be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>
> Serene


It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com


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Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> Serene > wrote:
>
>> Ray West wrote:
>>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
>>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>>>
>>> Got my money back on them.
>>>
>>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
>>> need further acidification,

>> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to
>> be less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>>
>> Serene

>
> It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
> not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
> purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.
>



Rutgers. ;-)
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zxcvbob wrote:
>> It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or
>> they may not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the
>> varietal they purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap
>> insurance.


Better safe than being unable to say you're sorry.

B/
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
> not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
> purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.
>


Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
could look to see what their acidity typically is?

This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.

Serene
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jimnginger wrote:
> On May 15, 3:56�pm, George Shirley > wrote:
>> Serene wrote:
>>> Ray West wrote:
>>>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
>>>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
>>>> Got my money back on them.
>>>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
>>>> need further acidification,
>>> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
>>> less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
>>> Serene

>> Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
>> only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.
>>
>> George

>
> I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
> becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
> tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
> increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
> goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
> use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
> amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
> add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
> you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
> I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
> is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
> tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
> Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
> then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California

And where, exactly, in my post did I say you had to add a tablespoon of
citric acid? Jim, I've been canning tomatoes and other veggies for more
than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
modern tomatoes.

If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
the USDA recommended amounts.
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On Thu, 15 May 2008 23:12:32 -0700, Serene >
wrote:

>Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
>> It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
>> not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
>> purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.
>>

>
>Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
>varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
>could look to see what their acidity typically is?
>
>This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.
>
>Serene



In the book "All About Tomatoes" that was published by Ortho in 1976
says this: "There is probably as much variation in the pH and acidity
of tomatoes due to climate, soil, cultural practices and ripeness as
to variety differences." --U. S. D. A.

Pink, yellow, white, etc tomatoes are not necessarily lower in acid.
Newer varieties may be higher or lower in pH than the old varieties.

Another quote from the book. "You can't always taste acidity. Note
on the chart at right that honey is high in acidity" The chart lists
honey as having a pH of 4.0.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)


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In article >,
Serene > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > It's a precaution, Serene. The tomatoes may be below 4.6 -- or they may
> > not. I'd venture to say that most folks couldn't name the varietal they
> > purchase for canning and the acidification is cheap insurance.
> >

>
> Thanks, Barb! So I have a question, then -- if I do know the
> varietal (because I grew them myself), then is there someplace I
> could look to see what their acidity typically is?
>
> This stuff really fascinates the science geek in me.
>
> Serene


I don't know. Ask at rec.gardens.edible (I think that's what they're
called). I'm pretty sure that if you asked the NCHFP folks they'd tell
you to acidify regardless ‹ they *have* to err on the side of caution.
The U of MN has a list (I don't know how current it is) of tomatoes with
a higher pH than 4.6.

Maybe you could trace back to wherever your plants or seeds came from to
find out more info about it. Or Google the varietal. Or check with
your local state University's ag department (assuming there is one).
Some thoughts.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
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The Cook wrote:

> In the book "All About Tomatoes" that was published by Ortho in 1976
> says this: "There is probably as much variation in the pH and acidity
> of tomatoes due to climate, soil, cultural practices and ripeness as
> to variety differences." --U. S. D. A.
>
> Pink, yellow, white, etc tomatoes are not necessarily lower in acid.
> Newer varieties may be higher or lower in pH than the old varieties.
>
> Another quote from the book. "You can't always taste acidity. Note
> on the chart at right that honey is high in acidity" The chart lists
> honey as having a pH of 4.0.


Thank you!

Serene
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In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> jimnginger wrote:
> > On May 15, 3:56?pm, George Shirley > wrote:
> >> Serene wrote:
> >>> Ray West wrote:
> >>>> I've tried the ph metres, non of them work well enough to be of any
> >>>> use, can't even relie on subsequent readings on the same test subject.
> >>>> Got my money back on them.
> >>>> It is well known that most tomatoes run at below ph 4.6 and do not
> >>>> need further acidification,
> >>> Everything I've read lately has said that tomatoes are being bred to be
> >>> less acidic, so this isn't true any more. I'm a little confused now.
> >>> Serene
> >> Don't be, more and more tomatoes and tomato seeds sold in the USA are
> >> only mildly acidic and need the citric acid added or some other acidifier.
> >>
> >> George

> >
> > I think you MAY BE WRONG. From what I have read, tomatoes are not
> > becoming less acidic across the board but what is happening is that
> > tomatoes are being bread the have INCREASED sugar levels. When you
> > increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
> > goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
> > use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
> > amount) and this is dangerous because these are NoN- ACID items and
> > add danger to any canned product unless they are pressure canned. If
> > you think that a tablespoon in a pint of tomatoes is appropriate, then
> > I say you have NEVER canned any tomatoes. Citric Acid, or Sour Salt,
> > is horribley TART and it has to be covered with added SUGAR to the
> > tomatoes to keep them from tasting like little children's sour candy.
> > Just take a pinch of Citric Acid and place it on your tongue. You will
> > then see what I mean. Regards - Jim in So. California


> And where, exactly, in my post did I say you had to add a tablespoon of
> citric acid? Jim, I've been canning tomatoes and other veggies for more
> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
> modern tomatoes.
>
> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
> are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
> the USDA recommended amounts.


I think Jim was responding to combined ideas from separate posts, Jorge
€” and one of them was not your writing. Ms. Edrena (being coffee
deficient and suffering from the vapors) had stated a tablespoon of
citric acid to a pint of tomatoes in her 5/9 post. She was corrected
and contrite for her flub on 5/14. No harm, no foul. Pet the dog and
stay calm.

(I have a great sign that says "Pour the coffee and back away slowly."
"-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
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In article
>,
jimnginger > wrote:

> increase the SUGAR, it covers the acidic "bite" to one's tongue. Thank
> goodness someone covered how much citric acid to use in tomatoes. I
> use one teaspoon as I often add some bell pepper and onion (very small
> amount)


Do you use an actual recipe when you're making your "stewed-type"
tomatoes, Jim? The U of MN (Gophers, go!!) has a tested recipe for
them. It's pretty good. :-)

http://www.extension.umn.edu/foodsaf.../tomatomixture
..pdf

NOTE that that recipe has times for processing in a BWB and that it
doesn't include any specific acidification information. The two most
recently-published tomes I own have recipes for stewed tomatoes (I
haven't compared the proportions of the ingredients, though) but have
processing times for pressure canning.

I might have to ask the folks at the U about that. :-/
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
Check my new ride: http://www.jamlady.eboard.com
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"George Shirley" wrote

> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
> modern tomatoes.
>
> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that are
> somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in the
> USDA recommended amounts.


George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I make
a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black pepper
and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart? What I
have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out how much
water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy <grin>.

I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
safer to assume they are.




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cshenk wrote:
> "George Shirley" wrote
>
>> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
>> modern tomatoes.
>>
>> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that are
>> somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in the
>> USDA recommended amounts.

>
> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
> the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I make
> a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black pepper
> and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart? What I
> have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out how much
> water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy <grin>.
>
> I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
> versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
> safer to assume they are.
>
>

Go here for the answer to your question:

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html

The primary URL for U of Georgia and food safety is a big help to all of
us. It has the safety recommendations from the foods science folks at
UofG and the USDA.

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cshenk wrote:
> "George Shirley" wrote
>
>> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
>> modern tomatoes.
>>
>> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that are
>> somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in the
>> USDA recommended amounts.

>
> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
> the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I make
> a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black pepper
> and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart? What I
> have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out how much
> water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy <grin>.
>
> I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
> versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
> safer to assume they are.
>
>



Use bottled lemon juice -- the cheap stuff in a quart bottle. 1 Tbsp
per pint jar, or 2 Tbsp per quart. That's the recommended amount, and
it shouldn't be enough to make your tomatoes taste "lemony".

Bob
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"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "George Shirley" wrote
>
>> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
>> modern tomatoes.
>>
>> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
>> are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
>> the USDA recommended amounts.

>
> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
> the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I
> make a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black
> pepper and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart?
> What I have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out
> how much water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy
> <grin>.
>
> I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
> versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
> safer to assume they are.
>

If you get a chance, call around to local drug stores or better yet, Jewish,
Mediterranean or Middle Eastern ethnic groceries to find citric acid (sour
salt). One has to use so little of it (!) and it has little taste (just
sour).
Good luck, and let us know how you do. Have your read some of our posts
about letting the jars rest in the water with the heat turned off after the
timing is done for about 5 min or so? Reduces chances of cracking jar. And
don't can nekkid.
Edrena


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The Joneses wrote:
> "cshenk" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "George Shirley" wrote
>>
>>> than sixty years but I'm actually quoting what the USDA has to say about
>>> modern tomatoes.
>>>
>>> If you don't have an accurate pH meter or are not using pH strips that
>>> are somewhat accurate then you need to add citric acid or lemon juice in
>>> the USDA recommended amounts.

>> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this for
>> the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If I
>> make a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as black
>> pepper and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a quart?
>> What I have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can find out
>> how much water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon' pretty easy
>> <grin>.
>>
>> I don't want 'leomony sauce' but I also don't want to be unsafe. I have 3
>> versions of tomatoes and no way to know if they are 'reduced acid' so it's
>> safer to assume they are.
>>

> If you get a chance, call around to local drug stores or better yet, Jewish,
> Mediterranean or Middle Eastern ethnic groceries to find citric acid (sour
> salt). One has to use so little of it (!) and it has little taste (just
> sour).
> Good luck, and let us know how you do. Have your read some of our posts
> about letting the jars rest in the water with the heat turned off after the
> timing is done for about 5 min or so? Reduces chances of cracking jar. And
> don't can nekkid.
> Edrena
>
>

And don't ask how anyone knows not to can nekkid.

George
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"George Shirley" wrote
> cshenk wrote:


>> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this
>> for

> Go here for the answer to your question:
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html


I suppose if I hunt around 30 mins I might even find the info. Thanks





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"zxcvbob" wrote

>> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this
>> for the first time. I have access only to the water boiling methods. If
>> I make a thick sauce with just tomatoes and a few dried spices such as
>> black pepper and a little cayenne, how much lemon juice should I add to a
>> quart? What I have right now is the 'real lemon concentrate' but I can
>> find out how much water to add to that to make 'equal to one lemon'
>> pretty easy <grin>.


> Use bottled lemon juice -- the cheap stuff in a quart bottle. 1 Tbsp per
> pint jar, or 2 Tbsp per quart. That's the recommended amount, and it
> shouldn't be enough to make your tomatoes taste "lemony".


Thanks Bob! Thats what i needed. I'm not adding onions or bell peppers or
sugar or anything but a small amount of seasoning. I plan to decant then
seaon it if you get my drift.


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"The Joneses" wrote

> If you get a chance, call around to local drug stores or better yet,
> Jewish, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern ethnic groceries to find citric
> acid (sour salt). One has to use so little of it (!) and it has little
> taste (just sour).


Humm! Local 'Star of Israel' place here. How much citric acid per quart?

> Good luck, and let us know how you do. Have your read some of our posts
> about letting the jars rest in the water with the heat turned off after
> the timing is done for about 5 min or so? Reduces chances of cracking jar.
> And don't can nekkid.


Hehehe wasnt planning to can nekkid and no, I'm new here so havent seen the
earlier posts much.

My next project will be to remind myself how to make some of th simple
jellies I did years ago. Used the pectin pouches and had nice home stuff.


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cshenk wrote:
> "George Shirley" wrote
>
>>cshenk wrote:

>
>
>>>George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this
>>>for

>>
>>Go here for the answer to your question:
>>
>>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html

>
>
> I suppose if I hunt around 30 mins I might even find the info. Thanks
>
>
>

You would have to be a really slow reader because it is in the very
first paragraph, because of its safety importance, I presume
Ellen
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cshenk wrote:
> "George Shirley" wrote
>> cshenk wrote:

>
>>> George, can we cut to the chase slightly for me? I'd like to try this
>>> for

>> Go here for the answer to your question:
>>
>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html

>
> I suppose if I hunt around 30 mins I might even find the info. Thanks
>
>
>

Took me less than 30 seconds at that site to see what you wanted.
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"cshenk" > wrote in message
...
> "The Joneses" wrote
>
>> If you get a chance, call around to local drug stores or better yet,
>> Jewish, Mediterranean or Middle Eastern ethnic groceries to find citric
>> acid (sour salt). One has to use so little of it (!) and it has little
>> taste (just sour).

>
> Humm! Local 'Star of Israel' place here. How much citric acid per quart?
>
>> Good luck, and let us know how you do. Have your read some of our posts
>> about letting the jars rest in the water with the heat turned off after
>> the timing is done for about 5 min or so? Reduces chances of cracking
>> jar. And don't can nekkid.

>
> Hehehe wasnt planning to can nekkid and no, I'm new here so havent seen
> the earlier posts much.
>
> My next project will be to remind myself how to make some of th simple
> jellies I did years ago. Used the pectin pouches and had nice home
> stuff.
>

I haven't bwb canned tomato products without a recipe. You have to look up
the correct data yerownself by using USDA approved recipes (or method) or
using a calibrated test meter. Checking latest edition canning books outa
the liberry, or emailing your County Extension Agent will get some good
recipes. Leetle work for good health for self & loved ones. There, all
that's proper. The sour salt from the Jeruselem Grocery was the cheapest in
my city. Drug store wanted to special order.....
The USDA and our experience shows that leaving the jars in the water for a
bit equalizes the pressures/temps and there is less a chance of cooler air
causing the hot jars to explode. Hence the canning with at least an apron
on. And not barefoot either. Sooner or later y'all might have an exploder,
or knock a jar enough to crack it.
We've shared some dandy jam/jelly stuff here, would do you good to google
recipes from just this group for the past couple years. Not really all that
many, unlike the rest of the web, but ours have been tested and we mostly
use USDA approved methods. My favorites were the triple apricot jam (I
adapted that one cause I only had part of the stuff - I called it Apricot
Squared), an apricot pineapple one, a few combination spreads with nuts or
chiles from Minnesota, not to mention Boozeberry Jam.
Pickle talk otoh, makes me high from the vinegar fumes, so we'll leave
that for another chat.
Edrena, faithful disciple of St. Vinaigrette
Holy Order of the Sacred Sisters & Brothers of St. Pectina of Jella
(HOSS&BSPJ) (a wholly non-partisan, seriously silly group)


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