I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket near
Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade.
This year I am folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the
University of Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?).
This link is the recipe but not the original copy:
http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade

My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
orange juice/peel to make marmalade?

Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges.
Delia Smith uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.

I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to add
about 2.2 liters of water.

Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with raspberry
jam !

"Topaz" > wrote in message
...
>I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket near
> Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade.
> This year I am folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the
> University of Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?).
> This link is the recipe but not the original copy:
> http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges.
> Delia Smith uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to add
> about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with raspberry
> jam !

I would assume that it will evaporate as you cook it down to the gel stage,
which could take awhile

Kathi

Topaz wrote:
> I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> the original copy:
> http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> raspberry jam !

One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
it.").

You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
will achieve the former condition.

B/

On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> Topaz wrote:
> > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > the original copy:
> >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? *I would never do this with
> > raspberry jam !
>
> One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> American" is a preference in flavors. *UK people seem to prefer a more
> longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> it.").
>
> You're using UK recipes. *Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> will achieve the former condition.
>
> B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Thank you for your replies.
The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.

How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?

Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
Topaz

"Topaz" > wrote in message
...
On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
> Topaz wrote:
> > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > the original copy:
> >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > raspberry jam !
>
> One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> it.").
>
> You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> will achieve the former condition.
>
> B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Thank you for your replies.
The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.

How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?

Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
Topaz

----------------------------------------------------

I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.

Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water and
simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit was
added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar, bring to
a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.

My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it. I've
never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the taste
anyway.

Kathi

On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Topaz wrote:
> > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > > the original copy:
> > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > raspberry jam !
>
> > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> > it.").
>
> > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Thank you for your replies.
> The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> extract the pectin from the pips, etc. *This can take place at a low
> simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> Topaz
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water and
> simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. *Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. *Add the sugar, bring to
> a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it. *I've
> never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the taste
> anyway.
>
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Thank you Kathi,
I like that; I think my next batch will be done your way.
(PS. Another alternative: boil the oranges/lemons WHOLE till skin is
soft, then go the low or short way. Might try that too - but short
way !)

On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Topaz wrote:
> > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > > the original copy:
> > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > raspberry jam !
>
> > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> > it.").
>
> > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Thank you for your replies.
> The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> extract the pectin from the pips, etc. *This can take place at a low
> simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> Topaz
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water and
> simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. *Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. *Add the sugar, bring to
> a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it. *I've
> never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the taste
> anyway.
>
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I was too quick! There are a couple of things I'd like more details
about.
Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
right ?
chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
peel has not
been used in Part 1? If so how many?
How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
Thanks in advance,
Topaz

"Topaz" > wrote in message
...
On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Topaz wrote:
> > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > > the original copy:
> > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > raspberry jam !
>
> > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> > it.").
>
> > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Thank you for your replies.
> The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
> simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> Topaz
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water
> and
> simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar, bring
> to
> a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it. I've
> never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the taste
> anyway.
>
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

I was too quick! There are a couple of things I'd like more details
about.
Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
right ?
chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
peel has not
been used in Part 1? If so how many?
How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
Thanks in advance,
Topaz

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
-Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
-Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
soda.
-Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
-Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
-Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
-Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
minute.
-Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
-Pour in to jars and process.

I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.

This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
document of the package insert can be found here
http://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/do..._Liquid_EN.pdf it is the
'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red

good luck,
Kathi

On 7 feb, 15:37, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
> > > Topaz wrote:
> > > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but not
> > > > the original copy:
> > > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > > raspberry jam !
>
> > > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out of
> > > it.").
>
> > > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > Thank you for your replies.
> > The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> > extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
> > simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> > Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> > reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> > Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> > How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> > I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> > then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> > What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> > Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> > Topaz
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> > Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water
> > and
> > simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> > added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar, bring
> > to
> > a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> > My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it. I've
> > never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the taste
> > anyway.
>
> > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> I was too quick! *There are a couple of things I'd like more details
> about.
> Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
> Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
> right ?
> * * * * * *chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
> peel has not
> * * * * * *been used in Part 1? *If so how many?
> How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
> Thanks in advance,
> Topaz
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*--------
>
> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
> soda.
> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
> minute.
> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch *Certo Liquid Pectin.
> -Pour in to jars and process.
>
> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. *The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>
> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. *A pdf
> document of the package insert can be found herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf*it is the
> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' *in red
>
> good luck,
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Many thanks, Kathi.
I will give it a try !
Topaz

"Topaz" > wrote in message
...
On 7 feb, 15:37, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
> > > Topaz wrote:
> > > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but
> > > > not
> > > > the original copy:
> > > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > > raspberry jam !
>
> > > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out
> > > of
> > > it.").
>
> > > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > Thank you for your replies.
> > The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> > extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
> > simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> > Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> > reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> > Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> > How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> > I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> > then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> > What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> > Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> > Topaz
>
> > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> > Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water
> > and
> > simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> > added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar, bring
> > to
> > a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> > My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it.
> > I've
> > never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the
> > taste
> > anyway.
>
> > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> I was too quick! There are a couple of things I'd like more details
> about.
> Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
> Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
> right ?
> chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
> peel has not
> been used in Part 1? If so how many?
> How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
> Thanks in advance,
> Topaz
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------*--------
>
> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
> soda.
> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
> minute.
> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
> -Pour in to jars and process.
>
> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>
> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
> document of the package insert can be found
> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it is
> the
> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>
> good luck,
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Many thanks, Kathi.
I will give it a try !
Topaz

you are welcome - let me know how it goes,

Kathi

>
> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
> soda.
> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
> minute.
> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch *Certo Liquid Pectin.
> -Pour in to jars and process.
>
> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. *The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>
> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. *A pdf
> document of the package insert can be found herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf*it is the
> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' *in red
>
> good luck,
> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?

SCUBApix wrote:
>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
>> soda.
>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
>> minute.
>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>
>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>
>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
>> document of the package insert can be found herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it is the
>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>
>> good luck,
>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.

George

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
...
> SCUBApix wrote:
>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
>>> baking
>>> soda.
>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
>>> one
>>> minute.
>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>
>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>> have
>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>
>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
>>> pdf
>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it
>>> is the
>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>
>>> good luck,
>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and then
> BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>
> George

But of course! I always put my clean empty jars in the canner, boil them as
I make the jam/jelly/marmalade (stuff), take the hot jars from the canner,
fill hot jars with hot stuff, wipe rims, place new 2 piece lid (which have
also been simmered in hot water) on finger tip tight, place back in canner
and BWB.

The BWB gives the 'safe' seal. If it isn't done, jars still may seal
because of hot lids cooling on hot jars, but I wouldn't consider that a
'safe' seal.

I've seen here that some people don't boil the jars before filling because
they say that the boiling hot 'stuff' is safe as it is. I've also seen
people say that they invert the jars for a seal (no BWB), or they put hot
lids on hot jars to get a seal (no BWB). These are 3 methods that I NEVER
do and will NEVER recommend.

I share my preserved goods with many people - I would NEVER want to be
responsible for someone getting sick, just because I didn't follow
recommended guidelines.

I hope that helps,

Kathi

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
> ...
>> SCUBApix wrote:
>>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
>>>> baking
>>>> soda.
>>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
>>>> one
>>>> minute.
>>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>>
>>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>>> have
>>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>>
>>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
>>>> pdf
>>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it
>>>> is the
>>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>>
>>>> good luck,
>>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and then
>> BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>
>> George
>
> But of course! I always put my clean empty jars in the canner, boil them as
> I make the jam/jelly/marmalade (stuff), take the hot jars from the canner,
> fill hot jars with hot stuff, wipe rims, place new 2 piece lid (which have
> also been simmered in hot water) on finger tip tight, place back in canner
> and BWB.
>
> The BWB gives the 'safe' seal. If it isn't done, jars still may seal
> because of hot lids cooling on hot jars, but I wouldn't consider that a
> 'safe' seal.
>
> I've seen here that some people don't boil the jars before filling because
> they say that the boiling hot 'stuff' is safe as it is. I've also seen
> people say that they invert the jars for a seal (no BWB), or they put hot
> lids on hot jars to get a seal (no BWB). These are 3 methods that I NEVER
> do and will NEVER recommend.
>
> I share my preserved goods with many people - I would NEVER want to be
> responsible for someone getting sick, just because I didn't follow
> recommended guidelines.
>
> I hope that helps,
>
> Kathi
Good for you Kathi, that's the way I was taught to do it too. No point
in putting by the good stuff if it makes someone ill. I was pretty sure
we had had this discussion before but didn't want to take a chance.

George

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
. ..
> Kathi Jones wrote:
>> "George Shirley" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> SCUBApix wrote:
>>>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
>>>>> baking
>>>>> soda.
>>>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
>>>>> one
>>>>> minute.
>>>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>>>> have
>>>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>>>
>>>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
>>>>> pdf
>>>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf
>>>>> it is the
>>>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>>>
>>>>> good luck,
>>>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>>> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> But of course! I always put my clean empty jars in the canner, boil them
>> as I make the jam/jelly/marmalade (stuff), take the hot jars from the
>> canner, fill hot jars with hot stuff, wipe rims, place new 2 piece lid
>> (which have also been simmered in hot water) on finger tip tight, place
>> back in canner and BWB.
>>
>> The BWB gives the 'safe' seal. If it isn't done, jars still may seal
>> because of hot lids cooling on hot jars, but I wouldn't consider that a
>> 'safe' seal.
>>
>> I've seen here that some people don't boil the jars before filling
>> because they say that the boiling hot 'stuff' is safe as it is. I've
>> also seen people say that they invert the jars for a seal (no BWB), or
>> they put hot lids on hot jars to get a seal (no BWB). These are 3
>> methods that I NEVER do and will NEVER recommend.
>>
>> I share my preserved goods with many people - I would NEVER want to be
>> responsible for someone getting sick, just because I didn't follow
>> recommended guidelines.
>>
>> I hope that helps,
>>
>> Kathi
> Good for you Kathi, that's the way I was taught to do it too. No point in
> putting by the good stuff if it makes someone ill. I was pretty sure we
> had had this discussion before but didn't want to take a chance.
>
> George

No problem, George. Better safe than sorry, right?

Kathi

George Shirley wrote:
>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.

Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I have
never done so.

Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers

http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html

http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html

http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
> George Shirley wrote:
>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>
> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I have
> never done so.
>
> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>

(shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed disks....do you
actually use those?

Kathi

Kathi Jones wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>
>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
>> have never done so.
>>
>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>>
>
> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
> disks....do you actually use those?

Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was speachless

We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.

On 8 feb, 00:15, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 7 feb, 15:37, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
> > > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> > ....
> > > On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
> > > > Topaz wrote:
> > > > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I am
> > > > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University of
> > > > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but
> > > > > not
> > > > > the original copy:
> > > > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > > > raspberry jam !
>
> > > > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > > > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a more
> > > > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste like
> > > > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North Americans
> > > > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out
> > > > of
> > > > it.").
>
> > > > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it down
> > > > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > > > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > > Thank you for your replies.
> > > The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> > > extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
> > > simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> > > Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> > > reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> > > Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> > > How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> > > I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> > > then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> > > What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> > > Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> > > Topaz
>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> > > Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups water
> > > and
> > > simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit was
> > > added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar, bring
> > > to
> > > a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> > > My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it.
> > > I've
> > > never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the
> > > taste
> > > anyway.
>
> > > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > I was too quick! There are a couple of things I'd like more details
> > about.
> > Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
> > Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
> > right ?
> > chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
> > peel has not
> > been used in Part 1? If so how many?
> > How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Topaz
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------**--------
>
> > ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> > -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> > -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
> > soda.
> > -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> > -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> > cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> > -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> > -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
> > minute.
> > -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
> > -Pour in to jars and process.
>
> > I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I have
> > to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>
> > This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
> > document of the package insert can be found
> > herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdfit is
> > the
> > 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>
> > good luck,
> > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Many thanks, Kathi.
> I will give it a try !
> Topaz
>
> you are welcome - let me know how it goes,
>
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Feedback:
I made a batch last night following (+/-) "your"/Certo method.
The taste is certainly lighter than long-cooked marmalade: it is a
nice change AND
energy saving !
I didn't add baking soda when softening the match-sticked peel. I
wonder what it is supposed to do ?
I still had soft peel.
I squeezed the juice out using a simple extractor instead of
chopping.
(I didn't want the thin membrane that covers the segments, I have read
that it is bad for taste).
When scrapping out half the white pith, I could get rid of the
membrane at the same time.
We don't have liquid pectin readily available in Belgium so I used a
pectin-added sugar.
Very pleased with the results, thanks.
Topaz.
PS. I sterilize my jam-jars, before filling, in the oven after
washing and a good rince.
I am not so fussy with the tops; they just get a wash and rince.
No sterilization after filling; turn upside down though, for a good
air-tight seal.

Ophelia wrote:
> Kathi Jones wrote:
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
>>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
>>> have never done so.
>>>
>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>>
>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>>
>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>>>
>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>>>
>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
>> disks....do you actually use those?
>
> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was speachless
>
> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
>
>
Here in the U.S. we have certain food safety laws and rules, which may
or may not apply to home canners that call for certain things. One of
which is the Boiling Water Bath for five or ten minutes for high sugar
content items. While the law may not apply to home canned goods many of
us give away or sell such goods. When you sell them the law applies. In
addition many states have complimentary laws about the same thing.

Our country is so large, with such a diverse population that food safety
laws are a necessity. Even with those laws we still have outbreaks of e.
Coli poisoning, multiple cases of food poisoning from unsanitary food
preparation, etc. Most of us here, particularly the regulars on this
newsgroup, tend to stick with the rules as laid out for us by the U.S.
Department of Agriculture.

That being said, I grew up, as did many others herein, inverting jars,
using paraffin wax seals, etc. I also remember having to throw out many
jars of spoiled food due to seal failure. Once I switched to proper
canning procedures I seldom have had to toss a spoiled jar. I can only
remember once instance in the last thirty years. YMMV

George

George Shirley wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>> Kathi Jones wrote:
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
>>>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
>>>> have never done so.
>>>>
>>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>>>>
>>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
>>> disks....do you actually use those?
>>
>> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
>> speachless We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
>>
>>
> Here in the U.S. we have certain food safety laws and rules, which may
> or may not apply to home canners that call for certain things. One of
> which is the Boiling Water Bath for five or ten minutes for high sugar
> content items. While the law may not apply to home canned goods many
> of us give away or sell such goods. When you sell them the law
> applies. In addition many states have complimentary laws about the
> same thing.
> Our country is so large, with such a diverse population that food
> safety laws are a necessity. Even with those laws we still have
> outbreaks of e. Coli poisoning, multiple cases of food poisoning from
> unsanitary food preparation, etc. Most of us here, particularly the
> regulars on this newsgroup, tend to stick with the rules as laid out
> for us by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
>
> That being said, I grew up, as did many others herein, inverting jars,
> using paraffin wax seals, etc. I also remember having to throw out
> many jars of spoiled food due to seal failure. Once I switched to
> proper canning procedures I seldom have had to toss a spoiled jar. I
> can only remember once instance in the last thirty years. YMMV

Thank you George! I wasn't disrespecting your way of doing it you know!

"Topaz" > wrote in message
...
On 8 feb, 00:15, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
> "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> On 7 feb, 15:37, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > On 6 feb, 13:51, "Kathi Jones" > wrote:
>
> > > "Topaz" > wrote in message
>
> > ...
> > > On 5 feb, 18:42, Brian Mailman > wrote:
>
> > > > Topaz wrote:
> > > > > I have made my annual trip to Stonemanor, the British supermarket
> > > > > near Brussels, to buy Seville oranges for Marmalade. This year I
> > > > > am
> > > > > folllowing Alan J. Flavell's recipe (used to be on the University
> > > > > of
> > > > > Glasgow site; where is it/Alan now?). This link is the recipe but
> > > > > not
> > > > > the original copy:
> > > > >http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/...html#marmalade
>
> > > > > My question is: why, unlike jam, do you add so much water to the
> > > > > orange juice/peel to make marmalade?
>
> > > > > Alan's recipe uses 3 liters water for 1 kg of oranges. Delia Smith
> > > > > uses 5 liters : 1.35 kg.
>
> > > > > I got just over 300 mls juice from 800 grams of oranges; I plan to
> > > > > add about 2.2 liters of water.
>
> > > > > Doesn't this dilute the flavour? I would never do this with
> > > > > raspberry jam !
>
> > > > One of the differences between the UK-style preserves and "North
> > > > American" is a preference in flavors. UK people seem to prefer a
> > > > more
> > > > longer cooked-type flavo/ur (I've read "if we wanted it to taste
> > > > like
> > > > fresh fruit, we'd eat fresh fruit), and non-Anglophile North
> > > > Americans
> > > > like a brighter fresher flavor ("oh, ick, you've cooked the life out
> > > > of
> > > > it.").
>
> > > > You're using UK recipes. Adding so much water and then cooking it
> > > > down
> > > > will achieve the former condition.
>
> > > > B/- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > > Thank you for your replies.
> > > The long cooking time for marmalade is a) to soften the peel and b) to
> > > extract the pectin from the pips, etc. This can take place at a low
> > > simmer for 1 to 2 hours, lid on and with little evaporation.
> > > Only at the end do you turn the heat up to do a "rolling" boil to
> > > reach setting point (plus 100°C), and without a lid.
> > > Since this is short, any evaporation is probably limited.
>
> > > How do you reduce the cooking time in N. American recipes?
> > > I have read recipes where the a) and b) above are done apart from, and
> > > then added to, the main mixture for the final setting-boil.
> > > What water ratios do N. American recipes use ?
>
> > > Marmalde, that's a product with passion !
> > > Topaz
>
> > > ----------------------------------------------------
>
> > > I cheated and used liquid pectin to achieve a good set.
>
> > > Peel from 3 oranges and 2 lemons was placed in a pot with 1.5 cups
> > > water
> > > and
> > > simmered, covered, for 20 minutes. Then the juice and chopped fruit
> > > was
> > > added and simmered, covered for another 20 minutes. Add the sugar,
> > > bring
> > > to
> > > a boil for a minute, remove from heat, add pectin.
>
> > > My marmalade has tender peel and a fresher taste, the way I like it.
> > > I've
> > > never had much luck with the long cooked recipes, nor did I like the
> > > taste
> > > anyway.
>
> > > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> > I was too quick! There are a couple of things I'd like more details
> > about.
> > Part 1: peel and simmer is clear.
> > Part 2: add juice, that's the juice from the 3 oranges + 2 lemons,
> > right ?
> > chopped fruit, what is that? Do you add more oranges whose
> > peel has not
> > been used in Part 1? If so how many?
> > How many pots do you get (and approx. size of pot if poss.) ?
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Topaz
>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------**--------
>
> > ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> > -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> > -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
> > baking
> > soda.
> > -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> > -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> > cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> > -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> > -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
> > one
> > minute.
> > -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
> > -Pour in to jars and process.
>
> > I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
> > have
> > to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>
> > This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
> > pdf
> > document of the package insert can be found
> > herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdfit
> > is
> > the
> > 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>
> > good luck,
> > Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> > - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
>
> Many thanks, Kathi.
> I will give it a try !
> Topaz
>
> you are welcome - let me know how it goes,
>
> Kathi- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Feedback:
I made a batch last night following (+/-) "your"/Certo method.
The taste is certainly lighter than long-cooked marmalade: it is a
nice change AND
energy saving !
I didn't add baking soda when softening the match-sticked peel. I
wonder what it is supposed to do ?
I still had soft peel.
I squeezed the juice out using a simple extractor instead of
chopping.
(I didn't want the thin membrane that covers the segments, I have read
that it is bad for taste).
When scrapping out half the white pith, I could get rid of the
membrane at the same time.
We don't have liquid pectin readily available in Belgium so I used a
pectin-added sugar.
Very pleased with the results, thanks.
Topaz.
PS. I sterilize my jam-jars, before filling, in the oven after
washing and a good rince.
I am not so fussy with the tops; they just get a wash and rince.
No sterilization after filling; turn upside down though, for a good
air-tight seal.

-------------

excellent! Yes I understand the desire to eliminate the membrane. I made 2
batches myself, one with chopped fruit, and one where I did what you did -
juiced the friut and removed the membrane when scraping the pith. For me,
it was a texture thing. Both batches turned out fine.

I'm not sure about the baking soda, but I think it has something to do with
foaming? Just a guess.

Kathi

Ophelia wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>
>>>>I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>
>>>jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>
>>Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>>then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>
>
> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I have
> never done so.
>
> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>
> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>
>
Since jams, etc. are relatively low risk foods, if you don't get mold on
it you shouldn't have a problem. If you do have mold you should chuck
the whole jar's contents,not scrape it off. Having said all of that I
do BWB my jams and jellies.
Ellen

ellen wickberg wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>> George Shirley wrote:
>>
>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>>
>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>
>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>
>>
>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
>> have never done so.
>>
>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...e,1223,RC.html
>>
>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...e,1056,RC.html
>>
>>
> Since jams, etc. are relatively low risk foods, if you don't get mold
> on it you shouldn't have a problem. If you do have mold you should
> chuck the whole jar's contents,not scrape it off. Having said all of
> that I do BWB my jams and jellies.

Thanks Ellen. I will read up on this. I rarely get mould on my jams so if
I do I will throw it away.

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> SCUBApix wrote:
> >> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> >> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> >> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
> >> soda.
> >> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> >> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> >> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> >> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> >> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
> >> minute.
> >> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
> >> -Pour in to jars and process.
> >>
> >> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
> >> have
> >> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
> >>
> >> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
> >> document of the package insert can be found
> >> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it is
> >> the
> >> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
> >>
> >> good luck,
> >> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >
> > I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
> > jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>
> George

If you process them in the BWB for 10 minutes or more, Jorge, you don't
have to sterilize them before filling -- just have them clean and hot.

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> Kathi Jones wrote:
> > "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> George Shirley wrote:
> >>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
> >>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> >>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
> >>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
> >>
> >> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
> >> have never done so.
> >>
> >> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
> >>
> >> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
> >>
> >> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...-marmalade,122
> >> 3,RC.html
> >>
> >> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...rve,1056,RC.ht
> >> ml
> >>
> >
> > (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
> > disks....do you actually use those?
>
> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was speachless
>
> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.

Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I don't
particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing things.
Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If so, are those
commonly processed in a waterbath? Do you have the two-piece lid and
ring closure that we have or do you do something more along the lines of
a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal clips? I'm curious.
-B, wondering where in the heck those little circles are . . . .


--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> Kathi Jones wrote:
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
>>>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>>>
>>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
>>>> have never done so.
>>>>
>>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...-marmalade,122
>>>> 3,RC.html
>>>>
>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...rve,1056,RC.ht
>>>> ml
>>>>
>>>
>>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
>>> disks....do you actually use those?
>>
>> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
>> speachless
>>
>> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
>
> Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
> Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I don't
> particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing things.
> Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If so, are
> those commonly processed in a waterbath?

Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.

Do you have the two-piece
> lid and ring closure that we have

Yes I do


or do you do something more along
> the lines of a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal clips?
> I'm curious. -B, wondering where in the heck those little circles are

We have both

This is where I get my supplies

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/productlis...eas/preserving

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> SCUBApix wrote:
>>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon baking
>>>> soda.
>>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for one
>>>> minute.
>>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>>
>>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>>> have
>>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>>
>>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A pdf
>>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it is
>>>> the
>>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>>
>>>> good luck,
>>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>
>> George
>
> If you process them in the BWB for 10 minutes or more, Jorge, you don't
> have to sterilize them before filling -- just have them clean and hot.
>
The way I work it they get clean, hot, and sterilized. When I'm
preparing to make jam or jelly I put the BWB pot on the stove first,
full of jars and water with about a tablespoon of white vinegar in the
water. Our city water is very high in calcium and can leave white
deposits on jars. Even on the new gas stove and on a 16,500 btu burner
it takes a bit to get that much water boiling.

Once the jelly or jam is ready to be jarred I lift the jars, one by one,
out of the pot with a pair of tongs, emptying the water from the jar as
I do it. Jars are hot, clean, and, mostly sterilized by that action.

When jars are full, rims wiped clean with a wet paper towel, hot lids in
place, and rings screwed on hand-tight they go back in the BWB for
processing. By leaving the BWB lid on during the filling I speed up the
boiling process enough that it doesn't take long to start the processing
of the jars.

My jars are stored in the original boxes in a closet in my home office.
Although we don't have much in the way of insects or other vermin I
prefer to ensure the jars are very clean and hot before filling. YMMV

George

"George Shirley" > wrote in message
.. .
> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>> In article >,
>> George Shirley > wrote:
>>
>>> SCUBApix wrote:
>>>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
>>>>> baking
>>>>> soda.
>>>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
>>>>> one
>>>>> minute.
>>>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>>>
>>>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>>>> have
>>>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>>>
>>>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
>>>>> pdf
>>>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf
>>>>> it is the
>>>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>>>
>>>>> good luck,
>>>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>>> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>>
>>> George
>>
>> If you process them in the BWB for 10 minutes or more, Jorge, you don't
>> have to sterilize them before filling -- just have them clean and hot.
>>
> The way I work it they get clean, hot, and sterilized. When I'm preparing
> to make jam or jelly I put the BWB pot on the stove first, full of jars
> and water with about a tablespoon of white vinegar in the water. Our city
> water is very high in calcium and can leave white deposits on jars. Even
> on the new gas stove and on a 16,500 btu burner it takes a bit to get that
> much water boiling.
>
> Once the jelly or jam is ready to be jarred I lift the jars, one by one,
> out of the pot with a pair of tongs, emptying the water from the jar as I
> do it. Jars are hot, clean, and, mostly sterilized by that action.
>
> When jars are full, rims wiped clean with a wet paper towel, hot lids in
> place, and rings screwed on hand-tight they go back in the BWB for
> processing. By leaving the BWB lid on during the filling I speed up the
> boiling process enough that it doesn't take long to start the processing
> of the jars.
>
> My jars are stored in the original boxes in a closet in my home office.
> Although we don't have much in the way of insects or other vermin I prefer
> to ensure the jars are very clean and hot before filling. YMMV
>
> George

ohmygosh! so, not to say 'me too me too' but I do exactly the same as
George! The jam filled jars are gonna go in to the canner, so why not take
the empty jars out of it? And y'know what I do with the boiling water that
has to be poured out of the sterilized jars? I pour it on the lids! Yup!
The boiling water from the sterilized jars goes on to the 2 piece lids (they
are in a pot of their own)- thereby heating them up and softening the
compound.

as a side note - My mom taught me to make jams and jellies. We put our jam
in to old baby food jars. I don't know if they were sterilized first. And
we sealed with paraffin!!

Yes! We did!

Kathi

ellen wickberg wrote:
> If you do have mold you should chuck
> the whole jar's contents,not scrape it off. Having said all of that I
> do BWB my jams and jellies.
> Ellen

And, having read all that, I've scraped plenty of mold from jams in my life!

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...

> > Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
> > Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I don't
> > particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing things.
> > Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If so, are
> > those commonly processed in a waterbath?
>
> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
>

I hope that when you process tomatos in a waterbath that you
acidify them with lemon juice. Many varieties of tomatoes today
have been found to not have enough acid to be safely BWB canned
without adding acid.

For most healthy adults, about the worst you will get from a contaminated
high acid canning is a case of the Hershy Squirts. It can be a lot worse
for older folks or children, though. But, there's a number of cases of
people killed and/or severly sick from botulism poisoning as a result
of canned tomatos that were not acidified, or pressure canned. There
was a case not too long ago where the CDC tested around 50 jars of
home-canned tomato sauce that was BWB. 48 of the jars tested negative,
2 had rip-roaring Botulism cultures going, that were centered in large
chunks of tomatos in the jars. A pretty game of Russian Roulette, that.

(They tested the 50 jars because the family that did the canning had
a number of members that had to spend a couple weeks in Iron Lungs,
surviving a Botulism attack)

Ted

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>> Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
>>> Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I
>>> don't particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing
>>> things. Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If
>>> so, are those commonly processed in a waterbath?
>>
>> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
>>
>
> I hope that when you process tomatos in a waterbath that you
> acidify them with lemon juice. Many varieties of tomatoes today
> have been found to not have enough acid to be safely BWB canned
> without adding acid.

Barb was kind enough to send me a Ball blue book some years ago which is
what I have followed since, when bottling/canning

> For most healthy adults, about the worst you will get from a
> contaminated high acid canning is a case of the Hershy Squirts. It
> can be a lot worse for older folks or children, though. But, there's
> a number of cases of people killed and/or severly sick from botulism
> poisoning as a result
> of canned tomatos that were not acidified, or pressure canned. There
> was a case not too long ago where the CDC tested around 50 jars of
> home-canned tomato sauce that was BWB. 48 of the jars tested
> negative, 2 had rip-roaring Botulism cultures going, that were
> centered in large chunks of tomatos in the jars. A pretty game of
> Russian Roulette, that.
>
> (They tested the 50 jars because the family that did the canning had
> a number of members that had to spend a couple weeks in Iron Lungs,
> surviving a Botulism attack)

I have been preserving food for more than 40 years and have never made
anyone ill so far.
When my children where at home I did a lot. In later years much less but I
still enjoy doing a little

In article >,
George Shirley > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > George Shirley > wrote:
> >
> >> SCUBApix wrote:
> >>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
> >>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
> >>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
> >>>> baking
> >>>> soda.
> >>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
> >>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
> >>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
> >>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
> >>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
> >>>> one
> >>>> minute.
> >>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
> >>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
> >>>>
> >>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
> >>>> have
> >>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
> >>>>
> >>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
> >>>> pdf
> >>>> document of the package insert can be found
> >>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it
> >>>> is
> >>>> the
> >>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
> >>>>
> >>>> good luck,
> >>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
> >>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> >> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
> >> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
> >>
> >> George
> >
> > If you process them in the BWB for 10 minutes or more, Jorge, you don't
> > have to sterilize them before filling -- just have them clean and hot.
> >
> The way I work it they get clean, hot, and sterilized. When I'm
> preparing to make jam or jelly I put the BWB pot on the stove first,
> full of jars and water with about a tablespoon of white vinegar in the
> water. Our city water is very high in calcium and can leave white
> deposits on jars. Even on the new gas stove and on a 16,500 btu burner
> it takes a bit to get that much water boiling.
>
> Once the jelly or jam is ready to be jarred I lift the jars, one by one,
> out of the pot with a pair of tongs, emptying the water from the jar as
> I do it. Jars are hot, clean, and, mostly sterilized by that action.
>
> When jars are full, rims wiped clean with a wet paper towel, hot lids in
> place, and rings screwed on hand-tight they go back in the BWB for
> processing. By leaving the BWB lid on during the filling I speed up the
> boiling process enough that it doesn't take long to start the processing
> of the jars.
>
> My jars are stored in the original boxes in a closet in my home office.
> Although we don't have much in the way of insects or other vermin I
> prefer to ensure the jars are very clean and hot before filling. YMMV
>
> George

I do similar but I don't boil the empty jars for 10 minutes to sterilize
them. I start my clean jars in hot water with a glug of vinegar and
commence to making my jam or jelly. By the time the jam is ready to
jar, I remove the jars from the water, put them on a clean towel to
drain a bit, and put the lids into the hot or simmering water while i
fill the jars. Then back into the bwb for a 10-minute gentle boil.

Have you noticed current instructions to let the processed jars sit in
the water for 5 minutes before removing them? I first ran across it in
the big Ball Book; Elizabeth Andress at the NCHFP said that
Jarden's*work with lids has shown the extra five minutes helps ensure a
good seal and reduce the chance of leakage after the jars are removed
from the canner and that's what they (UGA folks) are recommending in the
current So Easy To Preserve, too. They also changed their pressure
canning steps to waiting 10 minutes after taking the weight off, before
removing the lid, for the same reason.* (USDA used to say 2 minutes)*
Again, not related to the safety of the product, but*a desire to be
consistent with the industry and lessen the chances of problems and seal
failures. I thought that was interesting.

http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...s_canners.html

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> George Shirley > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> George Shirley > wrote:
>>>
>>>> SCUBApix wrote:
>>>>>> ok, quarter and peel 3 oranges and 2 lemons.
>>>>>> -Scrape off half the white pith then cut peels in to thin slivers.
>>>>>> -Place slivered peel in a pot with 1.5 cups water and 1/8 teaspoon
>>>>>> baking
>>>>>> soda.
>>>>>> -Cover and simmer 20 minutes.
>>>>>> -Chop the fruit from those 3 oranges and 2 lemons and add that to the
>>>>>> cooking peel (you should have 3 cups total)
>>>>>> -Cover and simmer another 10 minutes.
>>>>>> -Then add 5 cups sugar and bring to a full rolling boil, boil hard for
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> minute.
>>>>>> -Remove from heat, stir in 1 pouch Certo Liquid Pectin.
>>>>>> -Pour in to jars and process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got 6 X 250 ml jars. The peel tends to float to the top so I find I
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to gently rotate the jars as the marmalade sets up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This recipe is taken directly from the Certo Liquid Pectin package. A
>>>>>> pdf
>>>>>> document of the package insert can be found
>>>>>> herehttp://www.kraftcanada.com/Assets/docs/Certo/Certo_Liquid_EN.pdf it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> 'orange marmalade under cooked jams' in red
>>>>>>
>>>>>> good luck,
>>>>>> Kathi- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize the
>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using and
>>>> then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
>>>>
>>>> George
>>> If you process them in the BWB for 10 minutes or more, Jorge, you don't
>>> have to sterilize them before filling -- just have them clean and hot.
>>>
>> The way I work it they get clean, hot, and sterilized. When I'm
>> preparing to make jam or jelly I put the BWB pot on the stove first,
>> full of jars and water with about a tablespoon of white vinegar in the
>> water. Our city water is very high in calcium and can leave white
>> deposits on jars. Even on the new gas stove and on a 16,500 btu burner
>> it takes a bit to get that much water boiling.
>>
>> Once the jelly or jam is ready to be jarred I lift the jars, one by one,
>> out of the pot with a pair of tongs, emptying the water from the jar as
>> I do it. Jars are hot, clean, and, mostly sterilized by that action.
>>
>> When jars are full, rims wiped clean with a wet paper towel, hot lids in
>> place, and rings screwed on hand-tight they go back in the BWB for
>> processing. By leaving the BWB lid on during the filling I speed up the
>> boiling process enough that it doesn't take long to start the processing
>> of the jars.
>>
>> My jars are stored in the original boxes in a closet in my home office.
>> Although we don't have much in the way of insects or other vermin I
>> prefer to ensure the jars are very clean and hot before filling. YMMV
>>
>> George
>
> I do similar but I don't boil the empty jars for 10 minutes to sterilize
> them. I start my clean jars in hot water with a glug of vinegar and
> commence to making my jam or jelly. By the time the jam is ready to
> jar, I remove the jars from the water, put them on a clean towel to
> drain a bit, and put the lids into the hot or simmering water while i
> fill the jars. Then back into the bwb for a 10-minute gentle boil.
>
> Have you noticed current instructions to let the processed jars sit in
> the water for 5 minutes before removing them? I first ran across it in
> the big Ball Book; Elizabeth Andress at the NCHFP said that
> Jarden's work with lids has shown the extra five minutes helps ensure a
> good seal and reduce the chance of leakage after the jars are removed
> from the canner and that's what they (UGA folks) are recommending in the
> current So Easy To Preserve, too. They also changed their pressure
> canning steps to waiting 10 minutes after taking the weight off, before
> removing the lid, for the same reason. (USDA used to say 2 minutes)
> Again, not related to the safety of the product, but a desire to be
> consistent with the industry and lessen the chances of problems and seal
> failures. I thought that was interesting.
>
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...w_canners.html
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publication...s_canners.html
>
Yes, I had seen the part about the extra five minutes and have adopted
that. Normally on pressure canning I use the method of taking the lid
off and tossing a tea towel over the canner, let it sit five or ten
minutes and then remove the jars from the canner. Had not seen the ten
minute with the lid still on but it sounds feasible so will adopt that
method instead.

It's just easier for me to bring the mass of the BWB to a boil with the
empty jars in it while I am making the jam or jelly and then fill. I
find that the jars dry quickly when they have been boiled and then the
water poured out. I generally have my lids in a separate small pan with
simmering water for about five to ten minutes and have had no problems
with failing seals as yet.

I think that I shall buy a bushel of shelled black eyed peas this summer
and can them as they are a favorite around here.

George

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Ophelia" > wrote:
> >
> >> Kathi Jones wrote:
> >>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> George Shirley wrote:
> >>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> >>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before using
> >>>>> and then BWB process. That is generally what is called for.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and I
> >>>> have never done so.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...ge-marmalade,1
> >>>> 22
> >>>> 3,RC.html
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...eserve,1056,RC.
> >>>> ht
> >>>> ml
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
> >>> disks....do you actually use those?
> >>
> >> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
> >> speachless
> >>
> >> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
> >
> > Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
> > Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I don't
> > particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing things.
> > Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If so, are
> > those commonly processed in a waterbath?
>
> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
>
> Do you have the two-piece
> > lid and ring closure that we have
>
> Yes I do
>
>
> or do you do something more along
> > the lines of a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal clips?
> > I'm curious. -B, wondering where in the heck those little circles are
>
> We have both
>
> This is where I get my supplies
>
> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/productlis...eas/preserving


I WANT SOME PRESERVING PLUNGERS!!! LOL!
Thanks, O. I enjoy seeing what people in other parts of the world use
and how they do things. Fun site for me.
-B
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kathi Jones wrote:
>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before
>>>>>>> using and then BWB process. That is generally what is called
>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and
>>>>>> I have never done so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...ge-marmalade,1
>>>>>> 22
>>>>>> 3,RC.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...eserve,1056,RC.
>>>>>> ht
>>>>>> ml
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
>>>>> disks....do you actually use those?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
>>>> speachless
>>>>
>>>> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
>>>
>>> Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
>>> Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I
>>> don't particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing
>>> things. Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If
>>> so, are those commonly processed in a waterbath?
>>
>> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
>>
>> Do you have the two-piece
>>> lid and ring closure that we have
>>
>> Yes I do
>>
>>
>> or do you do something more along
>>> the lines of a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal clips?
>>> I'm curious. -B, wondering where in the heck those little circles
>>> are
>>
>> We have both
>>
>> This is where I get my supplies
>>
>> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/productlis...eas/preserving
>
>
> I WANT SOME PRESERVING PLUNGERS!!! LOL!
> Thanks, O. I enjoy seeing what people in other parts of the world use
> and how they do things. Fun site for me.
> -B

LOL well now Barb, probably time you emailed me again with your address)

In article >,
"Ophelia" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> > In article >,
> > "Ophelia" > wrote:
> >
> >> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "Ophelia" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Kathi Jones wrote:
> >>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> George Shirley wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you sterilize
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
> >>>>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before
> >>>>>>> using and then BWB process. That is generally what is called
> >>>>>>> for.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade and
> >>>>>> I have never done so.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...ange-marmalade
> >>>>>> ,1
> >>>>>> 22
> >>>>>> 3,RC.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...reserve,1056,R
> >>>>>> C.
> >>>>>> ht
> >>>>>> ml
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
> >>>>> disks....do you actually use those?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
> >>>> speachless
> >>>>
> >>>> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
> >>>
> >>> Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
> >>> Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I
> >>> don't particularly think it's anything but a different way of doing
> >>> things. Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like tomatoes? If
> >>> so, are those commonly processed in a waterbath?
> >>
> >> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
> >>
> >> Do you have the two-piece
> >>> lid and ring closure that we have
> >>
> >> Yes I do
> >>
> >>
> >> or do you do something more along
> >>> the lines of a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal clips?
> >>> I'm curious. -B, wondering where in the heck those little circles
> >>> are
> >>
> >> We have both
> >>
> >> This is where I get my supplies
> >>
> >> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/productlis...eas/preserving
> >
> >
> > I WANT SOME PRESERVING PLUNGERS!!! LOL!
> > Thanks, O. I enjoy seeing what people in other parts of the world use
> > and how they do things. Fun site for me.
> > -B
>
> LOL well now Barb, probably time you emailed me again with your address)

But I want EVERYthing, O! LOL! Mail me at earthlink.net with a dot
between my first and last names. I'm not sure I've a current address
for you - though you'll know if you do not receive the email copy of
this.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com;pics of my no-knead bread posted
Laissez les bons temps rouler!

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kathi Jones wrote:
>>>>>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> George Shirley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I just want to be sure I got this right. Because you
>>>>>>>>>>> sterilize the
>>>>>>>>>> jars before using, there is no BWB processing, right?
>>>>>>>>> Boy, oh boy, I sure hope she is. I sterilize my jars before
>>>>>>>>> using and then BWB process. That is generally what is called
>>>>>>>>> for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here in UK it is not usual to BWB jars with jam or marmalade
>>>>>>>> and I have never done so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here are recipes from one of our well known food writers
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/d...e,1047,RC.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/t...ange-marmalade
>>>>>>>> ,1
>>>>>>>> 22
>>>>>>>> 3,RC.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.deliaonline.com/recipes/h...reserve,1056,R
>>>>>>>> C.
>>>>>>>> ht
>>>>>>>> ml
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (shudder) yep, you still have recipes that say to use waxed
>>>>>>> disks....do you actually use those?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, sometimes I sent some to Barb and I think she was
>>>>>> speachless
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are of course, only using them on high sugar foods.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not so much speechless as awestruck, I think.
>>>>> Different countries have different standards for "the norm." I
>>>>> don't particularly think it's anything but a different way of
>>>>> doing things. Do you can/bottle/jar other stuff, O? Like
>>>>> tomatoes? If so, are those commonly processed in a waterbath?
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do Barb. I also have a canner I got from Ross.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have the two-piece
>>>>> lid and ring closure that we have
>>>>
>>>> Yes I do
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> or do you do something more along
>>>>> the lines of a Weck jar with a rubber sealing ring and metal
>>>>> clips? I'm curious. -B, wondering where in the heck those little
>>>>> circles are
>>>>
>>>> We have both
>>>>
>>>> This is where I get my supplies
>>>>
>>>> http://www.lakeland.co.uk/productlis...eas/preserving
>>>
>>>
>>> I WANT SOME PRESERVING PLUNGERS!!! LOL!
>>> Thanks, O. I enjoy seeing what people in other parts of the world
>>> use and how they do things. Fun site for me.
>>> -B
>>
>> LOL well now Barb, probably time you emailed me again with your
>> address)
>
> But I want EVERYthing, O! LOL! Mail me at earthlink.net with a dot
> between my first and last names. I'm not sure I've a current address
> for you - though you'll know if you do not receive the email copy of
> this.

I got ya babe)

"Kathi Jones" > wrote in message
...
>
(clipped)
>
> ohmygosh! so, not to say 'me too me too' but I do exactly the same as
> George! The jam filled jars are gonna go in to the canner, so why not
> take the empty jars out of it? And y'know what I do with the boiling
> water that has to be poured out of the sterilized jars? I pour it on the
> lids! Yup! The boiling water from the sterilized jars goes on to the 2
> piece lids (they are in a pot of their own)- thereby heating them up and
> softening the compound.
> Kathi
>

I've been drying 'shrooms lately, and storing in mason jars sealed by vacuum
suck'em'upper dealy. Was difficult to warm lids slightly to get nice seal
without a drop of water in the atmosphere which the 'shrooms will eat up
like a treat, then spoil. I figgered out! I lay the clean dry lids on the
coffeemaker warmer for a few mins. Worked like charm!
Edrena

"Kathi Jones" > wrote in message
...
(clipped)>
> I'm not sure about the baking soda, but I think it has something to do
> with foaming? Just a guess.
>
> Kathi
>
One of these days, I'll make the lime marmalade I'm looking for. In the
meantime, the baking soda is to reduce the pH. Seville oranges are pretty
sour, no? One website I ran across mentioned that they thought jams,etc.,
set best at about 3.2pH. Limes are generally about 0, and lemons about 1-2.
That said, very ripe fruits will probably be higher in pH. And of course
with so many hybrids, there is no real average anymore.
My 2c worth.
Edrena