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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default Manteca vs. oil in flour tortillas

Trouble in paradise; apparently the flour tortilla recipe I've been
using(http://www.texascooking.com/features...rtortillas.htm),
which worked great with a rolling pin, is not working so great in my
new $2000 tortilla press. The recipe which worked out well last night
was the above, with about six tablespoons of soy oil instead of two
teaspoons. The tortillas pressed out just fine, but after grilling
they turned out sort of oily, but I figured just back off a little on
the oil and all will be well. Not quite; the tortillas have gone back
to sticking in the press.

Looking at about a dozen flour tortilla recipes online, I see that
almost all call for either lard (manteca) or vegetable shortening
(manteca vegetal), and in fairly generous quantities, much more than
in the above recipe. This wouldn't be a problem, except that neither
is a readily available product in Brazil.

Do these recipes call for lard or shortening because these two
options give texture without turning out oily, i.e. they
harden/congeal after grilling, instead of remaining liquid? Or should
I just strike a better balance between two teaspoons and six
tablespoons of oil?

If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?
I've seen pork lard mentioned...can I use bacon fat, or is that too
salty? I will be using plenty of beef and bacon, so maybe there is a
way I could cook off the fat and mix it with some oil. Any
suggestions?

Thanks,

IB
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Charles Gifford
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Incontinentius Buttocks" > wrote in
message om...
>
>
> If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?
> I've seen pork lard mentioned...can I use bacon fat, or is that too
> salty? I will be using plenty of beef and bacon, so maybe there is a
> way I could cook off the fat and mix it with some oil. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> IB


I use lard. It is not essential, but works best in my opinion. I'm sure you
have lard in Brazil, you just might no be familiar with it. In any case, it
is easy to make yourself. Note: Tallow (beef fat) can be made in the same
way. It keeps very well when refrigerated (months) and a very long time when
frozen.

Charlie


RENDERING PORK FAT


Kay Hartman


A nearby market sells packages of raw pork fat in its meat department. The
fat has very small amounts of meat attached. It's perfect for rendering.
There is just enough meat on the fat to nicely flavor the final product.

We put the fat into the fridge until it is well chilled. We then remove it
from the fridge a little at a time. Each piece removed from the refrigerator
is cut into a small dice. We add the diced fat to a cast iron Dutch oven.

When all the fat is diced, we put the Dutch oven on the stove top over a
very low heat. We stir frequently until the fat begins to render and we know
that it will no longer stick to the pan. After that, we still stir
occasionally, but it is not necessary to be diligent.

The longer the fat cooks, the more liquid fat is released. Eventually the
solid fat is boiling in a vat of liquid fat. We keep the heat very low.
After a pretty long while (a few hours) the fat is completely rendered and
the remaining bits of meat are crispy but not burned. The lard is now done.
Let the lard cool.

When it is cool enough to safely handle, strain the lard through a fine mesh
strainer. The resulting product is beautifully clear when warm and very
light amber (just off white) when chilled.


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Charles Gifford
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Incontinentius Buttocks" > wrote in
message om...
>
>
> If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?
> I've seen pork lard mentioned...can I use bacon fat, or is that too
> salty? I will be using plenty of beef and bacon, so maybe there is a
> way I could cook off the fat and mix it with some oil. Any
> suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> IB


I use lard. It is not essential, but works best in my opinion. I'm sure you
have lard in Brazil, you just might no be familiar with it. In any case, it
is easy to make yourself. Note: Tallow (beef fat) can be made in the same
way. It keeps very well when refrigerated (months) and a very long time when
frozen.

Charlie


RENDERING PORK FAT


Kay Hartman


A nearby market sells packages of raw pork fat in its meat department. The
fat has very small amounts of meat attached. It's perfect for rendering.
There is just enough meat on the fat to nicely flavor the final product.

We put the fat into the fridge until it is well chilled. We then remove it
from the fridge a little at a time. Each piece removed from the refrigerator
is cut into a small dice. We add the diced fat to a cast iron Dutch oven.

When all the fat is diced, we put the Dutch oven on the stove top over a
very low heat. We stir frequently until the fat begins to render and we know
that it will no longer stick to the pan. After that, we still stir
occasionally, but it is not necessary to be diligent.

The longer the fat cooks, the more liquid fat is released. Eventually the
solid fat is boiling in a vat of liquid fat. We keep the heat very low.
After a pretty long while (a few hours) the fat is completely rendered and
the remaining bits of meat are crispy but not burned. The lard is now done.
Let the lard cool.

When it is cool enough to safely handle, strain the lard through a fine mesh
strainer. The resulting product is beautifully clear when warm and very
light amber (just off white) when chilled.


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Incontinentius Buttocks > wrote:
> Trouble in paradise; apparently the flour tortilla recipe I've been
> using(http://www.texascooking.com/features...rtortillas.htm),
> which worked great with a rolling pin, is not working so great in my
> new $2000 tortilla press.


My usual flour tortilla recipe calls for white flour, water, and lard
in the proportions, respectively, 16:4:1, e.g. four cups flour, one cup
water, 1/4 cup lard. Mix it all together thoroughly, let it rest for a
half hour to an hour, either wrapped in plastic wrap or in an airtight
container, then roll or press and cook as usual.

> Do these recipes call for lard or shortening because these two
> options give texture without turning out oily, i.e. they
> harden/congeal after grilling, instead of remaining liquid? Or should
> I just strike a better balance between two teaspoons and six
> tablespoons of oil?


That's a fine question. It would probably be worthwhile to experiment a
bit with the oil, but even more worthwhile to try to find a vendor who
can provide the lard.

Simply put, heart disease be damned, lard is the best shortening agent
there is, period. If you've not used it much, you might be surprised at
the difference it can make.

> If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?


Is making your own an option? If you've a meat packer nearby who
processes pigs, you might be able to purchase the fat -- since lard's
apparently not heavily used in your locale. I'd guess that rendering
your own lard would become a detested chore, but it might be a good
short-term option. More information on the process:

http://www.easyfunschool.com/article1141.html

It's not at all hard, but carelessness will be punished! If I was to
ask employees to do it, I'd require safety goggles, aprons, and gloves.
No sense setting someone up for a nasty burn in the name of drawing a
paycheck.

> I've seen pork lard mentioned...can I use bacon fat, or is that too
> salty?


I'd imagine that the salt and the smoke (or smoke flavoring chemical)
would yield a tortilla with a disagreeable flavor. I've known a few
folks who said that bacon grease is preferable to vegetable oil, but
I've always been hesitant to try it. If you do, please let us know how
it turns out.

Heck, I'm half tempted to try it myself, now that it's come up. If I
do, I'll post the results here.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Incontinentius Buttocks > wrote:
> Trouble in paradise; apparently the flour tortilla recipe I've been
> using(http://www.texascooking.com/features...rtortillas.htm),
> which worked great with a rolling pin, is not working so great in my
> new $2000 tortilla press.


My usual flour tortilla recipe calls for white flour, water, and lard
in the proportions, respectively, 16:4:1, e.g. four cups flour, one cup
water, 1/4 cup lard. Mix it all together thoroughly, let it rest for a
half hour to an hour, either wrapped in plastic wrap or in an airtight
container, then roll or press and cook as usual.

> Do these recipes call for lard or shortening because these two
> options give texture without turning out oily, i.e. they
> harden/congeal after grilling, instead of remaining liquid? Or should
> I just strike a better balance between two teaspoons and six
> tablespoons of oil?


That's a fine question. It would probably be worthwhile to experiment a
bit with the oil, but even more worthwhile to try to find a vendor who
can provide the lard.

Simply put, heart disease be damned, lard is the best shortening agent
there is, period. If you've not used it much, you might be surprised at
the difference it can make.

> If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?


Is making your own an option? If you've a meat packer nearby who
processes pigs, you might be able to purchase the fat -- since lard's
apparently not heavily used in your locale. I'd guess that rendering
your own lard would become a detested chore, but it might be a good
short-term option. More information on the process:

http://www.easyfunschool.com/article1141.html

It's not at all hard, but carelessness will be punished! If I was to
ask employees to do it, I'd require safety goggles, aprons, and gloves.
No sense setting someone up for a nasty burn in the name of drawing a
paycheck.

> I've seen pork lard mentioned...can I use bacon fat, or is that too
> salty?


I'd imagine that the salt and the smoke (or smoke flavoring chemical)
would yield a tortilla with a disagreeable flavor. I've known a few
folks who said that bacon grease is preferable to vegetable oil, but
I've always been hesitant to try it. If you do, please let us know how
it turns out.

Heck, I'm half tempted to try it myself, now that it's come up. If I
do, I'll post the results here.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Incontinentius Buttocks > wrote:

> No salt, yeast, baking soda?


I learned to make flour tortillas from an older Mexican woman, who
learned from her mother, and I assume she learned from hers, too. I
never even thought to try any of those things, specifically, but I do
sometimes add about a teaspoon of baking powder per cup of water to get
a lighter, fluffier tortilla.

She also tried to teach me to pat out corn tortillas, but I never
mastered it. Her daughters laughed at my feeble attempts. Perhaps the
only way to master it is to start at a very young age, on your mother's
knee.

Anyway, the 16:4:1 proportions I gave work pretty well, but since
moving ten years ago into the mountains (6250' in elevation) I find
that I have to use a bit more water, as things dehydrate quickly here.
I don't even know how much more I'm using -- I just go for the right
feel.

> If lard is best and shortening is almost as good, why are butter and
> margarine not acceptable substitutes?


I don't have a solid answer for that, but it's a fine question.

I've tried butter, which tasted good, but the feel of the end product
was too oily for my liking. I've never tried margarine, but expect it
would be even oilier. Perhaps using less butter would have solved the
problem? I dunno -- I just went back to my old recipe. Lard's cheaper!

Right now, here in a dinky little town in the mountains of Northwest
Colorado, butter costs just shy of four dollars per pound. I don't
experiment much at that price!

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Incontinentius Buttocks > wrote:

> No salt, yeast, baking soda?


I learned to make flour tortillas from an older Mexican woman, who
learned from her mother, and I assume she learned from hers, too. I
never even thought to try any of those things, specifically, but I do
sometimes add about a teaspoon of baking powder per cup of water to get
a lighter, fluffier tortilla.

She also tried to teach me to pat out corn tortillas, but I never
mastered it. Her daughters laughed at my feeble attempts. Perhaps the
only way to master it is to start at a very young age, on your mother's
knee.

Anyway, the 16:4:1 proportions I gave work pretty well, but since
moving ten years ago into the mountains (6250' in elevation) I find
that I have to use a bit more water, as things dehydrate quickly here.
I don't even know how much more I'm using -- I just go for the right
feel.

> If lard is best and shortening is almost as good, why are butter and
> margarine not acceptable substitutes?


I don't have a solid answer for that, but it's a fine question.

I've tried butter, which tasted good, but the feel of the end product
was too oily for my liking. I've never tried margarine, but expect it
would be even oilier. Perhaps using less butter would have solved the
problem? I dunno -- I just went back to my old recipe. Lard's cheaper!

Right now, here in a dinky little town in the mountains of Northwest
Colorado, butter costs just shy of four dollars per pound. I don't
experiment much at that price!

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
BillB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 27 Aug 2004 10:19:59 -0700, Incontinentius Buttocks wrote:

> If lard is best and shortening is almost as good, why are butter and
> margarine not acceptable substitutes?


I think it has to do with melting points. On a slightly warm day
when butter and margarine will turn into an oily puddle, shortening
won't. I don't have much experience using lard (last time was
about 30 years ago) but I think shortening would have a higher
melting point than lard, so if lard is best, it's probably due to
its taste. Shortening is intentionally bland.

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
BillB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:10:43 -0700, Crone wrote:

> They burn.


That's true, but isn't it mainly a consideration when deep frying
and not when making tortillas?


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Auntie Em
 
Posts: n/a
Default


>Anyway, the 16:4:1 proportions I gave work pretty well, but since
>moving ten years ago into the mountains (6250' in elevation) I find
>that I have to use a bit more water, as things dehydrate quickly here.
>I don't even know how much more I'm using -- I just go for the right
>feel.


>Right now, here in a dinky little town in the mountains of Northwest
>Colorado, butter costs just shy of four dollars per pound. I don't
>experiment much at that price!


What dinky little town is that? I'm in Durango and we have the same
deal here. Gotta use more water and lower the temp when cooking.
PITA for frozen pizza and other pre-packaged goods.

Em
who uses lard and loves it.
The first half of our lives is ruined by our parents,
and the second half by our children.
--- Clarence Darrow
(make that YOUR children).
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(Art Sackett) wrote in message >...
> Simply put, heart disease be damned, lard is the best shortening agent
> there is, period. If you've not used it much, you might be surprised at
> the difference it can make.
>

[IB]
> > If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?

>

[AS]
> Is making your own an option? If you've a meat packer nearby who
> processes pigs, you might be able to purchase the fat -- since lard's
> apparently not heavily used in your locale. I'd guess that rendering
> your own lard would become a detested chore, but it might be a good
> short-term option. More information on the process:
>
>
http://www.easyfunschool.com/article1141.html
>
> It's not at all hard, but carelessness will be punished! If I was to
> ask employees to do it, I'd require safety goggles, aprons, and gloves.
> No sense setting someone up for a nasty burn in the name of drawing a
> paycheck.


Fortunately, it turns out none of the above is necessary. It is
readily available in any grocery store here-- silly me, I'd just never
looked for it before. Lard is called banha (BAN-ya) in Portuguese, and
shortening is called gordura vegetal (lit. vegetable fat). I tried
lard last night, about four tablespoons for two cups of flour, which
seems like a little too much lard. The dough isn't sticking to the
press as badly though, so things are looking better. The taste of the
tortillas with lard is pretty good, as confirmed by my dog-- she went
after tortilla pieces like they were meat scraps.

IB
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
maiggy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Traditional tortilla recipe calls for water, flour, lard or Crisco, a little
salt and baking powder. I use the recipe that my mother, tias and abuelitas
have used for the last 3 generations. Y son sabrosas cada vez.

Veronica Salinas Guajardo
Texas

"Incontinentius Buttocks" > wrote in
message m...
> (Art Sackett) wrote in message

>...
> > My usual flour tortilla recipe calls for white flour, water, and lard
> > in the proportions, respectively, 16:4:1, e.g. four cups flour, one cup
> > water, 1/4 cup lard.

>
> No salt, yeast, baking soda?
>
> If lard is best and shortening is almost as good, why are butter and
> margarine not acceptable substitutes?
>
> IB
>
> "There are no stupid questions, only inquisitive idiots."



  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
maiggy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Traditional tortilla recipe calls for water, flour, lard or Crisco, a little
salt and baking powder. I use the recipe that my mother, tias and abuelitas
have used for the last 3 generations. Y son sabrosas cada vez.

Veronica Salinas Guajardo
Texas

"Incontinentius Buttocks" > wrote in
message m...
> (Art Sackett) wrote in message

>...
> > My usual flour tortilla recipe calls for white flour, water, and lard
> > in the proportions, respectively, 16:4:1, e.g. four cups flour, one cup
> > water, 1/4 cup lard.

>
> No salt, yeast, baking soda?
>
> If lard is best and shortening is almost as good, why are butter and
> margarine not acceptable substitutes?
>
> IB
>
> "There are no stupid questions, only inquisitive idiots."



  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Auntie Em > wrote:

> What dinky little town is that?


Meeker. Where all the elk hunters are today. :-)

> I'm in Durango and we have the same deal here.


:-) Durango sure is growing lately, eh? I hadn't been there in ages
when I visited about five years ago. Wow, what a surprise!

> Gotta use more water and lower the temp when cooking.


We're planning to move to New Mexico in the Spring, where we can enjoy
the benefits of a longer growing season -- my cooking will probably
suffer dramatically until I figure out how to work the lower elevation,
but it'll be nice to not have the fall rush when we have to bring in
and can/dry/freeze everything on the night of the first frost.

> PITA for frozen pizza and other pre-packaged goods.


I wasn't aware of that -- I've got the luxury of being self-employed
and working at home, so I can take the time to make everything from
scratch.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Auntie Em > wrote:

> What dinky little town is that?


Meeker. Where all the elk hunters are today. :-)

> I'm in Durango and we have the same deal here.


:-) Durango sure is growing lately, eh? I hadn't been there in ages
when I visited about five years ago. Wow, what a surprise!

> Gotta use more water and lower the temp when cooking.


We're planning to move to New Mexico in the Spring, where we can enjoy
the benefits of a longer growing season -- my cooking will probably
suffer dramatically until I figure out how to work the lower elevation,
but it'll be nice to not have the fall rush when we have to bring in
and can/dry/freeze everything on the night of the first frost.

> PITA for frozen pizza and other pre-packaged goods.


I wasn't aware of that -- I've got the luxury of being self-employed
and working at home, so I can take the time to make everything from
scratch.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Irma
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi IB,

I have a machine very similar to yous. Well, mine is not as professional and
expensive as yours but I get nice tortillas from it. Mine has just one
temperature and the surface is covered with teflon.

The recipe I have is to prepare tortillas by hand but it works fine. I
suggest you to prepare half of a kilo of flour just to try.

1 kilo flour.
2 tea spoons baking powder.
1/2 tea spoon salt
100 grms. lard room temperature.
600 ml. water, it should be warm water. !!Not boiling water ok?, just
warm... :-)

You can prepare the dough with your mixer or beater. Mix the flour, baking
powder and salt, then the lard in little pieces. Pour the water slowly but
constantly till you finish the water. Give the machine time to blend all the
ingredients and you will have a nice and silky dough.

Careful! the dough gets dry very easy so if you will take time to prepare
them, it is better to cover the bowl with a wet frabic but it can't touch
the dough.

Note: the amount of lard and water can vary, but very little so you may try
with the amounts I gave you and then modify to your needs and taste.

Get the ball you need and start preparing your tortillas. You can't store
them together in a pile when they are warm, you need to let them cool down
and then pile them. When you need to prepare tacos just warm them a little
in a pan and prepare the taco.

I used to prepare one kilo every time and I get them out of the machine just
half cooked. I let them cool down, when they are cold I put them in a
plastic bag and store them in the freezer. When I need to prepare tacos they
are ready just to warm them in a pan.

Hope it helps you.

Irma.
Mexican.


"Incontinentius Buttocks" > schrieb im
Newsbeitrag om...
> (Art Sackett) wrote in message

>...
> > Simply put, heart disease be damned, lard is the best shortening agent
> > there is, period. If you've not used it much, you might be surprised at
> > the difference it can make.
> >

> [IB]
> > > If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?

> >

> [AS]
> > Is making your own an option? If you've a meat packer nearby who
> > processes pigs, you might be able to purchase the fat -- since lard's
> > apparently not heavily used in your locale. I'd guess that rendering
> > your own lard would become a detested chore, but it might be a good
> > short-term option. More information on the process:
> >
> >
http://www.easyfunschool.com/article1141.html
> >
> > It's not at all hard, but carelessness will be punished! If I was to
> > ask employees to do it, I'd require safety goggles, aprons, and gloves.
> > No sense setting someone up for a nasty burn in the name of drawing a
> > paycheck.

>
> Fortunately, it turns out none of the above is necessary. It is
> readily available in any grocery store here-- silly me, I'd just never
> looked for it before. Lard is called banha (BAN-ya) in Portuguese, and
> shortening is called gordura vegetal (lit. vegetable fat). I tried
> lard last night, about four tablespoons for two cups of flour, which
> seems like a little too much lard. The dough isn't sticking to the
> press as badly though, so things are looking better. The taste of the
> tortillas with lard is pretty good, as confirmed by my dog-- she went
> after tortilla pieces like they were meat scraps.
>
> IB



  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Irma
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi IB,

I have a machine very similar to yous. Well, mine is not as professional and
expensive as yours but I get nice tortillas from it. Mine has just one
temperature and the surface is covered with teflon.

The recipe I have is to prepare tortillas by hand but it works fine. I
suggest you to prepare half of a kilo of flour just to try.

1 kilo flour.
2 tea spoons baking powder.
1/2 tea spoon salt
100 grms. lard room temperature.
600 ml. water, it should be warm water. !!Not boiling water ok?, just
warm... :-)

You can prepare the dough with your mixer or beater. Mix the flour, baking
powder and salt, then the lard in little pieces. Pour the water slowly but
constantly till you finish the water. Give the machine time to blend all the
ingredients and you will have a nice and silky dough.

Careful! the dough gets dry very easy so if you will take time to prepare
them, it is better to cover the bowl with a wet frabic but it can't touch
the dough.

Note: the amount of lard and water can vary, but very little so you may try
with the amounts I gave you and then modify to your needs and taste.

Get the ball you need and start preparing your tortillas. You can't store
them together in a pile when they are warm, you need to let them cool down
and then pile them. When you need to prepare tacos just warm them a little
in a pan and prepare the taco.

I used to prepare one kilo every time and I get them out of the machine just
half cooked. I let them cool down, when they are cold I put them in a
plastic bag and store them in the freezer. When I need to prepare tacos they
are ready just to warm them in a pan.

Hope it helps you.

Irma.
Mexican.


"Incontinentius Buttocks" > schrieb im
Newsbeitrag om...
> (Art Sackett) wrote in message

>...
> > Simply put, heart disease be damned, lard is the best shortening agent
> > there is, period. If you've not used it much, you might be surprised at
> > the difference it can make.
> >

> [IB]
> > > If lard/shortening is essential, what can I do to improvise lard?

> >

> [AS]
> > Is making your own an option? If you've a meat packer nearby who
> > processes pigs, you might be able to purchase the fat -- since lard's
> > apparently not heavily used in your locale. I'd guess that rendering
> > your own lard would become a detested chore, but it might be a good
> > short-term option. More information on the process:
> >
> >
http://www.easyfunschool.com/article1141.html
> >
> > It's not at all hard, but carelessness will be punished! If I was to
> > ask employees to do it, I'd require safety goggles, aprons, and gloves.
> > No sense setting someone up for a nasty burn in the name of drawing a
> > paycheck.

>
> Fortunately, it turns out none of the above is necessary. It is
> readily available in any grocery store here-- silly me, I'd just never
> looked for it before. Lard is called banha (BAN-ya) in Portuguese, and
> shortening is called gordura vegetal (lit. vegetable fat). I tried
> lard last night, about four tablespoons for two cups of flour, which
> seems like a little too much lard. The dough isn't sticking to the
> press as badly though, so things are looking better. The taste of the
> tortillas with lard is pretty good, as confirmed by my dog-- she went
> after tortilla pieces like they were meat scraps.
>
> IB



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Art Sackett
 
Posts: n/a
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Hoping the group will indulge me this off-topic ramble:

Auntie Em > wrote:

> Durango is becoming more like Telluride every day.


Ed(ward) Abbey wrote, in his book _The Journey Home_:

"What some of us liked so much about Telluride was not the skiing but
that quality of the town which Zoline and his developmental millions
must necessarily take away: its rundown, raunchy, redneck, backwoods
backwardness."

And: "Telluride. To hell you ride."

> You wouldn't
> believe the construction, etc. Kind of horrible, really.


Ya know, I *would* believe it. I've seen it all before. You can't
unbuild a town...I grew up in farm country, but I won't live long
enough to see agriculture return to that land that now sits under the
North American headquarters buildings of several Japanese corporations.
I knew before I finished high school that it was time for me to strike
out and find somewhere with less "progress".

Some day we'll collectively come to realize that burying arable land
under asphalt and concrete is not progress.

> Funny, we had been looking at New Mexico for a possible place to move
> to. But didn't really find anything that we liked. Where are you
> going in New Mexico?


We're looking at the southwestern corner. There are some spots down
that way that are desert on top, but with suitably reliable aquifers
just 20-40 feet down. It'll take some doing... but we did lots and lots
of homework, looking at a laundry list of factors that drove our
decision, and New Mexico topped the list handily. Once we settled on
the state, we started looking at growing season, availability of water,
raw land prices, etc.

We're comfortable with truly rural living, or we'd never even consider
such a move. We'll be moving down there in the Spring, and spend a lot
of time getting to know the area, in order to avoid buying someone
else's headaches. Rural land is a lot like used cars in that regard.

End of off-topic ramble, and my thanks for the patience of the group.

--
Art Sackett,
Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
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"Irma" > wrote in message >...
> Hi IB,
>
> I have a machine very similar to yous. Well, mine is not as professional and
> expensive as yours but I get nice tortillas from it. Mine has just one
> temperature and the surface is covered with teflon.


Teflon, what a concept. Last night I was wondering to myself why
Villamex didn't think of using Teflon, which got me to thinking,
"Well, why don't I figure out a way to get this treated with Teflon
myself?" After talking with the sales rep yesterday, I had tried a
recipe like yours below, but with 175 grams of lard. The tortillas
turned out too heavy and greasy for my taste, and stuck to the press
anyway. I really prefer the hand-rolled recipe I was using before with
milk and a small amount of oil, and many people who have tried that
(most of whom had never tasted a tortilla before) have commented on
how light and tasty the tortillas are.
After checking around locally today without results, I called DuPont
of Brazil, who put me in touch with their closest factory-authorized
installer, who is six hours' drive from here. Luckily, since I am in a
very popular beach city, it happens that the guy is coming out for
some R&R this weekend and can take the press with him and even return
it a few days later, so my cost will be about U$50 and no delivery
charge.
Oh, and I thought of a name for my burritos and wraps. Since they
are an unknown product, it makes sense to coin a name that fits
locally. With Brazilian pronunciation, "burrito" would be pronounced
"boo-HEE-toh", and would have to be explained every time:
"It's Mexican, blah blah blah..."
"Mexican?! Must be too spicy!"
"No, don't worry, you only add your own fire if you want, blah blah
blah..."
And Brazilians would have trouble pronouncing the word "wrap", in
addition to even understanding what it means. Clipping off the "w"
would render the pronunciation as "happy". So the word I thought up is
"rechê (hey-SHEY)", short for "pancilho recheado", which would be
"pancillo relleno" in Spanish. So a burrito will be a rechê de arroz e
feijão (rice and beans, the national staple). I may not even use the
word Mexican, so as not to raise the spectre of "too spicy" .

IB
>
> The recipe I have is to prepare tortillas by hand but it works fine. I
> suggest you to prepare half of a kilo of flour just to try.
>
> 1 kilo flour.
> 2 tea spoons baking powder.
> 1/2 tea spoon salt
> 100 grms. lard room temperature.
> 600 ml. water, it should be warm water. !!Not boiling water ok?, just
> warm... :-)
> Irma.
> Mexican.

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Irma" > wrote in message >...
> Hi IB,
>
> I have a machine very similar to yous. Well, mine is not as professional and
> expensive as yours but I get nice tortillas from it. Mine has just one
> temperature and the surface is covered with teflon.


Teflon, what a concept. Last night I was wondering to myself why
Villamex didn't think of using Teflon, which got me to thinking,
"Well, why don't I figure out a way to get this treated with Teflon
myself?" After talking with the sales rep yesterday, I had tried a
recipe like yours below, but with 175 grams of lard. The tortillas
turned out too heavy and greasy for my taste, and stuck to the press
anyway. I really prefer the hand-rolled recipe I was using before with
milk and a small amount of oil, and many people who have tried that
(most of whom had never tasted a tortilla before) have commented on
how light and tasty the tortillas are.
After checking around locally today without results, I called DuPont
of Brazil, who put me in touch with their closest factory-authorized
installer, who is six hours' drive from here. Luckily, since I am in a
very popular beach city, it happens that the guy is coming out for
some R&R this weekend and can take the press with him and even return
it a few days later, so my cost will be about U$50 and no delivery
charge.
Oh, and I thought of a name for my burritos and wraps. Since they
are an unknown product, it makes sense to coin a name that fits
locally. With Brazilian pronunciation, "burrito" would be pronounced
"boo-HEE-toh", and would have to be explained every time:
"It's Mexican, blah blah blah..."
"Mexican?! Must be too spicy!"
"No, don't worry, you only add your own fire if you want, blah blah
blah..."
And Brazilians would have trouble pronouncing the word "wrap", in
addition to even understanding what it means. Clipping off the "w"
would render the pronunciation as "happy". So the word I thought up is
"rechê (hey-SHEY)", short for "pancilho recheado", which would be
"pancillo relleno" in Spanish. So a burrito will be a rechê de arroz e
feijão (rice and beans, the national staple). I may not even use the
word Mexican, so as not to raise the spectre of "too spicy" .

IB
>
> The recipe I have is to prepare tortillas by hand but it works fine. I
> suggest you to prepare half of a kilo of flour just to try.
>
> 1 kilo flour.
> 2 tea spoons baking powder.
> 1/2 tea spoon salt
> 100 grms. lard room temperature.
> 600 ml. water, it should be warm water. !!Not boiling water ok?, just
> warm... :-)
> Irma.
> Mexican.

  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, =20
says...
> Teflon, what a concept. Last night I was wondering to myself why
> Villamex didn't think of using Teflon, which got me to thinking,
> "Well, why don't I figure out a way to get this treated with Teflon
> myself?" After talking with the sales rep yesterday, I had tried a
> recipe like yours below, but with 175 grams of lard. The tortillas
> turned out too heavy and greasy for my taste, and stuck to the press
> anyway. I really prefer the hand-rolled recipe I was using before with
> milk and a small amount of oil, and many people who have tried that
> (most of whom had never tasted a tortilla before) have commented on
> how light and tasty the tortillas are.
> After checking around locally today without results, I called DuPont
> of Brazil, who put me in touch with their closest factory-authorized
> installer, who is six hours' drive from here. Luckily, since I am in a
> very popular beach city, it happens that the guy is coming out for
> some R&R this weekend and can take the press with him and even return
> it a few days later, so my cost will be about U$50 and no delivery
> charge.
> Oh, and I thought of a name for my burritos and wraps. Since they
> are an unknown product, it makes sense to coin a name that fits
> locally. With Brazilian pronunciation, "burrito" would be pronounced
> "boo-HEE-toh", and would have to be explained every time:
> "It's Mexican, blah blah blah..."=20
> "Mexican?! Must be too spicy!"=20
> "No, don't worry, you only add your own fire if you want, blah blah
> blah..."
> And Brazilians would have trouble pronouncing the word "wrap", in
> addition to even understanding what it means. Clipping off the "w"
> would render the pronunciation as "happy". So the word I thought up is
> "rech=EA (hey-SHEY)", short for "pancilho recheado", which would be
> "pancillo relleno" in Spanish. So a burrito will be a rech=EA de arroz e
> feij=E3o (rice and beans, the national staple). I may not even use the
> word Mexican, so as not to raise the spectre of "too spicy" .
>=20
> IB
>=20

Good luck with the Teflon "install". I had no idea that things could be=20
"Tefloned" after the fact. I hope it works out and solves the sticking=20
problem. =20

With the name-game logic you describe, if it all works out, it sounds as=20
though you could open your own local marketing consultancy. =20

Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant=20
phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other=20
stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by=20
McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an=20
emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment=20
conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if=20
what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may=20
not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the=20
Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech=EA" if you sell more=
=20
than a few a day...

Bob
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, =20
says...
> Teflon, what a concept. Last night I was wondering to myself why
> Villamex didn't think of using Teflon, which got me to thinking,
> "Well, why don't I figure out a way to get this treated with Teflon
> myself?" After talking with the sales rep yesterday, I had tried a
> recipe like yours below, but with 175 grams of lard. The tortillas
> turned out too heavy and greasy for my taste, and stuck to the press
> anyway. I really prefer the hand-rolled recipe I was using before with
> milk and a small amount of oil, and many people who have tried that
> (most of whom had never tasted a tortilla before) have commented on
> how light and tasty the tortillas are.
> After checking around locally today without results, I called DuPont
> of Brazil, who put me in touch with their closest factory-authorized
> installer, who is six hours' drive from here. Luckily, since I am in a
> very popular beach city, it happens that the guy is coming out for
> some R&R this weekend and can take the press with him and even return
> it a few days later, so my cost will be about U$50 and no delivery
> charge.
> Oh, and I thought of a name for my burritos and wraps. Since they
> are an unknown product, it makes sense to coin a name that fits
> locally. With Brazilian pronunciation, "burrito" would be pronounced
> "boo-HEE-toh", and would have to be explained every time:
> "It's Mexican, blah blah blah..."=20
> "Mexican?! Must be too spicy!"=20
> "No, don't worry, you only add your own fire if you want, blah blah
> blah..."
> And Brazilians would have trouble pronouncing the word "wrap", in
> addition to even understanding what it means. Clipping off the "w"
> would render the pronunciation as "happy". So the word I thought up is
> "rech=EA (hey-SHEY)", short for "pancilho recheado", which would be
> "pancillo relleno" in Spanish. So a burrito will be a rech=EA de arroz e
> feij=E3o (rice and beans, the national staple). I may not even use the
> word Mexican, so as not to raise the spectre of "too spicy" .
>=20
> IB
>=20

Good luck with the Teflon "install". I had no idea that things could be=20
"Tefloned" after the fact. I hope it works out and solves the sticking=20
problem. =20

With the name-game logic you describe, if it all works out, it sounds as=20
though you could open your own local marketing consultancy. =20

Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant=20
phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other=20
stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by=20
McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an=20
emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment=20
conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if=20
what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may=20
not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the=20
Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech=EA" if you sell more=
=20
than a few a day...

Bob


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant
> phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other
> stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by
> McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an
> emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment
> conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if
> what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may
> not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the
> Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech " if you sell more
>
> than a few a day...
>
> Bob


Thanks. Actually I found the Chipotle website while googling
chipotle peppers. I borrowed a couple of ideas from them; for instance
I didn't know you could make fajitas in advance and keep them in a
warmer, so I added that to the lineup but with a localized name-- more
than one of my guinea pigs commented that it's like chicken xadrez,
xadrez meaning chess or checkered:

http://culinaria.terra.com.br/receit...-EI171,00.html

Also, I plan to pay my employees a bonus based on store sales, so
they should do considerably better than other fast-food workers. Given
the location, demand, and efficient setup, I expect we'll all do well.

Thanks, too, for the heads-up about McDonalds. There is a McD's two
blocks away. Anything American has prestige, so that must be how they
get by-- their prices are absurd by local standards. I have nothing
against McD's (really!), but rarely go there. I went in last month
just to get a feel for competition, and paid R$8.75 for a basic combo,
which in the local economy is like paying around U$20 given that
minimum wage here is about R$1.50 (U$.50) per hour. Something like
that-- it costs six hours' pay at minimum wage, vs. whatever a Big Mac
combo costs in the U.S. Anyway, the burger wasn't even that fresh;
they were obviously breaking company guidelines to cut corners and
save a little money. McD's biggest selling point is consistency of
experience worldwide, but this local unit isn't quite playing the
game. But getting to my point, my prices will be about 40% less than
McD's for better food. If they brought Chipotle here, would their
prices be competitive?

IB
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant
> phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other
> stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by
> McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an
> emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment
> conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if
> what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may
> not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the
> Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech " if you sell more
>
> than a few a day...
>
> Bob


Thanks. Actually I found the Chipotle website while googling
chipotle peppers. I borrowed a couple of ideas from them; for instance
I didn't know you could make fajitas in advance and keep them in a
warmer, so I added that to the lineup but with a localized name-- more
than one of my guinea pigs commented that it's like chicken xadrez,
xadrez meaning chess or checkered:

http://culinaria.terra.com.br/receit...-EI171,00.html

Also, I plan to pay my employees a bonus based on store sales, so
they should do considerably better than other fast-food workers. Given
the location, demand, and efficient setup, I expect we'll all do well.

Thanks, too, for the heads-up about McDonalds. There is a McD's two
blocks away. Anything American has prestige, so that must be how they
get by-- their prices are absurd by local standards. I have nothing
against McD's (really!), but rarely go there. I went in last month
just to get a feel for competition, and paid R$8.75 for a basic combo,
which in the local economy is like paying around U$20 given that
minimum wage here is about R$1.50 (U$.50) per hour. Something like
that-- it costs six hours' pay at minimum wage, vs. whatever a Big Mac
combo costs in the U.S. Anyway, the burger wasn't even that fresh;
they were obviously breaking company guidelines to cut corners and
save a little money. McD's biggest selling point is consistency of
experience worldwide, but this local unit isn't quite playing the
game. But getting to my point, my prices will be about 40% less than
McD's for better food. If they brought Chipotle here, would their
prices be competitive?

IB
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
says...
> > Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant
> > phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other
> > stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by
> > McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an
> > emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment
> > conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if
> > what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may
> > not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the
> > Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech " if you sell more
> >
> > than a few a day...
> >
> > Bob

>
> Thanks. Actually I found the Chipotle website while googling
> chipotle peppers. I borrowed a couple of ideas from them; for instance
> I didn't know you could make fajitas in advance and keep them in a
> warmer, so I added that to the lineup but with a localized name-- more
> than one of my guinea pigs commented that it's like chicken xadrez,
> xadrez meaning chess or checkered:
>
>
http://culinaria.terra.com.br/receit...-EI171,00.html
>
> Also, I plan to pay my employees a bonus based on store sales, so
> they should do considerably better than other fast-food workers. Given
> the location, demand, and efficient setup, I expect we'll all do well.
>
> Thanks, too, for the heads-up about McDonalds. There is a McD's two
> blocks away. Anything American has prestige, so that must be how they
> get by-- their prices are absurd by local standards. I have nothing
> against McD's (really!), but rarely go there. I went in last month
> just to get a feel for competition, and paid R$8.75 for a basic combo,
> which in the local economy is like paying around U$20 given that
> minimum wage here is about R$1.50 (U$.50) per hour. Something like
> that-- it costs six hours' pay at minimum wage, vs. whatever a Big Mac
> combo costs in the U.S. Anyway, the burger wasn't even that fresh;
> they were obviously breaking company guidelines to cut corners and
> save a little money. McD's biggest selling point is consistency of
> experience worldwide, but this local unit isn't quite playing the
> game. But getting to my point, my prices will be about 40% less than
> McD's for better food. If they brought Chipotle here, would their
> prices be competitive?
>
> IB
>

Thanks for the url. I've bookmarked it for future reference. My wife
has Portuguese roots, so I'm sure she'll find the site interesting.

I believe the Chipotle chain started out as a high-minded venture to
offer good, high-guality Mexican-style fast food at decent prices, and
to offer decent employment, management and franchising opportunities for
minority (mainly Latino) workers. They apparently achieved all of these
goals, and grew quite a bit on their own before the McD acquisition,
which seemed to be kept fairly quiet, as such things go.

Chipotle has continued to grow, and as far as I know, McD has not
significantly changed the basic plan. No doubt they're able to
piggyback on McD's distribution system and buying power and improve the
bottom line that way, in addition to simply being popular.

The employees all seem to be hard working and glad to be doing what
they're doing, so I assume they're treated well. I've been to three
different Chipotle stores and within the limitations of the menu they
offer, the food in each has been good and the service pleasant and
efficient.

Given what you've said about McD's prices in your area, I'd guess that
it's unlikely a Chipotle outlet would be any more reasonably priced, so
you probably don't have much to McWorry about...

Bob
  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >,
says...
> > Along those lines, you might want to look into the Chipotle restaurant
> > phenomenon here in the U.S. They make fast food burritos (and other
> > stuff, but mostly burritos) to order. Although they're now owned by
> > McDonalds, they got their start on a small scale, growing through an
> > emphasis on quality ingredients, authenticity, decent employment
> > conditions, etc. I assume there are McD's where you are. If so, and if
> > what you're attempting is successful, Chipotle or some other clone may
> > not be far behind. Maybe you could look into getting whatever the
> > Brazilian equivalent of a trademark is for your "rech " if you sell more
> >
> > than a few a day...
> >
> > Bob

>
> Thanks. Actually I found the Chipotle website while googling
> chipotle peppers. I borrowed a couple of ideas from them; for instance
> I didn't know you could make fajitas in advance and keep them in a
> warmer, so I added that to the lineup but with a localized name-- more
> than one of my guinea pigs commented that it's like chicken xadrez,
> xadrez meaning chess or checkered:
>
>
http://culinaria.terra.com.br/receit...-EI171,00.html
>
> Also, I plan to pay my employees a bonus based on store sales, so
> they should do considerably better than other fast-food workers. Given
> the location, demand, and efficient setup, I expect we'll all do well.
>
> Thanks, too, for the heads-up about McDonalds. There is a McD's two
> blocks away. Anything American has prestige, so that must be how they
> get by-- their prices are absurd by local standards. I have nothing
> against McD's (really!), but rarely go there. I went in last month
> just to get a feel for competition, and paid R$8.75 for a basic combo,
> which in the local economy is like paying around U$20 given that
> minimum wage here is about R$1.50 (U$.50) per hour. Something like
> that-- it costs six hours' pay at minimum wage, vs. whatever a Big Mac
> combo costs in the U.S. Anyway, the burger wasn't even that fresh;
> they were obviously breaking company guidelines to cut corners and
> save a little money. McD's biggest selling point is consistency of
> experience worldwide, but this local unit isn't quite playing the
> game. But getting to my point, my prices will be about 40% less than
> McD's for better food. If they brought Chipotle here, would their
> prices be competitive?
>
> IB
>

Thanks for the url. I've bookmarked it for future reference. My wife
has Portuguese roots, so I'm sure she'll find the site interesting.

I believe the Chipotle chain started out as a high-minded venture to
offer good, high-guality Mexican-style fast food at decent prices, and
to offer decent employment, management and franchising opportunities for
minority (mainly Latino) workers. They apparently achieved all of these
goals, and grew quite a bit on their own before the McD acquisition,
which seemed to be kept fairly quiet, as such things go.

Chipotle has continued to grow, and as far as I know, McD has not
significantly changed the basic plan. No doubt they're able to
piggyback on McD's distribution system and buying power and improve the
bottom line that way, in addition to simply being popular.

The employees all seem to be hard working and glad to be doing what
they're doing, so I assume they're treated well. I've been to three
different Chipotle stores and within the limitations of the menu they
offer, the food in each has been good and the service pleasant and
efficient.

Given what you've said about McD's prices in your area, I'd guess that
it's unlikely a Chipotle outlet would be any more reasonably priced, so
you probably don't have much to McWorry about...

Bob
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message > I believe the Chipotle chain started out as a high-minded venture to
> offer good, high-guality Mexican-style fast food at decent prices, and
> to offer decent employment, management and franchising opportunities for
> minority (mainly Latino) workers. They apparently achieved all of these
> goals, and grew quite a bit on their own before the McD acquisition,
> which seemed to be kept fairly quiet, as such things go.


<snip>
> The employees all seem to be hard working and glad to be doing what
> they're doing, so I assume they're treated well. I've been to three
> different Chipotle stores and within the limitations of the menu they
> offer, the food in each has been good and the service pleasant and
> efficient.


My goals are similar, except for the part about selling to McDonald's
:-)


> Given what you've said about McD's prices in your area, I'd guess that
> it's unlikely a Chipotle outlet would be any more reasonably priced, so
> you probably don't have much to McWorry about...


Maybe not, but after reading your message this morning, I went
straight to my accountant's office and spent the better part of the
day filing trademark paperwork for "rechê", so thanks again for the
heads-up. While checking online to see if the word was taken, I found
out that the name "Café California", which I was planning to use, was
registered in 1996 to someone up in Minas Gerais. No big loss, though;
it's kind of a cool sounding and plausible name (I'm from CA, and it
could be said that the food is too), but it didn't fit 100% with my
business model. "Café" gives the image of a café, whereas my store has
limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
comfortable place to linger over coffee. Café Cancún is a popular
nightclub franchised in various cities in Brazil; there is a local
dance place called Café Red; and another guy from California has a
Mexican restaurant up in Balneário Camboriu called Café Matatlntico,
or so I'm told; so I could have gotten away with Café California just
fine if it weren't already taken. But I am in a high-foot-traffic
location downtown, where speed and agility are vital; so my proposed
business name of Rechê Rápido or Rechê-Rápido is more appropriate: the
first word describes the product, and the second describes the
delivery format.

IB

P.S.
For those who haven't seen the Chipotle website, it's pretty groovy:

www.chipotle.com/


  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message > I believe the Chipotle chain started out as a high-minded venture to
> offer good, high-guality Mexican-style fast food at decent prices, and
> to offer decent employment, management and franchising opportunities for
> minority (mainly Latino) workers. They apparently achieved all of these
> goals, and grew quite a bit on their own before the McD acquisition,
> which seemed to be kept fairly quiet, as such things go.


<snip>
> The employees all seem to be hard working and glad to be doing what
> they're doing, so I assume they're treated well. I've been to three
> different Chipotle stores and within the limitations of the menu they
> offer, the food in each has been good and the service pleasant and
> efficient.


My goals are similar, except for the part about selling to McDonald's
:-)


> Given what you've said about McD's prices in your area, I'd guess that
> it's unlikely a Chipotle outlet would be any more reasonably priced, so
> you probably don't have much to McWorry about...


Maybe not, but after reading your message this morning, I went
straight to my accountant's office and spent the better part of the
day filing trademark paperwork for "rechê", so thanks again for the
heads-up. While checking online to see if the word was taken, I found
out that the name "Café California", which I was planning to use, was
registered in 1996 to someone up in Minas Gerais. No big loss, though;
it's kind of a cool sounding and plausible name (I'm from CA, and it
could be said that the food is too), but it didn't fit 100% with my
business model. "Café" gives the image of a café, whereas my store has
limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
comfortable place to linger over coffee. Café Cancún is a popular
nightclub franchised in various cities in Brazil; there is a local
dance place called Café Red; and another guy from California has a
Mexican restaurant up in Balneário Camboriu called Café Matatlntico,
or so I'm told; so I could have gotten away with Café California just
fine if it weren't already taken. But I am in a high-foot-traffic
location downtown, where speed and agility are vital; so my proposed
business name of Rechê Rápido or Rechê-Rápido is more appropriate: the
first word describes the product, and the second describes the
delivery format.

IB

P.S.
For those who haven't seen the Chipotle website, it's pretty groovy:

www.chipotle.com/
  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message > I believe the Chipotle chain started out as a high-minded venture to
> offer good, high-guality Mexican-style fast food at decent prices, and
> to offer decent employment, management and franchising opportunities for
> minority (mainly Latino) workers. They apparently achieved all of these
> goals, and grew quite a bit on their own before the McD acquisition,
> which seemed to be kept fairly quiet, as such things go.


<snip>
> The employees all seem to be hard working and glad to be doing what
> they're doing, so I assume they're treated well. I've been to three
> different Chipotle stores and within the limitations of the menu they
> offer, the food in each has been good and the service pleasant and
> efficient.


My goals are similar, except for the part about selling to McDonald's
:-)


> Given what you've said about McD's prices in your area, I'd guess that
> it's unlikely a Chipotle outlet would be any more reasonably priced, so
> you probably don't have much to McWorry about...


Maybe not, but after reading your message this morning, I went
straight to my accountant's office and spent the better part of the
day filing trademark paperwork for "rechê", so thanks again for the
heads-up. While checking online to see if the word was taken, I found
out that the name "Café California", which I was planning to use, was
registered in 1996 to someone up in Minas Gerais. No big loss, though;
it's kind of a cool sounding and plausible name (I'm from CA, and it
could be said that the food is too), but it didn't fit 100% with my
business model. "Café" gives the image of a café, whereas my store has
limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
comfortable place to linger over coffee. Café Cancún is a popular
nightclub franchised in various cities in Brazil; there is a local
dance place called Café Red; and another guy from California has a
Mexican restaurant up in Balneário Camboriu called Café Matatlntico,
or so I'm told; so I could have gotten away with Café California just
fine if it weren't already taken. But I am in a high-foot-traffic
location downtown, where speed and agility are vital; so my proposed
business name of Rechê Rápido or Rechê-Rápido is more appropriate: the
first word describes the product, and the second describes the
delivery format.

IB

P.S.
For those who haven't seen the Chipotle website, it's pretty groovy:

www.chipotle.com/
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
BillB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 3 Sep 2004 19:54:10 -0700, Incontinentius Buttocks wrote:

> "Café" gives the image of a café, whereas my store has
> limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
> comfortable place to linger over coffee.


Then you have a little "Counter Café". Would word order matter
(assuming that Counter would be understood and inoffensive in
Brazil)? In the USA either "Café California" or "California Café"
would work, with the former even indicating a slightly more upscale
establishment. I like the sound of Rechê Rápido though.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
BillB
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 3 Sep 2004 19:54:10 -0700, Incontinentius Buttocks wrote:

> "Café" gives the image of a café, whereas my store has
> limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
> comfortable place to linger over coffee.


Then you have a little "Counter Café". Would word order matter
(assuming that Counter would be understood and inoffensive in
Brazil)? In the USA either "Café California" or "California Café"
would work, with the former even indicating a slightly more upscale
establishment. I like the sound of Rechê Rápido though.
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, =20
says...
> Maybe not, but after reading your message this morning, I went
> straight to my accountant's office and spent the better part of the
> day filing trademark paperwork for "rech=EA", so thanks again for the
> heads-up. While checking online to see if the word was taken, I found
> out that the name "Caf=E9 California", which I was planning to use, was
> registered in 1996 to someone up in Minas Gerais. No big loss, though;
> it's kind of a cool sounding and plausible name (I'm from CA, and it
> could be said that the food is too), but it didn't fit 100% with my
> business model. "Caf=E9" gives the image of a caf=E9, whereas my store ha=

s
> limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
> comfortable place to linger over coffee. Caf=E9 Canc=FAn is a popular
> nightclub franchised in various cities in Brazil; there is a local
> dance place called Caf=E9 Red; and another guy from California has a
> Mexican restaurant up in Balne=E1rio Camboriu called Caf=E9 Matatl=E2ntic=

o,
> or so I'm told; so I could have gotten away with Caf=E9 California just
> fine if it weren't already taken. But I am in a high-foot-traffic
> location downtown, where speed and agility are vital; so my proposed
> business name of Rech=EA R=E1pido or Rech=EA-R=E1pido is more appropriate=

: the
> first word describes the product, and the second describes the
> delivery format.
>=20
> IB
>=20

Sounds like you're going about things in the right way. Aside from the=20
"threat" of McD that kind of looms over any small fast food business=20
anywhere in the world, your more immediate concern is probably much more=20
local. When your concept takes off, it's a virtual given that the=20
competition will copy it. Any "intellectual property" protection you=20
can get for yourself up front is just plain smart business.

Good luck,
Bob


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, =20
says...
> Maybe not, but after reading your message this morning, I went
> straight to my accountant's office and spent the better part of the
> day filing trademark paperwork for "rech=EA", so thanks again for the
> heads-up. While checking online to see if the word was taken, I found
> out that the name "Caf=E9 California", which I was planning to use, was
> registered in 1996 to someone up in Minas Gerais. No big loss, though;
> it's kind of a cool sounding and plausible name (I'm from CA, and it
> could be said that the food is too), but it didn't fit 100% with my
> business model. "Caf=E9" gives the image of a caf=E9, whereas my store ha=

s
> limited space with counters and stools, not meant to be a particularly
> comfortable place to linger over coffee. Caf=E9 Canc=FAn is a popular
> nightclub franchised in various cities in Brazil; there is a local
> dance place called Caf=E9 Red; and another guy from California has a
> Mexican restaurant up in Balne=E1rio Camboriu called Caf=E9 Matatl=E2ntic=

o,
> or so I'm told; so I could have gotten away with Caf=E9 California just
> fine if it weren't already taken. But I am in a high-foot-traffic
> location downtown, where speed and agility are vital; so my proposed
> business name of Rech=EA R=E1pido or Rech=EA-R=E1pido is more appropriate=

: the
> first word describes the product, and the second describes the
> delivery format.
>=20
> IB
>=20

Sounds like you're going about things in the right way. Aside from the=20
"threat" of McD that kind of looms over any small fast food business=20
anywhere in the world, your more immediate concern is probably much more=20
local. When your concept takes off, it's a virtual given that the=20
competition will copy it. Any "intellectual property" protection you=20
can get for yourself up front is just plain smart business.

Good luck,
Bob
  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Incontinentius Buttocks
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message >.. .
> Sounds like you're going about things in the right way. Aside from the
> "threat" of McD that kind of looms over any small fast food business
> anywhere in the world, your more immediate concern is probably much more
> local. When your concept takes off, it's a virtual given that the
> competition will copy it. Any "intellectual property" protection you
> can get for yourself up front is just plain smart business.


I've been paying close attention to Michael Gerber's book The
E-Myth, and consider that my product is not just burritos, but the
business itself and the consistency of experience it offers. Gerber's
book was translated into Portuguese in 1986 but soon went out of
print, and people around here don't have much concept of a
systems-oriented business. If someone were to copy my recipes--not
hard to do if they can figure out how to use Google--that won't give
them the systems I'm developing. And if they found out the systems,
they would have to take to heart why the systems are so important;
then they would have to do the work of implementing those systems.
About 60% of the manual I'm writing is centered around who the typical
customer is, what his expectations are, and exactly what we will do
each and every time to meet or exceed those expectations. Within the
first two months of business I will start surveying customers to see
if my assumptions are correct, and modify the operation according to
their responses. I wonder if any business owner around here, with the
exception of a few franchisees, has ever taken these measures, and
unfortunately it's reflected in the service that is typically offered
to the customer. This is exactly what has caused a number of local
restaurants with perfectly good food to go out of business. So if
other people figure out how to make tortillas and burritos, they're
only halfway to making me nervous.

IB (who really ought to think of another handle)
  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jos? Mar?a Aznar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> wrote in message >.. .
> In article >,
> says...
> > IB (who really ought to think of another handle)
> >

> Yeah, I was going to ask about that, but ...
>
> Bob


OK, it's done.

I learned the hard way you should never put your real e-mail address
in a newsgroup posting, unless you are inordinately interested in
improving the size and rigidity of a certain body part, observing zoo
sex, paying off your mortgage and debts, and assisting former
officials of the Nigerian government. So I made a throwaway email
account and picked a name at random

http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedea.../scene-13.html

but it was time for a new one.

On the subject of tortillas, I made my previous recipe last night (2
cups flour, 3/4 cup milk, 1-2 tbsp oil, a bit of salt and yeast), and
IMO this is much lighter and tastier than the ones I was trying to
make with loads of lard. The larded ones were very heavy on the
stomach, in addition to being just plain greasy-- of course, I could
have been doing something wrong, too. But pretty soon the press will
be treated with Teflon, so I should be able to make the lighter
tortillas without them sticking.

IB-- er, make that JMA
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