I'm more interested in the Tex-Mex 60's style chili gravy made homestyle
with hambuger meat. It's a gravy/sauce used over enchiladas and tamales
with that touch of Masa Harina. This same recipe was used for chili when
"chili grind" meat was used instead of hambuger. I have two good
recipes but they lack a certain depth flavor. Any suggestions?

I have used 4 dried red New Mexico chiles and 8 dried red ancho chiles
instead of the Gebbart's chile power from time to time but to my taste
there still seems a certain lacking.... in this recipe, can you put
your finger on it?

This is an example of a good, not great, chili gravy:

Chili Gravy

4 tablespoons lard or peanut oil
1 medium onion, finely chopped
2 large cloves of garlic, minced or put through a garlic press
1 tablespoon bacon drippings
½ cup Gebbardt's chili powder ¼ teaspoon ground cumin
¼ teaspoon dried oregano, preferably Mexican
4 cups beef stock
1 tablespoon Masa Harina
Salt to taste

Directions:
Over medium heat, sauté the onion and garlic in the lard or peanut oil
until the onion is softened, but not browned. Stir in the bacon
drippings, chili powder, cumin, oregano; then add the beef stock, a
little at a time, stirring well.

Simmer, uncovered, for 30 minutes until mixture is slightly reduced and
thickened. Mix the Masa Harina with a few tablespoons of water or the
gravy, itself, and stir back into the gravy. Simmer for 10 minutes more.


Thanks,
doc

"William Jennings" > wrote in message
...
> to my taste there still seems a certain lacking in this recipe,
> can you put your finger on it?
>
*****There's no meat in it for starters*****
>
Ingredients in order of addition:

1 Tbsp lard
1 lb fine ground CHUCK (browned)
1 tsp black pepper
1/2 tsp cayenne pepper
4 cubes beef bullion
1 Tbsp Masa Harina
1/4 cup Chili powder
1/2 tsp cumin
1 Tbsp Paprika
1 1/2 tsp garlic powder
1 chopped onion
15 oz can of unsalted crushed tomatoes
1/2 Large can of unsalted tomato juice

Brown meat, black and cayenne pepper in a
large Pot on a medium high heat.

Add bullion cubes, mash till broken well,
add masa, stir well scraping bottom to de-glaze.
If a lot sticks to bottom, remove meat and de-glaze
pan with a little water.

Add the rest of the ingredients.
simmer for two hours stirring occasionally,
adding tomato juice to thin as necessary.
salt to taste.

Yes, I forgot to mention the meat. I ususally use a pound of hambuger
meat myself. I figured since I was so off by not mentioning the meat I
was going to make it just as you say. Went and got everything a few
minutes ago and will make it tomorrow before I say anything else.

Thanks Mr. Wizard,
doc


"Mr. Wizard" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "William Jennings" > wrote in message
> ...
> > to my taste there still seems a certain lacking in this recipe,
> > can you put your finger on it?
> >
> *****There's no meat in it for starters*****
> >
> Ingredients in order of addition:
>
> 1 Tbsp lard
> 1 lb fine ground CHUCK (browned)
> 1 tsp black pepper
> 1/2 tsp cayenne pepper
> 4 cubes beef bullion
> 1 Tbsp Masa Harina
> 1/4 cup Chili powder
> 1/2 tsp cumin
> 1 Tbsp Paprika
> 1 1/2 tsp garlic powder
> 1 chopped onion
> 15 oz can of unsalted crushed tomatoes
> 1/2 Large can of unsalted tomato juice
>
> Brown meat, black and cayenne pepper in a
> large Pot on a medium high heat.
>
> Add bullion cubes, mash till broken well,
> add masa, stir well scraping bottom to de-glaze.
> If a lot sticks to bottom, remove meat and de-glaze
> pan with a little water.
>
> Add the rest of the ingredients.
> simmer for two hours stirring occasionally,
> adding tomato juice to thin as necessary.
> salt to taste.
>
>

"William Jennings" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, I forgot to mention the meat. I ususally use a pound of hambuger
> meat myself. I figured since I was so off by not mentioning the meat I
> was going to make it just as you say. Went and got everything a few
> minutes ago and will make it tomorrow before I say anything else.
>
> Thanks Mr. Wizard,
> doc

This not intended to be a personal criticism (which I would be slow to do as
my maternal grandfather was a Jennings), but there is no such thing as
hamburger meat. The residents of Hamburg use a wide variety of meats. I
realize that many Americans refer to ground beef as hamburger. This, I
imagine comes from the use of ground beef in hamburger sandwiches. Also,
there is no "meat" called hamburger. If one wishes to refer to a ground meat
it is best and much more accurate to refer to the species and cut. For a
hamburger, for instance, I prefer ground beef chuck. Note that in most other
English speaking countries "ground meats" are called "minced meats". It is,
I believe, a regional thing to some extent. The most horrific variation I've
run into over the years, is referring to ground beef as "hamburg". Egad!

Charlie

William Jennings wrote:
>
> I'm more interested in the Tex-Mex 60's style chili gravy made homestyle
> with hambuger meat. It's a gravy/sauce used over enchiladas and tamales
> with that touch of Masa Harina. This same recipe was used for chili when
> "chili grind" meat was used instead of hambuger. I have two good
> recipes but they lack a certain depth flavor. Any suggestions?

When I think of chile gravy, I think of beef broth thickened with
masa, flavored with ground dried chiles or pureed reconstituted
whole dried chiles, then seasoned with salt 'n ground black pepper
and maybe some ground cumin. That's pretty much all that's in it.
It's what I do with the cooking liquid left over from making beef
for tamales. The long, slow cooking process makes for a rich,
beefy broth that I'm sure enhances the flavor. I'd also say
the rendered fat that remains with the broth makes a positive
contribution to the end result.

What you describe would be more a meat sauce to me. The recipe you
posted sounds tasty, though, and I can't see what I'd change or add.
If you're trying to replicate something from your past, it might
be a hopeless venture. I used to buy tamales from a tamaleria near
Fifth and Bristol in Santa Ana, CA. A red chile gravy was offered
on the side that I remember as being the tastiest such sauce I've
ever had. I've tried for years to make a chile gravy that would
take my taste buds back in time, but haven't yet succeeded.

Rich

Additional reseach at:
http://chichissalsa.com/recipe.asp?g...true&gid=33342

Doc :-)

"Rich McCormack" > wrote in message
...

<Snipped interesting stuff for ease of reading.>

> If you're trying to replicate something from your past, it might
> be a hopeless venture.>

I know two places in San Antonio and two in Corpus Christi, Texas that
serve this. Some here may know "Snapka's Drive-In" and the Donut-Hole
in Corpus Christi where they make what they call ~Chili Gravy~. It just
can't seem to get my hands on the recipe.


> I used to buy tamales from a tamaleria near > Fifth and Bristol in
Santa Ana, CA. A red chile gravy was offered
> on the side that I remember as being the tastiest such sauce I've ever
had. I've tried for years to make a chile gravy that would take my
taste buds back in time, but haven't yet succeeded.<
>

Rich, I'm going to try and get next to one of the cooks and find out
about that recipe. If I find more or better information I'll forward it
to you. I've noted your very accurate recipes in the past.

Thanks,
Doc

Thats real amazing. We have never called it anything but hamburger. In
the store on the sign it says hamburger $1.98 a pound. Are they wrong too?
Well we will just keep on buying our hamburg and enjoy it on the outside
grill or in grease in a pan on the stove.
Gram

Charles Gifford wrote:

> "William Jennings" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Yes, I forgot to mention the meat. I ususally use a pound of hambuger
>>meat myself. I figured since I was so off by not mentioning the meat I
>>was going to make it just as you say. Went and got everything a few
>>minutes ago and will make it tomorrow before I say anything else.
>>
>>Thanks Mr. Wizard,
>>doc
>
>
> This not intended to be a personal criticism (which I would be slow to do as
> my maternal grandfather was a Jennings), but there is no such thing as
> hamburger meat. The residents of Hamburg use a wide variety of meats. I
> realize that many Americans refer to ground beef as hamburger. This, I
> imagine comes from the use of ground beef in hamburger sandwiches. Also,
> there is no "meat" called hamburger. If one wishes to refer to a ground meat
> it is best and much more accurate to refer to the species and cut. For a
> hamburger, for instance, I prefer ground beef chuck. Note that in most other
> English speaking countries "ground meats" are called "minced meats". It is,
> I believe, a regional thing to some extent. The most horrific variation I've
> run into over the years, is referring to ground beef as "hamburg". Egad!
>
> Charlie
>
>

"William Jennings" > wrote in message
...
>
> After reading your message I checked the package of "suspect meat" I
> bought last night. The package states "Hambuger meat with natural
> flavors." I suppose sometimes we must take into account local customs
> and vernacular expressions. We both know what a German "burger" is:
> http://busycooks.about.com/library/r...lgermanbur.htm After much
> research I found
> this from a German news artical:
> http://www.rense.com/general20/germancowAL.htm
>
> Frankly, I'm more concerned with what "natural flavors" may mean than
> the term hamburger.
>
> Doc

Well, first of all, I was the worst for gin and tonics when I wrote my
message. In short, I was blotto or I wouldn't have writen it. It was a tad
rude for which I apologise.

Secondly, I tend to be touchy about making things accessable to everyone.
The vernacular is fine but not clear to some of our readers. As with all
Usenet, this is a world-wide audience.

Charlie

Grams wrote:
> Thats real amazing. We have never called it anything but hamburger. In
> the store on the sign it says hamburger $1.98 a pound. Are they wrong too?
> Well we will just keep on buying our hamburg and enjoy it on the outside
> grill or in grease in a pan on the stove.
> Gram
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
>
>> "William Jennings" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Yes, I forgot to mention the meat. I ususally use a pound of hambuger
>>> meat myself. I figured since I was so off by not mentioning the meat I
>>> was going to make it just as you say. Went and got everything a few
>>> minutes ago and will make it tomorrow before I say anything else.
>>>
>>> Thanks Mr. Wizard,
>>> doc
>>
>>
>>
>> This not intended to be a personal criticism (which I would be slow to
>> do as
>> my maternal grandfather was a Jennings), but there is no such thing as
>> hamburger meat. The residents of Hamburg use a wide variety of meats. I
>> realize that many Americans refer to ground beef as hamburger. This, I
>> imagine comes from the use of ground beef in hamburger sandwiches. Also,
>> there is no "meat" called hamburger. If one wishes to refer to a
>> ground meat
>> it is best and much more accurate to refer to the species and cut. For a
>> hamburger, for instance, I prefer ground beef chuck. Note that in most
>> other
>> English speaking countries "ground meats" are called "minced meats".
>> It is,
>> I believe, a regional thing to some extent. The most horrific
>> variation I've
>> run into over the years, is referring to ground beef as "hamburg". Egad!
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>>
>

Its a variation on Joseph Goebbels: tell people a lie often enough and
it will become the truth. Have you seen what *$ has done in terms of
naming their drinks? Sometimes totally corrupting what has been around
for a very long time.

A tall is a small, a grande is a medium and a venti is a large.

Then there's TacoBell. . .


jim

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "William Jennings" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > After reading your message I checked the package of "suspect meat" I
> > bought last night. The package states "Hambuger meat with natural
> > flavors." I suppose sometimes we must take into account local
customs
> > and vernacular expressions. We both know what a German "burger"
is:
> > http://busycooks.about.com/library/r...lgermanbur.htm After
much
> > research I found
> > this from a German news artical:
> > http://www.rense.com/general20/germancowAL.htm
> >
> > Frankly, I'm more concerned with what "natural flavors" may mean
than
> > the term hamburger.
> >
> > Doc
>
> Well, first of all, I was the worst for gin and tonics when I wrote my
> message. In short, I was blotto or I wouldn't have writen it. It was a
tad
> rude for which I apologise.
>
> Secondly, I tend to be touchy about making things accessable to
everyone.
> The vernacular is fine but not clear to some of our readers. As with
all
> Usenet, this is a world-wide audience.
>
> Charlie

Charlie,

No need to apologise, it didn't offend me in the least, a man is
entitled to his gin and tonics. There is no law concerning "Typing
Under the Influence" (TUI). I have had several private responses
clearing up the mystery of "Chili Gravy."

Doc

Well, it is quite a leap from lard to peanut oil to bacon drippings.
From my grandmother's recipe:

I would use half lard, and add
drippings from a pork roast or fry. Of course the Peanut Oil is more
healthy, but
it burns at too low a temperature leaving an undefinable bad taste.

Gebbhardt's chili power is no substitute for fresh chopped chili peppers.

1 tsp Fresh basil or oregano instead of dried oregano.

And a handful of cooked pork pieces

Pork stock instead of beef stock, perhaps.


Ray Bayless



William Jennings wrote:

>I'm more interested in the Tex-Mex 60's style chili gravy made homestyle
>with hambuger meat. It's a gravy/sauce used over enchiladas and tamales
>with that touch of Masa Harina. This same recipe was used for chili when
>"chili grind" meat was used instead of hambuger. I have two good
>recipes but they lack a certain depth flavor. Any suggestions?
>
>I have used 4 dried red New Mexico chiles and 8 dried red ancho chiles
>instead of the Gebbart's chile power from time to time but to my taste
>there still seems a certain lacking.... in this recipe, can you put
>your finger on it?
>
>This is an example of a good, not great, chili gravy:
>
> Chili Gravy
>
>4 tablespoons lard or peanut oil
>1 medium onion, finely chopped
>2 large cloves of garlic, minced or put through a garlic press
>1 tablespoon bacon drippings
>½ cup Gebbardt's chili powder ¼ teaspoon ground cumin
>¼ teaspoon dried oregano, preferably Mexican
>4 cups beef stock
>1 tablespoon Masa Harina
>Salt to taste
>
>Directions:
>Over medium heat, sauté the onion and garlic in the lard or peanut oil
>until the onion is softened, but not browned. Stir in the bacon
>drippings, chili powder, cumin, oregano; then add the beef stock, a
>little at a time, stirring well.
>
>Simmer, uncovered, for 30 minutes until mixture is slightly reduced and
>thickened. Mix the Masa Harina with a few tablespoons of water or the
>gravy, itself, and stir back into the gravy. Simmer for 10 minutes more.
>
>
>Thanks,
>doc
>
>
>
>

I make a variation based on using good quality fresh chorizo which is
available locally.

The gravy is made from commercial adobo paste, to which I add broth to
get the heavy cream consistancy. I add 1 teaspoon of ground Naranja
for its great flavor, but it comes with a lot of heat.

Separately I remove casings from chorizo and brown the ground meat,
then drain the grease. The add the chorizo to the gravy. The chorizo
has plently of spices so additional spices are not needed.

I notice your recipe has onions which sounds like a good addition.
I'll try them next time I make it.

It is still good without the Naranja. I don't see that pepper very
often.

"William Jennings" > wrote:

>I'm more interested in the Tex-Mex 60's style chili gravy made homestyle
>with hambuger meat. It's a gravy/sauce used over enchiladas and tamales
>with that touch of Masa Harina. This same recipe was used for chili when
>"chili grind" meat was used instead of hambuger. I have two good
>recipes but they lack a certain depth flavor. Any suggestions?

"Ray Bay" > wrote in message
...
> Well, it is quite a leap from lard to peanut oil to bacon drippings.
> From my grandmother's recipe:
>
> I would use half lard, and add
> drippings from a pork roast or fry. Of course the Peanut Oil is more
> healthy, but
> it burns at too low a temperature leaving an undefinable bad taste.
>

I use refined peanut oil often to deep fry shrimp and fish. It is one
of the safest deep-frying oils because of it's very high
smoking point at 450 degrees F.

Type Smoke Point

Canola (refined) 400 [degrees] F (medium-high heat)
Corn (unrefined) 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
Corn (refined) 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
Nut (walnut, hazelnut) 305 [degrees] F (low heat)
(unrefined)
Nut (walnut, hazelnut) 400 [degrees] F (medium-high heat)
(refined)
Olive (unrefined) 350 [degrees] F (medium heat)
Peanut (unrefined) 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
Peanut (refined) 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
Safflower (unrefined) 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
Safflower (refined) 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
Safflower, high-oleic 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
(unrefined)
Safflower, high-oleic 450 [degrees] F (medium-high heat)
(refined)
Sesame (unrefined) 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
Sesame (refined) 400 [degrees] F (medium-high heat)
Sunflower (refined) 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
Sunflower, high-oleic 320 [degrees] F (medium heat)
(unrefined)
Sunflower, high-oleic 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
(refined)
Vegetable (soybean) 450 [degrees] F (high heat)
(refined)

Doc

They but dirt in it, there for the claim "Natural Flavorings" ;-)

--
Of all the things I fear, I fear Flying Bit's the most