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1,500 year old Chiles..
from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm
Source: Smithsonian Date: July 11, 2007 More on: Agriculture and Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered Plants, Food, Archaeology, Fossils Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years Ago Science Daily - One of the world's tastiest and most popular cuisines, Mexican food also may be one of the oldest. These chili peppers from the Guila Naquitz cave in Oaxaca Mexico date to between A.D. 490 and 780, and represent two cultivars or cultivated types. A Smithsonian scientist analyzed the chili pepper remains and determined that Pre-Columbian inhabitants of the region hundreds of years ago enjoyed a spicy fare similar to Mexican cuisine today. (Credit: Linda Perry, Smithsonian Institution) Plant remains from two caves in southern Mexico analyzed by a Smithsonian ethnobotanist/ archaeologist and a colleague indicate that as early as 1,500 years ago, Pre-Columbian inhabitants of the region enjoyed a spicy fare similar to Mexican cuisine today. The two caves yielded 10 different cultivars (cultivated varieties) of chili peppers. "This analysis demonstrates that chilies in Mexican food have been numerous and complex for a long period of time," said lead author Linda Perry, of the Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History. "It reveals a great antiquity for the Mexican cuisine that we're familiar with today." Perry and Kent V. Flannery, of the University of Michigan, studied desiccated plant remains from excavations in Guilá Naquitz and Silvia's Cave, two dry rock shelters near Mitla in the Valley of Oaxaca, southern Mexico. Guilá Naquitz is famous for its well- preserved plant remains, dating back to the beginnings of squash cultivation in Mexico some 10,000 years ago. Arid conditions through the centuries prevented decay of the crop remains, which include corn, squash, beans, avocados and chili peppers. This new study focuses on the two upper layers of ash and debris known as Zone "A" and "Super-A," spanning the period circa A.D. 500--1500. Perry was able to distinguish different cultivars among the abundantly preserved chili peppers, a type of analysis that had not been completed on ancient Mexican chilies. Perry found that peppers from Guilá Naquitz included at least seven different cultivars. Peppers from the smaller sample in Silvia's cave represented three cultivars. It is unknown whether the cultivars found in the cave correspond to modern varieties, or if they were types that died out after the arrival of Europeans in Mexico. Perry said one looks like a Tabasco pepper and another like a cayenne pepper, but it is difficult to know how closely related they are to modern varieties without a genetic analysis. "What was interesting to me was that we were able to determine that they were using the peppers both dried and fresh," Perry said. (Chilies broken while fresh had a recognizable breakage pattern.) "It shows us that ancient Mexican food was very much like today. They would have used fresh peppers in salsas or in immediate preparation, and they would have used the dried peppers to toss into stews or to grind up into sauces like moles." During the period circa A.D. 500--1500, the caves served as temporary camps and storage areas for farmers from Mitla--a major town on the river of the same name--whose cultivated fields evidently extended to the slopes of the piedmont below Guilá Naquitz and Silvia's Cave. The Zapotec-speaking people planted crops in several environmental zones-- river bottoms, piedmont and mountains-- probably as a way of buffering risk; it also added variety to the diet. "In the cave deposits, we can see excellent documentation for the sophistication of the agriculture and the cuisine at this point in time," Perry said. "You don't grow seven different kinds of chilies unless you're cooking some pretty interesting food." The study will be published the week of July 9 in the online edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Note: This story has been adapted from a news release issued by Smithsonian. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Sonoran Dude wrote:
> wrote: >> from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm >> >> Source: Smithsonian Date: July 11, 2007 More on: Agriculture and >> Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered Plants, Food, Archaeology, >> Fossils >> >> Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years >> Ago > > > 1,500 years ago? How about these guys... > > Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were > chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times > — as far back as 7500 B.C. > > Chiltepins Rock! We don't need no stinkin Tabasco peppers. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiltepin "The Tarahumara Indians of the Sonoran Desert in Mexico believe that chiltepins were the greatest protection against the evils of sorcery. One of their proverbs holds that 'The man who does not eat chile is immediately suspected of being a sorcerer.'" Interesting! -- Blinky RLU 297263 Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 10, 7:02?am, wrote:
> "It shows us that ancient Mexican food was very much like today. They > would have used fresh peppers in salsas or in immediate preparation, > and they would have used the dried peppers to toss into stews or to > grind up into sauces like moles." Archaeologists would be far more likely to find a petrified taco than a fossilized guiso. ;-) |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > wrote: > > from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm > > > > Source: Smithsonian > > Date: July 11, 2007 > > More on: Agriculture and Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered > > Plants, Food, Archaeology, Fossils > > > > Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years > > Ago > > > 1,500 years ago? How about these guys... > > Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were > chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times ‹ > as far back as 7500 B.C. > > Chiltepins Rock! We don't need no stinkin Tabasco peppers. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiltepin I have a rather large "wild" bush of those now that I've been babying and keeping alive for at least 10 years. :-) I need to take pics of it. I thought it had died the end of last fall as the upper part got "crispy" dry but refrained from pulling it up. This spring, it sprouted fresh branches off the base and is as large as ever. It's a good 3 ft. tall and 3 ft. across. I feed most of them to my Cockatoo as they are an excellent sources of vitamin C and trace minerals. I can't always get her to eat Citrus fruits. She loves them! ;-) It's looking lovely with a baby crop of peppers this year. 2 years ago, I allowed someone to come and pick the bush as all of his wild volunteers locally had vanished. I've used a few for cooking but my favorite way to use them is to dump a bunch into white vinegar, and use the extract for salads and fish. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 11, 7:53 am, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > > > wrote: > > > from:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm > > > > Source: Smithsonian > > > Date: July 11, 2007 > > > More on: Agriculture and Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered > > > Plants, Food, Archaeology, Fossils > > > > Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years > > > Ago > > > 1,500 years ago? How about these guys... > > > Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were > > chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times €¹ > > as far back as 7500 B.C. > > > Chiltepins Rock! We don't need no stinkin Tabasco peppers. > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiltepin > > I have a rather large "wild" bush of those now that I've been babying > and keeping alive for at least 10 years. :-) I need to take pics of it. > > I thought it had died the end of last fall as the upper part got > "crispy" dry but refrained from pulling it up. > > This spring, it sprouted fresh branches off the base and is as large as > ever. It's a good 3 ft. tall and 3 ft. across. We had a huge plant in a huge pot on the stair landing of our apartment in Hudson, FL. It easily survived the "winter" there. > > I feed most of them to my Cockatoo as they are an excellent sources of > vitamin C and trace minerals. I can't always get her to eat Citrus > fruits. > > She loves them! ;-) Birds do not have receptors or whatever that perceive capsaicin as an irritant. > > It's looking lovely with a baby crop of peppers this year. > > 2 years ago, I allowed someone to come and pick the bush as all of his > wild volunteers locally had vanished. I've used a few for cooking but > my favorite way to use them is to dump a bunch into white vinegar, and > use the extract for salads and fish. > -- > Peace, Om --Bryan |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Omelet wrote:
> In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > >> wrote: >>> from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm >>> >>> Source: Smithsonian >>> Date: July 11, 2007 >>> More on: Agriculture and Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered >>> Plants, Food, Archaeology, Fossils >>> >>> Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years >>> Ago >> >> 1,500 years ago? How about these guys... >> >> Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were >> chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times ‹ >> as far back as 7500 B.C. >> >> Chiltepins Rock! We don't need no stinkin Tabasco peppers. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiltepin > > I have a rather large "wild" bush of those now that I've been babying > and keeping alive for at least 10 years. :-) I need to take pics of it. > > I thought it had died the end of last fall as the upper part got > "crispy" dry but refrained from pulling it up. > > This spring, it sprouted fresh branches off the base and is as large as > ever. It's a good 3 ft. tall and 3 ft. across. > > I feed most of them to my Cockatoo as they are an excellent sources of > vitamin C and trace minerals. I can't always get her to eat Citrus > fruits. > > She loves them! ;-) > > It's looking lovely with a baby crop of peppers this year. > > 2 years ago, I allowed someone to come and pick the bush as all of his > wild volunteers locally had vanished. I've used a few for cooking but > my favorite way to use them is to dump a bunch into white vinegar, and > use the extract for salads and fish. Start throwing your bird poop out into soil around the yard. The only way to germinate chiltepin seed is to have it pass through a bird or treated with chemicals. Soon you may have a little chiltepin farm going. My tepin bush is one I found on the other side of town and successfully transplanted it to my backyard. They will be ready to pick around November. Parrots love these little peppers too. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article . com>,
"Bobo Bonobo®" > wrote: > > This spring, it sprouted fresh branches off the base and is as large as > > ever. It's a good 3 ft. tall and 3 ft. across. > > We had a huge plant in a huge pot on the stair landing of our > apartment in Hudson, FL. It easily survived the "winter" there. Beautiful aren't they? I've never tried to grow one, I just take care of wild volunteers. > > > > I feed most of them to my Cockatoo as they are an excellent sources of > > vitamin C and trace minerals. I can't always get her to eat Citrus > > fruits. > > > > She loves them! ;-) > > Birds do not have receptors or whatever that perceive capsaicin as an > irritant. I know. And that is not a bad thing! Some people use Cayenne to keep squirrels out of the bird feeders as it does not bother the birds. > > --Bryan -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > Start throwing your bird poop out into soil around the yard. The only > way to germinate chiltepin seed is to have it pass through a bird or > treated with chemicals. > > Soon you may have a little chiltepin farm going. > > My tepin bush is one I found on the other side of town and successfully > transplanted it to my backyard. They will be ready to pick around November. > > Parrots love these little peppers too. I'd have to make a special effort, but that's not a bad idea! Freya is a Goffin's cockatoo and was a "stray". We've cared for her now since 1998 when she flew into my back yard and ate grain off the ground with my chickens. She was horribly destructive so we finally built her an aviary rather than trying to re-home her or worse, driving her insane by locking her in even the largest parrot cage on the market. :-(. So many people that keep these birds for "decoration" are so f-ing clueless! There is nothing sadder than an insane, neglected parrot that plucks itself bare out of boredom. That is not happening here! She is a very loving bird and is a very good friend, but a bit demanding. :-) But that's ok. Her "cage" is 8' long by 4' wide and 6' tall and lined with pine chips on the floor. It's walk in so I can go in there and spend lovey time with her. LOTS of mostly home made toys to keep her occupied. Fascinating bird... I've learned from her that many people are really not prepared to offer some parrots what they really need in the way of attention. They can be a real commitment... Anyway, I'm wandering. :-) I'm not sure, but I guess I could try planting some of her "deposits" from under her favorite roosting spots, but these can also be propagated from air layered or carefully cared for cuttings. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
"Omelet" > wrote in message news > In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > Start throwing your bird poop out into soil around the yard. The only > > way to germinate chiltepin seed is to have it pass through a bird or > > treated with chemicals. > > > > Soon you may have a little chiltepin farm going. > > > > My tepin bush is one I found on the other side of town and successfully > > transplanted it to my backyard. They will be ready to pick around November. > > > > Parrots love these little peppers too. > > I'd have to make a special effort, but that's not a bad idea! > > Freya is a Goffin's cockatoo and was a "stray". We've cared for her now > since 1998 when she flew into my back yard and ate grain off the ground > with my chickens. > > She was horribly destructive so we finally built her an aviary rather > than trying to re-home her or worse, driving her insane by locking her > in even the largest parrot cage on the market. :-(. > > So many people that keep these birds for "decoration" are so f-ing > clueless! There is nothing sadder than an insane, neglected parrot that > plucks itself bare out of boredom. > > That is not happening here! > > She is a very loving bird and is a very good friend, but a bit > demanding. :-) But that's ok. > > Her "cage" is 8' long by 4' wide and 6' tall and lined with pine chips > on the floor. It's walk in so I can go in there and spend lovey time > with her. > > LOTS of mostly home made toys to keep her occupied. > > Fascinating bird... > > I've learned from her that many people are really not prepared to offer > some parrots what they really need in the way of attention. They can be > a real commitment... > > Anyway, I'm wandering. :-) > > I'm not sure, but I guess I could try planting some of her "deposits" > from under her favorite roosting spots, but these can also be propagated > from air layered or carefully cared for cuttings. > -- > Peace, Om > > Remove _ to validate e-mails. > > "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson I'll never order parrot soup again after reading your post! Wow! |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article
>, "Wayne Lundberg" > wrote: > I'll never order parrot soup again after reading your post! > > Wow! Oh. My gods... Parrots are nearly sentient. I'm no vegetarian but I could never bring myself to eat a parrot after associating with them... -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Omelet wrote:
> Beautiful aren't they? > I've never tried to grow one, I just take care of wild volunteers. >> --Bryan Mine is hardly beautiful unless it is harvesting season. It is a very interesting plant though with precise geometric angles to the branching. I have watered mine every summer but this year I'm just letting nature takes its course and see if there is a difference in the flavor. There is a domesticated variety here at a Tucson Botanical park and I bought one for a friend several miles away so not to cross pollinate my perfect tasting wild one. He is a master gardener but genetics have everything to do with flavor. His is bitter and much hotter than the wild. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Blinky the Shark > wrote:
>Sonoran Dude wrote: >> wrote: >>> from: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm >>> >>> Source: Smithsonian Date: July 11, 2007 More on: Agriculture and >>> Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered Plants, Food, Archaeology, >>> Fossils >>> >>> Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 Years >>> Ago >> Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were >> chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times >> — as far back as 7500 B.C. >"The Tarahumara Indians of the Sonoran Desert in Mexico believe that >chiltepins were the greatest protection against the evils of sorcery. >One of their proverbs holds that 'The man who does not eat chile is >immediately suspected of being a sorcerer.'" On the other hand, in warfare one tactic of the ancient southwestern Indians was to toss burning chiles into a kiva, killing the persons inside with the fumes. Steve >Interesting! > > >-- >Blinky RLU 297263 >Killing all posts from Google Groups >The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 11, 12:56?pm, Omelet > wrote:
> Parrots are nearly sentient. Plants and many invertebrate animals are *sentient*, they react to heat, light, or pain, and some people even claim that if you talk to plants they grow better. Maybe it's the CO2 in their breath. Parrots are *sapient*. They can learn non-natural behaviors. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Steve Pope wrote:
> Blinky the Shark > wrote: > >>Sonoran Dude wrote: > >>> wrote: > >>>> from: >>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0709171645.htm >>>> >>>> Source: Smithsonian Date: July 11, 2007 More on: Agriculture and >>>> Food, Ancient Civilizations, Endangered Plants, Food, Archaeology, >>>> Fossils >>>> >>>> Ancient Americans Liked It Hot: Mexican Cuisine Traced To 1,500 >>>> Years Ago > >>> Archaeologists in Mexico have discovered evidence that humans were >>> chomping on wild chiles, called chiltepins, during prehistoric times >>> — as far back as 7500 B.C. > >>"The Tarahumara Indians of the Sonoran Desert in Mexico believe that >>chiltepins were the greatest protection against the evils of sorcery. >>One of their proverbs holds that 'The man who does not eat chile is >>immediately suspected of being a sorcerer.'" > > On the other hand, in warfare one tactic of the ancient southwestern > Indians was to toss burning chiles into a kiva, killing the persons > inside with the fumes. I had some college classes in a kiva. That was the name of the round, three-tiered lecture hall in the center section of a couple of the dorms at Michigan State University in the late sixties. -- Blinky RLU 297263 Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Omelet wrote:
> Freya is a Goffin's cockatoo and was a "stray". We've cared for her now > since 1998 when she flew into my back yard and ate grain off the ground > with my chickens. > > She was horribly destructive so we finally built her an aviary rather > than trying to re-home her or worse, driving her insane by locking her > in even the largest parrot cage on the market. :-(. > > So many people that keep these birds for "decoration" are so f-ing > clueless! There is nothing sadder than an insane, neglected parrot that > plucks itself bare out of boredom. > > That is not happening here! > > She is a very loving bird and is a very good friend, but a bit > demanding. :-) But that's ok. > > Her "cage" is 8' long by 4' wide and 6' tall and lined with pine chips > on the floor. It's walk in so I can go in there and spend lovey time > with her. > > LOTS of mostly home made toys to keep her occupied. > > Fascinating bird... > > I've learned from her that many people are really not prepared to offer > some parrots what they really need in the way of attention. They can be > a real commitment... > > Anyway, I'm wandering. :-) > > I'm not sure, but I guess I could try planting some of her "deposits" > from under her favorite roosting spots, but these can also be propagated > from air layered or carefully cared for cuttings. Parrots have been known to escape, but I have a feeling that Freya's former owners could not make the committment that raising a bird requires, so they turned her loose. You are doing a wonderful job giving her love and care, and creating a habitat for Freya to live comfortably. There should be a special place in Heaven for you. Becca |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 11, 5:14�pm, Becca > wrote:
> Parrots have been known to escape, but I have a feeling that Freya's > former owners could not make the committment that raising a bird > requires, so they turned her loose. * There are flocks of parrots and parakeets all over southern California, you can hear them screeching. Nanday conures compete with native downy woodpeckers for cavities in sycamore trees to nest in, and noisy flocks of yellow-chevroned parakeets hang out in the washingtonia palm trees and eat the fruit of non-native ornamental silk floss trees. The most exotic escaped tropical bird I ever saw was a chestnut billed toucan that was making a noise like a gate with a rusty hinge. It was sitting in the top of a pine tree. Who do you report something like that to, the dog catcher? "Sorry. We don't do toucans, Maybe you should call Department of Homeland Security?" Keeping a bird or an animal in a cage for one's own pleasure and then pretending that the creature is a "friend" is a very selfish and cruel action, in my mind. A neighbor put up a sign offering a reward for the return of his beloved "Tony", a yellow cockatiel who had escaped. I know what happened to Tony. My cat ate him. How could I apologize for my cat doing what came naturally to a bird that wasn't supposed to be looking for birdseed on top of my garage? Better Tony's owner should never know what happened to Tony. Let him imagine that Tony found a new home... I would occasionally see an escaped peach faced lovebird or one with a blue head, and of course there are escaped parakeets all over the place. One time I saw a European goldfinch sitting on a neighbor's fence. I saw a cockatiel flying with the pigeons and wondering if it would survive the winter. I used to see a guy who owned a hyacinth macaw allowing it to fly free in the Hollywood hills. I asked him if he wasn't afraid that the native red-tailed hawks that hung out in the canyons wouldn't kill his macaw. He claimed that the macaw could take care of itself. I enjoyed watched the macaw do barrel rolls and loops as it flew down the canyons. It was very maneuverable and interesting to watch. But it didn't belong in that environment. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Rechazador de Disparates > wrote:
>There are flocks of parrots and parakeets all over southern >California, you can hear them screeching. Same here in Berkeley. There is one quarter often visible in West Berkeley, and sporadically elsewhere in town -- maybe the same individuals doing some local traveling, I'm not certain. Steve |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote:
> It was very maneuverable and interesting to watch. But it didn't > belong in that environment. Neither do pet cats. http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/cats.htm nb |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 11, 7:12?pm, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > > > It was very maneuverable and interesting to watch. But it didn't > > belong in that environment. > > Neither do pet cats. My cat wasn't soaring in the thermals above the Hollywood hills, she was in her own backyard. Tony the yellow cockatiel was the species that was most out of place in the urban environment. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote:
> was in her own backyard. Your cat owns a backyard? Does it pay taxes? Has it been posted no trespassing to songbirds? Does the environment and related ecosystems recognize her ownership rights? I know if people kill certain bird species, they can be charged. Why not cats? If cats kill birds, can people kill cats? Just some thoughts I have. nb |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 12, 8:17 am, notbob > wrote:
> On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > > > was in her own backyard. > > Your cat owns a backyard? Does it pay taxes? Has it been posted no > trespassing to songbirds? No. No. Why would the cat want to do that? Better to post a sign that says something like, "Free birdseed," to lure them in. > Does the environment and related ecosystems > recognize her ownership rights? Do "the environment and related ecosystems recognize" HUMAN "ownership rights?" >I know if people kill certain bird > species, they can be charged. Why not cats? If a law says so, a cat could be considered a "nuisance" for killing songbirds, just as it could be for digging up Mrs. Jones' daisies. > If cats kill birds, can people kill cats? When we lived in Florida, a cat attacked me. I would have taken it into the woods, snapped its neck and buried it in the sandy soil, which may have been illegal. My wife insisted that I get a cat trap, then take the captured cat to the animal control folks and pay $25 for THEM to kill it. Same result. Dead cat, but I was out $25 bucks. > Just some thoughts I have. > > nb --Bryan |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 12, 6:17�am, notbob > wrote:
> Your cat owns a backyard? *Does it pay taxes? *Has it been posted no > trespassing to songbirds? *Does the environment and related ecosystems > recognize her ownership rights? *I know if people kill certain bird > species, they can be charged. *Why not cats? *If cats kill birds, can > people kill cats? *Just some thoughts I have. Don't bogart that joint, my friend. Pass it over to me. I have a rational respect for birds and the environment, I don't shoot birds for "sport" but I don't do the backyard bird count or the Christmas bird count either. And I don't believe that cats are satanic. My great grandfather's cousin was with Audubon on his expedition up the Missouri river in the 1840's. The foliage in many of the paintings you see in Audubon's folios painted by him, and Audubon only painted the birds. Audubon named a previously unknown Anthus species after my relative, just as he named other birds after his other friends. I have seen the rare pipit locally, but I didn't *** in my pants over it. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote:
> And I don't believe that cats are satanic. I don't either. I just believe there's too damn many of 'em. nb |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 12, 6:34�am, Bobo Bonobo� > wrote:
> No. No. *Why would the cat want to do that? *Better to post a sign > that says something like, "Free birdseed," to lure them in. My cat used to catch the occasional scrub jay that came down to eat her cat food, sometimes she would catch an English sparrow. One time she was stalking a starling that had fallen out of its nest and a neighbor freaked over the apparent cruelty of a cat hunting an invasive alien species. People get all emotional about birds. That's strange. Birds don't get all emotional about humans, they try to escape from human company. That's why they have to be kept in cages. Human-bird relationships are unnatural. But my cat thinks I'm her mother. She wants to be with me. She doesn't have to be caged, she can hang around her back yard until it's time to be fed. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > Omelet wrote: > > > Beautiful aren't they? > > I've never tried to grow one, I just take care of wild volunteers. > > >> --Bryan > > Mine is hardly beautiful unless it is harvesting season. It is a very > interesting plant though with precise geometric angles to the branching. > I have watered mine every summer but this year I'm just letting nature > takes its course and see if there is a difference in the flavor. > > There is a domesticated variety here at a Tucson Botanical park and I > bought one for a friend several miles away so not to cross pollinate my > perfect tasting wild one. He is a master gardener but genetics have > everything to do with flavor. His is bitter and much hotter than the wild. That does not sound good... My wild ones are sweet with just enough heat to satisfy. I was very pleased that this bush came back! I honestly thought that it died last fall as the branches were crunchy, but I thought I'd leave it be and give it a chance. I'm glad I did: http://i9.tinypic.com/4pds0fr.jpg Pics taken about 1 hour or less ago. Here you can see the size of the bush next to a 5 gallon bucket over to the right. http://i14.tinypic.com/4oubdpy.jpg You can see the dead growth in the background. I was afraid to trim it off because with these bushes, sometimes it's hard to tell and new growth will spring out from what looks like dead branches. This bush is several years old now and produces hundreds of fruits per year about the size of my pinky fingernail. :-) The Cocaktoo is the lucky recipient of many of them. Good source of C which birds need. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article .com>,
Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > On Jul 11, 12:56?pm, Omelet > wrote: > > > Parrots are nearly sentient. > > Plants and many invertebrate animals are *sentient*, they react to > heat, light, or pain, and some people even claim that if you talk to > plants they grow better. Maybe it's the CO2 in their breath. > > Parrots are *sapient*. They can learn non-natural behaviors. Okay. :-) Thanks. Some birds even learn limited tool use. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Becca > wrote: > > Fascinating bird... > > > > I've learned from her that many people are really not prepared to offer > > some parrots what they really need in the way of attention. They can be > > a real commitment... > > > > Anyway, I'm wandering. :-) > > > > I'm not sure, but I guess I could try planting some of her "deposits" > > from under her favorite roosting spots, but these can also be propagated > > from air layered or carefully cared for cuttings. > > Parrots have been known to escape, but I have a feeling that Freya's > former owners could not make the committment that raising a bird > requires, so they turned her loose. You are doing a wonderful job > giving her love and care, and creating a habitat for Freya to live > comfortably. There should be a special place in Heaven for you. > > Becca Thanks... :-) I'm just glad I had the space to do it. I had an Aluminum alloy sun room addition built several years ago. 3" thick foam insulated walls with double glass storm windows and it's own foundation, Window AC and floor heaters as needed. Cost me around 16K. It opens off the Kitchen with French doors. Her Aviary was actually less expensive to build than even the largest commercial parrot cages. Set us back only around $400.00 for chain link fencing poles and 1" x 2" aviary wire. Dad and I built it together. She is happier out there anyway as there is more too look at. LOTS more windows! According to her band, she was around 6 months old when she came to us. It's also possible that some moron did not understand the necessity of wing clipping. Granted, once she had the aviary to live in, I've also stopped wing clipping as she is secure... but I used to do it and got her to play and make a "game" out of it. They love to play. I just can't stand seeing birds bought and used as "decorations" and status symbols. There is an entire network of parrot rescue facilities but most parrots that start self-mutilating never do recover. ;-( I'm glad that Freya never has done that! BTW, infant chewing toys are a great way to save money on parrot toys! They work very well, especially the "busier" ones if you know what I mean? Ones with lots of beads. http://i19.tinypic.com/6g8ujq0.jpg Her "home". http://i18.tinypic.com/5zqibkx.jpg Playing "Eagle bird". :-) I don't know what the hell her previous "owner" did to her in the short time they had her, but it took me a solid 8 years to get her to "step up" and trust hand sitting. I probably could have done it a lot faster if I'd spent more time at it, but I did not want to push her. These birds have LONG memories. It was strange. She'd come to me and climb up and sit on my chest to be cuddled and even hugged so she obviously trusted me, but she was terrified to sit on hands, or shoulders. Even now it makes her a bit nervous, but she's learning... I'm no bird expert, but Freya has taught me a lot. I "listen" to my pets. The most amusing thing about trying to hand-train her was that I accidently taught her to "shake hands" on command ("Shake a paw!") during the process. I was trying to get her used to having her feet handled. It's funny as all get out. :-) Her vocabulary is not extensive, maybe 20 words or so if you include her animal sounds (She meows, clucks and crows). -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article . com>,
Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > Keeping a bird or an animal in a cage for one's own pleasure and then > pretending that the creature is a "friend" is a very selfish and cruel > action, in my mind. If you know what you are doing, parrots make very good friends... but that friendship incurs a certain level of responsibility. It's unfortunate that most people don't even know how to take proper care of a dog, much less a parrot. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article . com>,
Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > A neighbor put up a sign offering a reward for the return of his > beloved "Tony", a yellow cockatiel who had escaped. > > I know what happened to Tony. My cat ate him. > > How could I apologize for my cat doing what came naturally to a bird > that wasn't supposed to be looking for birdseed on top of my garage? > > Better Tony's owner should never know what happened to Tony. Let him > imagine that Tony found a new home... You owe nobody an apology. Cats are cats are cats. I never even scolded my cats for catching birds, but I did bell them. ;-) My cats are no longer allowed outdoors, but that's for THEIR protection any more! -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
notbob > wrote: > On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > > > It was very maneuverable and interesting to watch. But it didn't > > belong in that environment. > > Neither do pet cats. > > http://www.tc.umn.edu/~devo0028/cats.htm > > nb Cats are perfectly capable of adjusting to being strictly indoors. Mine have... Only the oldest ones will go out the door if it accidently gets left ajar, but they come right back in now. The ones that have never been outdoors don't even try. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Omelet wrote:
> In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > You can see the dead growth in the background. I was afraid to trim it > off because with these bushes, sometimes it's hard to tell and new > growth will spring out from what looks like dead branches. > > This bush is several years old now and produces hundreds of fruits per > year about the size of my pinky fingernail. :-) The Cocaktoo is the > lucky recipient of many of them. Good source of C which birds need. Nice looking bush... you must be in a cooler climate to have fruit this early in the season. The Sonoran monsoon rains are rumbling in the distance as I type and we should have showers every night for the next few weeks. My bush will transform to twice it's size and blossom around September and the small fruit will be ready by Nov-Dec. This guy was only about 8 inches tall when I found him. I didn't think he made the cross-town trip in the middle of the summer heat 3 years ago. It looked like he was totally dead but put him in the same distance from a north facing wall where I found him and he was alive and kicking in a week. I've never fertilized him other than letting the pack-rats nest under him and the occasional dead bird carcass from messy owls and hawks. My soil is native desert so he seems to be happy. I know it's time to pick when I see Red Cardinals hanging out on the wall behind the bush. As you can see I don't protect him from freezing, don't trim him much unless a dead branch is in the way of my picking and don't baby him. The flavor from this fruit is unbelievably delicious with a thrilling burn that is nothing like the imported chiltepin from Chihuahua. I collect about 1 or 2 oz of chiltepin and they last me most of the year. Looking at the size of him now I should double that quantity this year. At this time there is not one single blossom even beginning to bud. Here is the link to my ugly bush... It's about 108 degrees in the shade... just the way he likes it. I'm not sure what sex he is but his name is George. http://www.desktoptrouble.com/chiltepin.jpg |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > Omelet wrote: > > In article >, > > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > > You can see the dead growth in the background. I was afraid to trim it > > off because with these bushes, sometimes it's hard to tell and new > > growth will spring out from what looks like dead branches. > > > > This bush is several years old now and produces hundreds of fruits per > > year about the size of my pinky fingernail. :-) The Cocaktoo is the > > lucky recipient of many of them. Good source of C which birds need. > > Nice looking bush... you must be in a cooler climate to have fruit this > early in the season. The Sonoran monsoon rains are rumbling in the > distance as I type and we should have showers every night for the next > few weeks. My bush will transform to twice it's size and blossom around > September and the small fruit will be ready by Nov-Dec. Central Texas. I will wait until they turn red tho'. I generally get ripe fruit late summer/early fall for about 4 to 6 weeks. > > This guy was only about 8 inches tall when I found him. I didn't think > he made the cross-town trip in the middle of the summer heat 3 years > ago. It looked like he was totally dead but put him in the same distance > from a north facing wall where I found him and he was alive and kicking > in a week. I've never fertilized him other than letting the pack-rats > nest under him and the occasional dead bird carcass from messy owls and > hawks. My soil is native desert so he seems to be happy. > > I know it's time to pick when I see Red Cardinals hanging out on the > wall behind the bush. As you can see I don't protect him from freezing, > don't trim him much unless a dead branch is in the way of my picking and > don't baby him. The flavor from this fruit is unbelievably delicious > with a thrilling burn that is nothing like the imported chiltepin from > Chihuahua. I collect about 1 or 2 oz of chiltepin and they last me most > of the year. Looking at the size of him now I should double that > quantity this year. At this time there is not one single blossom even > beginning to bud. > > Here is the link to my ugly bush... It's about 108 degrees in the > shade... just the way he likes it. I'm not sure what sex he is but his > name is George. > > http://www.desktoptrouble.com/chiltepin.jpg They are hermaphroditic. :-) He/she is a very nice plant! Just needs a bit more moisture it seems. I think mine looks this nice as we've been getting tons of rain, and I amended the soil around it last year with shovelings from what used to be an emu pen. I never neglect my bush. <eg> -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
On Jul 13, 12:13 pm, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > > > Omelet wrote: > > > In article >, > > > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > > You can see the dead growth in the background. I was afraid to trim it > > > off because with these bushes, sometimes it's hard to tell and new > > > growth will spring out from what looks like dead branches. > > > > This bush is several years old now and produces hundreds of fruits per > > > year about the size of my pinky fingernail. :-) The Cocaktoo is the > > > lucky recipient of many of them. Good source of C which birds need. > > > Nice looking bush... you must be in a cooler climate to have fruit this > > early in the season. The Sonoran monsoon rains are rumbling in the > > distance as I type and we should have showers every night for the next > > few weeks. My bush will transform to twice it's size and blossom around > > September and the small fruit will be ready by Nov-Dec. > > Central Texas. > > I will wait until they turn red tho'. I generally get ripe fruit late > summer/early fall for about 4 to 6 weeks. > > > > > > > This guy was only about 8 inches tall when I found him. I didn't think > > he made the cross-town trip in the middle of the summer heat 3 years > > ago. It looked like he was totally dead but put him in the same distance > > from a north facing wall where I found him and he was alive and kicking > > in a week. I've never fertilized him other than letting the pack-rats > > nest under him and the occasional dead bird carcass from messy owls and > > hawks. My soil is native desert so he seems to be happy. > > > I know it's time to pick when I see Red Cardinals hanging out on the > > wall behind the bush. As you can see I don't protect him from freezing, > > don't trim him much unless a dead branch is in the way of my picking and > > don't baby him. The flavor from this fruit is unbelievably delicious > > with a thrilling burn that is nothing like the imported chiltepin from > > Chihuahua. I collect about 1 or 2 oz of chiltepin and they last me most > > of the year. Looking at the size of him now I should double that > > quantity this year. At this time there is not one single blossom even > > beginning to bud. > > > Here is the link to my ugly bush... It's about 108 degrees in the > > shade... just the way he likes it. I'm not sure what sex he is but his > > name is George. > > >http://www.desktoptrouble.com/chiltepin.jpg > > They are hermaphroditic. :-) > He/she is a very nice plant! Just needs a bit more moisture it seems. > > I think mine looks this nice as we've been getting tons of rain, and I > amended the soil around it last year with shovelings from what used to > be an emu pen. > > I never neglect my bush. This is my favorite variety: http://petterssononline.com/habanero...=variety&id=14 > > <eg> > -- > Peace, Om --Bryan |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article . com>,
Bobo Bonobo(R) > wrote: > This is my favorite variety: > http://petterssononline.com/habanero...=variety&id=14 > > > > <eg> > > -- > > Peace, Om > > --Bryan I have no idea what variety I have. :-) They grow wild in this part of Texas, and this one was a volunteer. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Omelet wrote:
> In article >, > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > They are hermaphroditic. :-) > He/she is a very nice plant! Just needs a bit more moisture it seems. > > I think mine looks this nice as we've been getting tons of rain, and I > amended the soil around it last year with shovelings from what used to > be an emu pen. > > I never neglect my bush. > > <eg> Trimmed and pampered bushes are over rated. I like mine natural just as God created them. Our rains are coming... and this old guy will spring to life. Reply to me directly and I'll send you my snail address to send me some sample fruit from your pampered bush this fall and in November I'll send you some of the wild Sonoran variety and we can compare the flavors. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
notbob wrote:
> On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > >> was in her own backyard. > > Your cat owns a backyard? Does it pay taxes? Has it been posted no > trespassing to songbirds? Does the environment and related ecosystems > recognize her ownership rights? I know if people kill certain bird > species, they can be charged. Why not cats? If cats kill birds, can > people kill cats? Just some thoughts I have. > > nb My daughter has two cats and they spend much of their time attacking birds through the glass windows of our home. I agree with you that cat owners should be responsible to keep their cats indoors so not to interfere with wildlife. Cats in our neighborhood don't last long because of native wild cats, coyotes, owls and hawks. I can remember only one outdoor cat in our neighborhood who was completely black, a natural camouflage but he finally succumbed to a passing motorist. Keep em sterile and keep em indoors. |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > Omelet wrote: > > In article >, > > Sonoran Dude > wrote: > > > > > They are hermaphroditic. :-) > > He/she is a very nice plant! Just needs a bit more moisture it seems. > > > > I think mine looks this nice as we've been getting tons of rain, and I > > amended the soil around it last year with shovelings from what used to > > be an emu pen. > > > > I never neglect my bush. > > > > <eg> > > Trimmed and pampered bushes are over rated. I like mine natural just as > God created them. Our rains are coming... and this old guy will spring > to life. Reply to me directly and I'll send you my snail address to send > me some sample fruit from your pampered bush this fall and in November > I'll send you some of the wild Sonoran variety and we can compare the > flavors. Ok. :-) I'll send you some fruit when it ripens. I'd not call my bush pampered per se', it's growing in the main garden bed so just gets the benefits of caring for things like tomato plants. I've not trimmed it for many years. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
In article >,
Sonoran Dude > wrote: > notbob wrote: > > On 2007-07-12, Rechazador de Disparates > wrote: > > > >> was in her own backyard. > > > > Your cat owns a backyard? Does it pay taxes? Has it been posted no > > trespassing to songbirds? Does the environment and related ecosystems > > recognize her ownership rights? I know if people kill certain bird > > species, they can be charged. Why not cats? If cats kill birds, can > > people kill cats? Just some thoughts I have. > > > > nb > > My daughter has two cats and they spend much of their time attacking > birds through the glass windows of our home. I agree with you that cat > owners should be responsible to keep their cats indoors so not to > interfere with wildlife. Cats in our neighborhood don't last long > because of native wild cats, coyotes, owls and hawks. I can remember > only one outdoor cat in our neighborhood who was completely black, a > natural camouflage but he finally succumbed to a passing motorist. > > Keep em sterile and keep em indoors. Seconded. -- Peace, Om Remove _ to validate e-mails. "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch" -- Jack Nicholson |
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1,500 year old Chiles..
Rechazador de Disparates wrote:
> they try to escape from human company. > > That's why they have to be kept in cages. Human-bird relationships are > unnatural. What is unnatural about making friends with a bird? Don't humans make friends through routine acts of kindness? Even the wildest birds will eventually get used to you if you feed them on a regular basis. I routinely get young litters of quail in the backyard. I like to throw out my chopping scraps out for the chix in the morning and watch them tackle my tall grass. I know its dinner bell mentality but mom and dad will scratch around my feet with no problem after a few days of routine. Chickens make great pets and wish I could have one where I live. Parrots can die after loosing contact with an owner. I like all animals but beef is my favorite. |
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