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Default Why does the Galloping Goose hate tacos?

He tells us he wants a decent Mexican meal cooked to the highest USDA
standards in a brick and mortar restaurant under full Sanitation control

OK, go for it.

My note has more to do with his disparaging remarks about tacos and
traditional antojitos that made Mexican food so popular, not only in the US,
but in the world.

A three taco plate with a dab of rice and beans in Tokyo goes for $18.00 US.
There must be a reason.

A bit of history, not to be argumentative, but to reflect on what I saw as
the history of Mexican food becoming so popular in the US... and the world
later on. Just as Tequila today is being sold at a higher price than
designer cognacs and brandies... not to mention the onslaught of Mexican
beer!

I was born in Utah, taken to Mexico when my mother remarried a Mexican
pilot. Ricardo, my step-dad, paid me twenty centavos (worth a great
chocolate candy bar in those days) to eat a Serrano chile seeing as how I
was so reluctant to consume chiles in any way shape or form. I eventually
came to love them, but made ugly faces in order to keep getting the bribe.
(Which did not last long as Ricardo caught on pretty quick that I was
lying).

That was my introduction to the delights of Mexican cooking and it has never
stopped. So... when I came back to the US to continue my studies at Denver
University, pre-med. to go into veterinary medicine to eventually return to
our hacienda in Veracruz and assume the role of Don Wayne... I looked all
over Denver for a Mexican restaurant.

Only flour tortilla burritos with salsa verde down on Larimer St, like
Holstead St. in Chicago.

If I wanted a corn tortilla taco, I had to buy canned tortillas by mail from
the El Paso Taco Factory.

Then one day I saw Fritos in a potato chip look-alike bag in a store and
bought one! Now. what? There were no salsas, no chile Serrano, no cilantro,
no jalapenos, no tomatillos.... so improvise with what we had. Tomatoes,
onions Tabasco sauce, and an occasional avocado. Occasional, because in most
of the US they were still unknown. It wasn't until superbowl that the
avocado got it's start.

Then one day I sat down at a burrito place in a bowling alley on Colfax,
down there by Gates Rubber, across from the veterinary clinic I worked as
kennel boy... and they put a cooked green chile verde with chunks of pork
and I had found my paradise in Denver.

Like millions others, I grew to love American/Mexican food because there
simply was no alternative in those before 1954 days in my part of the world.

How things have changed! And I love a street taco, gordita, elote, piscado,
chalupa and whatever else they can make. I know from experience that you
only buy from the stands with waiting lines and never, never, never from a
stand with no customers. Why? Because the word spreads when somebody gets
sick, faster than any government agency could even write the infraction,
least of all close the place due to the legal process.

Give me a roach coach or corner taco stand any day! I'm 71 and never sick a
single day for eating at the thousands of such places over my lifetime.

Wayne


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Default Why does the Galloping Goose hate tacos?

Oops! sorry.... meant Galloping Gourmand!...

"Wayne Lundberg" > wrote in message
...
> He tells us he wants a decent Mexican meal cooked to the highest USDA
> standards in a brick and mortar restaurant under full Sanitation control
>
> OK, go for it.
>
> My note has more to do with his disparaging remarks about tacos and
> traditional antojitos that made Mexican food so popular, not only in the

US,
> but in the world.
>
> A three taco plate with a dab of rice and beans in Tokyo goes for $18.00

US.
> There must be a reason.
>
> A bit of history, not to be argumentative, but to reflect on what I saw as
> the history of Mexican food becoming so popular in the US... and the world
> later on. Just as Tequila today is being sold at a higher price than
> designer cognacs and brandies... not to mention the onslaught of Mexican
> beer!
>
> I was born in Utah, taken to Mexico when my mother remarried a Mexican
> pilot. Ricardo, my step-dad, paid me twenty centavos (worth a great
> chocolate candy bar in those days) to eat a Serrano chile seeing as how I
> was so reluctant to consume chiles in any way shape or form. I eventually
> came to love them, but made ugly faces in order to keep getting the bribe.
> (Which did not last long as Ricardo caught on pretty quick that I was
> lying).
>
> That was my introduction to the delights of Mexican cooking and it has

never
> stopped. So... when I came back to the US to continue my studies at Denver
> University, pre-med. to go into veterinary medicine to eventually return

to
> our hacienda in Veracruz and assume the role of Don Wayne... I looked all
> over Denver for a Mexican restaurant.
>
> Only flour tortilla burritos with salsa verde down on Larimer St, like
> Holstead St. in Chicago.
>
> If I wanted a corn tortilla taco, I had to buy canned tortillas by mail

from
> the El Paso Taco Factory.
>
> Then one day I saw Fritos in a potato chip look-alike bag in a store and
> bought one! Now. what? There were no salsas, no chile Serrano, no

cilantro,
> no jalapenos, no tomatillos.... so improvise with what we had. Tomatoes,
> onions Tabasco sauce, and an occasional avocado. Occasional, because in

most
> of the US they were still unknown. It wasn't until superbowl that the
> avocado got it's start.
>
> Then one day I sat down at a burrito place in a bowling alley on Colfax,
> down there by Gates Rubber, across from the veterinary clinic I worked as
> kennel boy... and they put a cooked green chile verde with chunks of pork
> and I had found my paradise in Denver.
>
> Like millions others, I grew to love American/Mexican food because there
> simply was no alternative in those before 1954 days in my part of the

world.
>
> How things have changed! And I love a street taco, gordita, elote,

piscado,
> chalupa and whatever else they can make. I know from experience that you
> only buy from the stands with waiting lines and never, never, never from a
> stand with no customers. Why? Because the word spreads when somebody gets
> sick, faster than any government agency could even write the infraction,
> least of all close the place due to the legal process.
>
> Give me a roach coach or corner taco stand any day! I'm 71 and never sick

a
> single day for eating at the thousands of such places over my lifetime.
>
> Wayne
>
>



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Default Why does the Galloping Goose hate tacos?

Good ole DU! Some of the best years of my life were spent at the U of
Denver. I was there in the 50s. When were you there?

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"Rolly Brook" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Good ole DU! Some of the best years of my life were spent at the U of
> Denver. I was there in the 50s. When were you there?
>

Got there in 1952, worked my way through until seduced by the thought of
adventure in the US Navy in 1954. Did my four, got the GI Bill, continued my
ed at Colorado State in Ft. Collins where we had started a pheasant farm
after losing our Mexico ranch.

Pledged Lambda Chi, was on the ROTC Pershing Rifles precision drill team.
tried to seduce every girl I saw, my first car was a 1939 Plymouth Coupe
with rumble seat. Loved that car!


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Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> Pledged Lambda Chi


Brother Wayne,
I knew there was a reason I liked you... Epsilon Iota chapter University
of Nevada in Reno.

Yours in ZAX and tacos,
Dude


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I think tacos remind him of his mother who he probably still lives with.
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"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> I think tacos remind him of his mother who he probably still lives with.


Ouch!


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"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> > Pledged Lambda Chi

>
> Brother Wayne,
> I knew there was a reason I liked you... Epsilon Iota chapter University
> of Nevada in Reno.
>
> Yours in ZAX and tacos,
> Dude


Wayne he
ZAX as in Zacatecas? As in Zax Tavern in Oakland? ZAX the Alien Hunter? or
ZAX in Berkely?

Thanks!

Wayne




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On Mar 5, 1:35?pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
wrote:
> He tells us he wants a decent Mexican meal cooked to the highest USDA
> standards in a brick and mortar restaurant under full Sanitation control


I want that, and more. I want to find Mexican restaurants that
specialize in all the regional dishes of the various areas, not just
glorified generic theme taco stands with wall menus and faux adobe
booths and cacti painted on the walls, decorated with charro apparel
and serapes.

This site lists many, many dishes that I cannot find recipes for,
anwhere on the web.

http://www.csgastronomia.edu.mx/prof.../menpatmex.htm

Why can't I find recipes for platillos tipicos of various Mexican
states? Maybe it's because Mexicans don't know their traditional
cuisine. Or maybe it's because they don't have a computer and can't
get online to tell us about their grandmother's cooking.

> My note has more to do with his disparaging remarks about tacos and
> traditional antojitos that made Mexican food so popular, not only in the US,
> but in the world.


It has been long known that most of what Americans are eating is
Sonoran-style cooking, but I would bet that Sonoran Dude doesn't know
how to prepare these Sonoran specialties:

tamales de pitahaya, o yumare,
guaca-yaqu? o puchero,
guacapoponi o macha,
tamales de elote
gallina pinta (caldo de carne con nixtamal y frijol),
Gallina pinta (cocido de ma?z, fr?jol y carne de res),
Menudo sonorense (ma?z, panza, pata de res, chile verde, cebolla,
or?gano, cilantro),
Caldo de queso (papas rebanadas con queso, tomate y cebolla),
Tamales de garbanzo,
Vitualla de garbanzos,
Colache de calabacitas,
Bichicoris u orejones de calabaza,
Coyotas,
Callo de hacha,
Burritos de machaca,
Caldillo de machaca (huevos ahogados),
Empanadas de ostiones estilo Guaymas (osti?n y mantequilla),
Camarones rellenos (tocino, jam?n, mostaza, naranja),
T?pari con aldilla (frijoles blancos con falda de res), Huacabaque
yaqui (falda de res, cacahuazintle, fr?jol, jitomate, chile ancho),
Frijoles maneados (fr?jol, queso chihuahua, poblano, manteca), Cusir?
yaqui (postre de calabaza, piloncillo, naranja, canela, harina,
leche),
Coyotas del pueblo (postres de harina, levadura, piloncillo,
manteca),
Bacanora (bebida de maguey mezcalero),
zotol (bebida de maguey).

But how could Sonoran Dude help? He doesn't do recipes, yannow...




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"The Galloping Gourmand" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 5, 1:35?pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> wrote:
> > He tells us he wants a decent Mexican meal cooked to the highest USDA
> > standards in a brick and mortar restaurant under full Sanitation control

>
> I want that, and more. I want to find Mexican restaurants that
> specialize in all the regional dishes of the various areas, not just
> glorified generic theme taco stands with wall menus and faux adobe
> booths and cacti painted on the walls, decorated with charro apparel
> and serapes.
>
> This site lists many, many dishes that I cannot find recipes for,
> anwhere on the web.
>
>

http://www.csgastronomia.edu.mx/prof.../menpatmex.htm
>
> Why can't I find recipes for platillos tipicos of various Mexican
> states? Maybe it's because Mexicans don't know their traditional
> cuisine. Or maybe it's because they don't have a computer and can't
> get online to tell us about their grandmother's cooking.
>
> > My note has more to do with his disparaging remarks about tacos and
> > traditional antojitos that made Mexican food so popular, not only in the

US,
> > but in the world.

>
> It has been long known that most of what Americans are eating is
> Sonoran-style cooking, but I would bet that Sonoran Dude doesn't know
> how to prepare these Sonoran specialties:
>
> tamales de pitahaya, o yumare,
> guaca-yaqu? o puchero,
> guacapoponi o macha,
> tamales de elote
> gallina pinta (caldo de carne con nixtamal y frijol),
> Gallina pinta (cocido de ma?z, fr?jol y carne de res),
> Menudo sonorense (ma?z, panza, pata de res, chile verde, cebolla,
> or?gano, cilantro),
> Caldo de queso (papas rebanadas con queso, tomate y cebolla),
> Tamales de garbanzo,
> Vitualla de garbanzos,
> Colache de calabacitas,
> Bichicoris u orejones de calabaza,
> Coyotas,
> Callo de hacha,
> Burritos de machaca,
> Caldillo de machaca (huevos ahogados),
> Empanadas de ostiones estilo Guaymas (osti?n y mantequilla),
> Camarones rellenos (tocino, jam?n, mostaza, naranja),
> T?pari con aldilla (frijoles blancos con falda de res), Huacabaque
> yaqui (falda de res, cacahuazintle, fr?jol, jitomate, chile ancho),
> Frijoles maneados (fr?jol, queso chihuahua, poblano, manteca), Cusir?
> yaqui (postre de calabaza, piloncillo, naranja, canela, harina,
> leche),
> Coyotas del pueblo (postres de harina, levadura, piloncillo,
> manteca),
> Bacanora (bebida de maguey mezcalero),
> zotol (bebida de maguey).
>
> But how could Sonoran Dude help? He doesn't do recipes, yannow...
>

Wayne he

Leaving all previous postings as a reminder of what this might be all about.

Galloping's list of typical Mexican fare is not too shabby. I'll confess to
being intimately familiar with maybe half of them. But Mexican food has been
evolving in the US in direct proportion to the ingredients to be found in
your local Safeway.

I can back this up.

I started looking for Mexican food in the US when I came to Denver in
pursuit of my future as the Don on the ranch in Mexico. I could only find
corn tortillas by mail order from El Paso Tortillas in cans. Everything else
in Colorado that had anything to do with Mexican food was non-existent. No
corn tortillas, no chiles Serranos, no Poblanos... the burrito was an
attempt by Brazeros to concoct anything resembling their home cooking.

As time went by, slowly, a few things started to change. Disney's movies on
Mexico and tourist trade made possible by the new DC-3s and eventually the
727 gave millions of happy travelers a taste of Mexican beer, Tequila,
tacos, enchiladas and the like. Sanborns became a well known place for
tourists to learn about Mexican dishes and even invented some to be more
palatable to the American taste buds.

When I got out of the Navy in 1958 I moved into the ranch we had bought
after losing our Veracruz hacienda. I heard of a little hole-in-the-wall
Mexican restaurant on the other side of the tracks - where the Mexican
brazeros had set up camp and a few homes. I had discovered the burrito in
Denver, but this burrito in Ft. Collins was something else, It featured true
guisado verde, rice and beans. Still no corn tortillas, but getting close.

My mother started teaching Mexican cooking as part of the Larimer County
Continuing Education program and arm-wrestled the local Safeway store
manager into setting aside a square yard in their produce department to sell
chile poblano, cilantro, chile serrano, tomatillos, calabazitas and anything
seasonal for her cooking class.

This is pretty much what has been happening. As more and more product is
being introduced from Mexico more and more people are experimenting with
them and developing very unique and innovative dishes resembling in one form
or other what the chef experienced on one of their trips to Mexico.

Few of the dishes Galloping has listed could be duplicated from ingredients
to be found in US supermarkets. Just one example would be an elote tamale.
These are very common everywhere in Mexico yet nearly impossible to
duplicate in the US. US corn is yellow, and fit for animal consumption
according to Mexican taste. White corn on the cob is not to be found in the
US and it is white corn on the cob that makes a delightful Yucatan tamal de
elote, or Veracruz, or Puebla or anywhere else. This is just one example of
hundreds.

Where can you buy the kind of chocolate we use in Mexico for mole? Anything
in the US is Hershey sweet or bitter.

So... until we are able to get the ingredients to more of Galloping's dream
meal, we are stuck with the taco folder and his plastic gloves.

Wayne




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On Mar 6, 1:51 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
wrote:

> So... until we are able to get the ingredients to more of Galloping's dream
> meal, we are stuck with the taco folder and his plastic gloves.
>
> Wayne


Have you tried buying from the web or growing such things as white
corn?

David

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Here's a traditional tamal de elote recipe in Spanish, kind of in proof of
what I just wrote. Note they don't say yellow or white, but they do say
'tierno' which is tender, which is equivalent to white corn in the language.
http://mexico.udg.mx/cocina/antojos/TamElote.html

PS - this udg site is great! Try it in the English version too.


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"dtwright37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 6, 1:51 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> wrote:
>
> > So... until we are able to get the ingredients to more of Galloping's

dream
> > meal, we are stuck with the taco folder and his plastic gloves.
> >
> > Wayne

>
> Have you tried buying from the web or growing such things as white
> corn?
>
> David
>

I'm lucky. I'm fifteen minutes from a typical popular market in Tijuana
where I can find everything I would ever need. It's one of our favorite
stops when entertaining any of our friends or family when they come to
visit. A delightful experience!

And their antojitos sold at every 10 yards are the best in the world!

Wayne


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Default Attn: Wayne Why does the Galloping Goose hate tacos?

On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:16:08 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
> wrote:

>
>"dtwright37" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 1:51 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > So... until we are able to get the ingredients to more of Galloping's

>dream
>> > meal, we are stuck with the taco folder and his plastic gloves.
>> >
>> > Wayne

>>
>> Have you tried buying from the web or growing such things as white
>> corn?
>>
>> David
>>

>I'm lucky. I'm fifteen minutes from a typical popular market in Tijuana
>where I can find everything I would ever need. It's one of our favorite
>stops when entertaining any of our friends or family when they come to
>visit. A delightful experience!
>
>And their antojitos sold at every 10 yards are the best in the world!
>
>Wayne
>

Wayne: Sorry to budge in, but am new to this group. I was wondering
since you mention living near a market in Tijuana, if you could
identify and possibly list the ingredients to a bread product that I
used to eat when my father was stationed at Coronado in the early
60's.

We would go to Tijuana every so often and I vaguely remember (being
only 5 or 6 yrs old) getting this hard tack bread in a brown paper
shopping bag that was reddish/orange and garlicky. I could eat that
stuff forever. Any pointers? Thanks and have a great day.

Intrepid
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On Mar 6, 2:16 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
wrote:

> I'm lucky. I'm fifteen minutes from a typical popular market in Tijuana
> where I can find everything I would ever need. It's one of our favorite
> stops when entertaining any of our friends or family when they come to
> visit. A delightful experience!
>
> And their antojitos sold at every 10 yards are the best in the world!
>
> Wayne


When I was a grad student at UC Riverside way-back-when, my fondest
wish was that there would be a job waiting for me at a school in San
Diego, so I could do just what you get to do.

Didn't happen. <sigh>

David




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"Intrepid" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:16:08 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"dtwright37" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >> On Mar 6, 1:51 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > So... until we are able to get the ingredients to more of Galloping's

> >dream
> >> > meal, we are stuck with the taco folder and his plastic gloves.
> >> >
> >> > Wayne
> >>
> >> Have you tried buying from the web or growing such things as white
> >> corn?
> >>
> >> David
> >>

> >I'm lucky. I'm fifteen minutes from a typical popular market in Tijuana
> >where I can find everything I would ever need. It's one of our favorite
> >stops when entertaining any of our friends or family when they come to
> >visit. A delightful experience!
> >
> >And their antojitos sold at every 10 yards are the best in the world!
> >
> >Wayne
> >

> Wayne: Sorry to budge in, but am new to this group. I was wondering
> since you mention living near a market in Tijuana, if you could
> identify and possibly list the ingredients to a bread product that I
> used to eat when my father was stationed at Coronado in the early
> 60's.
>
> We would go to Tijuana every so often and I vaguely remember (being
> only 5 or 6 yrs old) getting this hard tack bread in a brown paper
> shopping bag that was reddish/orange and garlicky. I could eat that
> stuff forever. Any pointers? Thanks and have a great day.
>
> Intrepid


Thanks for your note. Are you sure it's bread and not a candy? There is one
hard bread that may be something like what you remember. They are called
orejas, (Ears), and look like a heart-shape valentine. Say 3/8" thick, spans
a hand, usually break in half and dip in chocolate or milk... I don't
remember the garlic flavor in any Mexican bread or candy. Tell me more.


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"dtwright37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 6, 2:16 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> wrote:
>
> > I'm lucky. I'm fifteen minutes from a typical popular market in Tijuana
> > where I can find everything I would ever need. It's one of our favorite
> > stops when entertaining any of our friends or family when they come to
> > visit. A delightful experience!
> >
> > And their antojitos sold at every 10 yards are the best in the world!
> >
> > Wayne

>
> When I was a grad student at UC Riverside way-back-when, my fondest
> wish was that there would be a job waiting for me at a school in San
> Diego, so I could do just what you get to do.
>
> Didn't happen. <sigh>
>
> David
>

Please give me a jingle anytime you are in this neighborhood and we can do
the market scene. If time allows and the gals permit, we can even get to
Ensenada to visit the black market which in reality is just a great fish
market. Along the way... Puerto Nuevo for lobster.

Wayne


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On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:12:35 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
> wrote:

>
>"Intrepid" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:16:08 GMT, "Wayne Lundberg"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"dtwright37" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >> On Mar 6, 1:51 pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
>> >

>> Wayne: Sorry to budge in, but am new to this group. I was wondering
>> since you mention living near a market in Tijuana, if you could
>> identify and possibly list the ingredients to a bread product that I
>> used to eat when my father was stationed at Coronado in the early
>> 60's.
>>
>> We would go to Tijuana every so often and I vaguely remember (being
>> only 5 or 6 yrs old) getting this hard tack bread in a brown paper
>> shopping bag that was reddish/orange and garlicky. I could eat that
>> stuff forever. Any pointers? Thanks and have a great day.
>>
>> Intrepid

>
>Thanks for your note. Are you sure it's bread and not a candy? There is one
>hard bread that may be something like what you remember. They are called
>orejas, (Ears), and look like a heart-shape valentine. Say 3/8" thick, spans
>a hand, usually break in half and dip in chocolate or milk... I don't
>remember the garlic flavor in any Mexican bread or candy. Tell me more.
>

Thanks for the reply. Considering my age and the time span, I'll try
and do my best. Recollection is brown paper bag with grease spots on
the outside. The "garlic bread" ... it was definately bread and hard,
seemed almost "toasted". Nothing really smeared on like some garlic
breads you find, just the red/orange color. I'd sit down and just chew
it alone. Maybe you were suppose to dip it and nobody ever taught me
that. My best friend's sister is married to a Mexican and he
remembers it also from his youth, but doesn't recall it entirely.
Maybe it was one of those "fad" things that come and go? That was a
good time back then ...

Intrepid
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On Mar 6, 3:19 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
wrote:
> On Mar 5, 1:35?pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> wrote:
>
> > He tells us he wants a decent Mexican meal cooked to the highest USDA
> > standards in a brick and mortar restaurant under full Sanitation control

>
> I want that, and more. I want to find Mexican restaurants that
> specialize in all the regional dishes of the various areas, not just
> glorified generic theme taco stands with wall menus and faux adobe
> booths and cacti painted on the walls, decorated with charro apparel
> and serapes.
>
> This site lists many, many dishes that I cannot find recipes for,
> anwhere on the web.
>
> http://www.csgastronomia.edu.mx/prof...rmex/MATERIAL/...
>
> Why can't I find recipes for platillos tipicos of various Mexican
> states? Maybe it's because Mexicans don't know their traditional
> cuisine. Or maybe it's because they don't have a computer and can't
> get online to tell us about their grandmother's cooking.



LOL. Why don't you gallop over to Mexico, dude. Lots of books on
regional cuisines. There are several series devoted to the cuisines
of all the states or of regions/ethnicities within the states.

Books, my friend; the internet is overrated.

Peter

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On Mar 19, 1:27 am, "PeterDy" > wrote:
[...]
> Books, my friend; the internet is overrated.
>



Well, except that you can actually ORDER books through the internet!

Cocina Familiar en el Estado de Tabasco

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...06515025&itm=1

Cocina Familiar en el Estado de Sonora

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo...6514981&itm=12

Peter



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On Mar 18, 10:10?pm, "PeterDy" > wrote:
> On Mar 19, 1:27 am, "PeterDy" > wrote:
> [...]
>
> > Books, my friend; the internet is overrated.


Cook books are great, I learned more from a few cookbooks in one week
than I learned from
this group in a year. Then when I posted recipes I translated from a
Spanish language newspaper,
I was accused of plagiarism. It seems that the newspapers get their
recipes from the same
cookbooks and from the internet.

If people don't want their recipes to be disseminated widely, they
should never post them on their
website. If authors don't want their work copied, they should never
submit it for publishing.

The whole idea of the internet is to share information about whatever
the subject of
interest may be.

But this group's interest seems to be tacos and how excited they get
when a
new taco wagon arrives in the parking lot, or whether enchiladas
should be rolled, folded or flat, or
the endless debate about whether there should be beans or cumen in
chile.
>
> Well, except that you can actually ORDER books through the internet!
>
> Cocina Familiar en el Estado de Tabasco
>
> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/boo....asp?z=y&EAN=9...


Thanks. Unfortunately B&N doesn't have either a new or used copy.
>
> Cocina Familiar en el Estado de Sonora


Sonoran style cooking is the poverty cooking of Mexico. It's what Tex-
Mex and Taco Bell are all
about. No point in buying a book about Sonora style cooking, it's in
every taco wago and taco truck.

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On Mar 19, 12:00 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand"
> wrote:

> Cook books are great, I learned more from a few cookbooks in one week
> than I learned from
> this group in a year.


You've been here a year?

>Then when I posted recipes I translated from a
> Spanish language newspaper,
> I was accused of plagiarism. It seems that the newspapers get their
> recipes from the same
> cookbooks and from the internet.


All anyone asked was that you post your sources. I'm sorry that it's a
problem for you to do that simple thing.

> But this group's interest seems to be tacos and how excited they get
> when a
> new taco wagon arrives in the parking lot, or whether enchiladas
> should be rolled, folded or flat, or
> the endless debate about whether there should be beans or cumen [sic] in
> chile.


Or chili. And on this group we celebrate what we want to celebrate.
Who is to decide otherwise? The arrival of the taco truck is a sign
of spring for someone who lives in the frozen north. I'm sorry you
don't recognize that.

> Sonoran style cooking is the poverty cooking of Mexico. It's what Tex-
> Mex and Taco Bell are all
> about. No point in buying a book about Sonora style cooking, it's in
> every taco wago [sic] and taco truck.


Some of my best memories of Mexico come from when I lived in Arizona
in the early '60s and spent a lot of time doing biological field work
in Sonora. Nice people, tasty food, both inland and on the coast. I
was very comfortable there, and I'm sorry you don't have similar
memories.

Also, I'm curious why you stick around in a newsgroup in which, to me,
you seem frustrated with the way others of us post.

David


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"dtwright37" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Mar 19, 12:00 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand"
> > wrote:
>
> > Cook books are great, I learned more from a few cookbooks in one week
> > than I learned from
> > this group in a year.

>
> You've been here a year?
>
> >Then when I posted recipes I translated from a
> > Spanish language newspaper,
> > I was accused of plagiarism. It seems that the newspapers get their
> > recipes from the same
> > cookbooks and from the internet.

>
> All anyone asked was that you post your sources. I'm sorry that it's a
> problem for you to do that simple thing.
>
> > But this group's interest seems to be tacos and how excited they get
> > when a
> > new taco wagon arrives in the parking lot, or whether enchiladas
> > should be rolled, folded or flat, or
> > the endless debate about whether there should be beans or cumen [sic] in
> > chile.

>
> Or chili. And on this group we celebrate what we want to celebrate.
> Who is to decide otherwise? The arrival of the taco truck is a sign
> of spring for someone who lives in the frozen north. I'm sorry you
> don't recognize that.
>
> > Sonoran style cooking is the poverty cooking of Mexico. It's what Tex-
> > Mex and Taco Bell are all
> > about. No point in buying a book about Sonora style cooking, it's in
> > every taco wago [sic] and taco truck.

>
> Some of my best memories of Mexico come from when I lived in Arizona
> in the early '60s and spent a lot of time doing biological field work
> in Sonora. Nice people, tasty food, both inland and on the coast. I
> was very comfortable there, and I'm sorry you don't have similar
> memories.
>
> Also, I'm curious why you stick around in a newsgroup in which, to me,
> you seem frustrated with the way others of us post.
>
> David
>
>

Galloping has been the subject of a case study I am doing on newsgroup and
forum personalities. He/she has me baffled in that there is no consistency.
I believe it (he/she) must be a couple of lonely people locked in an igloo
with Mexican food on their mind, but nowhere to get it. And he/she/they have
not figured out how to get it vicariously through those of us publishing
regular tidbits in this forum. Even when I respond to his/her posts with
decorum and courtesy, their reply is usually dripping in acid.

Pity.


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On Mar 19, 5:36?pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
wrote:

> Galloping has been the subject of a case study I am doing on newsgroup and
> forum personalities.


Don't waste your time, newsgroup personalities have been analyzed
before and
stereotypical archtypes have been invented to explain behaviors. But
the studies
always seem to ignore the newsgroup bullies who try to dominate a
group, turning
every thread into a discourse about themselves and the sychophants
they tolerate.

One PhD thesis study was about why newcomers only post one or two
messages to
a group. They get flamed with hostile responses, or worse, they get no
response at
all and give up posting to Usenet after several orphan messages that
are ignored.

To get any response whatever, the newcomer has to step on some toes
and risk being
flamed. Anybody wants to flame me, go right ahead, I've been flamed by
the worst trolls
and they wound up abandoning "their" newsgroup when I didn't leave.

> He/she has me baffled in that there is no consistency.
> I believe it (he/she) must be a couple of lonely people locked in an igloo
> with Mexican food on their mind, but nowhere to get it. And he/she/they have
> not figured out how to get it vicariously through those of us publishing
> regular tidbits in this forum.


That is probably the silliest thing you've ever written.

I don't need to get Mexican food vicariously through reading your
"tidbits", Wayne.
I eat Mexican food every day.

There are two Mexicans in this county for every American, so I can get
all the Mexican
products I want in the markets. If I want goat or lamb or fresh range
chicken, all I have to do
is go down the street to my Mexican neighbor's houses.

I have bags of fresh frozen chiles in the freezer and all sorts of
ready made salsas and moles.
I can order all the Sonoran antojitos I want in the taquerias around
here. I don't need to make
my own tamales, I can get all the homemade tamales I want.

There's no point in asking the Mexicans around here about how food is
cooked in Tabasco.
They are Nortenos, they don't know anything except antojitos, rice,
beans, menudo and birria.

But I am looking for recipes and ideas for Mexican recipes that are
not antojitos and
are not Sonoran. I've been eating Sonoran style cooking and antojitos
for over half a century.
It's the same old stuff, over and over. I want a change. So I post
recipes and lists of specialities
from other Mexican regions.

What is so annoying about that?




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"The Galloping Gourmand" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 19, 5:36?pm, "Wayne Lundberg" >
> wrote:
>
> > Galloping has been the subject of a case study I am doing on newsgroup

and
> > forum personalities.

>
> Don't waste your time, newsgroup personalities have been analyzed
> before and
> stereotypical archtypes have been invented to explain behaviors. But
> the studies
> always seem to ignore the newsgroup bullies who try to dominate a
> group, turning
> every thread into a discourse about themselves and the sychophants
> they tolerate.
>
> One PhD thesis study was about why newcomers only post one or two
> messages to
> a group. They get flamed with hostile responses, or worse, they get no
> response at
> all and give up posting to Usenet after several orphan messages that
> are ignored.
>
> To get any response whatever, the newcomer has to step on some toes
> and risk being
> flamed. Anybody wants to flame me, go right ahead, I've been flamed by
> the worst trolls
> and they wound up abandoning "their" newsgroup when I didn't leave.
>
> > He/she has me baffled in that there is no consistency.
> > I believe it (he/she) must be a couple of lonely people locked in an

igloo
> > with Mexican food on their mind, but nowhere to get it. And he/she/they

have
> > not figured out how to get it vicariously through those of us publishing
> > regular tidbits in this forum.

>
> That is probably the silliest thing you've ever written.
>
> I don't need to get Mexican food vicariously through reading your
> "tidbits", Wayne.
> I eat Mexican food every day.
>
> There are two Mexicans in this county for every American, so I can get
> all the Mexican
> products I want in the markets. If I want goat or lamb or fresh range
> chicken, all I have to do
> is go down the street to my Mexican neighbor's houses.
>
> I have bags of fresh frozen chiles in the freezer and all sorts of
> ready made salsas and moles.
> I can order all the Sonoran antojitos I want in the taquerias around
> here. I don't need to make
> my own tamales, I can get all the homemade tamales I want.
>
> There's no point in asking the Mexicans around here about how food is
> cooked in Tabasco.
> They are Nortenos, they don't know anything except antojitos, rice,
> beans, menudo and birria.
>
> But I am looking for recipes and ideas for Mexican recipes that are
> not antojitos and
> are not Sonoran. I've been eating Sonoran style cooking and antojitos
> for over half a century.
> It's the same old stuff, over and over. I want a change. So I post
> recipes and lists of specialities
> from other Mexican regions.
>
> What is so annoying about that?
>

..
Not anoying, just staying on topic and continuing the thread.

Must dig through my old stuff to see what I can come up with from Veracruz.

Wayne
>





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On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
wrote:

> I eat Mexican food every day.


Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
read about?

David

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On Mar 20, 9:42 am, "Wayne Lundberg" >
wrote:

> Must dig through my old stuff to see what I can come up with from Veracruz.
>
> Wayne


I wish you would, Wayne. I enjoy Zarela Martinez's book about
Veracruz, but I'd also like to hear what you remember from your youth.

David

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On Mar 20, 10:25?am, "dtwright37" > wrote:
> On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
> wrote:
>
> > I eat Mexican food every day.

>
> Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
> read about?


I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is ignorant, he
cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
upon.

What then is left, beside ritual, habit, or impulsive noshing? Do you
really want to read about banal snacking? I don't.

We must know the many names of Mexican foods and spices and the
multiple names of the cooking processes, as well as which names of
processes are confused with the end result.

For instance, if I told you I had Tatemada marinating right now, how
would you know what I was making, unless you were familiar with both
the process and the possible ingredients?

And, if I told you that I had eaten and enjoyed the Tatemada
immensely, would you feel that you must immediately cook it yourself
so you could then post about your new found expertise?

Or, if I told you that I was just thinking about gathering the
ingredients and satisfied my immediate hunger with several tacos,
wouldn't you call me a hypocrite?

Dr. Zaius would understand the perversity of humans. Not to be
trusted, those humans.


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Wayne, There is no "Holsted St." in Chicago.
There is a a "Halsted St." though.

One evening I was eating at a mexican restaurant on Halsted St near
Maxwell St. in Chicago, and the drunken ******* cook of the restaurant
hit my new Jeep Cherokee. The had the freakin nerve to call the Cops on
Me while I was eating!

One of those little regrets in life, where I wished I would've parted
his head that night with a Louisville Slugger Hank Aaron Model. Mark

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On Mar 20, 6:01 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
wrote:
> On Mar 20, 10:25?am, "dtwright37" > wrote:
>
> > On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
> > wrote:

>
> > > I eat Mexican food every day.

>
> > Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
> > read about?

>
> I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is ignorant, he
> cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
> logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
> upon.


etc., etc., etc.

I think I'll take a break for a while. This group seems to be getting
stranger every day. (I'm not talking about Wayne, Rolly, and Gunner,
though.)

David



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"dtwright37" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 20, 6:01 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
> wrote:
>> On Mar 20, 10:25?am, "dtwright37" > wrote:
>>
>> > On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
>> > wrote:

>>
>> > > I eat Mexican food every day.

>>
>> > Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
>> > read about?

>>
>> I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is ignorant, he
>> cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
>> logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
>> upon.

>
> etc., etc., etc.
>
> I think I'll take a break for a while. This group seems to be getting
> stranger every day. (I'm not talking about Wayne, Rolly, and Gunner,
> though.)
>
> David
>



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"dtwright37" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Mar 20, 6:01 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
> wrote:
>> On Mar 20, 10:25?am, "dtwright37" > wrote:
>>
>> > On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
>> > wrote:

>>
>> > > I eat Mexican food every day.

>>
>> > Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
>> > read about?

>>
>> I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is ignorant, he
>> cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
>> logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
>> upon.

>
> etc., etc., etc.
>
> I think I'll take a break for a while. This group seems to be getting
> stranger every day. (I'm not talking about Wayne, Rolly, and Gunner,
> though.)
>
> David


I agree. Certainly not my Circle of Five. Anyway, I picked up Mann's book,
1491 and have a model shoot on Friday so I will leave this NG till next
week. This is getting to be more like Alice in Wonderland every day.
Someone definitely has their head up the Rabbit's hole.



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The Galloping Gourmand wrote:
> On Mar 20, 10:25?am, "dtwright37" > wrote:
>> On Mar 19, 9:42 pm, "The Galloping Gourmand" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I eat Mexican food every day.

>> Then how about writing about the food you eat rather than the food you
>> read about?

>
> I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is ignorant, he
> cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
> logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
> upon.
>
> What then is left, beside ritual, habit, or impulsive noshing? Do you
> really want to read about banal snacking? I don't.
>
> We must know the many names of Mexican foods and spices and the
> multiple names of the cooking processes, as well as which names of
> processes are confused with the end result.
>
> For instance, if I told you I had Tatemada marinating right now, how
> would you know what I was making, unless you were familiar with both
> the process and the possible ingredients?
>
> And, if I told you that I had eaten and enjoyed the Tatemada
> immensely, would you feel that you must immediately cook it yourself
> so you could then post about your new found expertise?
>
> Or, if I told you that I was just thinking about gathering the
> ingredients and satisfied my immediate hunger with several tacos,
> wouldn't you call me a hypocrite?
>
> Dr. Zaius would understand the perversity of humans. Not to be
> trusted, those humans.
>
>



I may be sorry for entering this conversation. It's been years since
I've posted to this newsgroup. But curiosity and confusion have got the
better of me.

SOMETHING about 'Mexican' food must have attracted you in the first
place, something sparked your interest or your taste buds. Everyone
starts somewhere and then goes as far as their desire. Did you start
with the basics of Sonoran and tasted other things that led you onward
or did you only hear or read of those other things? If you were
ignorant of other flavors, only imagining what they were, if they were
tasty or beyond what you have become bored with, than how can you claim
to be NOT ignorant if you haven't tasted them yourself. Just knowing
words about something doesn't make you less ignorant. I can learn the
lingo of plumbing, dancing or whatever but it doesn't mean I become less
ignorant, I'm just an educated, knowledgeable ignorant person. There is
no wisdom yet. What if someone comes to this newsgroup having been
interested, intrigued with the flavors of what they think is Mexican
food? Their interest is sparked, as was yours. Why not let know how to
improve the dishes they are interested in? They could grow and learn
about other flavors, trying to master those steps in stages, little
steps to better foods, better eating, great flavors for them to
discover. Just insulting their tastes and likes and throwing out new
words at them doesn't educate, doesn't lead them to better things. It
isn't what makes a good student a good learner, a disciple of fine foods.

As to your words "I keep telling you, over and over. Whereof a man is
ignorant, he
> cannot speak. Whereof a man cannot speak, he cannot consider
> logically. That which cannot be considered logically cannot be decided
> upon."


When you first taste something you are less ignorant than before you
placed it in your mouth. All the descriptions you read or heard about
didn't do much to teach you anything, ...only,... possibly, spark an
interest. If I taste and savor something fabulous, I could just watch
what someone put in the dish, never knowing what the stuff is. I could
make it just like them and really enjoy it. Then I might be more likely
to research all the components and how to make it better, make it
perfect. THEN I'd grow and really learn.

I'm just so confused as to where your disdain of the 'little foods' of
Mexico comes from. Everyone has to start somewhere and little foods or
little steps are a great start. What is the point in insulting the foods
that millions of people, including Mexicans that grew up in Mexico (even
if poor) eating and loving.

Mashed potatoes is basic food in many countries but it's still comfort
food for millions, well-loved and something you CAN make extraordinarily
tasty with a bit of learning and care.

Melondy
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"Melondy" > wrote in message
. net...
> The Galloping Gourmand wrote:

..---snip for brevity---
>
> Mashed potatoes is basic food in many countries but it's still comfort
> food for millions, well-loved and something you CAN make extraordinarily
> tasty with a bit of learning and care.
>
> Melondy


Well said! Could not have said it better myself. Thanks for posting.

Wayne


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Melondy wrote:

>
> I may be sorry for entering this conversation. It's been years since
> I've posted to this newsgroup. But curiosity and confusion have got the
> better of me.




Very nice Melondy, thanks for sticking up for Sonora...
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