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Old 23-11-2006, 02:31 AM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff

Just for fun, you might want to look at the stuff on your Thanksgiving table
tomorrow and figure out what percentage of the items originated on the
American continent, from the turkey to cornbread, pumpkins to peas, potatoes
to yams, cranberries to tomatoes....

What think you?




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Old 23-11-2006, 04:23 AM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff

Come to think of it, you're right! ....and what a tasty meal all that
is too!
happy thanksagiving!!

embers


Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Just for fun, you might want to look at the stuff on your Thanksgiving table
tomorrow and figure out what percentage of the items originated on the
American continent, from the turkey to cornbread, pumpkins to peas, potatoes
to yams, cranberries to tomatoes....

What think you?


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Old 23-11-2006, 09:30 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Wayne Lundberg wrote:

What think you?


I think we're lucky that our Thanksgiving dinner menu doesn't include
*everything* the
Native Americans ate...

I mean, like, we could be eating reptiles, amphibians and insects
today...

Anybody got a recipe for Western Fence Lizard, Northern Toad, or
grasshoppers?

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Old 23-11-2006, 11:11 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff

Well, I have never personally tasted them but I have heard that iguanas
do taste like chicken, usually broiled.

some people like frog legs, and grasshopers i have seen them roasted
and chocolate coated.

I did at least once had a snake stew (caldo), my mom asked me if I
liked the "caldo de pescado" (fish soup), yes i said, it was fine,
why?, well because it was snake. If my mom wouldnt had tell me I
couldnt have tell the difference.

Anyway , they say snake has a lot of iron and vitamins, and often
recommended for anemic people.

Saludos y Feliz Día de Acción de Gracias )
happy thanksgiving folks

The Galloping Gourmand wrote:
Wayne Lundberg wrote:

What think you?


I think we're lucky that our Thanksgiving dinner menu doesn't include
*everything* the
Native Americans ate...

I mean, like, we could be eating reptiles, amphibians and insects
today...

Anybody got a recipe for Western Fence Lizard, Northern Toad, or
grasshoppers?


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Old 24-11-2006, 08:32 AM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


"Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message
...
Just for fun, you might want to look at the stuff on your Thanksgiving
table
tomorrow and figure out what percentage of the items originated on the
American continent, from the turkey to cornbread, pumpkins to peas,
potatoes
to yams, cranberries to tomatoes....

What think you?


Wow, amazing, What are the odds that the American Tradition of Thanksgiving
would include so many Native foods from whence they lived? Wow, It is
almost like the supermarket must have been sold out of everything, Huh.
Again wow, totally!




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Old 24-11-2006, 03:45 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Gunner wrote:

Wow, amazing, What are the odds that the American Tradition of Thanksgiving
would include so many Native foods from whence they lived? Wow, It is
almost like the supermarket must have been sold out of everything, Huh.
Again wow, totally!


Wayne was probably trying to pull the strings of middle class "guilt"
by pointing out that the Indians ate turkeys before the Pilgrims...

The sedentery tribes of North America lived in what was essentially
nature's supermarket.

They didn't have to go anywhere, they just waited for the food to grow,
or the game animals to wander by...

The men hunted, when the mood struck them, and the women gathered
various vegetables and fruits (in season). The women did all the dirty
work, but the men had the important job of keeping the universe in
order by performing various rituals (in season).

As humans spread over the Earth and cultures met and merged (or had
conflicts), various native peoples generously offered native foods to
the newcomers. For instance, the Tongva tribe of the Los Angeles area
welcomed the Spanish explorers with laboriously gathered chia seeds.
The Spaniards rejected the gift, saying that they had no
vessel to carry them in.

In other parts of the world, European explorers encountered starving
native peoples who refused to eat foods that were all around them. One
explorer reported that Africans would not eat the fish that were
vailable by the thousands in the Rift Valley lakes...

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Old 24-11-2006, 07:25 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


"Wayne Lundberg" wrote in message
...
Just for fun, you might want to look at the stuff on your Thanksgiving
table
tomorrow and figure out what percentage of the items originated on the
American continent, from the turkey to cornbread, pumpkins to peas,
potatoes
to yams, cranberries to tomatoes....

What think you?


I thnk it's a bit odd that you think you are pointing out something unusual
here.

I mean, Thanksgiving is an American Holiday originating out of a meal
comprised of American foods.

It's kind of like pointing out that people eat foods with chiles on Cinco De
Mayo.


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Old 24-11-2006, 08:16 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


DaveTwo wrote:
I mean, Thanksgiving is an American Holiday originating out of a meal
comprised of American foods.

It's kind of like pointing out that people eat foods with chiles on Cinco De
Mayo.


"Thanksgiving" became a national holiday (I believe) in the 1860's, per
Abraham Lincoln, over 200 years after the Pilgrims arrived here. While
our first president declated that we should all celebrate Thanksgiving,
we were only 13 states at the time. The first Thanksgiving was
celebrated as a traditional English harvest feast. Now, it is an annual
feast giving thanks to God for the bounty that we enjoy here... much of
which was planted, grown and raised and shipped here in the past 200
years. I'm not sure that it's important that it wasn't here when
Pilgrims arrived. Much of what was eaten on that first "Thanksgiving"
day was grown from seeds brought over here by the Pilgrims.

Jack

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Old 24-11-2006, 11:10 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Jack Tyler wrote:

Much of what was eaten on that first "Thanksgiving"
day was grown from seeds brought over here by the Pilgrims.


Traditionally, the bountiful harvest before the first Thanksgiving
feast was largely due to
the assistance that Tisquantum (Squanto) gave the Pilgrims in planting
maize along with a small fish for fertilizer.

Indian corn was precious, it was a matter of life and death to Indians
and Englishmen alike, and Indian corn repeatedly figured in the drama
of Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies.

One of my New England ancestors was Richard Warren, a passenger on the
Mayflower. He would have known Tisquantum personally. Both died within
three years of the Mayflower's landing in Massachusetts.

Richard's name appears on the Mayflower Compact, the document that they
all agreed to sign in order to legitimize their establishment of a
colony hundreds of miles away from the intended site in "Northern
Virginia" near the mouth of the Hudson river.

In a video called "Desperate Crossing", The History Channel dramatized
the Pilgims digging up Native American graves and seed corn caches near
Cape Cod. After an encounter with angry Wampanoag Indians, the Pilgrims
decided to move the colony to New Plymouth.

Later, the Pilgrims encountered the same band of Wampanoags and
Governor Bradford agreed to make restitution in the matter of the seed
corn they'd pilfered.

Massasoit, sachem of the Wampanoags, regarded the Pilgrims as not being
dangerous at all, according to some sources, but "Desperate Crossing"
suggests that Massaoit welcomed the Pilgrims as allies against the
Narragansetts and the Pequots, who were a
warlike band of Iroquois that had moved into New England only a century
before.

Massasoit agreed to a treaty with the Europeans in 1635, when he
realized that Indians were outnumbered. Massasoit agreed that all
Indians would live by English law. The Wampanoags were known as
"Praying Indians".

In 1675, Massasoit's grandson Metacomet became angered after seeing the
bodies of three Indians who had been hanged for some crime, and
Metacomet led the insurrection known as "King Phillip's War".

By that time, my direct ancestors were living in the small town of
Hingham. Wampanoags lay in ambush by a wheat field and attacked and
killed a relative who made a good account of himself by using his
musket as a club. Another ancestor was the officer in charge of the
Hingham militia. He was killed, and my direct ancestor's house was one
of five burned by Indians.

King Phillips War killed about 5% of the population of New England, and
some counties in Rhode Island were uninhabited by Europeans for decades
afterward.

Metacomet sent 5000 Wampanoag warriors to kill the English, and only
500 came back.

Metacomet was captured and hanged, along with chief Canonchet, his
ally. In those days, Canonchet was as notorious as Geronimo was, 200
years later

Metacomet could have gotten away, but he returned. Why? He came back to
retrieve his cache of seed corn...



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Old 26-11-2006, 06:21 AM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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"Jack Tyler" wrote in message
" Much of what was eaten on that first "Thanksgiving"
day was grown from seeds brought over here by the Pilgrims.

Jack

Really? Can you reference that and what specifically was brought over here
as seed ?


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Old 26-11-2006, 04:40 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Gunner wrote:
"Jack Tyler" wrote in message
" Much of what was eaten on that first "Thanksgiving"
day was grown from seeds brought over here by the Pilgrims.

Jack

Really? Can you reference that and what specifically was brought over here
as seed ?


Like another poster here, my ancestors were "pilgrims", but came over
later than the Mayflower. I read accounts from time to time of the
early days in the colonies. Caleb Johnson, also descended from
pilgrims, studies these things and has a few websites. A website
covering what we are discussing here is:

http://members.aol.com/calebj/thanksgiving.html

There aren't very many accounts of exactly what was brought over and
what was eaten in 1621, but some things are known from letters, etc.

Jack

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Old 26-11-2006, 06:21 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Wayne Lundberg wrote:
Just for fun, you might want to look at the stuff on your Thanksgiving table
tomorrow and figure out what percentage of the items originated on the
American continent, from the turkey to cornbread, pumpkins to peas, potatoes
to yams, cranberries to tomatoes....

What think you?


They may have had some sweet potatoes... however, it's doubtful that
Pilgrims brought over any yams from Africa or Asia... they don't really
grow well here. There are a couple of African supermarkets here in
Houston that carry yams... but they're not very good compared with
sweet potatoes, in my opinion.


If any country ever made use of a fruit that wasn't native to it... I
believe that Italy couldn't exist without the tomatoes brought back
from the "new world". You have to wonder just what the Hell they ate
before the tomato arrived.

;-)

Jack

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Old 26-11-2006, 09:21 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Jack Tyler wrote:

If any country ever made use of a fruit that wasn't native to it... I
believe that Italy couldn't exist without the tomatoes brought back
from the "new world". You have to wonder just what the Hell they ate
before the tomato arrived.


Tomatos were considered to be poisonous for decades.

And the noodle didn't arrive until Marco Polo returned from China...

I would guess that Italians living in the southern half of the country
ate food that you'd see in north Africa and the Near East. Unleavened
bread, olives, olive oil, goat cheese, lamb, goat, egg plants, etc.

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Old 26-11-2006, 09:31 PM posted to alt.food.mexican-cooking
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Default Thanksgiving meal mostly original Amerindian stuff


Jack Tyler wrote:

Like another poster here, my ancestors were "pilgrims", but came over
later than the Mayflower.


Yes, we are probably about ninth cousins. I'm related to both Adams,
Pierce, Grant, and the Bushs and Taft, but I haven't looked up Tyler.

The term "Pilgrim" has been widened to include both the Separatists
("Saints") and other passengers ("Strangers"), who travelled on the
Mayflower, and those Mayflower passengers have been confused with the
Puritans, who didn't want to establish a whole new church, they just
wanted to remove all Roman Catholic ritual and influence from the
Church of England.

There aren't very many accounts of exactly what was brought over and
what was eaten in 1621, but some things are known from letters, etc.


One site said that the most successful English crops that first
Thanksgiving was barley, from which they made their ale. Some of my
earliest relatives opened up the first public house in Duxbury,
Massachusetts, and one of them was put into the stocks after he engaged
in an act of drunken horsemanship. He rode his horse into a Puritan's
parlor...



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