This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All others
please simply read and learn.

Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas Chili
claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since Texas chili
is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile. Chili is the final
meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the green, red, yellow or
whatever veggie.)

And things get even more interesting....

Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas as
regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the supermarket
packets of chile mixes.

The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.

Anybody want to comment on this?

Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a cab to
the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set up to serve
birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con rompope.... Paradise!

Comments?

Wayne
PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for, is a no
brainer. I always win.

somehow the c was missing...

"Wayne Lundberg" > wrote in message
...
> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All others
> please simply read and learn.
>
> Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas
Chili
> claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since Texas
chili
> is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile. Chili is the final
> meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the green, red, yellow or
> whatever veggie.)
>
> And things get even more interesting....
>
> Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas as
> regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the supermarket
> packets of chile mixes.
>
> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>
> Anybody want to comment on this?
>
> Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a cab
to
> the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set up to serve
> birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con rompope.... Paradise!
>
> Comments?
>
> Wayne
> PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for, is a
no
> brainer. I always win.
>
>
>
>

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>
> Anybody want to comment on this?

If the birria has no bones in it, you can pick the meat out of the
chile sauce and make a
taco out of it.

And everybody knows that tacos are the epitome of fine Mexican
cuisine...

Taco Mania wrote:
> And everybody knows that tacos are the epitome of fine Mexican
> cuisine...

This jerk with the taco fixation is obviously suffering from the puny
penis syndrome compounded by advanced cerebral stenosis.

Rolly wrote:

> This jerk with the taco fixation is obviously suffering from the puny
> penis syndrome compounded by advanced cerebral stenosis.

Isn't your erstwhile interest in small penii the reason you have to
hide out in Mexico?

I missed the reason for your response Rolly... my kill switch must be
working since I did not have the displeasure of the troll you are referring
to.

"Rolly" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Taco Mania wrote:
> > And everybody knows that tacos are the epitome of fine Mexican
> > cuisine...
>
> This jerk with the taco fixation is obviously suffering from the puny
> penis syndrome compounded by advanced cerebral stenosis.
>

Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All others
> please simply read and learn.
>
> Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas Chili
> claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since Texas chili
> is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile. Chili is the final
> meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the green, red, yellow or
> whatever veggie.)
>
> And things get even more interesting....
>
> Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas as
> regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the supermarket
> packets of chile mixes.
>
> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>
> Anybody want to comment on this?
>
> Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a cab to
> the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set up to serve
> birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con rompope.... Paradise!
>
> Comments?
>
> Wayne
> PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for, is a no
> brainer. I always win.
>
>
>
>
I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made
with goat meat. Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and
green, both made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks. My
Spanish Aunt from Santa Fe makes a killer chili from very tough meat
like a round steak or something like that. She painstakingly cuts each
piece with a knife into tiny 1/4" square cubes and cooks till tender. I
think she uses Baker pods from NM and it is delicious especially topped
with some chopped fire roasted chimayo.

Wayne, how do you guys trim your chili meat and what are the basic
ingredient proportions? I'm not crazy about cumin or "Texas" chili but
can't say that I have ever really had any authentic besides the store
bought cans we ate as kids. Nalleys'chili con carne was one of my
favorites and I think it was made with ground beef and soy. I'm sure it
just torks your jaw that I am mentioning chili that is more suitable for
a hot dog topping than representing the great state of Texas.

Brad

P.S. When you make tacos with Texas Chili how do you keep them beans
from falling out of the Old El Paso shell? ;-)

Sonoran Dude wrote:

> I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made
> with goat meat.

Think outside the box.

Birria translates as "mess", because it's far messier to eat than
barbecued ribs dripping sauce. Birria is a guiso, or *stew*, at best.
It may even descend to the level of being a *guisoto", a very humble
stew.

You have to pick the meat out from between the vertebrae of some
animal's spine. Birria is called "sopa de gato" in Oaxaca, but the sopa
de gato recipe I translated called for the spine of a steer.

But, who knows, sopa de gato may actually be what you're eating, way
back in the interior of Mexico. If a Mexican peasant family offers to
share their birria with you, it may be the best food they have to eat.
Those may not be rabbit legs in the sauce.

You can make birria with beef, goat, sheep, calf, lamb, burro,
armadillo, rabbit, peccary, iguana or possum. You name it, in Mexico,
if it has four legs or six legs (or no legs at all) it's can be made
into birria.

In order to be *authentic* birria, it has to be made with trash meat
that upper class people would never touch. Eating birria in a Mexican
cafe or roadhouse is like slumming, it's like eating soul food.

Notwithstanding the above remarks, I have had birria made with chunks
of lamb, no bones at all, and I didn't have to chew on the vertebrae.
That was in a taqueria in the gentrified Old Town tourist district
across the street from a Spanish mission.

Lots of mexicans were eating there because it was far cheaper than the
sit down Mexican ristorante next door.

I made tacos out of the lamb and threw the fiery red sauce away.

> Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and
> green, both made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks.

Chile rojo and chile verde. Chile rojo is the same thing as chile
colorado.

"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> > This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
others
> > please simply read and learn.
> >
>.snip for brevity...
>
> Brad
>
> P.S. When you make tacos with Texas Chili how do you keep them beans
> from falling out of the Old El Paso shell? ;-)

Since chili is not a Mexican dish, I make chili kind of my own and Texas, NM
and AZ influence. I use ground pork, turkey or beef to start with. We are
leaning more and more toward turkey. I fry a bunch of onion slices, then add
the ground meat, then add a packet of whatever chili powder I happen to have
in the pantry from any number of makers. In the pressure cooker I force my
beans (with a spoon of lard and half an onion) toward tenderness in about 35
minutes, letting the steam cool of by itself. Then open the pressure cooker
and pour in the stuff from the frying pan. Add salt and a bit more oregano
until I get the familiar yummy flavor the family likes so much.

You are right in that birria is mostly made from goat, but can be made from
anything since the chile de arbol flavor is a bit overwhelming. And for sure
cumin does not fit in the Mexican cuisine at all.

Last night I made rajas, which in a way is a kind of chili. Small chunks of
pork slow cooked until tender, then adding onion, thin slices of chile
poblano that have been burned over an open fire, steamed in their own heat
in a towel, deseeded and deveined and sliced. Add a can of tomato (green or
red), let it simmer for a while then serve as a taco in steaming hot white
corn tortillas

The best way to keep beans from rolling out of your taco shell is to start
with a flat tortilla fried to crisp as a tostada base, then put refried
beans like you would a peanut butter sandwich. Top it off with guacamole and
chicharron plus whatever else you can scrounge from the refrigerator.
Cheese, lettuce, onion, crisped bacon... etc. Tostadas are among my favorite
treats.

Wayne

Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> "Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
>>> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
> others
>>> please simply read and learn.
>>>
>> .snip for brevity...
>>
>> Brad
>>
>> P.S. When you make tacos with Texas Chili how do you keep them beans
>> from falling out of the Old El Paso shell? ;-)
>
> Since chili is not a Mexican dish, I make chili kind of my own and Texas, NM
> and AZ influence. I use ground pork, turkey or beef to start with. We are
> leaning more and more toward turkey. I fry a bunch of onion slices, then add
> the ground meat, then add a packet of whatever chili powder I happen to have
> in the pantry from any number of makers. In the pressure cooker I force my
> beans (with a spoon of lard and half an onion) toward tenderness in about 35
> minutes, letting the steam cool of by itself. Then open the pressure cooker
> and pour in the stuff from the frying pan. Add salt and a bit more oregano
> until I get the familiar yummy flavor the family likes so much.
>
> You are right in that birria is mostly made from goat, but can be made from
> anything since the chile de arbol flavor is a bit overwhelming. And for sure
> cumin does not fit in the Mexican cuisine at all.
>
> Last night I made rajas, which in a way is a kind of chili. Small chunks of
> pork slow cooked until tender, then adding onion, thin slices of chile
> poblano that have been burned over an open fire, steamed in their own heat
> in a towel, deseeded and deveined and sliced. Add a can of tomato (green or
> red), let it simmer for a while then serve as a taco in steaming hot white
> corn tortillas
>
> The best way to keep beans from rolling out of your taco shell is to start
> with a flat tortilla fried to crisp as a tostada base, then put refried
> beans like you would a peanut butter sandwich. Top it off with guacamole and
> chicharron plus whatever else you can scrounge from the refrigerator.
> Cheese, lettuce, onion, crisped bacon... etc. Tostadas are among my favorite
> treats.
>
> Wayne
>
>
Thanks Wayne, You have inspired me to wipe out the popcorn grease from
my pressure cooker and try this tomorrow... God Bless the Pressure Cooker.

BTW... Here is my gourmet Mexican Popcorn recipe... Take the gasket out
of the pressure cooker... over medium gas heat I pour a 3/4 pancake
amount of peanut or olive oil in the bottom of the pan then toss in
enough white kernels to cover the oil spot. Close the lid with gasket
removed and let them come up to heat and begin popping, maybe 3 min. My
stainless cooker pops the corn perfectly as it sits there and only
shaking the the PC during the last few slow pops. After pops slow down
to one pop every 5 seconds I flip it over immediately and shake to get
the corn off the bottom and prevent any burning.

Open the cooker and drizzle with more extra virgin olive oil and season
with either the Mexican Lime Salt or the Mexican Lime and Chile salt.
Put the lid back on and shake it well right side up and upside down...
Comes out perfect every time. I use the cheap white bag popcorn but any
will do. Yellow is fine also.

Delicious

Birria Bandito wrote:
> Sonoran Dude wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made
>> with goat meat.
>
> Think outside the box.
>
> Birria translates as "mess", because it's far messier to eat than
> barbecued ribs dripping sauce. Birria is a guiso, or *stew*, at best.
> It may even descend to the level of being a *guisoto", a very humble
> stew.
>
> You have to pick the meat out from between the vertebrae of some
> animal's spine. Birria is called "sopa de gato" in Oaxaca, but the sopa
> de gato recipe I translated called for the spine of a steer.
>
> But, who knows, sopa de gato may actually be what you're eating, way
> back in the interior of Mexico. If a Mexican peasant family offers to
> share their birria with you, it may be the best food they have to eat.
> Those may not be rabbit legs in the sauce.
>
> You can make birria with beef, goat, sheep, calf, lamb, burro,
> armadillo, rabbit, peccary, iguana or possum. You name it, in Mexico,
> if it has four legs or six legs (or no legs at all) it's can be made
> into birria.
>
> In order to be *authentic* birria, it has to be made with trash meat
> that upper class people would never touch. Eating birria in a Mexican
> cafe or roadhouse is like slumming, it's like eating soul food.
>
> Notwithstanding the above remarks, I have had birria made with chunks
> of lamb, no bones at all, and I didn't have to chew on the vertebrae.
> That was in a taqueria in the gentrified Old Town tourist district
> across the street from a Spanish mission.
>
> Lots of mexicans were eating there because it was far cheaper than the
> sit down Mexican ristorante next door.
>
> I made tacos out of the lamb and threw the fiery red sauce away.
>
>> Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and
>> green, both made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks.
>
> Chile rojo and chile verde. Chile rojo is the same thing as chile
> colorado.
>
I'm on my way to get ox tails now... what is your recipe?

"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
>> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
>> others
>> please simply read and learn.
>>
>> Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas
>> Chili
>> claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since Texas
>> chili
>> is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile. Chili is the final
>> meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the green, red, yellow or
>> whatever veggie.)
>>
>> And things get even more interesting....
>>
>> Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas as
>> regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the supermarket
>> packets of chile mixes.
>>
>> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>>
>> Anybody want to comment on this?
>>
>> Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a cab
>> to
>> the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set up to
>> serve
>> birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con rompope.... Paradise!
>>
>> Comments?
>>
>> Wayne
>> PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for, is a
>> no
>> brainer. I always win.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made with
> goat meat. Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and green, both
> made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks. My Spanish Aunt from
> Santa Fe makes a killer chili from very tough meat like a round steak or
> something like that. She painstakingly cuts each piece with a knife into
> tiny 1/4" square cubes and cooks till tender. I think she uses Baker pods
> from NM and it is delicious especially topped with some chopped fire
> roasted chimayo.
>
> Wayne, how do you guys trim your chili meat and what are the basic
> ingredient proportions? I'm not crazy about cumin or "Texas" chili but
> can't say that I have ever really had any authentic besides the store
> bought cans we ate as kids. Nalleys'chili con carne was one of my
> favorites and I think it was made with ground beef and soy. I'm sure it
> just torks your jaw that I am mentioning chili that is more suitable for a
> hot dog topping than representing the great state of Texas.

I lived in Texas for a while and grew up in AZ so I like both versions. The
Texas Chili I preferred was without beans, with tomatoes, fairly heavy on
cumin, and with enough chile to make it red. That and a piece of cornbread
and my eyes would roll up in my head with happiness.

Here in AZ, though, my chili is like you describe. It's mostly just meat and
chile. Since I love the taste of chiles it's great to not have anything
covering it up. It also tenderizes the meat, though to some systems such
concentrations of chiles can be a bit rich and cause some explosive results.
I still haven't settled on my favorite combo of dried chiles, but my tastes
go to more roasted, sweeter flavors rather than sharp and non sweet. No
tomatoes, little if any cumin. Give me some tortillas or some papas and I'm
a happy camper.

I love Texas chili, but I have never had results as good as I can get in a
good chili place. I guess because it more complicated and takes more time
it's harder to get the recipe right. Az chili is easier, just as good, and
is better in a tortilla or over other foods such as rice or potatoes. So
here's to both, as well as birria, and good old green chile stew. No need to
argue when all of them can make a great meal.

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

> Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas as
> regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the supermarket
> packets of chile mixes.
>
> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>
> Anybody want to comment on this?
>
> Wayne

My favorite Mexican (as opposed to Tex-Mex) restaurant here in San
Antonio has a very tasty goat-meat birria, but it hasn't ever reminded
me of chili con carne because it's shredded meat and it's not soupy.
More like cochinita pibil to me, not that there's anything wrong wioth
that. But I do like it, and also the fact that I can bring home the
extra along with some more of their thick corn tortillas. Makes a great
breakfast the next morning!

I have thought, though, that it wouldn't take much to turn their carne
guisado into Tex-Mex chili, in an evolutionary sense. A start would be
to cut the cubes of meat somewhat smaller, leave out some of whatever
thickening they use in the guisado, and include a few items that might
be on hand -- wild onions, Mexico oregano, native chiles.

I don't think the difference between Mexican (whatever that means,
given the diversity of traditional Mexican cooking) and Tex-Mex, or
New-Mex, or Cal-Mex, is as great as some would believe. I look at it as
a way to make use of whatever is available locally that will allow you
to approximate the food you had where you came from.

David

Sonoran Dude wrote:
> Birria Bandito wrote:

> > In order to be *authentic* birria, it has to be made with trash meat
> > that upper class people would never touch. Eating birria in a Mexican
> > cafe or roadhouse is like slumming, it's like eating soul food.

> I'm on my way to get ox tails now... what is your recipe?

The worst mistake that Americans tend to make about Mexican food is
thinking that there are *rules* about how to make it.

When Mexican paisanos cook, they use whatever is at hand. Americans
need recipes to get started cooking paisano-style, though.

You can substitute ox tails for the backbones in this recipe for "sopa
de gato". It is a mildly spiced birria.

1 kilo of backbones of beef, veal or goat
250 grams of chick peas, soaked from the previous night
250 grams of peeled and cut carrots in cubes
500 grams of chayotes, cut in cubes
250 grams of green beans, cleaned and cut in pieces
1 kilo of peeled tomato, without seed and cut in cubes
1 small sprig of coriander
6 pasilla chiles
salt to taste.

Cook backbones in sufficient water, and little by little and according
to the necessary time of cooking for each vegetable, add the carrot,
chayote, green beans and chick peas.

Finally the tomato is added, the coriander and let boil about 10
minutes, salt to taste.

Deseed and devein the pasilla chiles, blister them in a frying pan,
then chop and puree them in a blender and add to the pot. Serve with
chopped cilantro, and chopped onion, as well as lemons divided in
wedges.

Sounds good to me!!!

"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> > "Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> >>> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
> > others
> >>> please simply read and learn.
> >>>
> >> .snip for brevity...
> >>
> >> Brad
> >>
> >> P.S. When you make tacos with Texas Chili how do you keep them beans
> >> from falling out of the Old El Paso shell? ;-)
> >
> > Since chili is not a Mexican dish, I make chili kind of my own and
Texas, NM
> > and AZ influence. I use ground pork, turkey or beef to start with. We
are
> > leaning more and more toward turkey. I fry a bunch of onion slices, then
add
> > the ground meat, then add a packet of whatever chili powder I happen to
have
> > in the pantry from any number of makers. In the pressure cooker I force
my
> > beans (with a spoon of lard and half an onion) toward tenderness in
about 35
> > minutes, letting the steam cool of by itself. Then open the pressure
cooker
> > and pour in the stuff from the frying pan. Add salt and a bit more
oregano
> > until I get the familiar yummy flavor the family likes so much.
> >
> > You are right in that birria is mostly made from goat, but can be made
from
> > anything since the chile de arbol flavor is a bit overwhelming. And for
sure
> > cumin does not fit in the Mexican cuisine at all.
> >
> > Last night I made rajas, which in a way is a kind of chili. Small chunks
of
> > pork slow cooked until tender, then adding onion, thin slices of chile
> > poblano that have been burned over an open fire, steamed in their own
heat
> > in a towel, deseeded and deveined and sliced. Add a can of tomato (green
or
> > red), let it simmer for a while then serve as a taco in steaming hot
white
> > corn tortillas
> >
> > The best way to keep beans from rolling out of your taco shell is to
start
> > with a flat tortilla fried to crisp as a tostada base, then put refried
> > beans like you would a peanut butter sandwich. Top it off with guacamole
and
> > chicharron plus whatever else you can scrounge from the refrigerator.
> > Cheese, lettuce, onion, crisped bacon... etc. Tostadas are among my
favorite
> > treats.
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> >
> Thanks Wayne, You have inspired me to wipe out the popcorn grease from
> my pressure cooker and try this tomorrow... God Bless the Pressure Cooker.
>
> BTW... Here is my gourmet Mexican Popcorn recipe... Take the gasket out
> of the pressure cooker... over medium gas heat I pour a 3/4 pancake
> amount of peanut or olive oil in the bottom of the pan then toss in
> enough white kernels to cover the oil spot. Close the lid with gasket
> removed and let them come up to heat and begin popping, maybe 3 min. My
> stainless cooker pops the corn perfectly as it sits there and only
> shaking the the PC during the last few slow pops. After pops slow down
> to one pop every 5 seconds I flip it over immediately and shake to get
> the corn off the bottom and prevent any burning.
>
> Open the cooker and drizzle with more extra virgin olive oil and season
> with either the Mexican Lime Salt or the Mexican Lime and Chile salt.
> Put the lid back on and shake it well right side up and upside down...
> Comes out perfect every time. I use the cheap white bag popcorn but any
> will do. Yellow is fine also.
>
> Delicious

"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Birria Bandito wrote:
> > Sonoran Dude wrote:
> >
> >> I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made
> >> with goat meat.
> >
> > Think outside the box.
> >
> > Birria translates as "mess", because it's far messier to eat than
> > barbecued ribs dripping sauce. Birria is a guiso, or *stew*, at best.
> > It may even descend to the level of being a *guisoto", a very humble
> > stew.
> >
> > You have to pick the meat out from between the vertebrae of some
> > animal's spine. Birria is called "sopa de gato" in Oaxaca, but the sopa
> > de gato recipe I translated called for the spine of a steer.
> >
> > But, who knows, sopa de gato may actually be what you're eating, way
> > back in the interior of Mexico. If a Mexican peasant family offers to
> > share their birria with you, it may be the best food they have to eat.
> > Those may not be rabbit legs in the sauce.
> >
> > You can make birria with beef, goat, sheep, calf, lamb, burro,
> > armadillo, rabbit, peccary, iguana or possum. You name it, in Mexico,
> > if it has four legs or six legs (or no legs at all) it's can be made
> > into birria.
> >
> > In order to be *authentic* birria, it has to be made with trash meat
> > that upper class people would never touch. Eating birria in a Mexican
> > cafe or roadhouse is like slumming, it's like eating soul food.
> >
> > Notwithstanding the above remarks, I have had birria made with chunks
> > of lamb, no bones at all, and I didn't have to chew on the vertebrae.
> > That was in a taqueria in the gentrified Old Town tourist district
> > across the street from a Spanish mission.
> >
> > Lots of mexicans were eating there because it was far cheaper than the
> > sit down Mexican ristorante next door.
> >
> > I made tacos out of the lamb and threw the fiery red sauce away.
> >
> >> Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and
> >> green, both made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks.
> >
> > Chile rojo and chile verde. Chile rojo is the same thing as chile
> > colorado.
> >
> I'm on my way to get ox tails now... what is your recipe?

I only know oxtail in a Utah stew. Never had it in Mexico that I can
remember.

Wayne

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 23:45:48 GMT, Wayne Lundberg wrote:
>
> > I missed the reason for your response Rolly... my kill switch must be
> > working since I did not have the displeasure of the troll you are
referring
> > to.
>
> It helps to kill-file all posts from Google. Whcih is what I'm
> getting ready to do. I'm currently monitoring what I'd be
> otherwise kill-filing VIA a negative scoring system - and It
> doesn't look like I'll be missing much.
>
> -sw

The site is so much more interesting since killing the troll. It's worth
whatever effort it takes.

Wayne

"Wayne Lundberg" > wrote in
:

> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
> others please simply read and learn.
>
> Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas
> Chili claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since
> Texas chili is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile.
> Chili is the final meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the
> green, red, yellow or whatever veggie.)
>
> And things get even more interesting....
>
> Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas
> as regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the
> supermarket packets of chile mixes.
>
> The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
>
> Anybody want to comment on this?
>
> Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a
> cab to the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set
> up to serve birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con
> rompope.... Paradise!
>
> Comments?
>
> Wayne
> PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for,
> is a no brainer. I always win.
>
>
>
>

I don't see how Texas Chili is anything like birria. Birria is made as a
rule out of goat meat (chivo) Served in a chil(e) sauce and topped with
onions and cilantro and bottled Tapatio hot sauce.

IMO birria and chili are not the same, even the red chile sauce differs.

Whatever is cooked in Texas better stay in Texas!

"Birria Bandito" > wrote in
ps.com:

>
> Sonoran Dude wrote:
>
>> I was under the impression, (and I may be wrong) that birria was made
>> with goat meat.
>
> Think outside the box.
>
> Birria translates as "mess", because it's far messier to eat than
> barbecued ribs dripping sauce. Birria is a guiso, or *stew*, at best.
> It may even descend to the level of being a *guisoto", a very humble
> stew.
>
> You have to pick the meat out from between the vertebrae of some
> animal's spine. Birria is called "sopa de gato" in Oaxaca, but the sopa
> de gato recipe I translated called for the spine of a steer.
>
> But, who knows, sopa de gato may actually be what you're eating, way
> back in the interior of Mexico. If a Mexican peasant family offers to
> share their birria with you, it may be the best food they have to eat.
> Those may not be rabbit legs in the sauce.
>
> You can make birria with beef, goat, sheep, calf, lamb, burro,
> armadillo, rabbit, peccary, iguana or possum. You name it, in Mexico,
> if it has four legs or six legs (or no legs at all) it's can be made
> into birria.
>
> In order to be *authentic* birria, it has to be made with trash meat
> that upper class people would never touch. Eating birria in a Mexican
> cafe or roadhouse is like slumming, it's like eating soul food.
>
> Notwithstanding the above remarks, I have had birria made with chunks
> of lamb, no bones at all, and I didn't have to chew on the vertebrae.
> That was in a taqueria in the gentrified Old Town tourist district
> across the street from a Spanish mission.
>
> Lots of mexicans were eating there because it was far cheaper than the
> sit down Mexican ristorante next door.
>
> I made tacos out of the lamb and threw the fiery red sauce away.
>
>> Out here in AZ we have 2 main chili dishes. Red and
>> green, both made with beef or pork cut in 1/2" to 1 1/2" chunks.
>
> Chile rojo and chile verde. Chile rojo is the same thing as chile
> colorado.
>
>

Ditto to all.

"luna the lurker" > wrote in message
...
> "Wayne Lundberg" > wrote in
> :
>
> > This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All
> > others please simply read and learn.
> >
> > Chili, as we know it in the US, is either Texas or simply Chili. Texas
> > Chili claim that adding beans takes it out of the realm of Texas since
> > Texas chili is meat and chile. Note the spelling. Chili and chile.
> > Chili is the final meal of cooked meat and chile (chile being the
> > green, red, yellow or whatever veggie.)
> >
> > And things get even more interesting....
> >
> > Chili in Mexico is unknown. Whatever happened in Texas stays in Texas
> > as regards to chili con carne, chili beans or plain chili in the
> > supermarket packets of chile mixes.
> >
> > The closest you come to Texas chili in Mexico is birria.
> >
> > Anybody want to comment on this?
> >
> > Whenever I go to Guadalajara I take the early flight in time to get a
> > cab to the 'rastro' where dozens of 'estanquillo' restaurants are set
> > up to serve birria along with hand patied tortillas, cafe con
> > rompope.... Paradise!
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Wayne
> > PS - after this power breakfast whatever negotiation I am there for,
> > is a no brainer. I always win.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> I don't see how Texas Chili is anything like birria. Birria is made as a
> rule out of goat meat (chivo) Served in a chil(e) sauce and topped with
> onions and cilantro and bottled Tapatio hot sauce.
>
> IMO birria and chili are not the same, even the red chile sauce differs.
>
> Whatever is cooked in Texas better stay in Texas!

No argument. I said the closest thing I can think of to Texas chili is
birria because it is meat and sauce as is Texas chili. I'm not suggesting
it's the same... just similar. And similar in other ways as well since we
know Texas chili started in San Antonio with native women selling it in the
plaza by the cupful. Made mostly from pieces of the cow tossed to the dogs,
recovered by the Indian ladies, cooked in hot enough sauce to kill all germs
and add that special spark to the meal. Mostly eaten for breakfast as the
men in town readied for the daily chores. Gentry never came close to Texas
chili. Still don't! Beans were added when the meat supply was short. And
Texas chile lovers still hate the beans! (Even though beans in a real chili
concoction gives the beans that essential enzyme change that make them fully
digestible to the human body. Nobody that eats chile with beans will have
the dreaded flatulence others suffer from.)

Wayne

Wayne Lundberg wrote:

>...we
> know Texas chili started in San Antonio with native women selling it in the
> plaza by the cupful. Made mostly from pieces of the cow tossed to the dogs,
> recovered by the Indian ladies, cooked in hot enough sauce to kill all germs
> and add that special spark to the meal.

Who are the "we" who know this, Wayne, please?

I haven't read this "pieces of cow tossed to the dogs, recovered by the
Indian ladies" story in any history of San Antonio chili -- "chili con
carne" or "carne con chile," either one. I have a copy of Robb Walsh's,
"The Tex-Mex Cookbook: A History in Recipes and Photos," that I refer
you to. Will you please cite a reference for your story?

> Beans were added when the meat supply was short. And
> Texas chile lovers still hate the beans! (Even though beans in a real chili
> concoction gives the beans that essential enzyme change that make them fully
> digestible to the human body. Nobody that eats chile with beans will have
> the dreaded flatulence others suffer from.)

No need to generalize, Wayne. I live in San Antonio, and although I
don't like to include beans in my chili I know people who do. So what?
Do all Californians cook their Cal-Mex the same? ;-)

Also, there's nothing to be dreaded about flatulence, IMO. If you do
dread it, though, there's always epazote!

I like to make my chili con carne without beans because I like to
flavor them them differently from my chili. It's just my way of making
my chili. And my chile, as in green chile stew.

David

"dtwright37" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
>
> >...we
> > know Texas chili started in San Antonio with native women selling it in
the
> > plaza by the cupful. Made mostly from pieces of the cow tossed to the
dogs,
> > recovered by the Indian ladies, cooked in hot enough sauce to kill all
germs
> > and add that special spark to the meal.
>
> Who are the "we" who know this, Wayne, please?
>
> I haven't read this "pieces of cow tossed to the dogs, recovered by the
> Indian ladies" story in any history of San Antonio chili -- "chili con
> carne" or "carne con chile," either one. I have a copy of Robb Walsh's,
> "The Tex-Mex Cookbook: A History in Recipes and Photos," that I refer
> you to. Will you please cite a reference for your story?

It was in a previous life. I use autohypnosis to get into my past lifes and
visit the places I talk about. Don't you?

But in all reality it comes mostly from research within the huge underground
library and forensic tables at the Mexican Museo de Antropologia which
traces all ancient and recent anthropology for all of the Americas including
the US before it took over Mexico in the war of the early 1800's. You must
know that your town was Mexican back then and that cattle was a prized
posession of the wealthy and only scraps fell to the working class including
cowboy, vaquero and the like.

Wayne


>
> > Beans were added when the meat supply was short. And
> > Texas chile lovers still hate the beans! (Even though beans in a real
chili
> > concoction gives the beans that essential enzyme change that make them
fully
> > digestible to the human body. Nobody that eats chile with beans will
have
> > the dreaded flatulence others suffer from.)
>
> No need to generalize, Wayne. I live in San Antonio, and although I
> don't like to include beans in my chili I know people who do. So what?
> Do all Californians cook their Cal-Mex the same? ;-)
>
> Also, there's nothing to be dreaded about flatulence, IMO. If you do
> dread it, though, there's always epazote!
>
> I like to make my chili con carne without beans because I like to
> flavor them them differently from my chili. It's just my way of making
> my chili. And my chile, as in green chile stew.
>
> David
>

Sonoran Dude wrote:
>
> P.S. When you make tacos with Texas Chili how do you keep them beans
> from falling out of the Old El Paso shell? ;-)

Since there are no beans in real Texas Chili, that shouldn't be a
problem, should it?

Jack

dtwright37 wrote:

>
> My favorite Mexican (as opposed to Tex-Mex) restaurant here in San
> Antonio has a very tasty goat-meat birria, but it hasn't ever reminded
> me of chili con carne because it's shredded meat and it's not soupy.
> More like cochinita pibil to me, not that there's anything wrong wioth
> that.

Ooh! We're living in San Antonio, Please share the name of the
restaurant! The most Mexican one we've found to date is Los Valles on
Nogalitos, offering items that include milanesa, tacos al pastor, and
tacos de cabeza (all more Mex than Tex-Mex). But we're always up for
other places with authentic or close-to-authentic Mexican food!

April G.
San Antonio, TX

April Grunspan wrote:
> dtwright37 wrote:
>
> >
> > My favorite Mexican (as opposed to Tex-Mex) restaurant here in San
> > Antonio has a very tasty goat-meat birria, but it hasn't ever reminded
> > me of chili con carne because it's shredded meat and it's not soupy.
> > More like cochinita pibil to me, not that there's anything wrong wioth
> > that.
>
> Ooh! We're living in San Antonio, Please share the name of the
> restaurant! The most Mexican one we've found to date is Los Valles on
> Nogalitos, offering items that include milanesa, tacos al pastor, and
> tacos de cabeza (all more Mex than Tex-Mex). But we're always up for
> other places with authentic or close-to-authentic Mexican food!
>
> April G.
> San Antonio, TX

Hi, April -- There are two that are pretty close to each other. The one
I had in mind is Picante Grill on Broadway, across from the Witte
Museum. Besides the birria, another of my faves there is the Chile en
Nogada, which is in season now. If you prefer corn tortillas be sure to
ask for them when you order, because flour tortillas are the default.
Unlike many husband-wife restaurants, she rules the kitchen and he runs
the front of the house. They're very nice people, as are all the
servers.

A few blocks north is La Calesa, just off Broadway on Hildebrand. The
best landmark used to be that it was across Hildebrand from Earl Abel's
(now it's across from the hole in the ground that used to be Earl's.)

I haven't been there for several months, but my favorite dish was
their Cochinita Pibil, and I remember that they have some moles. The
restaurant is in an old house, so you'll be seated in one of two-three
downstairs rooms, none of which has more than a few tables. You can
also eat on the front porch, now that the weather's cooler.

David

April Grunspan wrote:
> dtwright37 wrote:
>
> >
> > My favorite Mexican (as opposed to Tex-Mex) restaurant here in San
> > Antonio has a very tasty goat-meat birria, but it hasn't ever reminded
> > me of chili con carne because it's shredded meat and it's not soupy.
> > More like cochinita pibil to me, not that there's anything wrong wioth
> > that.
>
> Ooh! We're living in San Antonio, Please share the name of the
> restaurant! The most Mexican one we've found to date is Los Valles on
> Nogalitos, offering items that include milanesa, tacos al pastor, and
> tacos de cabeza (all more Mex than Tex-Mex). But we're always up for
> other places with authentic or close-to-authentic Mexican food!
>
> April G.
> San Antonio, TX

Hi, April -- There are two that are pretty close to each other. The one
I had in mind is Picante Grill on Broadway, across from the Witte
Museum. Besides the birria, another of my faves there is the Chile en
Nogada, which is in season now. If you prefer corn tortillas be sure to
ask for them when you order, because flour tortillas are the default.
Unlike many husband-wife restaurants, she rules the kitchen and he runs
the front of the house. They're very nice people, as are all the
servers.

A few blocks north is La Calesa, just off Broadway on Hildebrand. The
best landmark used to be that it was across Hildebrand from Earl Abel's
(now it's across from the hole in the ground that used to be Earl's.)

I haven't been there for several months, but my favorite dish was
their Cochinita Pibil, and I remember that they have some moles. The
restaurant is in an old house, so you'll be seated in one of two-three
downstairs rooms, none of which has more than a few tables. You can
also eat on the front porch, now that the weather's cooler.

David

Steve Wertz wrote:

> It helps to kill-file all posts from Google. Whcih is what I'm
> getting ready to do. I'm currently monitoring what I'd be
> otherwise kill-filing VIA a negative scoring system - and It
> doesn't look like I'll be missing much.
>
> -sw

Too bad Google doesn't allow kill-filing, or even deleting. I'm now
stuck with Google Groups since I signed on with sbcglobal for a year
and afterward found out that I can't sign on to newsgroups from San
Antonio. Wish I'd known that before going broadband.

Given that, sw, tell me why all Google posts are without merit. It
sounds like predjudice in the pure sense to me: "You're one of them,
therefore you're unworthy."

David

I'm not the one banning all Google notes. Just the particular troll that has
since been eliminated in my server.


"dtwright37" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> > It helps to kill-file all posts from Google. Whcih is what I'm
> > getting ready to do. I'm currently monitoring what I'd be
> > otherwise kill-filing VIA a negative scoring system - and It
> > doesn't look like I'll be missing much.
> >
> > -sw
>
> Too bad Google doesn't allow kill-filing, or even deleting. I'm now
> stuck with Google Groups since I signed on with sbcglobal for a year
> and afterward found out that I can't sign on to newsgroups from San
> Antonio. Wish I'd known that before going broadband.
>
> Given that, sw, tell me why all Google posts are without merit. It
> sounds like predjudice in the pure sense to me: "You're one of them,
> therefore you're unworthy."
>
> David
>

dtwright37 wrote back, to which I reply:

THANK YOU!

April G.
San Antonio, TX

Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> I'm not the one banning all Google notes. Just the particular troll that has
> since been eliminated in my server.

I realize that, Wayne, and I had no intention of including you in my
comment. I just wanted to know why Steve Wertz wrote what he did:

> > Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> > > It helps to kill-file all posts from Google. Whcih [sic] is what I'm
> > > getting ready to do. I'm currently monitoring what I'd be
> > > otherwise kill-filing VIA a negative scoring system - and It
> > > doesn't look like I'll be missing much.
> > >
> > > -sw

David

April Grunspan wrote:

> Ooh! We're living in San Antonio, Please share the name of the
> restaurant! The most Mexican one we've found to date is Los Valles on
> Nogalitos, offering items that include milanesa, tacos al pastor, and
> tacos de cabeza (all more Mex than Tex-Mex). But we're always up for
> other places with authentic or close-to-authentic Mexican food!

Ooh! It sounds like you really like to go down, April. On the wall
menu, I mean ;-)

I'll bet you've gone down to number 13 or number 14. Milanesa. That's
Mexican-Italian, isn't it?

April Grunspan wrote:
> dtwright37 wrote back, to which I reply:
>
> THANK YOU!
>
> April G.
> San Antonio, TX

And I reply, April, you're welcome!

David

dtwright37 > asked in message
oups.com...
[snip]
> Given that, sw, tell me why all Google posts are
> without merit. It sounds like predjudice in the pure
> sense to me: "You're one of them, therefore you're
> unworthy."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.f..._frm/thread/63
0c8d07579328fb/00b2c9269b831825?lnk=st&q=google+groups+group%3Are c.f
ood.cooking&rnum=2&hl=en#00b2c9269b831825

or, when it breaks...

http://tinyurl.com/fcbaf

The Ranger

Menu on the Wall wrote:

> April Grunspan wrote:
>
>
>>Ooh! We're living in San Antonio, Please share the name of the
>>restaurant! The most Mexican one we've found to date is Los Valles on
>>Nogalitos, offering items that include milanesa, tacos al pastor, and
>>tacos de cabeza (all more Mex than Tex-Mex). But we're always up for
>>other places with authentic or close-to-authentic Mexican food!
>
>
> Ooh! It sounds like you really like to go down, April. On the wall
> menu, I mean ;-)
>
> I'll bet you've gone down to number 13 or number 14. Milanesa. That's
> Mexican-Italian, isn't it?
>

<GRIN!> Possibly, since Mexico is multicultural. I don't think beef was
on the indigenous menus of Mexico -- but it's certainly there now!
Milanesa (breaded, thin beefsteak) was on most menus at local
restaurants in Guadalajara, when I lived there for 7 years in the 70's.

The real beauty of Mexican cuisine is its regionality. One can eat
something in Guadalajara and not find it on a menu in Morelia or Puebla.
The Yucatan is a culinary world unto itself, with black sauces and lots
of turkey. Banana leaves are used instead of corn husks.

Damn -- now I'm hungry!!!

April G.
San Antonio, TX

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 03:30:20 GMT, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 18:25:06 -0700, The Ranger wrote:
>
>> dtwright37 > asked in message
>> oups.com...
>> [snip]
>>> Given that, sw, tell me why all Google posts are
>>> without merit. It sounds like predjudice in the pure
>>> sense to me: "You're one of them, therefore you're
>>> unworthy."
>>
>> or, when it breaks...
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/fcbaf
>
>So you're saying you endorse supporting a news provider that is
>responsible for 95% of the spam on Usenet?
>
>WHatever.
>
>-sw


Got any facts to support that 95%? Or is it one of those facts made up
on the spot?


jim

Steve Wertz > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 18:25:06 -0700, The Ranger wrote:
> > dtwright37 > asked in message
oups.com...
> > [snip]
> >> Given that, sw, tell me why all Google posts are
> >> without merit. It sounds like predjudice in the pure
> >> sense to me: "You're one of them, therefore you're
> >> unworthy."
> >
> > or, when it breaks...
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/fcbaf
>
> So you're saying you endorse supporting a news
> provider that is responsible for 95% of the spam
> on Usenet?

That's an incredible "fact" you're laying down on the table. You
either have a shitty news provider or can't perform simple
statistics. Either way, follow through with your threat or shut up
about it already. It gets old hearing the same grunts and groans
pouring out like so much diahreah from the same shithead.

> WHatever.

Yep, 'xactly.

The Ranger

Steve Wertz wrote:

> 80% of the posts from Google are pure bullshit. Spam, trolls,
> and stupid people. The 20% legitimate posts aren't worth the
> hassle of keeping Google out of the killfile.
>
> -sw

Then I say, don't talk about it, just do it, Steve!

David

Steve Wertz > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 12:57:33 -0700, The Ranger wrote:
> > That's an incredible "fact" you're laying down on the table. You
> > either have a shitty news provider or can't perform simple
> > statistics. Either way, follow through with your threat or shut
up
> > about it already. It gets old hearing the same grunts and groans
> > pouring out like so much diahreah from the same shithead.
>
> Yet you have no problem reading (or ignoring) 200 spam email
> messages from Google a month compared to my 5 or 6
> regarding spam and kill-filing Google.

I don't get 5 or 6 spam period per six months. Like I said, you're
tilting at the wrong windmill there Don...

> Sounds like you're taking your frustrations with
> Google out on me.

Yeah, I'm taking out my frustrations but Google isn't the source.

BTW: My windmill is still Webtv.

The Ranger

On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 21:14:19 GMT, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:26:00 -0700, ensenadajim wrote:
>
>> Got any facts to support that 95%? Or is it one of those facts made up
>> on the spot?
>
>Yes. Like I said - I'm keeping track by scoring the Googleposts.
>While that percentage is much lower in RFC (where I have you
>killfiled, and very soon here, too), in the other (mostly local)
>groups the spam is above 95%.
>
>Now, off with your head.
>
>-sw


As you have been incapable of kill filinmg me correctly, it is
doubtful you would know whay to use to cut off my head let alone wield
it. Watch out for your own toes!


jim

Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> This note is directed to real experts in Mexican/American food. All others
> please simply read and learn.
>
While I am not an expert, and usually learn when things are going well
in this group, I have saved stuff from the years I have followed the
group and occasionally contributed. I have a recipe for birria that was
posted here years ago, I believe by a contributor with whom many had
issues, but who did have good recipes at times. For what it's worth, it
follows. By the way, good to see David back.

Birria de Jallisco II

Ingredients:
1.1 lbs goat or pork meat
1.1 lbs goat or pork leg (the lower part, where the calves are)
1.1 lbs goat or pork ribs
2 arbol peppers (substitute japanese peppers or small hot dry peppers)
seeded
2 pasilla peppers, seeded
3 ancho peppers, seeded
3 garlic cloves
5 allspice
1/4 tsp thyme
1/4 tsp oregano
1/4 tsp ginger
1/2 tsp sesame seeds
juice of two oranges (sour oranges are better)
1 cup of good vinegar
salt to taste
2 tsps marjoran to cook the meat

For the broth:
1.6 lbs tomatoes, roasted, peeled and seeded
1/2 large white onion
1 garlic cloves
1 tsp oregano
2 Tbsp lard or corn oil
2.5 qt chicken broth

To serve:
minced onion, dry oregano, limes, hot sauce (see below)

Procedu
Soak the peppers in hot water for 10 minutes. Blend them with the
spices, oj and vinegar, strain and season with salt.
Put the meat in a dutch oven, cover with the sauce and refrigerate
overnight.
Cook in low heat with the marjoran until tender. Move to the oven at 400
F to brown. Cut in pieces and serve with tortillas, minced onion, limes
and hot sauce, or also with the broth (below) with oregano.

For the broth:
Blend the tomatoes with onion, garlic, oregano and strain. Sautee in hot
lard until well seasoned, add broth and simmer for 10 minutes.

For the hot sauce:
Toast 3.5 oz of arbol peppers (small, very hot dry peppers), seed them
and blend with 1 cup of water, 1/2 cup white vinegar and salt.