Carne salata vergellata
 

I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the "vergellata"?
Thank you very much for your time.

--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

> I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
> vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
> "salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
> about the "vergellata"?

Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

Carne salata vergellata
 

On 2 Jun 2004 15:50:22 GMT, (bogus address)
wrote:

>
>> I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
>> vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
>> "salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
>> about the "vergellata"?
>
>Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?
>
Going by a bit of googling, I get the impression that this is a sort
of pancetta or bacon type of meat (i do not know if it is pork,
sorry), salted, indeed, and striated with the meat and fat.

Not 100% accurate, to be sure, but perhaps a bit of a clue to further
your search.

Boron

Carne salata vergellata
 

A web search on "vergellata" brings up a large number of prints down on
"vergellata paper" (or carte vergellata). Perhaps this is something baked
in parchment?

toodles, gretchen

--On Wednesday, June 02, 2004 3:50 PM +0000 bogus address
> wrote:

>
>> I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
>> vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
>> "salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
>> about the "vergellata"?
>
> Something in the brawn/potted-haugh/potted-heid/head-cheese family?
>
> ========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce
> <======== Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22
> 4PU; 0131 6604760 <http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food
> intolerance data & recipes, Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music
> files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.
>

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:
>>> I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
>>> vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is
>>> "salted meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me
>>> about the "vergellata"?
>Going by a bit of googling, I get the impression that this is a sort
>of pancetta or bacon type of meat (i do not know if it is pork,
>sorry), salted, indeed, and striated with the meat and fat.
>Not 100% accurate, to be sure, but perhaps a bit of a clue to further
>your search.

Yes, I found that, too. The word "vergellata" seems to apply only to meat
and to papermaking. I also found "carta vergellata," which seems to be a
sort of heavy stock made in former times to be used for lithographs,
aquarelles, and the like.

Unfortunately, the <Grande Dizionario della Lingua Italiana> is not yet up
to the letter "V" -- at least the set to which I have access -- so that
avenue is out.

I have tried one or two Italian delicatessens with no result. The meat
people respond "Huh" when I ask for "carne salata vergellata."

Can some kind soul tell me what "vergellata" actually means?

Thanks


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

Carne salata vergellata
 

In ,
The Bibliographer wrote :

> I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
> vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
> meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the
> "vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.

From : CRISTOFORO MESSISBUGO secolo XVI
quoted in http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro

So salted meat streaked of fat and lean, sorry my english isn't quite up to
date.

--
Salutations, greetings,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Carne salata vergellata
 

"Christophe Bachmann" > wrote

> > I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne
salata
> > vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"
is "salted
> > meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about
the
> > "vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.

> quoted in
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
> Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
> So salted meat streaked of fat and lean

I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?

"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
bacon" in English.

Where's Pastorio?

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article > ,
deiusenet > wrote:
(The Bibliographer) wrote in
:
>> Can some kind soul tell me what "vergellata" actually means?
>Could it possibly be sliced paper-thin? Like prosciutto? What is the
>recipe like?

No, I don't think so. The meat is not adjectivally limited by the quality
of paper, but rather both the meat and the paper are limited by the
quality of "vergellata" -- at least that is how I construe the examples.

Here is the recipe:

Piglia li peselli con le scorze come stanno & falli dare uno boglio, &
togli carne salata vergellata & tagliala in fette sottili et lunghe mezo
dito, & frigile uno pocho & dipoi mettili idetti peselli aquocere con la
dicta carne & ponivi uno pocho di agresto, uno pocho di sabba, o zucharo &
uno pocho di chanella & similemente si frigano li fasoli.

The orthography and usage is fifteenth century.

The critical point is, I think, defining the adjective "vergellata" as it
applies to salted meat (rather than "bacon" or "pancetta").

Thanks for any help.


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Christophe Bachmann > wrote:
>From : CRISTOFORO MESSISBUGO secolo XVI
>quoted in http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
>Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
>So salted meat streaked of fat and lean, sorry my english isn't quite up to
>date.

So "vergellata" stems in common with "vergata" (streaked, lined)!

I can see how modern American bacon can be so described. Perhaps that is
it, indeed -- although I still wonder about the constructional
relationship between the Renaissance and the modern Italian words.

Thanks.

--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Opinicus > wrote:
>"Christophe Bachmann" > wrote
>> > I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
>> > vergellata."
>> quoted in
>http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
>> Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
>> So salted meat streaked of fat and lean

>I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
>dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?

I know -- I tried all of them I could find.

>"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
>and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
>bacon" in English.

Off to find more about streaky bacon.

Thanks.
--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

Opinicus wrote:

> "Christophe Bachmann" > wrote
>
>
>>>I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne
>
> salata
>
>>>vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"
>
> is "salted
>
>>>meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about
>
> the
>
>>>"vergellata"? Thank you very much for your time.
>
>>quoted in
>
> http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
>
>>Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
>>So salted meat streaked of fat and lean
>
> I couldn't find "vergellata" in any online Italian
> dictionary. Is the word related to "vergata"?
>
> "Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
> and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
> bacon" in English.
>
> Where's Pastorio?

"Vergata" comes closest to "layered" as in geology, or "laid" as in
papermaking. So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
fat and lean strata.

Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US. Canadian
bacon is a different, equally lovely creature.

Pastorio

Carne salata vergellata
 

On 1 Jun 2004 18:02:50 -0400, (The Bibliographer)
wrote:

>
>I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
>vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
>meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the "vergellata"?
>Thank you very much for your time.

>>So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
>> fat and lean strata.

>> Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US.

For Italian adjectives, you want to look up the masculine singular
forms, not the feminine forms (or any plural ones). So, vergellato
(masculine) instead of vergelleta (feminine) or vergellati (masculine
plural) or vergellate (feminine plural).

If you google that word, vergellato, you'll find this page:
http://www.emmeti.it/Cucina/Lazio/St...RT.107.it.html

which is quite dense, but it mentions

"ponendovi quattro lardelli di presciutto vergellato (= vergato di
grasso e di magro) per ciascun pezzo"

Place 4 slices of prosciutto vergellato (= streaked with fat and lean)
per each piece.

(a lardello means slice or rasher, always referring to fat, or to what
we would call loosely, bacon)

Though vergellato is probably from a verb such as vergellare, that
doesn't help me as I don't know what vergellare means, either. I think
you're right about it being an older word.

All this is just to say I think everybody is on the right track,
though someone on it.hobby.cucina could probably pin the term right
down.

I think the Italian word that people might use today for streaky might
be something like "lardellato", perhaps.

Carne salata vergellata
 

"Randal Oulton" > wrote

> For Italian adjectives, you want to look up the masculine
singular
> forms, not the feminine forms (or any plural ones). So,
vergellato
> (masculine) instead of vergelleta (feminine) or vergellati
(masculine
> plural) or vergellate (feminine plural).

Ah, the demon of grammatical gender strikes again. As a
former Latin teacher I should have remembered this.

Here's a very interesting page Google fetched up on
"vergellato"

"Five stuffing recipes from 16th century Italian texts"
http://www.geocities.com/helewyse/stuffing.html

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Carne salata vergellata
 

My Italian girlfriend doesn't know the word, nor do any of her fairly
substantial dictionaries of the current language.

I'll be in a good library on monday; if it's still a mystery then, I'll
see what I can find.

Lazarus

Ps. We could do with a few Italian members on this newsgroup. And maybe
some French, Lebanese or Egyptian and Chinese folk. Would save a lot
of bother.

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Lazarus Cooke > wrote:
>I'll be in a good library on monday; if it's still a mystery then, I'll
>see what I can find.

As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date <Grade Dizionario della
Lingua Italiana>, I would be grateful if you could check if the set is up
to the "V"'s. Thanks.


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >, The Bibliographer
> wrote:

> As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
> lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date <Grade Dizionario della
> Lingua Italiana>, I would be grateful if you could check if the set is up
> to the "V"'s. Thanks.

It doesn't add much to our knowledge. I add one of the definitions of
'Veregella' simply for academic interest. (There may be spelling
mistakes in the Martino excerpt. My Italian girlfriend tells me it
looks damn poor Italian to her, but it's very old).

Grande dizionario della Lingua Italiana - Salvatore Battaglia
vol xxi

Vergellata
agg. Gastron. Ant. Che presenta filamenti di grasso (la carne)
Maestro Martino, LXVI-I-131 Togli la carne salata che (sia)
vergellata di grasso e magro insieme, e tagliala in fette, e ponile
accocere ne la padella e non le lassare troppo cocere.
Deriv. da vergella, col suff. del part. pass.

Vergella - sf. Verga di piccole dimensioni, bacchetta, bastoncello
- Figur. Membro virile (anche di animali)

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Lazarus Cooke > wrote:
>In article >, The Bibliographer
> wrote:
>> As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
>> lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date <Grade Dizionario della
>> Lingua Italiana>,
>Grande dizionario della Lingua Italiana - Salvatore Battaglia
>vol xxi
>Vergellata

Thank you many times -- that's just right. Martino's manuscript (Vatican
Urb. Lat. 1203) is my text!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

Carne salata vergellata
 

In article >,
Bob (this one) > wrote:
>Opinicus wrote:
>> "Christophe Bachmann" > wrote
>>>>I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne
>> salata
>>>>vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"
>> is "salted
>>>>meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about
-- snip --
>>>quoted in
>> http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
>>>Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
>>>So salted meat streaked of fat and lean
>>
-- snip --
>>
>> "Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
>> and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
>> bacon" in English.
>>
>"Vergata" comes closest to "layered" as in geology, or "laid" as in
>papermaking. So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
> fat and lean strata.
>
>Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US. Canadian
>bacon is a different, equally lovely creature.

Perhaps the southern US product known as "streak-of-lean" which is like
salt-pork but meatier & not as salty ?? I wouldn't say it sounds like
bacon though, which is smoked & salt or sugar cured pork belly. Pancetta,
I believe, is cured but not smoked, pork belly as well. I don't think
pancetta is a fit either. Perhaps the layering pertains to the curing
method - layering pork belly (keeping with the streaks of fat theme) in a
barrel with salt. Like or as salt-pork, but with a regional name or
method. Or maybe its a product like the beloved Pittsburgh specialty
"chipped, chopped ham"; ie, the saltiest ham you can find, sliced thinner
than paper so it falls to pieces & ends up in a mound that can't be picked
apart unless you have long fingernails & a ton of patience. Sort of like
paper making - pulp + water + adhesive (fat), layer, drain, dry (roughly).

Carne salata vergellata
 

The Bibliographer > wrote:

> Piglia li peselli con le scorze come stanno & falli dare uno boglio,

which is the meaning of this? The round peas or just the sugar peas?

As for the general question: yes, you got very good answers. Vergellata
equals to variegata: 'veined with'

--
lilian

I just came across this post as I was looking for a recipe for carne salata.
I usually order this dish at a restaurant in Valpolicella and my best guess is that vergelatta has nothing to do with the marbelling of the meat
Typically we are talking about a pretty lean piece of beef that has been cured (salata) not necessarily like salted pork but more like beef cured in a similar fashion to gravelox. I am pretty sure it is typical for the lakes region of northern Italy. Not unlike carpaccio, but sliced slightly thicker it is serverd as an appetizer at room temperture and sometimes dressed with some EVOO.
From my experience with Italian food in Italy as well as my somewhat deterioriating fluency in the Italian language I bet you that vergellata pertains to the slicing of the meat (made to look like paper).
Would be interested in hearing back from somebody.
J