Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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Old 05-06-2004, 06:39 AM
The Bibliographer
 
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Default Carne salata vergellata

In article ,
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
I'll be in a good library on monday; if it's still a mystery then, I'll
see what I can find.


As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date Grade Dizionario della
Lingua Italiana, I would be grateful if you could check if the set is up
to the "V"'s. Thanks.


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"

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Old 08-06-2004, 10:26 PM
Lazarus Cooke
 
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Default Carne salata vergellata

In article , The Bibliographer
wrote:

As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date Grade Dizionario della
Lingua Italiana, I would be grateful if you could check if the set is up
to the "V"'s. Thanks.


It doesn't add much to our knowledge. I add one of the definitions of
'Veregella' simply for academic interest. (There may be spelling
mistakes in the Martino excerpt. My Italian girlfriend tells me it
looks damn poor Italian to her, but it's very old).

Grande dizionario della Lingua Italiana - Salvatore Battaglia
vol xxi

Vergellata
agg. Gastron. Ant. Che presenta filamenti di grasso (la carne)
Maestro Martino, LXVI-I-131 Togli la carne salata che (sia)
vergellata di grasso e magro insieme, e tagliala in fette, e ponile
accocere ne la padella e non le lassare troppo cocere.
Deriv. da vergella, col suff. del part. pass.

Vergella - sf. Verga di piccole dimensioni, bacchetta, bastoncello
- Figur. Membro virile (anche di animali)

Lazarus

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Remover the rock from the email address
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Old 09-06-2004, 02:38 AM
The Bibliographer
 
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Default Carne salata vergellata

In article ,
Lazarus Cooke wrote:
In article , The Bibliographer
wrote:
As others have said, it seems to mean "layered with alternating fat and
lean." If you do have access to an up-to-date Grade Dizionario della
Lingua Italiana,

Grande dizionario della Lingua Italiana - Salvatore Battaglia
vol xxi
Vergellata


Thank you many times -- that's just right. Martino's manuscript (Vatican
Urb. Lat. 1203) is my text!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"
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Old 09-06-2004, 07:02 PM
Jodie Kain
 
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Default Carne salata vergellata

In article ,
Bob (this one) wrote:
Opinicus wrote:
"Christophe Bachmann" wrote
I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne

salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata"

is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about

-- snip --
quoted in

http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Stud...dizionario.htm
Vergellata : vergata di grasso e di magro
So salted meat streaked of fat and lean


-- snip --

"Vergata di grasso e di magro/salted meat streaked of fat
and lean" sounds like a version of what we call "streaky
bacon" in English.

"Vergata" comes closest to "layered" as in geology, or "laid" as in
papermaking. So, yes, bacon-looking meats with cross-sections showing
fat and lean strata.

Streaky bacon in Brittania and just plain bacon in the US. Canadian
bacon is a different, equally lovely creature.


Perhaps the southern US product known as "streak-of-lean" which is like
salt-pork but meatier & not as salty ?? I wouldn't say it sounds like
bacon though, which is smoked & salt or sugar cured pork belly. Pancetta,
I believe, is cured but not smoked, pork belly as well. I don't think
pancetta is a fit either. Perhaps the layering pertains to the curing
method - layering pork belly (keeping with the streaks of fat theme) in a
barrel with salt. Like or as salt-pork, but with a regional name or
method. Or maybe its a product like the beloved Pittsburgh specialty
"chipped, chopped ham"; ie, the saltiest ham you can find, sliced thinner
than paper so it falls to pieces & ends up in a mound that can't be picked
apart unless you have long fingernails & a ton of patience. Sort of like
paper making - pulp + water + adhesive (fat), layer, drain, dry (roughly).

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Old 22-06-2004, 04:23 PM
lilian
 
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Default Carne salata vergellata

The Bibliographer wrote:

Piglia li peselli con le scorze come stanno & falli dare uno boglio,


which is the meaning of this? The round peas or just the sugar peas?

As for the general question: yes, you got very good answers. Vergellata
equals to variegata: 'veined with'

--
lilian


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Old 17-05-2009, 04:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1
Smile

I just came across this post as I was looking for a recipe for carne salata.
I usually order this dish at a restaurant in Valpolicella and my best guess is that vergelatta has nothing to do with the marbelling of the meat
Typically we are talking about a pretty lean piece of beef that has been cured (salata) not necessarily like salted pork but more like beef cured in a similar fashion to gravelox. I am pretty sure it is typical for the lakes region of northern Italy. Not unlike carpaccio, but sliced slightly thicker it is serverd as an appetizer at room temperture and sometimes dressed with some EVOO.
From my experience with Italian food in Italy as well as my somewhat deterioriating fluency in the Italian language I bet you that vergellata pertains to the slicing of the meat (made to look like paper).
Would be interested in hearing back from somebody.
J

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bibliographer View Post
I have an old Italian recipe which calls for "carne salata
vergellata." I am fairly certain that the "carne salata" is "salted
meat," but probably not bacon. Can someone tell me about the "vergellata"?
Thank you very much for your time.

--
Regards, Frank Young
703-527-7684
Post Office Box 2793, Kensington, Maryland 20891
"Videmus nunc per speculum in aenigmate... Nunc cognosco ex parte"


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