[xposted to rec.food.historic]

"Doug Lerner" > wrote

> My main question about butter vs margarine has always been
"Why do people
> even think of margarine when they think of butter?"
> It's such a grotesque thing. And doesn't even remind me of
butter.
> Ugh.

Then you would have *loved* it when it was first introduced
on the market. Some states (mostly those with a strong
dairy-farming lobby) passed laws that prohibited margarine
manufacturers from dyeing their margarines yellow to
resemble butter. Have you ever seen undyed margarine? Its
color resembles the pallid skin of a recently dead person.
Margarine manufacturers got around this by putting a little
blob of dye inside the package. You kneaded the package to
work the dye into it. This was a task I was frequently given
as a kid.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Opinicus extrapolated from data available...


>
> Then you would have *loved* it when it was first introduced
> on the market. Some states (mostly those with a strong
> dairy-farming lobby) passed laws that prohibited margarine
> manufacturers from dyeing their margarines yellow to
> resemble butter. Have you ever seen undyed margarine? Its
> color resembles the pallid skin of a recently dead person.
> Margarine manufacturers got around this by putting a little
> blob of dye inside the package. You kneaded the package to
> work the dye into it. This was a task I was frequently given
> as a kid.
>

For those of us who were kids during the war, margarine was the standard
and butter, rarely available in local markets, the exception. I have
contemporaries who, having grown up on margarine, actually find the flavor
of real butter off-putting, and swear by Parkay and Bluebonnet.

Modern "miracles" do change dining habits (and not just Mr. Bird's Eye and
the Green Giant).. Back during the 50s, aside from Italian restaurants and
the gourmet trade, olive oil use in the US declined substantially, and lard
was highly "ethnicicized", while use of "vegetable" oils (a broadly
enolding term) in homes and restaurants expanded. Dull "white" cornmeal
gave way to violently yellow (maybe dyed to match) commercial varieties.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 09:16:20 +0300, "Opinicus" >
wrote:

>Margarine manufacturers got around this by putting a little
>blob of dye inside the package. You kneaded the package to
>work the dye into it. This was a task I was frequently given
>as a kid.


I did it, too, but well past WWII. We lived in a dairy state, which
was barely willing to allow the stuff in that you had to colour
yourself. Used to be a big deal when someone would go down to Iowa
and smuggle in a whole trunk load of already coloured margarine and
resell it off to all the relatives. I didn't mind the squeeze the dye
stuff, but the powder that you had to cream in to the lard looking goo
was very messy. I have a hunch the colouring had some flavouring in
it, too, but no evidence or specific memory.
--

rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Only a fool would refuse to believe in luck. Only a damn fool would rely on it.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli

See: Gourmet Magazine - June 2004 - pgs. 100,102,105,157

<Alan > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 19 May 2004 09:14:36 -0500, Olivers
> > wrote:
>
> >Opinicus extrapolated from data available...
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Then you would have *loved* it when it was first introduced
> >> on the market. Some states (mostly those with a strong
> >> dairy-farming lobby) passed laws that prohibited margarine
> >> manufacturers from dyeing their margarines yellow to
> >> resemble butter. Have you ever seen undyed margarine? Its
> >> color resembles the pallid skin of a recently dead person.
> >> Margarine manufacturers got around this by putting a little
> >> blob of dye inside the package. You kneaded the package to
> >> work the dye into it. This was a task I was frequently given
> >> as a kid.
> >>
> >
> >For those of us who were kids during the war, margarine was the standard
> >and butter, rarely available in local markets, the exception. I have
> >contemporaries who, having grown up on margarine, actually find the
flavor
> >of real butter off-putting, and swear by Parkay and Bluebonnet.
> >
> Ah, Parkay and Bluebonnet!
>
> I love butter, but during WWII, I begged to be the one to
> knead the color into the white blob of margarine.
>
> And, then, although we ran a dairy farm, we couldn't really
> afford butter, so we lived on Parkay and Bluebonnet.
>
> I'll have to buy some of each to see if I've really been
> missing anything in all these years of eating butter!

You will need to be very careful. Most of what looks like margarine isn't.
Even Parkay and Bluebonnet. Check the package carefully to see if it
specifically mentions it is margarine or oleomargarine. Most of what is
available is actually fake margarine. Also keep in mind that margarines and
fake margarines (hydrogenated fats) are much worse for you than butter fat.

Charlie

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
>
> You will need to be very careful. Most of what looks like margarine isn't.
> Even Parkay and Bluebonnet. Check the package carefully to see if it
> specifically mentions it is margarine or oleomargarine. Most of what is
> available is actually fake margarine. Also keep in mind that margarines
and
> fake margarines (hydrogenated fats) are much worse for you than butter
fat.
>
> Charlie


Charlie,

Real margarine? Fake margarine? This is news to me. What exactly IS
margarine? I thought it was just whatever fat you used as a substitute for
butter, but apparently I was wrong...

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
>
> You will need to be very careful. Most of what looks like margarine isn't.
> Even Parkay and Bluebonnet. Check the package carefully to see if it
> specifically mentions it is margarine or oleomargarine. Most of what is
> available is actually fake margarine. Also keep in mind that margarines
and
> fake margarines (hydrogenated fats) are much worse for you than butter
fat.
>
> Charlie


Charlie,

Real margarine? Fake margarine? This is news to me. What exactly IS
margarine? I thought it was just whatever fat you used as a substitute for
butter, but apparently I was wrong...

I heard somewhere that modern hydrogenated fats and oils in margarine
are chemically so similar to plastic that the difference is one
molecule, which is why those kinds of oils are so hard to clean out of
plastic containers especially after heating: they bond chemically with
the container.

Butter has lots of cholestrol but at least it isn't plastic! I sometimes
make my own from heavy whipping cream, shaken in a jar. Freshest
unsalted butter you can have!

phbp

I heard somewhere that modern hydrogenated fats and oils in margarine
are chemically so similar to plastic that the difference is one
molecule, which is why those kinds of oils are so hard to clean out of
plastic containers especially after heating: they bond chemically with
the container.

Butter has lots of cholestrol but at least it isn't plastic! I sometimes
make my own from heavy whipping cream, shaken in a jar. Freshest
unsalted butter you can have!

phbp

Patrick Porter wrote:

> I heard somewhere that modern hydrogenated fats and oils in margarine
> are chemically so similar to plastic that the difference is one
> molecule, which is why those kinds of oils are so hard to clean out of
> plastic containers especially after heating: they bond chemically with
> the container.

Sorta, but bad chemistry. That "one molecule" thing is terribly
misleading.

Pastorio

> Butter has lots of cholestrol but at least it isn't plastic! I sometimes
> make my own from heavy whipping cream, shaken in a jar. Freshest
> unsalted butter you can have!
>
> phbp
>

"Ernie Sty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
> hlink.net...
> >
> >
> > You will need to be very careful. Most of what looks like margarine
isn't.
> > Even Parkay and Bluebonnet. Check the package carefully to see if it
> > specifically mentions it is margarine or oleomargarine. Most of what is
> > available is actually fake margarine. Also keep in mind that margarines
> and
> > fake margarines (hydrogenated fats) are much worse for you than butter
> fat.
> >
> > Charlie
>
>
> Charlie,
>
> Real margarine? Fake margarine? This is news to me. What exactly IS
> margarine? I thought it was just whatever fat you used as a substitute
for
> butter, but apparently I was wrong...

Here is a good description. Just to add to it, many "margarines" nowadays
also contain a lot of water which changes its cooking properties. Those that
are labeled as margarine, should be the real deal.

Charlie

margarine
[MAHR-juh-rihn, MAHRJ-rihn]
Developed in the late 1800s as a butter substitute, margarine (which is less
expensive but not as flavorful as butter) is made with vegetable oils. In
order for margarine to become solid, the oil must undergo a chemical
transformation known as hydrogenation — indicated as hydrogenated (or
partially hydrogenated) oils on a label. During hydrogenation, extra
hydrogen atoms are pumped into unsaturated fat, a process that creates TRANS
FATTY ACIDS and converts the mixture into a saturated fat, thereby
obliterating any benefits it had as a polyunsaturate. Some researchers
believe that hydrogenated oils may actually be more damaging than regular
saturated fats for those limiting cholesterol in their diets, but the jury's
still out on that debate. Those margarines lowest in cholesterol are made
from a high percentage of polyunsaturated canola, safflower or corn oil. To
make this butter substitute taste and look more like the real thing, cream
or milk is often added. Food coloring, preservatives, emulsifiers and
vitamins A and D are also common additives. Careful label scrutiny is
advised because the ingredients affect everything from flavor to texture to
nutritive value. Regular margarine must contain 80 percent fat. The
remaining 20 percent consists of liquid, coloring, flavoring and other
additives. Margarine is available salted and unsalted. So are
butter-margarine blends, which are usually proportioned 40 to 60 percent
respectively. Soft margarine is made with all vegetable oils (no animal
fats) and remains soft and spreadable when cold. Whipped margarine has had
air (which sometimes can equal half the volume) beaten into it, making it
fluffy and easy to spread. Because of the added air, it cannot be
substituted for regular margarine in baked goods. So-called liquid margarine
is soft enough to be squeezable when cold and comes in pliable bottles made
specifically for that purpose. It's convenient for basting and for foods
such as corn on the cob and waffles. There are also many reduced-fat
margarines on the market today. These products range from about 25 percent
to 65 percent less fat than regular margarine. There's even fat-free
margarine, the ingredients of which include gelatin, rice starch and
lactose. The first ingredient listed on reduced-fat margarine labels is
water , which means they can't be substituted for regular margarine for
baking and frying, and which also means they can make toast soggy. Margarine
comes in 1-pound packages — either in 4 (4-ounce) sticks or in 2 (8-ounce)
tubs. It's also available in 1-pound tubs. All margarine readily absorbs
flavors and therefore should be wrapped airtight for storage. Refrigerate
margarine for up to 2 months; freeze for up to 6 months. In its early days,
margarine was also known as oleomargarine . See also BUTTER; FATS AND OILS;
LABEL TERMS.

© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>
> Here is a good description. Just to add to it, many "margarines" nowadays
> also contain a lot of water which changes its cooking properties. Those
that
> are labeled as margarine, should be the real deal.
>
> Charlie
>
> margarine

Thanks!!

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
ink.net...

>
> Here is a good description. Just to add to it, many "margarines" nowadays
> also contain a lot of water which changes its cooking properties. Those
that
> are labeled as margarine, should be the real deal.
>
> Charlie
>
> margarine

Thanks!!

"Ernie Sty" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >
> > Here is a good description. Just to add to it, many "margarines"
nowadays
> > also contain a lot of water which changes its cooking properties. Those
> that
> > are labeled as margarine, should be the real deal.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > margarine
>
> Thanks!!

You are very welcome Ernie.

Charlie

"Ernie Sty" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Charles Gifford" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >
> > Here is a good description. Just to add to it, many "margarines"
nowadays
> > also contain a lot of water which changes its cooking properties. Those
> that
> > are labeled as margarine, should be the real deal.
> >
> > Charlie
> >
> > margarine
>
> Thanks!!

You are very welcome Ernie.

Charlie

the funny part is, if youv'e made your own butter is almost white.

(GMAJaskol) wrote:

>the funny part is, if youv'e made your own butter is almost white.

Depends on the cow, and the cow's diet.

jenn
--
Jenn Ridley :

"Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
...
> (GMAJaskol) wrote:
>
> >the funny part is, if youv'e made your own butter is almost white.
>
> Depends on the cow, and the cow's diet.
>
> jenn
> --
> Jenn Ridley :

Absolutely correct Jenn. Butter is very dependent on the individual cows,
their diet, their breed, the butter making process used, and the type and
quality of milk used. Of these, for color, the diet is the most important.
The same herd of cattle can produce different color shades of butter
depending on what they are eating seasonally. In most large commercial
operations, especially in the U.S., many thousands of cows are fed a boring
steady diet of feed to produce a homogeneous product. Even butter is often
colored to make it more yellow. In the U.S. butter is almost always lower in
butterfat than European butters - the effect on taste is big.

Just for those who may not be aware, butter is available in 4 different
broad types.

1. Salted sweet [fresh] cream butter. This is the most common in the U.S.
2. Unsalted sweet [fresh] cream butter.
3. Salted soured cream butter.
4. Unsalted soured cream butter.

Soured cream butters are difficult to find in the U.S. The flavor is more
intense and is another one of those things that is up to individual taste.
For Americans, Irish butter is widely available in both sweet and soured
varieties with the soured cream being a little more common. Both have higher
butterfat content than most U.S. butters. French imports of sweet cream
butter (even higher in butterfat) are also available but not as easily
found. There are a few American butters, most especially Pelugra, that
aspire to attain European quality, but, in my opinion, fall short. There are
exceptions! I had butter from a dairy in the Seattle area that had
outstanding high-fat, lightly salted, sweet-cream butter. Unfortunately I
have forgotten the name of the dairy. I am sure that some Sea-Tac resident
can supply the info.

I have already gone on too long, but just one more thing. The ideas that
salt in butter are 1) to cover the taste of bad butter and 2) to preserve
butter are incorrect. The first is just not correct at all and never has
been. The second was correct in the past but is no longer necessary. It is a
matter of taste now. The same thing goes for sweet cream and soured cream
butters. In the past, soured cream butter was often the only option. Now it
is a matter of taste.

Charlie

I can attest to the idea that butter has varying flavors from season to
season: I live in Cow Heaven on the north coast of California---a place
of wide green pastures and tiny daisies where the cows have fed for more
than a century to make high butterfat content milk. I sometimes make my
own butter from local cream (shaken in a mayonnaise jar) The butter from
that milk certainly does taste like the local fields, and it changes
with the seasons.

phbp