Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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Old 18-05-2004, 06:30 AM
Bob (this one)
 
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Default Italian Cuisine

Cookie Cutter wrote:

Frogleg wrote:

On 10 May 2004 11:14:04 GMT, (ASmith1946)
wrote:

It seems to me that we have several interesting threads within
this discussion.


Anyone care to bring polenta to the boil? Another New World
ingredient that's "typically Italian."


Polenta and cornmeal mush are the same thing.


They *can be* the same thing. But they aren't necessarily the same.
Different kinds of corn, processed differently give different finished
results. Different cooking techniques give different results. Some
people hereabouts in Virginia make mush in double boilers. Decidedly
not a traditional Italian approach.

They are both cornmeal and water.


And don't forget the salt. But it's not that simple. Here in the
American south where I live, mush can be made with many different
ingredients like milk, sugar, egg, bacon fat, etc.

My northern Italian family eats polenta that's bare bones yellow corn
meal, water and salt with never another thing added to that basic
formula. Others have their variants, but polenta is typically seen as
a foil for other foods rather than something to stand out on its own.

So polenta is not unique or original to Italy. African countries
that use a lot of corn probably have their own versions.


I don't think anyone said that it was uniquely Italian. Most likely,
anywhere they grow corn has a variation of the basic boiled dried,
cracked corn. According to Gary Jennings in private conversation some
years back, the Aztecs made a gruel from lightly cracked corn simmered
for a long time. I've come to the conclusion that the only thing new
under the sun is "Non-fat coffee cream" (honest. At my sister's house
yesterday).

Fancy Old World polenta has a little parmesan added.


Not necessarily, and not usually.

Fancy New World cornmeal mush has a little cheddar added to the
dish.


I guess it depends on where you live and what the traditions there
are. And don't forget grits (made from hominy rather than plain ground
corn).

Pastorio

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Old 18-05-2004, 02:20 PM
Lazarus Cooke
 
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In article , this one
wrote:

I've come to the conclusion that the only thing new
under the sun is "Non-fat coffee cream" (honest. At my sister's house
yesterday).


I remember years ago seeing a great packet:

"Omlette mixtu just add eggs"

!!!!

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address
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Old 21-05-2004, 01:21 AM
Arri London
 
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bogus address wrote:

I read somewhere just recently that "polenta" was also made from
chestnut flour.
Could easily be true. The French have used chestnut flour to make
purees along the lines of mashed potato. Why not the Italians.
I stayed in a small town north of Verona a few years back and they
had chestnut trees all around. Apparently it was a staple at one
time in the past, though I don't know exactly when.

Probably not all that long ago. They are pretty nutritious I think.
The dried chestnuts in the Chinese shops are pretty good and quite
cheap.


Italian delis in Edinburgh sell chestnut flour, don't they all?

It's a good flour to use for a non-wheat version of malt bread.


Most wholefood shops sell chestnut flour as well. Have never tried it in
baking. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 01-06-2004, 04:50 PM
lilian
 
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ASmith1946 wrote:

The organization I run (www.globaled.org) operates programs in the PRC and we
have a staff member who is Chinese. Then, we work closely with the Chinese
community in New York, and they say the same thing. And then the title of the
Mandarin language version of my previously mentioend tomato book is "fan qui."
That's it.

That's it: but having asked a couple of sinologist (Chinese speakers are
not famous for their controll of pinyin) and a Chinese cook, I mantain
you have a typo on that cover. If you "qui" [sic] has the grass on the
top, the force on the left and the mouth on the right even the Oxford
dictionary gives me plenty on ground and states that I am right. If the
word is, on the other hand, written in a different way, I am quite
curious to know which one it is. Could you please post a link to the
Chinese character?

--
lilian
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Old 01-06-2004, 09:06 PM
ASmith1946
 
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Lillian:

There is a typo, not on the cover, but in my post. It should have been "Fan
Qie," not "Fan Qui."

If you really must have the Chinese characters, go into OCLC, search under my
name and the Engliah title of the book: "The Tomato in America." Enjoy!

OCLC's transliteration of the title page is below.

Andy Smith

Fan qie =
The tomato in America /
Andrew F Smith; Qifen Xu

2000 Chu ban.
Chinese Book 241 p. ; ill. ; 20 cm.
Taibei Shi : Lan jing chu pan you xian gong si, ; ISBN: 9579748047 (pbk.) :

That's it: but having asked a couple of sinologist (Chinese speakers are
not famous for their controll of pinyin) and a Chinese cook, I mantain
you have a typo on that cover. If you "qui" [sic] has the grass on the
top, the force on the left and the mouth on the right even the Oxford
dictionary gives me plenty on ground and states that I am right. If the
word is, on the other hand, written in a different way, I am quite
curious to know which one it is. Could you please post a link to the
Chinese character?

--
lilian








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