Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-03-2004, 07:02 PM
Charlie Sorsby
 
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Default Lobster

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
[... discussion of how someone first tried various foods. ...]
= How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
= molded cheddar to the supermarket?

Interesting question. I've wondered about cheese mold. Is all
cheese mold safe to eat or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?


--
Kind regards,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965

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Old 14-03-2004, 09:40 PM
Lazarus Cooke
 
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In article , Charlie Sorsby
wrote:
Is all
cheese mold safe to eat
or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?


For all practical purposes both cheese mold and bread mold is safe.
(although theres an area of uncertainty if you're a pregnant woman).

But of course we like some molds, others we don't like. It requires
quite a lot of skill (and experience) to make things go moldy in a way
that we'll like. So, in the caves where Roquefort cheese is aged, they
leave loaves of bread scattered around. These become very moldy and
encourage the spread of the spores of the mold that is wanted to make
the cheese taste good.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address
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Old 15-03-2004, 12:05 AM
Arri London
 
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Charlie Sorsby wrote:

In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
[... discussion of how someone first tried various foods. ...]
= How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
= molded cheddar to the supermarket?

Interesting question. I've wondered about cheese mold. Is all
cheese mold safe to eat or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?

--
Kind regards,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby


If the cheese is a natural cheese, without other preservatives,
synthetic gums or oils etc, then the mould is harmless. Just cut it off.

Don't think I'd want to mess with any mould that grows on those plastic
cheese slices or Velveeta.
  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-03-2004, 05:59 PM
Christophe Bachmann
 
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Default Lobster


"Lazarus Cooke" a écrit dans le message de
om...
In article , Charlie Sorsby
wrote:
Is all
cheese mold safe to eat
or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?


For all practical purposes both cheese mold and bread mold is safe.
(although theres an area of uncertainty if you're a pregnant woman).

But of course we like some molds, others we don't like. It requires
quite a lot of skill (and experience) to make things go moldy in a way
that we'll like. So, in the caves where Roquefort cheese is aged, they
leave loaves of bread scattered around. These become very moldy and
encourage the spread of the spores of the mold that is wanted to make
the cheese taste good.


If I may expand a little, they do not 'leave loaves of bread scattered
around', they specially bake rye bread loaves and put them in the vents
that bring air to the caves after inoculating them so that they slowly mold
away and cast a regular stream of spores through the air.


Lazarus


--
Salutations, greetings,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald
Chris CII, Rennes, France




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Old 20-03-2004, 07:03 PM
Lazarus Cooke
 
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Default Lobster

In article , Christophe Bachmann
wrote:


But of course we like some molds, others we don't like. It requires
quite a lot of skill (and experience) to make things go moldy in a way
that we'll like. So, in the caves where Roquefort cheese is aged, they
leave loaves of bread scattered around. These become very moldy and
encourage the spread of the spores of the mold that is wanted to make
the cheese taste good.


If I may expand a little, they do not 'leave loaves of bread scattered
around', they specially bake rye bread loaves and put them in the vents
that bring air to the caves after inoculating them so that they slowly mold
away and cast a regular stream of spores through the air.


They must have tidied up since I was last there.



Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address
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Old 25-03-2004, 10:40 PM
Mark Zanger
 
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All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
back.

Of course, some people are allergic to molds.


--
-Mark H. Zanger
author, The American History Cookbook, The American Ethnic Cookbook for
Students
www.ethnicook.com
www.historycook.com


"Charlie Sorsby" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Frogleg wrote:
[... discussion of how someone first tried various foods. ...]
= How is it we treasure aged Stilton, and return packages of
= molded cheddar to the supermarket?

Interesting question. I've wondered about cheese mold. Is all
cheese mold safe to eat or are there some that are not (as you
commented about bread molds)?


--
Kind regards,

Charlie "Older than dirt" Sorsby Edgewood, NM "I'm the NRA!"
www.swcp.com/~crs USA Life Member since 1965



  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-03-2004, 10:45 PM
Lazarus Cooke
 
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In article [email protected]_s04, Mark Zanger
wrote:

All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
back.

Of course, some people are allergic to molds.


Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
exception of peanut are consdered safe.

Lazarus

--
Remover the rock from the email address
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Old 27-03-2004, 02:39 AM
bogus address
 
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Default Lobster


All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a
few years back.
Of course, some people are allergic to molds.

Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
exception of peanut are consdered safe.


Nobody who's looked at the literature in the last 20 years would consider
that way. Aflatoxin grows pretty well in maize, in which form it carries
through into the milk of corn-fed cattle, as the only slightly less toxic
substance aflatoxin-M. This is the one responsible for most aflatoxin
outbreaks in the US; aflatoxin on peanuts is mainly a problem when the
nuts are stored in tropical conditions, no growing area in the US gets
hot enough.

There is also zearalenone (immensely powerful oestrogen analogue; in
pigs it causes bizarre genital deformities in utero and is probably
not much less dangerous for humans), the ergot alkaloids on rye, and
the mycotoxins responsible for Balkan epidemic nephropathy (I forget
the exact death toll for that but in some years it's scarily high).

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

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Old 27-03-2004, 04:15 AM
Bob (this one)
 
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Lazarus Cooke wrote:

In article [email protected]_s04, Mark Zanger
wrote:

All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
back.

Of course, some people are allergic to molds.


Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
exception of peanut are consdered safe.


Ergot on rye?

Pastorio



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Old 28-03-2004, 04:18 PM
Frogleg
 
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On Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:15:47 -0500, "Bob (this one)"
wrote:

Lazarus Cooke wrote:

In article [email protected]_s04, Mark Zanger
wrote:

All molds were thought to be safe, if not always pleasant, until the
discovery of the deadly carcinogenic afflotoxin molds on peanuts a few years
back.

Of course, some people are allergic to molds.


Thanks mark. My understanding is still that all moulds with the
exception of peanut are consdered safe.


Ergot on rye?


Yes.

"Ergot, caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, is a disease of
cereal crops and grasses....Human poisoning was common in Europe in
the Middle Ages when ergoty rye bread was often consumed."

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/pla...ops/pp551w.htm

Ergotamine is an abortifacient and a vaso-constrictor. Ergotamine
tartrate is the primary ingredient of LSD. Ergot poisoning from a
large dose includes convulsions, halucinations and bizarre behaviour.
Smaller repeated doses may result in gangrene.
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Old 29-03-2004, 02:11 AM
bogus address
 
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Default Lobster



"Ergot, caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, is a disease of
cereal crops and grasses....Human poisoning was common in Europe in
the Middle Ages when ergoty rye bread was often consumed."

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/pla...ops/pp551w.htm

Ergotamine is an abortifacient and a vaso-constrictor. Ergotamine
tartrate is the primary ingredient of LSD.


It isn't. It's a chemical from whch LSD can be made. It's commonly
prescribed as an anti-migraine drug; the standard dose is 2mg, which
is 8 times larger than a 1960s-level LSD dose and about 50 times the
LSD dose people usually take these days. That is, if there were any
significant LSD-like effects from ergotamine tartrate there'd be a
lot of migraine sufferers noticing it.

It takes complicated chemical processing to make anything hallucinogenic
from ergotamine, and your own metabolism can't do it. The idea that the
effects of ergot on rye have anything to do with LSD is a 1960s urban
legend. Mouldy rye might well make your fingers and toes drop off with
gangrene, but that's no hallucination. Goodman and Gilman's "The
Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics" describes the toxic effects of
crude ergot in some detail.

You or your source are also mixed up about the abortifacient properties
of ergot. There are several oxytocic chemicals in it; the one used in
obstetrics is ergometrine, which is chemically related to ergotamine but
isn't the same thing.

======== Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce ========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.

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Old 29-03-2004, 04:27 PM
Frogleg
 
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On 29 Mar 2004 01:11:13 GMT, (bogus address)
wrote:



"Ergot, caused by the fungus Claviceps purpurea, is a disease of
cereal crops and grasses....Human poisoning was common in Europe in
the Middle Ages when ergoty rye bread was often consumed."

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/pla...ops/pp551w.htm

Ergotamine is an abortifacient and a vaso-constrictor. Ergotamine
tartrate is the primary ingredient of LSD.


It isn't. It's a chemical from whch LSD can be made. It's commonly
prescribed as an anti-migraine drug; the standard dose is 2mg, which
is 8 times larger than a 1960s-level LSD dose and about 50 times the
LSD dose people usually take these days. That is, if there were any
significant LSD-like effects from ergotamine tartrate there'd be a
lot of migraine sufferers noticing it.


I didn't say ergotamine tartrate *was* LSD; I said it was a primary
ingredient. I *was* wrong about it being an abortifacient -- I seem to
remember that warning from my migraine days. It *is* contraindicated
for pregnant women or those who may become pregnant. Symptoms of
ergotism (ergot poisoning) may include writhing, tremors, convulsions,
hallucinations, and temporary or permanant psychosis. One presumes
medications prescribed for vascular headaches are not *quite* the same
formulation as either LSD or rye bread made from ergoty grain, just
the same as curare and digitalis are both poisons and medications.


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