Historic (rec.food.historic) Discussing and discovering how food was made and prepared way back when--From ancient times down until (& possibly including or even going slightly beyond) the times when industrial revolution began to change our lives.

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schachmal
 
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I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
explain?

J

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jenn Ridley
 
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schachmal > wrote:

>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>explain?


It has *nothing* to do with Philadelphia brand cream cheese.
Philadelphia cream cheese is Kraft's brand name for their cream
cheese. It is the same as the house brand cream cheese.

A Philly cheese steak sandwich has no cream cheese in it. It's got
steak, cheese, and onions.


jenn
--
Jenn Ridley

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Ophelia
 
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I thought that it was named after the city.

Melissa

"schachmal" > wrote in message
...
> I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
> explain?
>
> J
>



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Frogleg
 
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On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
wrote:

>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>explain?


Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
Cheese Whiz processed cheese (sauce). The sandwiches originated in and
are a specialty of Philadelphia restaurants. Thin sandwich steaks on a
sub roll with sauted onions and green peppers and some sort of
meltable cheese.
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jenn Ridley
 
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Frogleg > wrote:

>On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
>wrote:
>
>>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>>explain?

>
>Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
>to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
>Cheese Whiz processed cheese (sauce).


Although it wasn't originally. AFAICT, the original cheese steak
sandwiches had Provolone in them, and perhaps another mild Italian
cheese. The CheezWhiz is a simplification. Many true cheesesteak
fans are distressed by the use of CheezWhiz on a cheesesteak.


jenn
(not from Philly, but there was an intensive discussion of
cheesesteaks on a email list I read.)
--
Jenn Ridley



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Frogleg
 
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:54:48 -0500, Jenn Ridley
> wrote:

>Frogleg > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>>>explain?

>>
>>Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
>>to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
>>Cheese Whiz processed cheese (sauce).

>
>Although it wasn't originally. AFAICT, the original cheese steak
>sandwiches had Provolone in them, and perhaps another mild Italian
>cheese. The CheezWhiz is a simplification. Many true cheesesteak
>fans are distressed by the use of CheezWhiz on a cheesesteak.


I suppose there are very few "authentic" recipes that specify a
particular brand of manufactured processed cheese, although we might
have to designate Campbell's condensed cream of mushroom soup as one
of the major food groups. :-) I haven't been to Philadelphia in
decades, nor have I ever eaten a 'cheese steak'. My comments were
based on reading a *lot* of discussion on the subject, as well as
checking into quite a few recipes. Personally, I'd go for the
provolone, but it *does* appear that Cheese Whiz is quite common.

I searched and experimented for years for the "genuine" delicious
chile con queso recipe served by a New Mexico restaurant only to find
(friend of the owner's family) it was Velveeta-based. So much for
hidalgo heritage. :-)
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bryan J. Maloney
 
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Frogleg > nattered on
m:

> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
> wrote:
>
>>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>>explain?

>
> Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
> to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
> Cheese Whiz


Whiz on cheesesteak? Go back to Ohio, buckeye, boy!

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michel Boucher
 
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Frogleg > wrote in
:

> I suppose there are very few "authentic" recipes that specify a
> particular brand of manufactured processed cheese, although we
> might have to designate Campbell's condensed cream of mushroom
> soup as one of the major food groups. :-)


With the added note that this is only applicable within the US because
making a béchamel is well known outside those boundaries (and I suspect
within as well).

--

"I'm the master of low expectations."

GWB, aboard Air Force One, 04Jun2003
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Olivers
 
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Frogleg muttered....


> I searched and experimented for years for the "genuine" delicious
> chile con queso recipe served by a New Mexico restaurant only to find
> (friend of the owner's family) it was Velveeta-based. So much for
> hidalgo heritage. :-)
>


Since chile con queso was far less Mexican than it was an American (50s?)
interpretation of TexMex food, the original "popular" recipe for the
appetizer and party dip was a clever blend of Velveeta and Rotel brand
canned tomatoes with green chiles.

The closest Mexican dish must have been the Northern Mexican favorite
"queso flameado", sort of a oven melted rarebit with browned crumbled
chorizo atop. Even tortilla chips used in the "dip" fashion seem to have
been unknown in Mexico, where the corn tortilla, torn in to quarters at
middle class tables, served as spoon/dork/shovel, the predecessor of the
schoolkids' spork.

My memory of pre-modern Philly cheesesteaks, 1964-65, vaguely recalls a
white Italian cheese of no great flavor, but then Cheesewhiz's introduction
cannot have occured much if any before 1960 (although it's popularity
climbed rapidly).

The New Orleans roast beef poor boy remains to me a better samitch, and the
"debris" model even better, a classic.

TMO
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Andrew Fenton
 
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Ophelia wrote:

> I thought that it was named after the city.


Steakville? or Cheeseopolis?


> "schachmal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
> > explain?
> >
> > J
> >




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Andrew Fenton
 
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Jenn Ridley wrote:

> Frogleg > wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
> >wrote:
> >
> >>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
> >>explain?

> >
> >Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
> >to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
> >Cheese Whiz processed cheese (sauce).

>
> Although it wasn't originally. AFAICT, the original cheese steak
> sandwiches had Provolone in them, and perhaps another mild Italian
> cheese. The CheezWhiz is a simplification. Many true cheesesteak
> fans are distressed by the use of CheezWhiz on a cheesesteak.


About the composition of a cheese steak many learned individuals have
discussed at great length, and often with much acrimony. On the subject
of cheese, the Whiz fans are often more vociferous than the provolone
partisans; clearly the subject will never be put to rest, and I am of the
opinion that either is fine.

Two further points: first, the *real* Philadelphia sandwich- as opposed
to the cheesesteak, a tourist sandwich- is roast pork with greens
(broccoli rabe or spinach). Which should be made with aged provolone.

Secondly, it's axiomatic that any sandwich described as a "Philadelphia"
or "Philly" cheesesteak will be lousy.

-Andrew

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Alf Christophersen
 
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On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:20:23 -0600, Olivers >
wrote:

>The closest Mexican dish must have been the Northern Mexican favorite
>"queso flameado", sort of a oven melted rarebit with browned crumbled


An ingredient needed in a dish to be real mexican is Salmonella,
giving you the Montezuma revenge effect. Very important component of
all mexican dishes :-)

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dr Pepper
 
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Cheeze Wiz was prefered by many peole eating The Philly Cheese Steak
sandwhich. I tried it, and it just doesn't work for me.
I make PCS's for lunch using thinly sliced roast beef from the deli,
Provolone or Swiss cheese, and leave off the onions.
Cooked or not cooked.
Easy and quick to make, and actually quite good.

and as WC Fields said he wanted on his tombstone, , ,

"Altogether, I'd rather be in Philadfephia"

I've been there, and altogether, I'd rather not be there, It is NOT
the city of brotherly love, although the people are great, the cops
really suck!

================================================== =======



On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:10:09 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> wrote:

>Frogleg > nattered on
om:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>>>explain?

>>
>> Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
>> to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
>> Cheese Whiz

>
>Whiz on cheesesteak? Go back to Ohio, buckeye, boy!


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Olivers
 
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Dr Pepper muttered....

> Cheeze Wiz was prefered by many peole eating The Philly Cheese Steak
> sandwhich. I tried it, and it just doesn't work for me.
> I make PCS's for lunch using thinly sliced roast beef from the deli,
> Provolone or Swiss cheese, and leave off the onions.
> Cooked or not cooked.
> Easy and quick to make, and actually quite good.
>


But but cold roast beef makes it a roast beef and cheese sammitch, miles
removed from a Philly cheesesteak.

.....and at its best, a Philly Cheesesteak is but a poor substitute for a
classic, the "Debris" Po'boy of New Orleans.

.....which is what you eat if the oysters are off.

TMO
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Andrew Fenton
 
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Olivers wrote:

> Dr Pepper muttered....
>
> > Cheeze Wiz was prefered by many peole eating The Philly Cheese Steak
> > sandwhich. I tried it, and it just doesn't work for me.
> > I make PCS's for lunch using thinly sliced roast beef from the deli,
> > Provolone or Swiss cheese, and leave off the onions.
> > Cooked or not cooked.
> > Easy and quick to make, and actually quite good.
> >

>
> But but cold roast beef makes it a roast beef and cheese sammitch, miles
> removed from a Philly cheesesteak.


Agreed. Roast beef is roast beef, not steak.

> ....and at its best, a Philly Cheesesteak is but a poor substitute for a
> classic, the "Debris" Po'boy of New Orleans.


A debris sandwich is a wonderful thing, no question about it. Probably on
average, it's better than the average cheesesteak- if for no other reason
that (to the best of my knowledge) debris hasn't traveled outside of NOLA,
and so hasn't been diluted by overfamiliarity. But a really first-rate
cheesteak, from Tony Luke's, in deep South Philadelphia, can hold its own
against any sandwich you choose.

-Andrew



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ASmith1946
 
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>A debris sandwich is a wonderful...

Andrew:

What a wonderful phrase-- "debris sandwich"!

Andy Smith


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Olivers
 
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ASmith1946 muttered....

>>A debris sandwich is a wonderful...

>
> Andrew:
>
> What a wonderful phrase-- "debris sandwich"!
>
> Andy Smith
>
>
>


"Debris" is a uniquely NewOrleanian sort of thing....all the bits and
pieces left over from carving a slow roasted round or sirloin if beef,
bathed in the "jus" and certainly absorbing more flavor, etc.

TMO
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Andrew Fenton
 
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ASmith1946 wrote:

> What a wonderful phrase-- "debris sandwich"!


No doubt. New Orleans sandwich names are as lyrical as they
are tasty: debris, oyster po'boy, muffuletta...

I like Cajun and Creole food as much or more than the next
guy, but when I visited New Orleans, I ate better at lunch
than at any other meal.

-Andrew

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Dr Pepper
 
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On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 21:29:40 +0100, Alf Christophersen
> wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 20:20:23 -0600, Olivers >
>wrote:
>
>>The closest Mexican dish must have been the Northern Mexican favorite
>>"queso flameado", sort of a oven melted rarebit with browned crumbled

>
>An ingredient needed in a dish to be real mexican is Salmonella,
>giving you the Montezuma revenge effect. Very important component of
>all mexican dishes :-)


True only of the "South of the border" dishes.

The term, , , "Don't drink the water" is law, thats why I always drink
cervesa whey in mexico. If there is no bottled water available I have
even brushed my teeth with beer, and I'm not a big beer drinker.

Ron C.
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Dr Pepper
 
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On Wed, 04 Feb 2004 00:10:09 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> wrote:

>Frogleg > nattered on
om:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 12:05:02 GMT, schachmal >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I think it has something to do with philly cream cheese. Can someone
>>>explain?

>>
>> Philadephia, yes; cream cheese, no. The 'authentic' ingredient seems
>> to often be another Kraft product -- jarred (or presurrized can?)
>> Cheese Whiz

>
>Whiz on cheesesteak? Go back to Ohio, buckeye, boy!


Well, , , ,, ,
These Philly Cheese steak sandwhiches are sold in only two places I
know of, they are accross the street from each other, and are standup
lunch counters where you get them at a counter, and they are all very
messy, and dribble all over the place.

I've forgotten the names of the places, but they are the true
deliverers of the one and only PCS sandwhich.

They are both very good, but I haven't been to Philly since 1986, so I
don't know if theyare still there.

Ron C.
================================================


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Andrew Fenton
 
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Dr Pepper wrote:

>
> Well, , , ,, ,
> These Philly Cheese steak sandwhiches are sold in only two places I
> know of, they are accross the street from each other, and are standup
> lunch counters where you get them at a counter, and they are all very
> messy, and dribble all over the place.
>
> I've forgotten the names of the places, but they are the true
> deliverers of the one and only PCS sandwhich.


It sounds as if you're describing Pat's and Geno's, at the corner of 9th
and Passyunk. Pat's is generally acknowledged as the originator of the
cheesesteak, and these are the places where visiting politicians, etc.,
come to visit when they are in Philadelphia.

But "the one and only cheeesteak"? Arrant nonsense. While important for
historical reasons, these places aren't even close to serving the best
cheesesteaks in Philadelphia.

-Andrew

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