A year or so ago somebody posted an obituary of a veteran American food
writier who had died. She and her husband had been ferocious critics of
Julia Child. I looked for her book then but couldn't find it in one of
my libraries.

I've lost my reference, and my memory is poor. Could someone remind me
who it was?

Lazarus

The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess. Both gone
now.

--Mark Zanger

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote in message
news:270220081755416814%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid...
>A year or so ago somebody posted an obituary of a veteran American food
> writier who had died. She and her husband had been ferocious critics of
> Julia Child. I looked for her book then but couldn't find it in one of
> my libraries.
>
> I've lost my reference, and my memory is poor. Could someone remind me
> who it was?
>
> Lazarus

"Mark Zanger" >

> The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess.

The book can be found on http://www.abebooks.com

Do a search first on the title ("The Taste of America") then refine it with
"Karen Hess" (author). I fetch up 41 copies ranging in price from $2.49 to
$75.00.

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

In article >, Opinicus
> wrote:

> "Mark Zanger" >
>
> > The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess.
>
> The book can be found on http://www.abebooks.com
>
> Do a search first on the title ("The Taste of America") then refine it with
> "Karen Hess" (author). I fetch up 41 copies ranging in price from $2.49 to
> $75.00.

Many thanks, guys.

Lazarus

In fact have just checked and it's in my library now. Quite possibly I
myself suggested it!

L

In article >, Mark Zanger
> wrote:

> The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess. Both gone
> now.

I've just finished reading this wonderful book - utterly fascinating.
I'm very grateful to you for bringing it to my attention. I love the
overall tone, which cheered me up no end.


The library had indeed bought if for me but I shall have to buy a copy
for myself (and also one each for my half-french daughters, who, like
me, have had 'mastering the art' always somewhere to hand).

What do you make of her trenchant views on Ms. Child, who seems to be
fairly well thought of on fr.rec.cuisine? (I mean as a cook, not as a
person).

Lazarus

On Mon 03 Mar 2008 02:45:08a, Lazarus Cooke told us...

> In article >, Mark Zanger
> > wrote:
>
>> The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess. Both
>> gone now.
>
> I've just finished reading this wonderful book - utterly fascinating.
> I'm very grateful to you for bringing it to my attention. I love the
> overall tone, which cheered me up no end.
>
>
> The library had indeed bought if for me but I shall have to buy a copy
> for myself (and also one each for my half-french daughters, who, like
> me, have had 'mastering the art' always somewhere to hand).
>
> What do you make of her trenchant views on Ms. Child, who seems to be
> fairly well thought of on fr.rec.cuisine? (I mean as a cook, not as a
> person).
>
> Lazarus
>

I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Tuesday, 03(III)/04(IV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
11wks 5dys 5hrs 5mins
-------------------------------------------
Friends may come and go, but enemies
accumulate.
-------------------------------------------

In article 4>, Wayne
Boatwright > wrote:
> >
>
> I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
> seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.

No, definitely not. I'd been a fan for thirty odd years, but the Hess
book's accusations are very convincing. For a flavour (or should that
be flavor?) see some extracts at

http://preview.tinyurl.com/2j87qp

Their main criticisms are that Child is unneccessarily fussy, sets
technique above good, fresh ingredients, and uses far too much flour.

It is a brilliant and, as you'll see if you do a hunt back through this
newsgroup, a seminal book.

It's also, while being very critical of some aspects of modern America,
particularly ** and admirably ** American in its no-nonsense
robustness.

Lazarus

On Wed 05 Mar 2008 03:31:56a, Lazarus Cooke told us...

> In article 4>, Wayne
> Boatwright > wrote:
>> >
>>
>> I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
>> seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.
>
> No, definitely not. I'd been a fan for thirty odd years, but the Hess
> book's accusations are very convincing. For a flavour (or should that
> be flavor?) see some extracts at
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/2j87qp
>
> Their main criticisms are that Child is unneccessarily fussy, sets
> technique above good, fresh ingredients, and uses far too much flour.

Again, without having read the book, I totally disagree with the above. I
don't think anyone can be unneccessarily fussy in the kitchen. Technique
is all important, and I believe Child always stressed fresh ingredients.
Flour is a variable in many uses.

Perhaps I'll take a look at the excerpt or the book, but I doubt it will
change my mind about Child.

> It is a brilliant and, as you'll see if you do a hunt back through this
> newsgroup, a seminal book.
>
> It's also, while being very critical of some aspects of modern America,
> particularly ** and admirably ** American in its no-nonsense
> robustness.
>
> Lazarus
>



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 03(III)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
11wks 3dys 5mins
-------------------------------------------
The weak shall inhibit the earth.
-------------------------------------------

I read the book when it came out, and made friends with several of the
anti-Child examples, including Madeleine Kamman. Here in Boston, people were
divided into Child and Kamman factions for a while.

At the time I felt Child had four disadvantages: She wasn't French, she
wasn't a chef, she hadn't really learned cooking until almost 30, and her
style of French cooking was not the latest thing in France. (I later was
involved in a banquet based on Child's favorite French cookbook and model,
the Book of Cuisine of Madame E. Saint-Ange, now in English translation by
Paul Aratow, and learned how much of her cooking is based on 19th century
bourgois cuisine.)

I came to respect Child's openness to good ideas and good people.

Kamman was and is all the things that Child is not -- French, a chef,
working in her aunt's restaurant from adolescence, and up with the latest
things. Interestingly, her influence in Boston has almost died out, while
Boston is full of French bistros that feature the stuff Child was televising
the in the 60s and 70s.

I think a useful midpoint is Richard Olney. When I cook French food now, I
look first to his work, then -- if I have time -- to Kamman. Of Child, I
actually cook more of her later American food. My favorite of her books now
is Cooking with the Master Chefs. Her early stuff is both excessively
detailed and too full of compromises about ingredients that we no longer
need to make -- in large part because of the movement Julia Child helped
create!

Her legacy is that she helped everyone else, perhaps more than her own work.

Karen Hess's legacy is completely different, and it is, I think, to restart
food history on more scholarly basis. The Hess's also have a legacy in the
greenmarket movement that is really the beginnings of local-vorism in the
US. Karen Hess wrote a series of cooking columns for the Village Voice --
she mailed me a few, but I hope they are collected into a book.

--Mark Zanger

"Lazarus Cooke" > wrote in message
news:030320080945086109%lazaruscooke@britishlibrar y.invalid...
> In article >, Mark Zanger
> > wrote:
>
>> The book is The Taste of America by Karen Hess and John L. Hess. Both
>> gone
>> now.
>
> I've just finished reading this wonderful book - utterly fascinating.
> I'm very grateful to you for bringing it to my attention. I love the
> overall tone, which cheered me up no end.
>
>
> The library had indeed bought if for me but I shall have to buy a copy
> for myself (and also one each for my half-french daughters, who, like
> me, have had 'mastering the art' always somewhere to hand).
>
> What do you make of her trenchant views on Ms. Child, who seems to be
> fairly well thought of on fr.rec.cuisine? (I mean as a cook, not as a
> person).
>
> Lazarus

Many thanks, Mark, for all this info, and for introducing me to this
fascinating discussion.

Lazaru

In article 4>, Wayne
Boatwright > wrote:


>
> I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
> seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.

I must admit that, since reading the Hesses, I've noticed more and more
examples of Child's rather heavy cooking. For example, this evening
I've making making a leek and potato soup (with watercress).

Just for myself.

Child gives equal amounts of leek and potato: the Larousee
Gastronomique gives three times as much leek as potato.

I much prefer the LG version.

Lazarus

On Mon 31 Mar 2008 12:28:22p, Lazarus Cooke told us...

> In article 4>, Wayne
> Boatwright > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
>> seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.
>
> I must admit that, since reading the Hesses, I've noticed more and more
> examples of Child's rather heavy cooking. For example, this evening
> I've making making a leek and potato soup (with watercress).
>
> Just for myself.
>
> Child gives equal amounts of leek and potato: the Larousee
> Gastronomique gives three times as much leek as potato.
>
> I much prefer the LG version.
>
> Lazarus
>

I guess I prefer heavy cooking. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Thursday, 04(IV)/03(III)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
7wks 3dys 2hrs
-------------------------------------------
Dying can be hazardous to your health.
-------------------------------------------

Don't look at Taste of America if you don't want to read a critic of Julia
Child. Soften yourself up with Karen Hess's American edition of the
Elizabeth David Bread Book, an utter classic and full of fussy detail. Then
try her edition of The Virginia Housewife, her favorite 19th century
American cookbook and the sort of thing she contrasted Child to.


--
-Mark Zanger, author
The American Ethnic Cookbook for Students
www.ethnicook.com
The American History Cookbook
www.historycook.com


"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
3.184...
> On Wed 05 Mar 2008 03:31:56a, Lazarus Cooke told us...
>
>> In article 4>, Wayne
>> Boatwright > wrote:
>>> >
>>>
>>> I have not ready anything by this author, but I think anyone who is
>>> seriously critical of Julia Child as a cook should be seriously ignored.
>>
>> No, definitely not. I'd been a fan for thirty odd years, but the Hess
>> book's accusations are very convincing. For a flavour (or should that
>> be flavor?) see some extracts at
>>
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/2j87qp
>>
>> Their main criticisms are that Child is unneccessarily fussy, sets
>> technique above good, fresh ingredients, and uses far too much flour.
>
> Again, without having read the book, I totally disagree with the above. I
> don't think anyone can be unneccessarily fussy in the kitchen. Technique
> is all important, and I believe Child always stressed fresh ingredients.
> Flour is a variable in many uses.
>
> Perhaps I'll take a look at the excerpt or the book, but I doubt it will
> change my mind about Child.
>
>> It is a brilliant and, as you'll see if you do a hunt back through this
>> newsgroup, a seminal book.
>>
>> It's also, while being very critical of some aspects of modern America,
>> particularly ** and admirably ** American in its no-nonsense
>> robustness.
>>
>> Lazarus
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright
> -------------------------------------------
> Thursday, 03(III)/06(VI)/08(MMVIII)
> -------------------------------------------
> Countdown till Memorial Day
> 11wks 3dys 5mins
> -------------------------------------------
> The weak shall inhibit the earth.
> -------------------------------------------
>
>

On Fri 04 Apr 2008 08:11:43p, Mark Zanger told us...

> Don't look at Taste of America if you don't want to read a critic of
> Julia Child. Soften yourself up with Karen Hess's American edition of
> the Elizabeth David Bread Book, an utter classic and full of fussy
> detail. Then try her edition of The Virginia Housewife, her favorite
> 19th century American cookbook and the sort of thing she contrasted
> Child to.
>
>

I think I'll just avoid all of it. :-) But, thanks for the suggestions.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Friday, 04(IV)/04(IV)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
Countdown till Memorial Day
7wks 2dys 3hrs 10mins
-------------------------------------------
Reformat Hard Drive! Are you SURE (Y/Y)?
-------------------------------------------

In article 4>, Wayne
Boatwright > wrote:

> On Fri 04 Apr 2008 08:11:43p, Mark Zanger told us...
>
> > Don't look at Taste of America if you don't want to read a critic of
> > Julia Child. Soften yourself up with Karen Hess's American edition of
> > the Elizabeth David Bread Book, an utter classic and full of fussy
> > detail. Then try her edition of The Virginia Housewife, her favorite
> > 19th century American cookbook and the sort of thing she contrasted
> > Child to.
> >
> >
>
> I think I'll just avoid all of it. :-) But, thanks for the suggestions.

Oh well. I'm sad when people choose not to find out more.

But I suppose the NG motto is De gustibus disputandum est.

I at least shall explore these, and, once again, thanks, Mark, for
introducing me to a whole new area of research, and a whole new way of
analysing French cooking.

Lazarus