On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:42:29 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> wrote:

>Richard Wright > nattered on
om:
>.
>
>Interesting--but are there any non-grape brandies?

Depends....

Some define the term solely in terms of the grape,
while other are less strict. If you adhere to the
latter view, then the answer is "yes"! Examples
include Schwartzwalder Kirsch *Germany), the
various palinkas of Hungary, andSlivovitz/Slivovica
(Balkan states). All of these involve a fermented
and distilled fruit mash. These are not the same as

1. flavored brandies (e.g. Blackberry Brandy)
2. flavored vodkas, such as cherry, apricot pit,
and various berries, common throughout
central Europe and the Balkans. These are
made by marinating fruit in vodka.

A-

In article >, arthur
alexander > wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:42:29 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> > wrote:
>
> >Richard Wright > nattered on
> om:
> >.
> >
> >Interesting--but are there any non-grape brandies?
>
> Depends....
>
> Some define the term solely in terms of the grape,
> while other are less strict.

I'd agree with all you've said, but aren't you replying to a post
that's nearly five years old?

L

Lazarus Cooke > writes:

>In article >, arthur
>alexander > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:42:29 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Richard Wright > nattered on
>> om:
>> >.
>> >
>> >Interesting--but are there any non-grape brandies?
>>
>> Depends....
>>
>> Some define the term solely in terms of the grape,
>> while other are less strict.
>
>I'd agree with all you've said, but aren't you replying to a post
>that's nearly five years old?

But it was aged in charred oak!

Lee Rudolph

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:33:37 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
> wrote:

>In article >, arthur
>alexander > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:42:29 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Richard Wright > nattered on
>> om:
>> >.
>> >
>I'd agree with all you've said, but aren't you replying to a post
>that's nearly five years old?
>
Indeed, true, true! I had just resubscribed to r.f.h and downloaded
all the headers, which automatically sort by date (I use Forte
Agent). This post was near the top so I responded before I noticed
the date.... OOPS! I concluded the NG was dead. Are you two the
only survivors? Was it golbal warming? Did the WHO revoke the
charter? Did r.f.h. run afoul of the trilateral commission?

A-

"arthur alexander" > wrote

>>I'd agree with all you've said, but aren't you replying to a post
>>that's nearly five years old?
>>
> Indeed, true, true! I had just resubscribed to r.f.h and downloaded
> all the headers, which automatically sort by date (I use Forte
> Agent). This post was near the top so I responded before I noticed

The first thing I did when starting to use Agent was disabuse it of that
habit.

> the date.... OOPS! I concluded the NG was dead. Are you two the
> only survivors? Was it golbal warming? Did the WHO revoke the
> charter? Did r.f.h. run afoul of the trilateral commission?

Black Helicopters.

This NG goes through fits and starts and stops.

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

Some of us have become lurkers... absorbing the good, and ranting (off
in the wings) about the bad. While I *could* have responded to several
subjects, I would have been making it up as I went along -- which
didn't seem to be in the spirit (at least the original spirit) of the
group.

Gary

On Feb 16, 12:23 pm, arthur alexander >
wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 23:33:37 +0000, Lazarus Cooke
Are you two the
> only survivors? Was it golbal warming? Did the WHO revoke the
> charter? Did r.f.h. run afoul of the trilateral commission?

Opinicus wrote:
> "arthur alexander" > wrote
>
>>> I'd agree with all you've said, but aren't you replying to a post
>>> that's nearly five years old?
>>>
>> Indeed, true, true! I had just resubscribed to r.f.h and downloaded
>> all the headers, which automatically sort by date (I use Forte
>> Agent). This post was near the top so I responded before I noticed
>
> The first thing I did when starting to use Agent was disabuse it of that
> habit.
>
>> the date.... OOPS! I concluded the NG was dead. Are you two the
>> only survivors? Was it golbal warming? Did the WHO revoke the
>> charter? Did r.f.h. run afoul of the trilateral commission?
>
> Black Helicopters.
>
> This NG goes through fits and starts and stops.
>

That is true. But it is an interesting post with some interesting
responses. Is peach brandy made from a fermented fruit mash or is it a
flavored brandy?

Cookie

TMOliver wrote:
> "Cookie Cutter" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> That is true. But it is an interesting post with some interesting
>> responses. Is peach brandy made from a fermented fruit mash or is it a
>> flavored brandy?
>>
> "Store bought" peach brandy is a distillate, hopefully from grapes, but in
> many cases doubtfully, flavored after distillation with the occasional
> peach, peach extracts and in some cases artificial flavoring agents.
>
> Slivovic' by whatever spelling was in the past made from distilling plum
> mash.
>
> Some of the better grappas in Italy were made with the leftovers from
> pressings for white wine, skins, pulp, twigs, leaves, the occasional bunion,
> and a fungal toenail or two lost in the stomping.
>
>

Yuk!

As the OP, let me say (4.5 years later) that I never did get an answer
to my original question. Is the Serbian/Croatian drink 'Travarica'
within the range of variation of other European drinks called
'Absinthe'?

Nice to see some of the old lurkers are still around!

On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:36:12 -0600, arthur alexander
> wrote:

>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:42:29 GMT, "Bryan J. Maloney"
> wrote:
>
>>Richard Wright > nattered on
>>thusnews:nufimvsn7po8f5al64k4np5i5dtqn7vguf@4ax. com:
>>.
>>
>>Interesting--but are there any non-grape brandies?
>
>Depends....
>
>Some define the term solely in terms of the grape,
>while other are less strict. If you adhere to the
>latter view, then the answer is "yes"! Examples
>include Schwartzwalder Kirsch *Germany), the
>various palinkas of Hungary, andSlivovitz/Slivovica
> (Balkan states). All of these involve a fermented
>and distilled fruit mash. These are not the same as
>
>1. flavored brandies (e.g. Blackberry Brandy)
>2. flavored vodkas, such as cherry, apricot pit,
>and various berries, common throughout
>central Europe and the Balkans. These are
>made by marinating fruit in vodka.
>
>A-

Richard Wright a écrit :
> As the OP, let me say (4.5 years later) that I never did get an answer
> to my original question. Is the Serbian/Croatian drink 'Travarica'
> within the range of variation of other European drinks called
> 'Absinthe'?
>
Looks like some Travarica could resemble in some ways Absinthe, but
AFAIK Travarica are a whole range of brandies infused with herbs.

From http://www.johnjgoddard.com/2008/01/13/travarica/ :
In Dalmatia, the king of all rakijas is travarica (TRA-va-ree-tsa), a
sophisticated spirit acclaimed as a superb digestive aid and tonic. It
is quite simply an infusion of grape brandy and a variety of herbs, and
there are as many recipes for travarica as there are people producing
it. Some contain as few as 10 herbs, while others can contain 20 or
more. Travarica often contains rosemary, chamomile, lavender, rose hips,
matgrass, juniper, thyme, currants, mint or sage, but the list of
possible additions is practically endless.


No special mention of wormwood, the essential ingredient of absinthe,
and that seems corroborated from other sources all around the web.

HTH
--
Greetings, Salutations,
Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
Chris CII, Rennes, France

Hey folks,

Just noticed that my blog entry was linked here and came to join the
4.5 year-old fun.

I returned to the US from Croatia back in mid-September. I lived and
worked as a chef through the summer of 2007 in a small fishing village
called Marina on the Dalmatian coast. I also spent 5 months in Croatia
in 2006, living primarily in Zagreb, but also travelling throughout
the country and working briefly as a chef on the Peljesac peninsula,
across from the isle of Korcula, not far from Dubrovnik. I have
drunk(!) travarica and many other Balkan spirits/fruit brandies in
many forms. I suppose those are my qualifications for giving an
authoritative answer on the subject...

Travarica does exist in many forms. Essentially, the word is a
diminutive form of 'trava' which technically means 'grass', but can
mean something like 'herb'. In the strictest sense of the literary
dialect of the Croatian language, though, 'biljka' is the word used to
refer to herbs. On the Dalmatian coast, however, where dialect and
life are far more laid back than in Zagreb, fewer words are used to
refer to a larger number of things.

Travarica is considered a Dalmatian concoction throughout the former
Yugoslavia, but it is made in the home just about everywhere
throughout Croatia and the other ex-Yu republics. One need only throw
a bunch of aromatic herbs into a bottle and then fill 'er up with
grape brandy. Technically, one should not use grappa. Grappa is, as
the previous post mentions, produced from grape pomace - the stems,
seeds, skins and other detritus left over from making wine. Lozica
(also called groždica outside of Dalmatia) is pure grape brandy.
That's what you need for a proper infusion of travarica.

My neighbors in Marina and around Zagreb make their own wines and
brandies, and so subsequently they make their own travarica. None of
them use wormwood. I don't believe anyone in Croatia uses wormwood in
their travarica. I've never heard of it being included. So, to answer
your original question, Richard: No. Travarica is not in the absinthe
family. It contains no wormwood. But technically speaking, absinthe is
in the travarica family.

I've written a fair amount on Croatian and Balkan food at my culinary
blog, http://articlesofmastication.com, and I'm developing a website
specifiaclly dedicated to Dalmatian gastronomy at http://dalmatiancooking.com
if any of you are interested in further information. I'll be updating
more frequently soon. I've only just now completed another year of
furious travelling and research, and life is gradually returning to
normal. I look forward to sharing more information on these little
known culinary idioms. Incidentally, those who are REALLY interested
in Dalmatia and its cuisine are free to contact me about the
gastronomy tour of Dalmatia I've designed in conjunction with the
luxury travel agency Secret Dalmatia (http://secretdalmatia.com). I'm
able to offer a lower promotional price for the tour than what's
offered at Secret Dalmatia.

Thanks for checking out my sites. I just found this group, and I like
what I see. Perhaps I'll chime in from time to time...

Pozdrav,
John J. Goddard





On Mar 3, 9:58 am, Christophe Bachmann > wrote:
> Richard Wright a écrit :> As the OP, let me say (4.5 years later) that I never did get an answer
> > to my original question. Is the Serbian/Croatian drink 'Travarica'
> > within the range of variation of other European drinks called
> > 'Absinthe'?
>
> Looks like some Travarica could resemble in some ways Absinthe, but
> AFAIK Travarica are a whole range of brandies infused with herbs.
>
> Fromhttp://www.johnjgoddard.com/2008/01/13/travarica/:
> In Dalmatia, the king of all rakijas is travarica (TRA-va-ree-tsa), a
> sophisticated spirit acclaimed as a superb digestive aid and tonic. It
> is quite simply an infusion of grape brandy and a variety of herbs, and
> there are as many recipes for travarica as there are people producing
> it. Some contain as few as 10 herbs, while others can contain 20 or
> more. Travarica often contains rosemary, chamomile, lavender, rose hips,
> matgrass, juniper, thyme, currants, mint or sage, but the list of
> possible additions is practically endless.
>
> No special mention of wormwood, the essential ingredient of absinthe,
> and that seems corroborated from other sources all around the web.
>
> HTH
> --
> Greetings, Salutations,
> Guiraud Belissen, Chteau du Ciel, Drachenwald,
> Chris CII, Rennes, France

There's an unusually good article on absinthe in Wikipedia.

I spend a fair amount of time in Dalmatia, where travarica is endemic,
and have tasted probably more of it than is good for me.

Lazarus

"John J. Goddard" > writes:

>I'm developing a website
>specifiaclly dedicated to Dalmatian gastronomy at http://dalmatiancooking.com

Doesn't that belong in the "Spotted Dog" thread?

Lee Rudolph

On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:24:13 -0800 (PST), "John J. Goddard"
> wrote:

<snipped>

>
>My neighbors in Marina and around Zagreb make their own wines and
>brandies, and so subsequently they make their own travarica. None of
>them use wormwood. I don't believe anyone in Croatia uses wormwood in
>their travarica. I've never heard of it being included. So, to answer
>your original question, Richard: No. Travarica is not in the absinthe
>family. It contains no wormwood. But technically speaking, absinthe is
>in the travarica family.
>

<snipped>

Welcome John.

I take the point that domestic Travarica is whatever grasses and herbs
you care to put in the spirits. I was first introduced to it in Coca
Cola bottles in the Tuzla market place in Bosnia.

However I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might have
been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.

Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to the discussions.

Ever hear the term 'perverzija', Richard? My friend Gule says cooking
scorpion fish under the peka is a perversion. Whether or not Maraska
is lacing their hooch with wormwood, I think a lot of people I know
would frown on the inclusion as perverse. Wormwood is not very good
for you at all, and it doesn't carry a nice flavor. I also hear that
the reputed psychoactive properties are technically a myth. Rogaèica
(lozica infused with carob pods) has the bitterness you'd encounter
with wormwoood, and none of the poison. I think the best rogaèica I've
had was on Pelje¹ac.

John

On Mar 4, 2:27 pm, Richard Wright > wrote:
> Welcome John.
>
> I take the point that domestic Travarica is whatever grasses and herbs
> you care to put in the spirits. I was first introduced to it in Coca
> Cola bottles in the Tuzla market place in Bosnia.
>
> However I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might have
> been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.

> I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might
> have been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.

I think that's flavoured with walnut. Dark brown and bitter.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

On Wed, 05 Mar 2008 13:59:32 +0000, Jack Campin - bogus address
> wrote:

>> I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
>> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might
>> have been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.
>
>I think that's flavoured with walnut. Dark brown and bitter.
>
>==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
>Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
>CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

Not the Maraska Travarica. That's clear, with a trace of yellow - like
pale urine. God dammit, I shall have to take a trip to the bottleshop
5 km away.

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 02:59:50 -0800 (PST), "John J. Goddard"
> wrote:

>Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to the discussions.
>
>Ever hear the term 'perverzija', Richard? My friend Gule says cooking
>scorpion fish under the peka is a perversion. Whether or not Maraska
>is lacing their hooch with wormwood, I think a lot of people I know
>would frown on the inclusion as perverse. Wormwood is not very good
>for you at all, and it doesn't carry a nice flavor. I also hear that
>the reputed psychoactive properties are technically a myth. Rogaèica
>(lozica infused with carob pods) has the bitterness you'd encounter
>with wormwoood, and none of the poison. I think the best rogaèica I've
>had was on Pelje¹ac.
>
>John
>
>On Mar 4, 2:27 pm, Richard Wright > wrote:
>> Welcome John.
>>
>> I take the point that domestic Travarica is whatever grasses and herbs
>> you care to put in the spirits. I was first introduced to it in Coca
>> Cola bottles in the Tuzla market place in Bosnia.
>>
>> However I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
>> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might have
>> been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.

Well, I'm sure that millions of drinkers of Absinthe, both past and
present, think that the flavour of wormwood is nice. And if I am right
about Maraska's contents (and I must visit my bottleshop to see) then
millions of Croatians are happy with the perversion.

The only harmful attribute of wormwood that I know of is its alleged
psychotropic property. now played down (see Wikipedia entry on
Absinthe). I guess that Parisians sat mutely drinking absinthe
because of an insufficiency of nourishing food to go with the
absinthe, that on its own they could scarcely afford. So perhaps Van
Gogh cut off his ear because of a surfeit of alcohol, not because of a
surfeit of wormwood.

One recipe that is supposed to reconstruct the flavour of 19th century
Parisian Absinthe is to take 5 grams of fresh wormwood leaf (Artemisia
absinthium), macerate it in a blender with a small quantify of ouzo,
leave five minutes, strain the mixture through a coffee paper filter,
add the strained liquid to the remaining bottle of ouzo, add 2 level
tsps of caster sugar and dissolve. Dink diluted with iced water. But
beware - this may be dangerous to drink. I am no authority on
wormwood. I have tried it, but did not become addicted. I doubt that I
ever shall, to put it bluntly.

I'm a fan of ansinthe. Best I've had was in Budapest.

J


On Mar 5, 11:27 am, Richard Wright > wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 02:59:50 -0800 (PST), "John J. Goddard"
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to the discussions.
>
> >Ever hear the term 'perverzija', Richard? My friend Gule says cooking
> >scorpion fish under the peka is a perversion. Whether or not Maraska
> >is lacing their hooch with wormwood, I think a lot of people I know
> >would frown on the inclusion as perverse. Wormwood is not very good
> >for you at all, and it doesn't carry a nice flavor. I also hear that
> >the reputed psychoactive properties are technically a myth. Rogaèica
> >(lozica infused with carob pods) has the bitterness you'd encounter
> >with wormwoood, and none of the poison. I think the best rogaèica I've
> >had was on Pelje¹ac.
>
> >John
>
> >On Mar 4, 2:27 pm, Richard Wright > wrote:
> >> Welcome John.
>
> >> I take the point that domestic Travarica is whatever grasses and herbs
> >> you care to put in the spirits. I was first introduced to it in Coca
> >> Cola bottles in the Tuzla market place in Bosnia.
>
> >> However I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
> >> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might have
> >> been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.
>
> Well, I'm sure that millions of drinkers of Absinthe, both past and
> present, think that the flavour of wormwood is nice. And if I am right
> about Maraska's contents (and I must visit my bottleshop to see) then
> millions of Croatians are happy with the perversion.
>
> The only harmful attribute of wormwood that I know of is its alleged
> psychotropic property. now played down (see Wikipedia entry on
> Absinthe). I guess that Parisians sat mutely drinking absinthe
> because of an insufficiency of nourishing food to go with the
> absinthe, that on its own they could scarcely afford. So perhaps Van
> Gogh cut off his ear because of a surfeit of alcohol, not because of a
> surfeit of wormwood.
>
> One recipe that is supposed to reconstruct the flavour of 19th century
> Parisian Absinthe is to take 5 grams of fresh wormwood leaf (Artemisia
> absinthium), macerate it in a blender with a small quantify of ouzo,
> leave five minutes, strain the mixture through a coffee paper filter,
> add the strained liquid to the remaining bottle of ouzo, add 2 level
> tsps of caster sugar and dissolve. Dink diluted with iced water. But
> beware - this may be dangerous to drink. I am no authority on
> wormwood. I have tried it, but did not become addicted. I doubt that I
> ever shall, to put it bluntly.

Every absinthe I've had is flavoured with at least anise, and often
others. Have you ever tasted pure wormwood oil without the other
niceties?

J


On Mar 5, 11:27 am, Richard Wright > wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 02:59:50 -0800 (PST), "John J. Goddard"
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >Thanks for the welcome. I look forward to the discussions.
>
> >Ever hear the term 'perverzija', Richard? My friend Gule says cooking
> >scorpion fish under the peka is a perversion. Whether or not Maraska
> >is lacing their hooch with wormwood, I think a lot of people I know
> >would frown on the inclusion as perverse. Wormwood is not very good
> >for you at all, and it doesn't carry a nice flavor. I also hear that
> >the reputed psychoactive properties are technically a myth. Rogaèica
> >(lozica infused with carob pods) has the bitterness you'd encounter
> >with wormwoood, and none of the poison. I think the best rogaèica I've
> >had was on Pelje¹ac.
>
> >John
>
> >On Mar 4, 2:27 pm, Richard Wright > wrote:
> >> Welcome John.
>
> >> I take the point that domestic Travarica is whatever grasses and herbs
> >> you care to put in the spirits. I was first introduced to it in Coca
> >> Cola bottles in the Tuzla market place in Bosnia.
>
> >> However I am confident that one of the commercial brands of Travarica
> >> mentioned wormwood/absinthe as one of the ingredients. It might have
> >> been the Maraska brand made in Zadar.
>
> Well, I'm sure that millions of drinkers of Absinthe, both past and
> present, think that the flavour of wormwood is nice. And if I am right
> about Maraska's contents (and I must visit my bottleshop to see) then
> millions of Croatians are happy with the perversion.
>
> The only harmful attribute of wormwood that I know of is its alleged
> psychotropic property. now played down (see Wikipedia entry on
> Absinthe). I guess that Parisians sat mutely drinking absinthe
> because of an insufficiency of nourishing food to go with the
> absinthe, that on its own they could scarcely afford. So perhaps Van
> Gogh cut off his ear because of a surfeit of alcohol, not because of a
> surfeit of wormwood.
>
> One recipe that is supposed to reconstruct the flavour of 19th century
> Parisian Absinthe is to take 5 grams of fresh wormwood leaf (Artemisia
> absinthium), macerate it in a blender with a small quantify of ouzo,
> leave five minutes, strain the mixture through a coffee paper filter,
> add the strained liquid to the remaining bottle of ouzo, add 2 level
> tsps of caster sugar and dissolve. Dink diluted with iced water. But
> beware - this may be dangerous to drink. I am no authority on
> wormwood. I have tried it, but did not become addicted. I doubt that I
> ever shall, to put it bluntly.

I've had a mint flavored absinthe