"Reid©" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Javi
>
> >> You are quite right, it would be unwise to use it for chips.
> >
> >Then Spaniards are quite unwise: we believe that the best "frituras"
(deep
> >fried stuff, usually chips or fish) are those made in olive oil.
>
> and the fried fish in Seville is possibly the best in the world.
> "Kiosk de los flores" by the bridge to Trianna for example, where
> they serve fried fish on paper without a stain of oil. try that
> in a chippy!
>
> My deep fat fryer is filled with olive oil.
>
So, do you call it El Tuck?


--
"The highest realms of thought
are impossible to reach
without first attaining
an understanding of compassion."

SOCRATES

The carbon unit using the name Reid© > in
gave utterance as follows:

> Following up to Javi
>
>>> You are quite right, it would be unwise to use it for chips.
>>
>> Then Spaniards are quite unwise: we believe that the best "frituras"
>> (deep fried stuff, usually chips or fish) are those made in olive
>> oil.
>
> and the fried fish in Seville is possibly the best in the world.
> "Kiosk de los flores" by the bridge to Trianna for example,

I know that, I've been there. We write it "Quiosco" or "Kiosco".

> where
> they serve fried fish on paper without a stain of oil.

Frituras are even better in Cádiz, where you can eat them at the seaside;
marinated fish ("adobo") and fish's roe is great. Those shops are usually
called "freidurías".

> try that
> in a chippy!

??? "Chippy" is not in my dictionaries as a noun. Is that a chip 'n fish
shop?

> My deep fat fryer is filled with olive oil.


So is mine.

--�
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

Following up to Javi

>> and the fried fish in Seville is possibly the best in the world.
>> "Kiosk de los flores" by the bridge to Trianna for example,
>
>I know that, I've been there. We write it "Quiosco" or "Kiosco".

that's it, thanks!

>> where
>> they serve fried fish on paper without a stain of oil.
>
>Frituras are even better in Cádiz, where you can eat them at the seaside;
>marinated fish ("adobo") and fish's roe is great. Those shops are usually
>called "freidurías".

Cadiz is one of my favourite paces, we like to go to a fish
restaurant by the beach. (Mariscos La Marea, Paseo Maritimo 1),
Also "El Faro", then there are the tortillitas and those tiny
shrimps :-)
I find fish roe a bit rich but Cazon adobo is a favourite of
mine.

What part of Spain are you from?

>> try that
>> in a chippy!
>
>??? "Chippy" is not in my dictionaries as a noun. Is that a chip 'n fish
>shop?

Yes, "fish and chip shop", (no 'n, thats an americanism although
you will see it in UK). can be a "chippy" or a "chip shop".
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>> Sherry comes from Jerez. South Africa should think up their own
>> designation for their fortified wines.
>>
>Indeed. No doubt some day the Yanks will be forced to think up some
>different name for the gnat's **** that they call 'Budweiser'.

hopefully.

>Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to be
>cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.

Not shocked, but it would be a nice thing if there was a sort of
appelation controllee system for such things, for instance, meat
not grown in the place it alleges to come from.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

In article >,
Reid© > wrote:
>Following up to Javi

>>??? "Chippy" is not in my dictionaries as a noun. Is that a chip 'n fish
>>shop?
>
>Yes, "fish and chip shop", (no 'n, thats an americanism although
>you will see it in UK). can be a "chippy" or a "chip shop".

Properly spelled "'n'", I think, though you often see "'n", "n'",
"`n'", and "`n". (Apologies to anyone who can't read ASCII single
quotes.)

David

"Reid©" > wrote...
> Following up to Matti Lamprhey
>
> >Hmm. I don't think olive oil will stand up to the high temperatures
> >which are often associated with deep frying. I wouldn't use it for
> >chips, f'r instance.
>
> Its smoke point is 210C Sunflower oil 200C Corn oil 210C.
> Rapeseed and Grapeseed have slightly higher smokepoints but all
> are OK for deep frying. You might of course like or dislike the
> taste imparted, which is not typical for english chips.

My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This table
from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from other sites
(celsius converted from fahrenheit):

DegC Type
271 Avocado
240 Soya
232 Corn, peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
210 Sesame
204 Rapeseed, walnut
176 Olive

Now I would say that chips need to be finished off at a temperature of
185C to 195C, so olive oil is clearly contra-indicated.

Matti
-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte

Following up to dcw

>Properly spelled "'n'",

I suppose fish 'n' chips indicates the missing letters and fish
"n" chips indicates it's an informal word?
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
> wrote:

>My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
>point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).

If you look at

http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm

that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
215C.

So which is correct?

Dave W.

"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> "mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at 8.00,
> > dinner served at 8.30.
> > Is this not the case?
> >
> Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a
tiny
> dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even
for
> sherry.
>
You must be a very slow drinker.
m.

The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson > in
gave utterance as follows:

> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
> > wrote:
>
>> My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
>> point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).
>
> If you look at
>
> http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm
>
> that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
> 215C.
>
> So which is correct?


It is common knowledge here in Spain that olive oil do not burn as easily as
seed oils, but, really, I don't know. I'll try to find out and tell you all.

--�
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

Following up to Matti Lamprhey

>My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
>point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This table
>from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from other sites
>(celsius converted from fahrenheit):
>
>DegC Type
>271 Avocado
>240 Soya
>232 Corn peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
>210 Sesame
>204 Rapeseed, walnut
>176 Olive

My figures are from "oils, vinegars ans seasonings" Ridgway,
Mitchel Beazley.
They give avocado as 220, soya, corn at 210

"The author says the oils above[1] are all suitable for deep
frying. some of the specialised oils like the nut oils and
oriental sesame oils do not have such high smoke points...."

1] (corn,grape,ground,olive,rape,soya,sun)

Different sources, different figures, all I know is olive oil
works.

>-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte

here too (food_drink.misc) :-)
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson > in
gave utterance as follows:

> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:46:29 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
> > wrote:
>
>> My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
>> point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either).
>
> If you look at
>
> http://www.oliveoilsource.com/olivechemistry.htm
>
> that gives a smoke point of 420F for virgin olive oil, which is around
> 215C.
>
> So which is correct?


What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several oils,
not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but several give even
300ºC

http://www.planet-stuff.freeserve.co...emperature.htm

There are not two pages that give the same number for oils' boiling points.
The most scientifical opinion seems to be

/QUOTE ON/

http://van.hep.uiuc.edu/van/qa/secti...ergy/Boiling_E
vaporating_and_Condensing/20010430135040.htm

it's hard to measure the boiling point of oil. The reason is that well
before it reaches its boiling point, oil will start to smoke. This is called
the 'smoke point'. The smoke points for some common cooking oils are he

Safflower - 510 F (266 C)
Soybean - 495 F (257 C)
Corn - 475 F (246 C)
Peanut - 440 F (227 C)
Sesame - 420 F (216 C)
Olive - 375 F (191 C)
(from http://wywahoos.org/wahoos/cookbook/tools.htm)
The exact temperatures will also depend on how pure the oil is.

/QUOTE OFF/

Most Spanish webpages repeat that olive oil can be heated more than seed
oils (which, in absolute terms, I doubt now), but there may be an
explanation for this: oils are composed of several fatty acids, and the one
that is most unhealthly affected by heat is linolenic acid; olive oil has
the lowest amount of it (below 1.5 %):

/QUOTE ON/

Los aceites se descomponen con el calor.
Se trata quizá de la alteración más corriente que pueden sufrir estos
productos. El principal responsable es el ácido linolénico, razón por la
cual un aceite para freír deberá ser lo más bajo posible en dicho ácido. El
virgen de oliva tiene trazas (hasta un índice 1,2); el de soja, 7,5; el
girasol, 1,4, y el de cacahuete 1,5.

El ácido oleico, ácido monoinsaturado y mayoritario en el aceite de oliva,
es menos propenso a oxidarse que los ácidos poliinsaturados. Por lo tanto,
cuanto mayor es el contenido de ácido oleico, a igualdad de ácidos
saturados, menos oxidable es el aceite, como ocurre en el aceite de oliva en
comparación con los otros aceites vegetales.

/QUOTE OFF/

In Spain, olive oil sold must say which is its acid percentage; I had never
understood what acid it was, but now I know that it is "free fatty acids", I
believe that, mainly, linolenic acid; so, the lower its acidic grade, the
best for frying. Also, deep frying seems to happen at 170-180ºC, so any
vegetal oil can do.

--�
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

"Reid©" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
>
> >Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to be
> >cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.
>
> Not shocked, but it would be a nice thing if there was a sort of
> appelation controllee system for such things, for instance, meat
> not grown in the place it alleges to come from.
>
Why exactly do you support this protectionism?

Is it that you like the idea of third world farmers starving?

Or is it that you imagine that specifying the location also ensures the
quality?


--
"We pride ourselves on our peace and stability" - Zimbabwean President
Robert Mugabe

"Javi" > wrote in message
...
> The carbon unit using the name David Wilkinson > in
> gave utterance as follows:
>
>
>
> It is common knowledge here in Spain that olive oil do not burn as easily
as
> seed oils, but, really, I don't know. I'll try to find out and tell you
all.
>
Actually it depends rather on the sort of olive oil. Highly refined (pure
yellow) olive oil does have a high smoke point. Extra Virgin Olive Oil,
since it contains many 'ímpurities' has a much lower smoke point and is
quite unsuitable for deep frying.


--
Middle age is when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night and the
telephone rings and you hope that it isn't for you - 'It takes all sorts'
Milton Shulman

"mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at
8.00,
> > > dinner served at 8.30.
> > > Is this not the case?
> > >
> > Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is a
> tiny
> > dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer even
> for
> > sherry.
> >
> You must be a very slow drinker.
>
I may well be...

However the issue isn't the speed of drinking. It is the exponential
increase in the time conversations take as you increase the number of
people. It takes much longer to serve, chat to, and move through to the
dining room, ten people, than it does six - much, much longer.

Try it some day.


--
"The highest realms of thought
are impossible to reach
without first attaining
an understanding of compassion."

SOCRATES

Following up to Javi

>What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several oils,
>not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but several give even
>300ºC

Perhaps it is difficult to ascertain the smoke point and
different tests give different results?

I use 3 litre cans of "ordinary" Carbonell for cooking and frying
and extra virgin for dressings etc.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"Reid©" > wrote...
> Following up to Matti Lamprhey
>
> > My own research doesn't back up your figure of 210C for the smoking
> > point of olive oil (or the other ones you quoted, either). This
> > table from Holland & Barrett seems to accord with the info from
> > other sites (celsius converted from fahrenheit):
> >
> >DegC Type
> >271 Avocado
> >240 Soya
> >232 Corn peanut, safflower, sunflower (refined)
> >210 Sesame
> >204 Rapeseed, walnut
> >176 Olive
>
> My figures are from "oils, vinegars ans seasonings" Ridgway,
> Mitchel Beazley.
> They give avocado as 220, soya, corn at 210
>
> "The author says the oils above[1] are all suitable for deep
> frying. some of the specialised oils like the nut oils and
> oriental sesame oils do not have such high smoke points...."
>
> 1] (corn,grape,ground,olive,rape,soya,sun)
>
> Different sources, different figures, all I know is olive oil
> works.
>
> >-- posting from alt.usage.english, where food is our forte
>
> here too (food_drink.misc) :-)

I see Peter Brooks got here before me, but I was going to say that it
probably depends on the degree to which the olive oil has been processed
or refined; other oils show a wide range of smoke point from 160C to
232C depending on the degree of refinement. Consequently the extra
virgin olive oils that people now buy for the taste will be at the
bottom of this range; the processed ones which are now out of fashion
will probably have a 200C+ smoke point.

If you're saying that you deep-fry chips in extra virgin olive oil at
180C or so, this seems to go against most of the advice out there.

Matti

"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
...
>
> "mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > I have always considered 8.00 for 8.30 to mean aperitifs served at
> 8.00,
> > > > dinner served at 8.30.
> > > > Is this not the case?
> > > >
> > > Yes, but that is time for a small sherry only, and then only if it is
a
> > tiny
> > > dinner party, eight people or fewer - any more and it takes longer
even
> > for
> > > sherry.
> > >
> > You must be a very slow drinker.
> >
> I may well be...
>
> However the issue isn't the speed of drinking. It is the exponential
> increase in the time conversations take as you increase the number of
> people. It takes much longer to serve, chat to, and move through to the
> dining room, ten people, than it does six - much, much longer.
>
> Try it some day.
>
Already have, not a problem. Conversations are in small groups. In my
experience, the exponential effect you described just doesn't take place.
Conversations continue en route to the dining room and thereafter. The
secret is to invite the right people.
m.

The carbon unit using the name Reid© > in
gave utterance as follows:

> Following up to Javi
>
>> What a mess!!! I've found a broad range of temperatures for several
>> oils, not only olive oil (for this, usual range190-210ºC, but
>> several give even 300ºC
>
> Perhaps it is difficult to ascertain the smoke point and
> different tests give different results?
>
> I use 3 litre cans of "ordinary" Carbonell for cooking and frying
> and extra virgin for dressings etc.

Same as me, though I use other brands. Extra virgin, expensive, is good for
dressings; refined, cheaper, seems quite good for deep frying. This is what
my mother taught me, and it seems that "common knowledge" in this case is
quite right.

--�
Saludos cordiales

Javi

Conjunction of an irregular verb:

I am firm.
You are obstinate.
He is a pig-headed fool.

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>Actually it depends rather on the sort of olive oil. Highly refined (pure
>yellow) olive oil does have a high smoke point. Extra Virgin Olive Oil,
>since it contains many 'ímpurities' has a much lower smoke point and is
>quite unsuitable for deep frying.

the usual reason given for not using extra virgin for frying is
cost for no benefit.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>> Not shocked, but it would be a nice thing if there was a sort of
>> appelation controllee system for such things, for instance, meat
>> not grown in the place it alleges to come from.

>Why exactly do you support this protectionism?

Knowing the true source of a product is not protectionism.
If the source has to be concealed, what does that say of the
reputation of the true producing area?

>Is it that you like the idea of third world farmers starving?

What has political non alignment got to do with it?
But no, I always buy vietnamese champagne, chinese beef and
african whisky. I strongly believe the developing countries
should be given a helping hand by being allowed to forge
developed world products.

>Or is it that you imagine that specifying the location also ensures the
>quality?

Ah yes, I have been waiting for this one since you mentioned
cheddar.
When a producer can guarantee his product will not be
counterfeited he is in the position to build a reputation for
quality if he wishes. The consumer, knowing the source is able to
descriminate between the good and the bad over time. A piece of
cheese just labelled "cheddar" tells us almost nothing about the
cheese in the present situation.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

"mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in message
> ...
>> >
> > However the issue isn't the speed of drinking. It is the exponential
> > increase in the time conversations take as you increase the number of
> > people. It takes much longer to serve, chat to, and move through to the
> > dining room, ten people, than it does six - much, much longer.
> >
> > Try it some day.
> >
> Already have, not a problem. Conversations are in small groups. In my
> experience, the exponential effect you described just doesn't take place.
> Conversations continue en route to the dining room and thereafter. The
> secret is to invite the right people.
>
Oh, yes, inviting the right people is just the ticket - however, inviting
the same people all the time isn't. So you have to take calculated risks.

If the conversation is in small groups then, unless you are entertaining
fifteen or more people (which I advise against), you have failed. The trick
is to have one group conversation that may, from time to time, divide into
small sub-converstions, but, like a variation on a theme in music, rejoins
the main theme. Otherwise you end up inviting some people and never enjoying
the conversation with them - unless you go in for the horrible '60s cocktail
party convention of 'circulating' what a bore.


--
Middle age is when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night and the
telephone rings and you hope that it isn't for you - 'It takes all sorts'
Milton Shulman

"Reid©" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >Actually it depends rather on the sort of olive oil. Highly refined (pure
> >yellow) olive oil does have a high smoke point. Extra Virgin Olive Oil,
> >since it contains many 'ímpurities' has a much lower smoke point and is
> >quite unsuitable for deep frying.
>
> the usual reason given for not using extra virgin for frying is
> cost for no benefit.
>
Quite. You might as well deep fry crayfish.


--
Middle age is when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night and the
telephone rings and you hope that it isn't for you - 'It takes all sorts'
Milton Shulman

"Reid©" > wrote in message
...
> Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> >> Not shocked, but it would be a nice thing if there was a sort of
> >> appelation controllee system for such things, for instance, meat
> >> not grown in the place it alleges to come from.
>
> >Why exactly do you support this protectionism?
>
> Knowing the true source of a product is not protectionism.
> If the source has to be concealed, what does that say of the
> reputation of the true producing area?
>
Knowing the true source isn't protectionism, agreed, that can be on the
label. Insisting that a generally understood generic name (cheddar, sherry,
port, etc.) is legally only attached to one place is.
>
> >Is it that you like the idea of third world farmers starving?
>
> What has political non alignment got to do with it?
> But no, I always buy vietnamese champagne, chinese beef and
> african whisky. I strongly believe the developing countries
> should be given a helping hand by being allowed to forge
> developed world products.
>
If you believe that then you can't, at the same time, support the
protectionism that would insist that whisky comes from Scotland (whiskey, of
course can come from Ireland, Yankland or Outer Mongolia) and that cheddar
only comes from Cheddar etc. etc.. Beef comes from cattle, the location
isn't important.
>
> >Or is it that you imagine that specifying the location also ensures the
> >quality?
>
> Ah yes, I have been waiting for this one since you mentioned
> cheddar.
> When a producer can guarantee his product will not be
> counterfeited he is in the position to build a reputation for
> quality if he wishes. The consumer, knowing the source is able to
> descriminate between the good and the bad over time. A piece of
> cheese just labelled "cheddar" tells us almost nothing about the
> cheese in the present situation.
>
Indeed. This is another protectionist measure, trade marking. It can mean
that the produce is identified with a particular producer for good or ill.
This, however, has nothing to do with regional identities. Joe Bloggs can
buy an acre in Rhiems, plant a few grapes and call the muck he produces
Champagne, if he does the same a dozen kilometres away, he can be
prosecuted. This makes no sense.


--
Middle age is when you're sitting at home on a Saturday night and the
telephone rings and you hope that it isn't for you - 'It takes all sorts'
Milton Shulman

On 30 Sep 2003 21:21:13 GMT, Adrian Tupper
> wrote:

>"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in news:3F795E9E.6050601
:
>
>
>>
>> Chota Hazri - Five Thirty (05h30)
>
>What's one o' them then?

Pukka and Chota Hazri are Hindi words adopted by the English during the
time of the Raj. Pukka means, basically, 'well cooked'. For the
English it came to mean first class or proper. Chota Hazri is little
breakfast or early morning tea taken before dawn. For the English, it
means bed tea or light breakfast snack. Burra Hazri would be the later
big breakfast.

"Robert Klute" > wrote in message
...
> On 30 Sep 2003 21:21:13 GMT, Adrian Tupper
> > wrote:
>
> >"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in news:3F795E9E.6050601
> :
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Chota Hazri - Five Thirty (05h30)
> >
> >What's one o' them then?
>
> Pukka and Chota Hazri are Hindi words adopted by the English during the
> time of the Raj. Pukka means, basically, 'well cooked'. For the
> English it came to mean first class or proper. Chota Hazri is little
> breakfast or early morning tea taken before dawn. For the English, it
> means bed tea or light breakfast snack. Burra Hazri would be the later
> big breakfast.

Care is needed with the pronunciation. Burra (often, bara) has the u of
'cup' and means big. Burra with the u of 'full' means bad. You eat it, you
choose.
m.

"mUs1Ka" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Klute" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On 30 Sep 2003 21:21:13 GMT, Adrian Tupper
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >"Peter H.M. Brooks" > wrote in news:3F795E9E.6050601
> > :
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Chota Hazri - Five Thirty (05h30)
> > >
> > >What's one o' them then?
> >
> > Pukka and Chota Hazri are Hindi words adopted by the English during the
> > time of the Raj. Pukka means, basically, 'well cooked'. For the
> > English it came to mean first class or proper. Chota Hazri is little
> > breakfast or early morning tea taken before dawn. For the English, it
> > means bed tea or light breakfast snack. Burra Hazri would be the later
> > big breakfast.
>
> Care is needed with the pronunciation. Burra (often, bara) has the u of
> 'cup' and means big. Burra with the u of 'full' means bad. You eat it, you
> choose.
>
What a useful distinction to bear in mind if you have an unpleasant
breakfast!


--
'They.. sucked the Tobacco smoak in greedily, swallow it down with the
Water. For which reason..generally at..the first Pipe in the Morning, they
fall down drunk and insensible.' - 1698 A. Brand 'Embark Muscovy to China'

> Care is needed with the pronunciation. Burra (often, bara) has the u
> of 'cup' and means big. Burra with the u of 'full' means bad. You eat
> it, you choose.

Maybe it's just me but 'cup' and 'full' have the same 'u' sound /

Jaqy


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"MC_Emily" > wrote in message
...
> > Care is needed with the pronunciation. Burra (often, bara) has the u
> > of 'cup' and means big. Burra with the u of 'full' means bad. You eat
> > it, you choose.
>
> Maybe it's just me but 'cup' and 'full' have the same 'u' sound /
>
I knew somebody was going to say that. I was going to go into a further
description of the cup sound, but in the end, I couldn't be arsed.
m.

Robert Bannister > wrote in news:3F7B602F.5080802
@it.net.au:

> Adrian Tupper wrote:
>> No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
>> off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.
>
> What a strange life style. I only have an alarm clock so that I can
keep
> my eyes closed till the last minute. I am always awake beforehand.
> Perhaps, if I were to attempt getting up at an odd time (currently, I
go
> for 5.30 am), then your method might be appropriate, although I have
> never had problems with waking at 2, 3 or 4 am when required. My body
> clock tells me to wake up.
>

Me too. I don't use an alarm. When I did I set it at the latest time
possible and, because I hate the things so much, I would wake up
just beforehand, get up and turn it off. Progression onto not having an
alarm at all was quite simple.

I can't reliably wake up too early though. I tend to wake frequently
during the night when I try.
--
Adrian

Reid© wrote:
> Following up to Robert Bannister
>
>
>>>No it's the difference between leaping out of bed when the alarm goes
>>>off and pausing for a minute or two after waking up naturally.
>>
>>What a strange life style. I only have an alarm clock so that I can keep
>>my eyes closed till the last minute.
>
>
> but there are many who are not like that.

I call most of those 'teenagers'. I went through that phase too.

--
Rob Bannister

Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> "Robert Bannister" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The post-pub curry is a late supper. If it is a very late opening
>>> pub
>>
> then
>
>>> it might be a Midnight Feast.
>>
>> Back in the 60s, I knew a curry shop in Bethnal Green that served
>> very hot and quite horrible curries till 2 am. This was more an
>> on-the-way-home snack.
>>
>
> In my youth there was a late night horror known as Twiggies Pie Cart.
> You could order a number of exotic dishes to stimulate the palate you
> could specify that 'hotters' were added. The pies were all at least a
> day old. If you made the mistake of dining there (for, at that time
> of night everything else was closed) you learned, early in life,
> quite what the combination of a bad hangover and heart burn felt
> like.

An unforgettable experience was the pie cart in the centre of Adelaide.
After an evening on the beer, one went there and had a 'pie floater'.
This consists of a particularly obnoxious meat pie 'floating' in a
thinnish pea soup. Tomato sauce (ketchup) is, of course, compulsory.

I'm not sure whether the pie cart is still there. Perhaps a South
Australian contributor can tell us.


--
Rob Bannister

Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> "Reid©" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
>>
>>
>>>Tio Pepe is very nice, though these days, being in Cape Town, I usually
>>
> have
>
>>>South African sherries, which are very good indeed.
>>
>>Sherry comes from Jerez. South Africa should think up their own
>>designation for their fortified wines.
>>
>
> Indeed. No doubt some day the Yanks will be forced to think up some
> different name for the gnat's **** that they call 'Budweiser'.
>
> Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to be
> cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.

Only when it's orange. Don't the French or the Belgians call it 'chester'?


--
Rob Bannister

Frances Kemmish wrote:
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> I think that the heat moves things out a bit at mid-day and the cool
>>> of the
>>> evening moves them back a little.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not just weather - life style. In most of the famous Russian novels,
>> the aristocracy have breakfast (zavtrak) around noon, a meal whose
>> name I have forgotten in the early evening, dinner (obyed) towards
>> midnight and supper in the small hours of the morning.
>>
>
> In "Buddenbrooks", by Thomas Mann, which I read in English, the family
> always ate "first breakfast', and then another breakfast later in the
> morning. I don't know what term was used in the original though.

"Zweites Frühstück" (second breakfast) is still the normal term in
Germany for what we might call 'morning coffee'. Manual workers and
tradesmen, who start work very early, will commonly stop for '2nd
breakfast' at about 9 am.

--
Rob Bannister

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:58:43 +0100, "mUs1Ka" > wrote:



>Care is needed with the pronunciation. Burra (often, bara) has the u of
>'cup' and means big. Burra with the u of 'full' means bad. You eat it, you
>choose.

I know, the burra mem sahib has hit upside of the head a couple of times
when my 'mis-pronounciation' was too well timed.

"Robert Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> > >
> > In my youth there was a late night horror known as Twiggies Pie Cart.
> > You could order a number of exotic dishes to stimulate the palate you
> > could specify that 'hotters' were added. The pies were all at least a
> > day old. If you made the mistake of dining there (for, at that time
> > of night everything else was closed) you learned, early in life,
> > quite what the combination of a bad hangover and heart burn felt
> > like.
>
> An unforgettable experience was the pie cart in the centre of Adelaide.
> After an evening on the beer, one went there and had a 'pie floater'.
> This consists of a particularly obnoxious meat pie 'floating' in a
> thinnish pea soup. Tomato sauce (ketchup) is, of course, compulsory.
>
> I'm not sure whether the pie cart is still there. Perhaps a South
> Australian contributor can tell us.
>
I think that it must have been owned by Twiggie's brother!


--
Judges are known for making extreme antediluvian remarks from time to time,
their being dressed as Ark stevedores only encourages this anachronistic
playing to the gallery.- recommendations on judical attire

"Robert Bannister" > wrote in message
...
> Peter H.M. Brooks wrote:
> > "Reid©" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks
> >>
> >>
> >>>Tio Pepe is very nice, though these days, being in Cape Town, I usually
> >>
> > have
> >
> >>>South African sherries, which are very good indeed.
> >>
> >>Sherry comes from Jerez. South Africa should think up their own
> >>designation for their fortified wines.
> >>
> >
> > Indeed. No doubt some day the Yanks will be forced to think up some
> > different name for the gnat's **** that they call 'Budweiser'.
> >
> > Presumably you are as shocked when you come accross cheese claiming to
be
> > cheddar that doesn't come from Cheddar.
>
> Only when it's orange. Don't the French or the Belgians call it 'chester'?
>
Cheshire cheese is a different matter - it should only come from Cheshire.


--
"Wherever tyranny has ruled, it has been with this insidious claim that the
status quo must not be questioned," - Bantu Holomisa

Following up to Javi

>Same as me, though I use other brands. Extra virgin, expensive, is good for
>dressings; refined, cheaper

I would use other brands if I could get them cheaper. Because of
mark ups in specialist shops, 3 litre cans of oil are more
expensive than bottled Carbonell extra virgin in supermarkets. As
Waitrose do Carbonell ordinary grade in 3 L, that's the one I
use.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Matti Lamprhey

>I see Peter Brooks got here before me, but I was going to say that it
>probably depends on the degree to which the olive oil has been processed
>or refined; other oils show a wide range of smoke point from 160C to
>232C depending on the degree of refinement. Consequently the extra
>virgin olive oils that people now buy for the taste will be at the
>bottom of this range; the processed ones which are now out of fashion
>will probably have a 200C+ smoke point.

This seems to make sense and for once taste, cost and smoke point
all come together to give cost effective results for all uses.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Peter H.M. Brooks

>Knowing the true source isn't protectionism, agreed, that can be on the
>label. Insisting that a generally understood generic name (cheddar, sherry,
>port, etc.) is legally only attached to one place is.

Its probably too far down the line to change but I would love the
cheddar producers to act like French producers, with almost every
village having its own named cheese. The cheddar situation just
reflects UK/US/Canada etc lack of respect for what they do.

Sherry.
Manzanilla comes from Sanlucar de Barrameda, the grapes grow on
chalk in the salty sea air. The soleras mature in the sea air for
generations. It can come from nowhere else! Nobody else has the
terroir. Let anyone produce thiier local drink or food, but dont
let them demean themselves by labelling it with the name of
somewhere elses product.

>> >Is it that you like the idea of third world farmers starving?
>>
>> What has political non alignment got to do with it?
>> But no, I always buy vietnamese champagne, chinese beef and
>> african whisky. I strongly believe the developing countries
>> should be given a helping hand by being allowed to forge
>> developed world products.
>>
>If you believe that then you can't, at the same time,

You forgot to switch on your irony alarm.

>support the protectionism that would insist that whisky comes from Scotland (whiskey, of
>course can come from Ireland,

true

>Yankland or Outer Mongolia)

Bourbon is bourbon. Mongolia is free to market that fermented yak
butter drink.

>Beef comes from cattle, the location isn't important.

Why was the Scots reputation for quality free range grass fed
beef damaged by the BSE problem? Think about it.

If you are not convinced, buy a piece of average lamb and buy a
piece of free range Herdwicke wether grown on the Lake District
Fells.
We are what we eat, so is our food.

>Indeed. This is another protectionist measure, trade marking.

you confuse free trade with fraud.

The ethos of generic food production is one of "passing off" and
lowest common denominator food production. Let each producer
stand by his own reputation gained by his own hard work.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
UK walking "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain,cuisines and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap