FoodBanter.com - Summer Pudding

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International Recipes OnLine wrote:
> Summer Pudding
>
> submitted by butterflydog
> Heavy cream, sweetened and whipped for a topping/garnish
> Mint leaves as a garnish

A favourite pud of mine which has been used in my family for well over 100
years ... BUT we always serve hot custard with the really cold pudding....
truly yummy!!
--

Di

"The hurrier I am the behinder I get"

Di Brookman wrote:
> International Recipes OnLine wrote:
>
>>Summer Pudding
>>
>>submitted by butterflydog
>>Heavy cream, sweetened and whipped for a topping/garnish
>>Mint leaves as a garnish
>
>
> A favourite pud of mine which has been used in my family for well over 100
> years ... BUT we always serve hot custard with the really cold pudding....
> truly yummy!!

Really? How curious, as summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.

RobtE

"RobtE" > wrote in message
...
> Di Brookman wrote:
> > International Recipes OnLine wrote:
> >
> >>Summer Pudding
> >>
> >>submitted by butterflydog
> >>Heavy cream, sweetened and whipped for a topping/garnish
> >>Mint leaves as a garnish
> >
> >
> > A favourite pud of mine which has been used in my family for well over
100
> > years ... BUT we always serve hot custard with the really cold
pudding....
> > truly yummy!!
>
> Really? How curious, as summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.
>
> RobtE
>

WHAT?? You have to be kidding. You are, right?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

cybercat wrote:

>>
>>Really? How curious, as summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.
>>
>>RobtE
>>
>
>
> WHAT?? You have to be kidding. You are, right?
>

Nope.

RobtE

RobtE insisted:

>>> summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.
>>
>> WHAT?? You have to be kidding. You are, right?
>
> Nope.

from http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpuddings.html#summer:

"Summer pudding. A favourite English dessert which combines a mixture of
summer fruits with bread. Redcurrants...and raspberries are the best fruits
to use, but some varieties of gooseberry are suitable, and a small quantity
of blackcurrants and very few strawberries may be included. In autumn,
blackberries can be substituted. In other countries, corresponding kinds of
berry will do very well...In the 19th century this pudding seems to have
been known as 'hydropathic pudding' because it was served at health resorts
where pastry was forbidden. This name must have begun to seem unattractive
or inappropriate early in the 20th century, when the new name summer
pudding, which is now universally used, began to appear in print. Until
recently it was thought that the earliest recorded use was by Florence Perry
(1917) who, on the title page of her attractive book, styled herself The
Pudding Lady'...However, it has now been established that a missionary in
India, Miss E.S. Poynter (1904), had used the term much earlier, in her
book; and that soon afterwards Miss L. Sykes (c. 1912) used it as the title
of a recipe which was even closer than Miss Poynter's to those now in use."
---Oxford Companion to Food, Alan Davidson [Oxford University Press:Oxford]
1999 (p. 770)

You just make stuff up as you go along, don't you?

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> RobtE insisted:
>
> >>> summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.
> >>
> >> WHAT?? You have to be kidding. You are, right?
> >
> > Nope.
>
> from http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpuddings.html#summer:
>
> "Summer pudding. A favourite English dessert which combines a mixture of
> summer fruits with bread. Redcurrants...and raspberries are the best
fruits
> to use, but some varieties of gooseberry are suitable, and a small
quantity
> of blackcurrants and very few strawberries may be included. In autumn,
> blackberries can be substituted. In other countries, corresponding kinds
of
> berry will do very well...In the 19th century this pudding seems to have
> been known as 'hydropathic pudding' because it was served at health
resorts
> where pastry was forbidden. This name must have begun to seem unattractive
> or inappropriate early in the 20th century, when the new name summer
> pudding, which is now universally used, began to appear in print. Until
> recently it was thought that the earliest recorded use was by Florence
Perry
> (1917) who, on the title page of her attractive book, styled herself The
> Pudding Lady'...However, it has now been established that a missionary in
> India, Miss E.S. Poynter (1904), had used the term much earlier, in her
> book; and that soon afterwards Miss L. Sykes (c. 1912) used it as the
title
> of a recipe which was even closer than Miss Poynter's to those now in
use."
> ---Oxford Companion to Food, Alan Davidson [Oxford University
Press:Oxford]
> 1999 (p. 770)
>
>
> You just make stuff up as you go along, don't you?
>
> Bob
>
>

Yes, he does.

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> RobtE insisted:
>
>
>>>>summer pudding goes back only to the 1930s.
>>>
>>>WHAT?? You have to be kidding. You are, right?
>>
>>Nope.
>
>
> from http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpuddings.html#summer:
>
> "Summer pudding. A favourite English dessert which combines a mixture of
> summer fruits with bread. Redcurrants...and raspberries are the best fruits
> to use, but some varieties of gooseberry are suitable, and a small quantity
> of blackcurrants and very few strawberries may be included. In autumn,
> blackberries can be substituted. In other countries, corresponding kinds of
> berry will do very well...In the 19th century this pudding seems to have
> been known as 'hydropathic pudding' because it was served at health resorts
> where pastry was forbidden. This name must have begun to seem unattractive
> or inappropriate early in the 20th century, when the new name summer
> pudding, which is now universally used, began to appear in print. Until
> recently it was thought that the earliest recorded use was by Florence Perry
> (1917) who, on the title page of her attractive book, styled herself The
> Pudding Lady'...However, it has now been established that a missionary in
> India, Miss E.S. Poynter (1904), had used the term much earlier, in her
> book; and that soon afterwards Miss L. Sykes (c. 1912) used it as the title
> of a recipe which was even closer than Miss Poynter's to those now in use."
> ---Oxford Companion to Food, Alan Davidson [Oxford University Press:Oxford]
> 1999 (p. 770)
>
>
> You just make stuff up as you go along, don't you?
>
> Bob
>
>
From http://www.greatbritishkitchen.co.uk/eh_summer.htm

"There is a widely held belief that summer pudding was once called
'hydropathic pudding' and was served in spas, precursors to today's
health farms, where earlier generations went to be cleansed and reduced.
Another theory - that it was a summer substitute for the great suet
puddings of Victorian England - would fix its origins in the nineteenth
century. Many modern food writers adhere to this version of history,
hinting that the dessert has only recently been rediscovered.

Alas, it is not true. Summer pudding appears not to have existed before
the twentieth century. Although there were antecedents, they used stewed
fruit. Dr Johnson's pudding consists of rhubarb between layers of bread
in a pudding basin, while Wakefield pudding is any stewed fruit, though
most commonly rhubarb and gooseberries, inside a bread-lined bowl.
Before the twentieth century there is no evidence of any pudding of any
name that packs raw summer berries into a bread casing.

In Mary Novak's book English Puddings Sweet and Savoury first published
in 1981, she explains that "raw fruit was considered extremely
unhealthy...there are still many people of the older generation who
refuse raw fruit and will even stew strawberries and raspberries before
eating them". Hardly likely, then, that spas would be offering raw fruit
puddings to their clientele. Massey and Sons Comprehensive Pudding Book,
published in 1874 lists one thousand recipes, none resembling summer
pudding.

The earliest published summer pudding recipe appears to be in a book
unassumingly titled Sweets No. 6, published in 1902 and written by S.
Beaty-Pownall, departmental editor of Housewife and Cuisine at 'Queen
Newspaper'. However, into her plain china mould or basin lined with
bread 'as for apple charlotte', the esteemed departmental editor pours
hot stewed fruit. Although the fruit in today's summer pudding may be
warmed until the juices run, the whole point of the pudding is a filling
of unstewed berries in their juicy prime.

Somewhere along the line, we appear to have invented a romantic history
for this, one of our favourite puddings. The ruthless truth is exposed
by John Ayton in The Diner's Dictionary where he says "The name 'summer
pudding' was coined in the 1930s".

RobtE quoted:

> The earliest published summer pudding recipe appears to be in a book
> unassumingly titled Sweets No. 6, published in 1902 and written by S.
> Beaty-Pownall, departmental editor of Housewife and Cuisine at 'Queen
> Newspaper'. However, into her plain china mould or basin lined with bread
> 'as for apple charlotte', the esteemed departmental editor pours hot
> stewed fruit. Although the fruit in today's summer pudding may be warmed
> until the juices run, the whole point of the pudding is a filling of
> unstewed berries in their juicy prime.
>
> Somewhere along the line, we appear to have invented a romantic history
> for this, one of our favourite puddings. The ruthless truth is exposed by
> John Ayton in The Diner's Dictionary where he says "The name 'summer
> pudding' was coined in the 1930s".

In case you didn't notice, those two paragraphs contradict each other. The
first one cites a text containing the phrase "summer pudding" which was
printed in 1902. The second one claims that the NAME "summer pudding" was
coined in the 1930's. Clearly, if there's SOMETHING being called "summer
pudding" in 1902, then the name was coined at that time or earlier.

Regarding the jaundiced eye turned toward raw fruit during the late 1800's,
allow me to point out that the entirety of the passage you quoted is mere
hand-waving and conjecture. (Note the careful use of the phrases, "many
people of the older generation" and "hardly likely.")

But that's really beside the point: MAYBE the common meaning of the term
changed (and maybe it didn't), but by the reference YOU provided, the term
"summer pudding" has been around since 1902 or earlier. Regarding Di's
claim that the recipe (with raw fruit) has been in her family for "well over
100 years," I see no reason to doubt. I have no great emotional stake in the
history of summer pudding in any case. Arguments about recipe authenticity
and verifiable food history bore me.

Then again, there are those people who argue that the universe was created
five minutes ago, complete with false memories...

Bob

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> In case you didn't notice...
> allow me to point out...
> I have no great emotional stake in the
> Arguments about recipe authenticity
> and verifiable food history bore me.

Good heavens, what a patronising and pompous posting. One would almost
think you were an American. Tell me, however do you manage not to
disappear up your own arse?

We could trade quotations till the cows come home. Of course the absence
of proof to the contrary is not the same as proof, but for three years
I've been looking for a recipe for summer pudding as we now know it that
predates the 1930s - one with a verifiable provenance - so far with no
success. If you can find one then get back to me.

RobtE

RobtE wrote:

> Good heavens, what a patronising and pompous posting. One would almost
> think you were an American. Tell me, however do you manage not to
> disappear up your own arse?
>
> We could trade quotations till the cows come home. Of course the absence
> of proof to the contrary is not the same as proof, but for three years
> I've been looking for a recipe for summer pudding as we now know it that
> predates the 1930s - one with a verifiable provenance - so far with no
> success. If you can find one then get back to me.

I have no intention of conducting such a search. As I said, such things bore
me. I'm perfectly happy with summer pudding as it is currently made.

Several of the references I posted earlier give places that you can look if
you REALLY have been "looking for a recipe for summer pudding as we now know
it that predates the 1930s." At least one of them was at Oxford. Maybe you
can go there and finally satisfy your curiosity. Or maybe you can just go
there and **** yourself.

Bob