I asked my physician about this and here is his reply.

The only reference I have is one of the lectures at last year=3Fs (Nov
2005) Applying Functional Medicine in Clinical Practice symposium. The
lecturing physician spoke about molds being used to =3Fdigest=3F the
cellulose in the oranges (and grapefruits) so that they would have a
greater yield when pressed. He then said that nothing was done to remove
the molds or their byproducts or breakdown products, which could be a
source of trouble for people w mold allergies.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Peter A wrote:
> I asked my physician about this and here is his reply.
>
> The only reference I have is one of the lectures at last year=3Fs (Nov
> 2005) Applying Functional Medicine in Clinical Practice symposium. The
> lecturing physician spoke about molds being used to =3Fdigest=3F the
> cellulose in the oranges (and grapefruits) so that they would have a
> greater yield when pressed. He then said that nothing was done to remove
> the molds or their byproducts or breakdown products, which could be a
> source of trouble for people w mold allergies.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
> Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Seems more likely to me that they would add cellulase enzyme which may
be derived from molds - most specifically recombinant cellulase grown
in yeast. The enzyme would be purified but *some* other mold proteins
would be present, probably.

I can't see them actually incubating oranges with mold to do the job -
way too time consuming.

-L.

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
>I asked my physician about this and here is his reply.
>
> The only reference I have is one of the lectures at last year=3Fs (Nov
> 2005) Applying Functional Medicine in Clinical Practice symposium. The
> lecturing physician spoke about molds being used to =3Fdigest=3F the
> cellulose in the oranges (and grapefruits) so that they would have a
> greater yield when pressed. He then said that nothing was done to remove
> the molds or their byproducts or breakdown products, which could be a
> source of trouble for people w mold allergies.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
> Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm


a Tropicana Product , REF.# 025705127A

Douglas:

The process for making Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice (Not From
Concentrate) does not involve growing mold on oranges. Here is information
on the making of orange juice we hope you will find helpful.

Trailer trucks arrive from the groves and unload freshly picked fruit onto a
bucket elevator. The fruit is delivered by conveyor, then washed and
brushed clean. The fruit passes through the first inspection area where any
fruit not meeting Tropicana's high standards is discarded. The United
States Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspector also checks each load of
fruit to ensure that it meets the strict standards set by the Florida
Department of Citrus. The USDA helps ensure quality products by checking
various stages of processing and packaging. The fruit is stored temporarily
in one of many fruit bins until it is ready to be processed. Fruit goes
from storage to a second washing and brushing area and to a second visual
inspection.

The fruit is separated by size and sent to the appropriate extractor which
halves and juices the fruit. Finishing machines strain the juice through
screens, separating the seeds and pulp from the juice. Tropicana Pure
Premium Orange Juice is then pasteurized and sent to the packaging area
where it is put into cartons and plastic containers, packed into shipping
cartons and stored in our low temperature warehouses or loaded onto a
refrigerated railcar or truck for immediate delivery.

Theresa
Tropicana Consumer Response

In article .com>,
says...
> Seems more likely to me that they would add cellulase enzyme which may
> be derived from molds - most specifically recombinant cellulase grown
> in yeast. The enzyme would be purified but *some* other mold proteins
> would be present, probably.
>
> I can't see them actually incubating oranges with mold to do the job -
> way too time consuming.
>
>

Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article .com>,
> says...
>> Seems more likely to me that they would add cellulase enzyme which may
>> be derived from molds - most specifically recombinant cellulase grown
>> in yeast. The enzyme would be purified but *some* other mold proteins
>> would be present, probably.
>>
>> I can't see them actually incubating oranges with mold to do the job -
>> way too time consuming.
>>
>>
>
> Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
>
> --
> Peter Aitken


Peter, I would like to send you a lifetime supply of heavy duty aluminum
foil.

In article >,
says...
> > Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Aitken
>
>
> Peter, I would like to send you a lifetime supply of heavy duty aluminum
> foil.
>
>

Try as I might, I cannot figure this one out. Explain please!

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> > Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't
>> > see.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peter Aitken
>>
>>
>> Peter, I would like to send you a lifetime supply of heavy duty aluminum
>> foil.
>>
>>
>
> Try as I might, I cannot figure this one out. Explain please!
> Peter Aitken

You seem convinced that there's a mold conspiracy rampant in the juice
industry. Perhaps I extrapolated too much, but I wonder if you walk around
with a foil hat on your head, and look for black helicopters hovering near
your home.

In article >,
says...
> > Try as I might, I cannot figure this one out. Explain please!
> > Peter Aitken
>
> You seem convinced that there's a mold conspiracy rampant in the juice
> industry. Perhaps I extrapolated too much, but I wonder if you walk around
> with a foil hat on your head, and look for black helicopters hovering near
> your home.
>
>

C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
themselves.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

On Wed 03 May 2006 02:30:43p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter A?

> In article >,
> says...
>> > Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Peter Aitken
>>
>>
>> Peter, I would like to send you a lifetime supply of heavy duty aluminum
>> foil.
>>
>>
>
> Try as I might, I cannot figure this one out. Explain please!
>

Perhaps to make a hat?

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> > Try as I might, I cannot figure this one out. Explain please!
>> > Peter Aitken
>>
>> You seem convinced that there's a mold conspiracy rampant in the juice
>> industry. Perhaps I extrapolated too much, but I wonder if you walk
>> around
>> with a foil hat on your head, and look for black helicopters hovering
>> near
>> your home.
>>
>>
>
> C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
> physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
> of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
> themselves.
> Peter Aitken


sigh......Peter.....did it really seem possible? We're not talking about
blue cheese. It's orange juice!

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Peter A" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I asked my physician about this and here is his reply.
> >
> > The only reference I have is one of the lectures at last year=3Fs (Nov
> > 2005) Applying Functional Medicine in Clinical Practice symposium. The
> > lecturing physician spoke about molds being used to =3Fdigest=3F the
> > cellulose in the oranges (and grapefruits) so that they would have a
> > greater yield when pressed. He then said that nothing was done to remove
> > the molds or their byproducts or breakdown products, which could be a
> > source of trouble for people w mold allergies.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Aitken
> > Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm
>
>
> a Tropicana Product , REF.# 025705127A
>
> Douglas:
>
> The process for making Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice (Not From
> Concentrate) does not involve growing mold on oranges. Here is information
> on the making of orange juice we hope you will find helpful.
>
> Trailer trucks arrive from the groves and unload freshly picked fruit onto
a
> bucket elevator. The fruit is delivered by conveyor, then washed and
> brushed clean. The fruit passes through the first inspection area where
any
> fruit not meeting Tropicana's high standards is discarded. The United
> States Department of Agriculture (USDA) inspector also checks each load of
> fruit to ensure that it meets the strict standards set by the Florida
> Department of Citrus. The USDA helps ensure quality products by checking
> various stages of processing and packaging. The fruit is stored
temporarily
> in one of many fruit bins until it is ready to be processed. Fruit goes
> from storage to a second washing and brushing area and to a second visual
> inspection.
>
> The fruit is separated by size and sent to the appropriate extractor which
> halves and juices the fruit. Finishing machines strain the juice through
> screens, separating the seeds and pulp from the juice. Tropicana Pure
> Premium Orange Juice is then pasteurized and sent to the packaging area
> where it is put into cartons and plastic containers, packed into shipping
> cartons and stored in our low temperature warehouses or loaded onto a
> refrigerated railcar or truck for immediate delivery.
>
> Theresa
> Tropicana Consumer Response

but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton walls when
the inspectors aren't looking?

Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical shapes and
backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....

Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the same
first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....

If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?



>
>

"hob" > wrote in message
news

> but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton walls
> when
> the inspectors aren't looking?
>
> Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical shapes
> and
> backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....
>
> Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the same
> first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....
>
> If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?


I see you're finished with your "price of sugar" hallucinations.

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
> "hob" > wrote in message
> news >
>
> > but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton walls
> > when
> > the inspectors aren't looking?
> >
> > Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical shapes
> > and
> > backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....
> >
> > Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the same
> > first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....
> >
> > If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?
>
>
> I see you're finished with your "price of sugar" hallucinations.
>

Oh, sorry - I thought you had checked the facts and finally given up on your
out-of-date beliefs.

And are now promoting aluminum foil.........

the consumptiomn of which is expected to double in the next ten years.


>

In article >,
says...
> > C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
> > physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
> > of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
> > themselves.
> > Peter Aitken
>
>
> sigh......Peter.....did it really seem possible? We're not talking about
> blue cheese. It's orange juice!
>
>
>

Corporations will do anything to increase their profits, so yes, it
seemed very possible.

Perhaps you can explain your expertise in this matter. Degrees,
training, and so on?

I didn't think so.



--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"hob" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "hob" > wrote in message
>> news >>
>>
>> > but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton walls
>> > when
>> > the inspectors aren't looking?
>> >
>> > Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical
>> > shapes
>> > and
>> > backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....
>> >
>> > Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the
>> > same
>> > first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....
>> >
>> > If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?
>>
>>
>> I see you're finished with your "price of sugar" hallucinations.
>>
>
> Oh, sorry - I thought you had checked the facts and finally given up on
> your
> out-of-date beliefs.
>
> And are now promoting aluminum foil.........
>
> the consumptiomn of which is expected to double in the next ten years.


It's interesting that in your first message about sugar prices, you gave the
impression of being an 18 year old who never went shopping before, and at
the end, you suddenly pretend to have access to a wholesaler's book. Explain
the discrepancy.

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> > C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
>> > physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
>> > of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
>> > themselves.
>> > Peter Aitken
>>
>>
>> sigh......Peter.....did it really seem possible? We're not talking about
>> blue cheese. It's orange juice!
>>
>>
>>
>
> Corporations will do anything to increase their profits, so yes, it
> seemed very possible.
>
> Perhaps you can explain your expertise in this matter. Degrees,
> training, and so on?
>
> I didn't think so.


I'll make you a deal. I'll tell you why I think I'm right. But first, I need
to know how a degree in medicine makes your doctor an authority on food
science, and how this 100% vague paragraph of his, POSTED BY YOU, is in any
way authoritative:

"The only reference I have is one of the lectures at last year=3Fs (Nov
2005) Applying Functional Medicine in Clinical Practice symposium. The
lecturing physician spoke about molds being used to =3Fdigest=3F the
cellulose in the oranges (and grapefruits) so that they would have a
greater yield when pressed. He then said that nothing was done to remove
the molds or their byproducts or breakdown products, which could be a
source of trouble for people w mold allergies."

As he said, "the only reference". He has nothing to back this up. But, via a
web search, you can find myriads of information from various agricultural
college sources which clearly state that mold in fruit juices is a health
hazard.

Peter A wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> > Seems more likely to me that they would add cellulase enzyme which may
> > be derived from molds - most specifically recombinant cellulase grown
> > in yeast. The enzyme would be purified but *some* other mold proteins
> > would be present, probably.
> >
> > I can't see them actually incubating oranges with mold to do the job -
> > way too time consuming.
> >
> >
>
> Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.

Actually I am an expert. I spent 15 years as a molecular biologist
genetically engineering things like yeast to make enzymes like
cellulase.

-L.

Peter A wrote:
>
> > You seem convinced that there's a mold conspiracy rampant in the juice
> > industry. Perhaps I extrapolated too much, but I wonder if you walk around
> > with a foil hat on your head, and look for black helicopters hovering near
> > your home.
>
> C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
> physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
> of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
> themselves.

When someone runs out of facts, they often resort
to ridicule.

-L. wrote:

> Peter A wrote:
>
>>In article .com>,
says...
>>
>>>Seems more likely to me that they would add cellulase enzyme which may
>>>be derived from molds - most specifically recombinant cellulase grown
>>>in yeast. The enzyme would be purified but *some* other mold proteins
>>>would be present, probably.
>>>
>>>I can't see them actually incubating oranges with mold to do the job -
>>>way too time consuming.
>>>
>>
>>Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
>
> Actually I am an expert. I spent 15 years as a molecular biologist
> genetically engineering things like yeast to make enzymes like
> cellulase.

BOING. Good answer

--
Reg

Peter A wrote:
> Corporations will do anything to increase their profits, so yes, it
> seemed very possible.

I did a quick search of the NCBI and Entrez PubMed database (where all
scientific papers are registered) for fungi and fruit juices and only
came up with one citation mentioning fungi and fruit jucie. It's
from 1960:

An acid-tolerant non-sporulating yeast from passion fruit juice

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_DocSum

One group is looking for cold-loving pectinolytic organisms to aid in
juice production:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

In fact, out of the 35 citations which came up in the search the vast
majority were papers which discussed methods to *detect spoilage
organisms*, most of which were bacteria.

The citation bleow states the following:
"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration Juice Hazard Analysis and
Critical Control Point Regulation requires fruit juice processors to
include control measures that produce a 5-log reduction of the
pertinent microorganism of public health significance in the juice."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...=pubmed_docsum

So I suspect you are making much to do about nothing. I think you
should take up the dude's offer of the aluminum foil...

-L.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Peter A wrote:
>>
>> > You seem convinced that there's a mold conspiracy rampant in the juice
>> > industry. Perhaps I extrapolated too much, but I wonder if you walk
>> > around
>> > with a foil hat on your head, and look for black helicopters hovering
>> > near
>> > your home.
>>
>> C'mon, Doug, pay attention. All I did was to repeat something that my
>> physician told me. True? I don't know, but given the reasonable source
>> of the info I thought I'd pass it along and let others look into it
>> themselves.
>
> When someone runs out of facts, they often resort
> to ridicule.

There *are* no facts, professor.

In article >,
says...
> >>Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
> >
> > Actually I am an expert. I spent 15 years as a molecular biologist
> > genetically engineering things like yeast to make enzymes like
> > cellulase.
>
> BOING. Good answer
>
>

Except that he knows nothing about how OJ is produced, just how he
thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
hand.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> >>Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't
>> >>see.
>> >
>> > Actually I am an expert. I spent 15 years as a molecular biologist
>> > genetically engineering things like yeast to make enzymes like
>> > cellulase.
>>
>> BOING. Good answer
>>
>>
>
> Except that he knows nothing about how OJ is produced, just how he
> thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
> hand.
> Peter Aitken


You're also describing your doctor, and you, Peter. What your doctor's
theory needs is a dose of common sense.

In article >,
says...
> > Except that he knows nothing about how OJ is produced, just how he
> > thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
> > hand.
> > Peter Aitken
>
>
> You're also describing your doctor, and you, Peter. What your doctor's
> theory needs is a dose of common sense.
>

Absolutely not. Common sense is so often wrong that it cannot be used as
a criterion in situations like this one. It's also an argument that is
used all too often when someone does not have any evidence for their
position.

Remember, I am not claiming that this OJ/mold story is true - I really
do not know (and none of you do either). Given that none of us has been
able to find any corroborating information I am becoming quite
skeptical. I am certainly not naive enough to treat everything a doctor
says as gospel!


--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> > Except that he knows nothing about how OJ is produced, just how he
>> > thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
>> > hand.
>> > Peter Aitken
>>
>>
>> You're also describing your doctor, and you, Peter. What your doctor's
>> theory needs is a dose of common sense.
>>
>
> Absolutely not. Common sense is so often wrong that it cannot be used as
> a criterion in situations like this one. It's also an argument that is
> used all too often when someone does not have any evidence for their
> position.
>
> Remember, I am not claiming that this OJ/mold story is true - I really
> do not know (and none of you do either). Given that none of us has been
> able to find any corroborating information I am becoming quite
> skeptical. I am certainly not naive enough to treat everything a doctor
> says as gospel!
> Peter Aitken

OK. Let's back up and review. There are two separate questions below. Please
answer them separately.

1) Earlier, I posted a link to an ag university site which described
precautions needed to PREVENT the introduction of mold in fruit juices.
Refresh my memory: Did you claim that the site and others like it were
suspect, or was that Mark Thorson who said that?

2) Above, you mentioned corroborating information. Can you describe the TYPE
of source where YOU SPECIFICALLY would find such information, a source you
would trust?

Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> a Tropicana Product , REF.# 025705127A
>
> Douglas:
>
> The process for making Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice (Not From

Theresa and Peter A., I don't care what they do to Tropicana
not-from-concentrate fresh orange juice, I love the stuff. I just wish
they could make it shelf stable so I didn't have to seek out a source
with bottles of it in the refrigerator case.

N.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>
>> a Tropicana Product , REF.# 025705127A
>>
>> Douglas:
>>
>> The process for making Tropicana Pure Premium Orange Juice (Not From
>
> Theresa and Peter A., I don't care what they do to Tropicana
> not-from-concentrate fresh orange juice, I love the stuff. I just wish
> they could make it shelf stable so I didn't have to seek out a source
> with bottles of it in the refrigerator case.
>
> N.
>

What do you mean "shelf stable"? And, doesn't your store stock the 64 oz
cartons, refrigerated? On that product, freshness dating is about 50 days
from when it's picked up at the plant.

In article >,
says...
> OK. Let's back up and review. There are two separate questions below. Please
> answer them separately.
>
> 1) Earlier, I posted a link to an ag university site which described
> precautions needed to PREVENT the introduction of mold in fruit juices.
> Refresh my memory: Did you claim that the site and others like it were
> suspect, or was that Mark Thorson who said that?

It was not me.

>
> 2) Above, you mentioned corroborating information. Can you describe the TYPE
> of source where YOU SPECIFICALLY would find such information, a source you
> would trust?
>

I would look on the FDA site as well as food science related sites from
reliable sources (universities for example). I would also look on sites
that deal with allergies, specifically mold allergies. I would want
these sites to be from a reasonable source such as a university, a
medical organization, and so on - not just any site with no bona fides.

I have in fact done all these things and can find no reference to mold
being used in citrus juice production or to citrus juice being a danger
for people with mold allergies. This is why I am very doubtful about my
physician's claim.

You seem to think that I am arguing about this. Please go back and read
my posts. I never claimed that this mold/OJ story was true, I simply
reported what I had been told by a creditable source.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"Peter A" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> says...
>> OK. Let's back up and review. There are two separate questions below.
>> Please
>> answer them separately.
>>
>> 1) Earlier, I posted a link to an ag university site which described
>> precautions needed to PREVENT the introduction of mold in fruit juices.
>> Refresh my memory: Did you claim that the site and others like it were
>> suspect, or was that Mark Thorson who said that?
>
> It was not me.


OK. We'll have to wait for Mark to stumble along and tell us that ag
universities are nothing but shills for food companies.



>> 2) Above, you mentioned corroborating information. Can you describe the
>> TYPE
>> of source where YOU SPECIFICALLY would find such information, a source
>> you
>> would trust?
>>
>
> I would look on the FDA site as well as food science related sites from
> reliable sources (universities for example). I would also look on sites
> that deal with allergies, specifically mold allergies. I would want
> these sites to be from a reasonable source such as a university, a
> medical organization, and so on - not just any site with no bona fides.
>
> I have in fact done all these things and can find no reference to mold
> being used in citrus juice production or to citrus juice being a danger
> for people with mold allergies. This is why I am very doubtful about my
> physician's claim.
>
> You seem to think that I am arguing about this. Please go back and read
> my posts. I never claimed that this mold/OJ story was true, I simply
> reported what I had been told by a creditable source.


Sorry about the misunderstanding, then. The other thread has become
hopelessly tangled.

Peter A wrote:
>
> Except that he

She

>knows nothing about how OJ is produced,

I know quite a bit about how OJ is produced.

>just how he
> thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
> hand.

More importantly, I have extensive knowledge about how fungi (including
molds) are grown both in the laboratory and in industrial production.
It's simply not feasible to grow mold on oranges or orange extracts and
still produce a product that is fresh and profitable. Any delay to
packaging costs time, time is money, and fungi are nortoriously
slow-growing organisms. Oranges also carry numerous fungi naturally,
and it would be virtually impossible to purely culture whole oranges or
even semi-strained extract; they simply are a poor media. Furthermore,
as I stated before, there is absolutely no indication in the literature
that anyone, anywhere, has developed any strain of fungus for inhancing
juice production. If you had any skill whatsoever in researching any
subject you could have discovered this yourself.

Instead you insist on yakking on and on about a subject you clearly
know nothing about.

Carry on, fool.

-L.

In article .com>,
says...
> > Remember, I am not claiming that this OJ/mold story is true - I really
> > do not know (and none of you do either). Given that none of us has been
> > able to find any corroborating information I am becoming quite
> > skeptical. I am certainly not naive enough to treat everything a doctor
> > says as gospel!
>
> I posted a survey of the literature which you completely ignored.
> There is abslutely no published research indicating that anyone,
> anywhere is adding mold to OJ for any purpose whatsoever.
>
>

Did you bother to read my message before replying? You don't seem to
have the slightest clue what this thread is about. You are more
interested in tooting your own horn and having an argument when no one
is arguing with you.

I guess they don't teach reading comprehension any more.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Peter A wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
>
>>>>Another expert chimes in. I bet there are a lot of things you can't see.
>>>
>>>Actually I am an expert. I spent 15 years as a molecular biologist
>>>genetically engineering things like yeast to make enzymes like
>>>cellulase.
>>
>>BOING. Good answer
>>
>>
>
>
> Except that he knows nothing about how OJ is produced, just how he
> thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
> hand.
>

How the hell do you know any of that?

Face it. You went out on a limb on this one, and the limb
broke. You're liable to end up with the "Food Grade Propane"
award on your mantelpiece if you keep this up.

--
Reg

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
> "hob" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "hob" > wrote in message
> >> news > >>
> >>
> >> > but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton
walls
> >> > when
> >> > the inspectors aren't looking?
> >> >
> >> > Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical
> >> > shapes
> >> > and
> >> > backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....
> >> >
> >> > Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the
> >> > same
> >> > first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....
> >> >
> >> > If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?
> >>
> >>
> >> I see you're finished with your "price of sugar" hallucinations.
> >>
> >
> > Oh, sorry - I thought you had checked the facts and finally given up on
> > your
> > out-of-date beliefs.
> >
> > And are now promoting aluminum foil.........
> >
> > the consumptiomn of which is expected to double in the next ten years.
>
>
> It's interesting that in your first message about sugar prices, you gave
the
> impression of being an 18 year old who never went shopping before, and at
> the end, you suddenly pretend to have access to a wholesaler's book.
Explain
> the discrepancy.
>

If you look, the answer to your question about impressions leading to a
"discrepeancy" is right in front of you.

In your own words, and I quote:

"you gave the impression..."

Gave the impression to whom? Impressions that you have derived are yours.

It was you who assigned values to the words, it was you who assumed
conditions not valid (perhaps because it was easier if your assumed
conditions to fit your view of "facts"), and it is you that now have a
discrepancy. Since YOU now have a discrepancy in YOUR impressions, it has to
be from YOUR errors of interpretation.

---- If your impressions have led to a discrepancy, look to your impressions
to resolve your discrepancy.

In other words, logic clearly says the error of interpretation that led
to your discrepancy is yours and yours alone since facts have not changed,
nor your impressions but yet you have a discrepancy.

And the rest of us then properly ask - if you erred by assuming facts and
conditions there, then what else you have assumed that is also in error?


(BTW - No "pretend", as you need to assume: I have more than one
wholesaler's book. )


And the thread is about orange juice.

You lost to the USDA on sugar. Let it go.

>

In article .com>,
says...
> More importantly, I have extensive knowledge about how fungi (including
> molds) are grown both in the laboratory and in industrial production.
> It's simply not feasible to grow mold on oranges or orange extracts and
> still produce a product that is fresh and profitable. Any delay to
> packaging costs time, time is money, and fungi are nortoriously
> slow-growing organisms. Oranges also carry numerous fungi naturally,
> and it would be virtually impossible to purely culture whole oranges or
> even semi-strained extract; they simply are a poor media. Furthermore,
> as I stated before, there is absolutely no indication in the literature
> that anyone, anywhere, has developed any strain of fungus for inhancing
> juice production. If you had any skill whatsoever in researching any
> subject you could have discovered this yourself.
>
> Instead you insist on yakking on and on about a subject you clearly
> know nothing about.
>
>

Are you really so abysmally stupid that you do not realize that I never
made any claims about this OJ/mold business? All I did was repeat what I
had been told by my doctor. You are exerting all this energy to prove
that something I never said is wrong. Why? Does it make you feel
important and competent?

You are a perfect example of someone with lots of technical knowledge
but no intelligence.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths pages at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

"-L." > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Peter A wrote:
>>
>> Except that he
>
> She
>
>>knows nothing about how OJ is produced,
>
> I know quite a bit about how OJ is produced.
>
>>just how he
>> thinks it might be produced. Completely irrelevant to the question at
>> hand.
>
> More importantly, I have extensive knowledge about how fungi (including
> molds) are grown both in the laboratory and in industrial production.
> It's simply not feasible to grow mold on oranges or orange extracts and
> still produce a product that is fresh and profitable. Any delay to
> packaging costs time, time is money, and fungi are nortoriously
> slow-growing organisms. Oranges also carry numerous fungi naturally,
> and it would be virtually impossible to purely culture whole oranges or
> even semi-strained extract; they simply are a poor media. Furthermore,
> as I stated before, there is absolutely no indication in the literature
> that anyone, anywhere, has developed any strain of fungus for inhancing
> juice production. If you had any skill whatsoever in researching any
> subject you could have discovered this yourself.
>
> Instead you insist on yakking on and on about a subject you clearly
> know nothing about.
>
> Carry on, fool.
>
> -L.
>

Are fungi less likely to grow in acidic environments?

"hob" > wrote in message
news
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "hob" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> "hob" > wrote in message
>> >> news >> >>
>> >>
>> >> > but do they inject it with mold by beaming it through the carton
> walls
>> >> > when
>> >> > the inspectors aren't looking?
>> >> >
>> >> > Remember, only HEAVY DUTY aluminum foil put into in hemispherical
>> >> > shapes
>> >> > and
>> >> > backed by duct tape can stop those beams.....
>> >> >
>> >> > Besides, check for yourself - both T_ropicana and T_heresa have the
>> >> > same
>> >> > first intial. Coincidence? That's what THEY want you to think.....
>> >> >
>> >> > If that's not true, what else are they not telling you?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I see you're finished with your "price of sugar" hallucinations.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Oh, sorry - I thought you had checked the facts and finally given up on
>> > your
>> > out-of-date beliefs.
>> >
>> > And are now promoting aluminum foil.........
>> >
>> > the consumptiomn of which is expected to double in the next ten years.
>>
>>
>> It's interesting that in your first message about sugar prices, you gave
> the
>> impression of being an 18 year old who never went shopping before, and at
>> the end, you suddenly pretend to have access to a wholesaler's book.
> Explain
>> the discrepancy.
>>
>
> If you look, the answer to your question about impressions leading to a
> "discrepeancy" is right in front of you.
>
> In your own words, and I quote:
>
> "you gave the impression..."
>
> Gave the impression to whom? Impressions that you have derived are yours.
>
> It was you who assigned values to the words, it was you who assumed
> conditions not valid (perhaps because it was easier if your assumed
> conditions to fit your view of "facts"), and it is you that now have a
> discrepancy. Since YOU now have a discrepancy in YOUR impressions, it has
> to
> be from YOUR errors of interpretation.
>
> ---- If your impressions have led to a discrepancy, look to your
> impressions
> to resolve your discrepancy.
>
> In other words, logic clearly says the error of interpretation that led
> to your discrepancy is yours and yours alone since facts have not changed,
> nor your impressions but yet you have a discrepancy.
>
> And the rest of us then properly ask - if you erred by assuming facts
> and
> conditions there, then what else you have assumed that is also in error?
>
>
> (BTW - No "pretend", as you need to assume: I have more than one
> wholesaler's book. )
>
>
> And the thread is about orange juice.
>
> You lost to the USDA on sugar. Let it go.

Bullshit. In your initial message, you said it "looked like the price of
sugar" had jumped 100%. I work for a wholesaler. LIST PRICE from the
manufacturers is currently around $1.78, and my competitors are in that same
neighborhood, give or take a dime. It's been that way since last summer. You
quoted a loss leader price and used that as your starting point for the
price increase. Or, the wholesale book you're talking about comes from a
small cash & carry operation that's taking it up the ass from the
manufacturers.

writes:

>Are you really so abysmally stupid that you do not realize that I never
>made any claims about this OJ/mold business? All I did was repeat what I
>had been told by my doctor.

SOMEone's bored today!

Peter A wrote:

>
> You are a perfect example of someone with lots of technical knowledge
> but no intelligence.
>
Why does this make me think of... pot, kettle....?

--
Cheers
Chatty Cathy

Peter A wrote:
> Are you really so abysmally stupid that you do not realize that I never
> made any claims about this OJ/mold business?

Yet you belittle everyone who says anything against "mold" being
associated with OJ...

> All I did was repeat what I
> had been told by my doctor. You are exerting all this energy to prove
> that something I never said is wrong. Why?

I am not "proving" anything - other than the fact that you are making
much ado about nothing. I am merely providing facts.

>Does it make you feel
> important and competent?

I am important and competent - I don't need to "feel" anything.

>
> You are a perfect example of someone with lots of technical knowledge
> but no intelligence.

There you go again. You're a perfect example of Little Dick Syndrome.

-L.

Peter A wrote:
> In article .com>,
> says...
> > > Remember, I am not claiming that this OJ/mold story is true - I really
> > > do not know (and none of you do either). Given that none of us has been
> > > able to find any corroborating information I am becoming quite
> > > skeptical. I am certainly not naive enough to treat everything a doctor
> > > says as gospel!
> >
> > I posted a survey of the literature which you completely ignored.
> > There is abslutely no published research indicating that anyone,
> > anywhere is adding mold to OJ for any purpose whatsoever.
> >
> >
>
> Did you bother to read my message before replying? You don't seem to
> have the slightest clue what this thread is about.
>You are more
> interested in tooting your own horn and having an argument when no one
> is arguing with you.
>
> I guess they don't teach reading comprehension any more.

You stated above, "I really do not know (and none of you do either)".

Um, yes, Peter, dear. We do. I posted the proof. You're just too
wound up in your own righteousness to accept it.

-L.